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[Alligatorjandro]

If I cosplay as Merry Poppins with lipstick and fake breasts, am I being offensive?

I must know GAF!

Do you also paint your skin white?

 

[Jest Chillin]

It's to lampoon the racial stereotypes that are classically associated with the character he represented.

He could have easily been a walking trope without the makeup.

Which is really the point, isn't it? There is more to blackface than just putting on makeup.

The stereotypes weren't the target for his character. They were an added element to the degree of his ignorance.

Then why dress up as anyone ever? I mean it's all should be offensive not just thing associated with black characters. There cloths aren't a defining characteristic, neither is the hair, nor how they look.

There is nothing in what she did that says the she think that being black was the defining human characteristic. She changed her style and her clothes along with darkening her skin. She is trying to look physically more like the character. It is a physical characteristic.

There's a reason why plain costumes like.. let's say dressing up as Bill Gates.. don't tend to get noticed unless the person wearing the costume naturally looks like the character or person they're portraying. If you absolutely need to paint your skin black to portray someone, it's a bad idea for a costume. Wade as JT was an AWFUL idea and similarly if a white person were to dress up as JT, it would still be a bad idea unless they already resembled him. Why? Because he's nondescript.

Clothing, hairstyles, accessories, and mannerisms are defining characteristics. These are all things that a person or character has active control over. Skin color isn't.

Blog of (mostly) good execution of costumes that didn't need painted skin to be recognizable.

 

[Maxim726X]

Do you also paint your skin white?

Does it really make that much of a difference?

It's an attribute of her. Like any other physical attribute.

The stereotypes weren't the target for his character. They were an added element to the degree of his ignorance.

Of course they were. Whether or not he was acutely aware that he was basically a walking stereotype, he still was. I honestly don't understand the point.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Crap, gotta go as something else now.

I already had a matching umbrella and everything.

Do you also paint your skin white?

I'm unfortunately white, otherwise I probably would have.

 

[GhettoGamer]

I'm gonna call BS here. We all know if she'd dressed up as that character without using makeup there would be people out there accusing her of trying to "whitewash" the character in effect.

Insisting that her costume was racist because she dressed up as black character is just as ignorant as you're accusing me of being. It's ignorant of her intent and it's ignorant of context.

Im gonna call BS on this, no onr would claim she trying to whitewash a character espically at a Halloween event. She could have pulled off the character with out painting her skin. Like I said just plain ignorance.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Crap, gotta go as something else now.

I already had a matching umbrella and everything.



I'm unfortunately white, otherwise I probably would have.

no you need to paint you skin more white

 

[Cetra]

Im gonna call BS on this, no onr would claim she trying to whitewash a character espically at a Halloween event. She could have pulled off the character with out painting her skin. Like I said just plain ignorance.

If you mean ignorant of the fact that there are armies of over-sensitive people who'd chose to take issue with a harmless Halloween costume, sure.

 

[mantidor]

Not racist but shows a lack of sensitivity and piss poor judgement.

If anything it shows ignorance, and while blackface is something that shouldn't be forgotten I disagree it should be such a huge tabu to the point people can't use black make up under any circumstance.

Also, the problem of her costume is that it's bad, without all the context I would have honestly thought she was mocking one of the Jersey Shore guys.

 

[CrazyDude]

The stereotypes weren't the target for his character. They were an added element to the degree of his ignorance.



There's a reason why plain costumes like.. let's say dressing up as Bill Gates.. don't tend to get noticed unless the person wearing the costume naturally looks like the character or person they're portraying. If you absolutely need to paint your skin black to portray someone, it's a bad idea for a costume. Wade as JT was an AWFUL idea and similarly if a white person were to dress up as JT, it would still be a bad idea unless they already resembled him. Why? Because he's nondescript.

Clothing, hairstyles, accessories, and mannerisms are defining characteristics. These are all things that a person or character has active control over. Skin color isn't.

Blog of (mostly) good execution of costumes that didn't need painted skin to be recognizable.

But it is part of their physical appearance whether you like it or not and the whole purpose of dressing up is to look as closely as possible to the person you are trying to imitate how they look.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Of course they were. Whether or not he was acutely aware that he was basically a walking stereotype, he still was. I honestly don't understand the point.

I've already explained what the purpose of the character was and it wasn't to portray stereotypes. The Alpa Chino (Brandon Jackson) character was there to portray stereotypes and that was the stereotypes of a Rapper/Actor.

But it is part of their physical appearance whether you like it or not and the whole purpose of dressing up is to look as closely as possible to the person you are trying to imitate.

The purpose of dressing up is to appear as someone else. Accuracy really doesn't matter, especially for Halloween.

If you want to dress as a ghost you can go like this:

Or like this:

 

[MIMIC]

Just wanted to pop back in and say there was a great (funny) discussion about this on CNN a few minutes ago.

 

[Black-Wind]

I don't personally get why so many white people feel the need to paint their skin to "look like" someone who is chocolate.

I have dressed up as Mario and Eminem ... never felt the need to paint my skin cause there's more elements to a person/ character then what color they are.

 

[Enzom21]

To be fair, Obama being black is a huge characteristic to who he is because he is the first black president. Clinton wasn't the first white anything. Well, maybe the first white guy to get caught getting a bj in his office.

Also, I can't speak for anyone else, but if I had to describe Clinton physically to someone who had no idea who he was or the history of race of the elected Presidents of America I would probably still mention him being white as a key characteristic of his appearance.

And it's still his most defining characteristic to a lot of people. Doesn't matter what he has done in office or who he is as a person he is black first.

Then why dress up as anyone ever? I mean it's all should be offensive not just thing associated with black characters. There cloths aren't a defining characteristic, neither is the hair, nor how they look.

There is nothing in what she did that says the she think that being black was the defining human characteristic. She changed her style and her clothes along with darkening her skin. She is trying to look physically more like the character. It is a physical characteristic.

So if you're white and you want to go dressed as Abraham Lincoln but Lincoln is a few shades lighter than you would you lighten you skin to match? After all, him being white is one of his most defining characteristics is it not?

People in most cases aren't the costumes they wear either. Klansman are definitely racist. They wouldn't wear the uniform of a Klansman if they weren't.

If I went as Fat Albert (And I could pull it off, trust me... I have the girth) and used make up to make my skin tone match Fat Albert's I'd be doing it purely for that purpose. I wouldn't be driven by racism in that effort, I'd be driven by trying to look like the character I was trying to dress up as for Halloween.

Does that make me racist? Does that make the act racist? Hell no.

So you ignored and completely missed the point of my post... where did I say anything about racism?

A better example would be someone appropriately using the word "niggardly" in a sentence. There's nothing inherently racist about that compared to any other word, offense would come from reminding people of racist usage by how it sounds rather than its actual meaning.

Read what I was responding to genius.

 

[CrazyDude]

So if you're white and you want to go dressed as Abraham Lincoln but Lincoln is a few shades lighter than you would you lighten you skin to match? After all, him being white is one of his most defining characteristics is it not?

Yes I would lighten my skin. Why not? When you want to dress up as another person, you trying to imitate their looks. It's the whole point to dressing up in the first place.

 

[blame space]

makeup should be illegal.

 

[Van Owen]

It's a lot easier to darken light skin than it is to lighten dark skin.

 

[Slayven]

This one is great.

 

[fanboi]

So if you're white and you want to go dressed as Abraham Lincoln but Lincoln is a few shades lighter than you would you lighten you skin to match? After all, him being white is one of his most defining characteristics is it not?

I wouldn't since I am white.

Same as if I tried to portray a black person I wouldn't spend hours upon hours to try getting the perfect shade of brown, but I would paint my skin brown since I am white and I expect a brown person to be white if representing a characheter that is white.

 

[Kettch]

Read what I was responding to genius.

Sorry, I was responding to the general topic and that conversation looked like a good place to state things, your post was simply the last line of it.

 

[Cetra]

So you ignored and completely missed the point of my post... where did I say anything about racism?

You're saying that her using make-up to appear more like they character she's dressing up as is boiling the character down to JUST being black. Which is kinda what racism is, making assumptions about someone just based off of their race.

You may not have stated it explicitly, but that's subtext I got from it. Skin color means nothing. Anyone, of any race, can be a dickbag or a good person. It's up to them.

Focusing so much attention on her choice to use makeup in her costume is doing exactly what her costume is being accused of doing. Kinda funny how that works, eh?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

And it's still his most defining characteristic to a lot of people. Doesn't matter what he has done in office or who he is as a person he is black first.

Yeah, because being the first black person to be President of a country born out of slavery is an amazing feat that could drastically change the country forever. When you're the first to do something that's usually what they lead your resume with.

 

[Kitschkraft]

You're saying that her using make-up to appear more like they character she's dressing up as is boiling the character down to JUST being black. Which is kinda what racism is, making assumptions about someone just based off of their race.

You may not have stated it explicitly, but that's subtext I got from it. Skin color means nothing. Anyone, of any race, can be a dickbag or a good person. It's up to them.

Focusing so much attention on her choice to use makeup in her costume is doing exactly what her costume is being accused of doing. Kinda funny how that works, eh?

Mother of god. The "you're racist for accusing me of racism" argument. A clear sign of a purely semantic argument.

I think that you're racist, because you're accusing enzom21 of being racist, for accusing Julianne Hough of being racist!

And I'm racist for thinking that you're racist for accusing enzom21 of being racist for accusing Julianne Hough of being racist!

The cycle will NEVER end!

Kinda funny how that works, eh?

 

[Black-Wind]

You're saying that her using make-up to appear more like they character she's dressing up as is boiling the character down to JUST being black. Which is kinda what racism is, making assumptions about someone just based off of their race.

That's not racism.

 

[Cetra]

Mother of god. The "you're racist for accusing me of racism" argument. A clear sign of a purely semantic argument.

I think that you're racist, because you're accusing enzom21 of being racist, for accusing Julianne Hough of being racist!

And I'm racist for thinking that you're racist for accusing enzom21 of being racist for accusing Julianne Hough of being racist!

The cycle will NEVER end!

Kinda funny how that works, eh?

It truly is. That was kinda my point as well.

 

[Dash27]

Cause the character is noted for having weird hair by Japanese standards and was picked on for it. Part of his black story.

And so if someone dyed their hair red to look like him would that be ok?

Also was that a typo at the end lol

 

[Octavion Rex]

She doesn't pull the black look off well. Orange isn't her color, and lordy those costumes suck!
I don't think its offensive. Its just a costume. Stop getting so upset over such meaningless garbage people. ITS JUST FOR FUN!

 

[Fusebox]

I don't personally get why so many white people feel the need to paint their skin to "look like" someone who is chocolate.

I have dressed up as Mario and Eminem ... never felt the need to paint my skin cause there's more elements to a person/ character then what color they are.

Just don't change your hair color or put on an Italian voice when you dress up as Mario. He didn't choose his hair color he was born that way, and saying itsameeMario is just racist.

 

[GhettoGamer]

If you mean ignorant of the fact that there are armies of over-sensitive people who'd chose to take issue with a harmless Halloween costume, sure.

Harmless? Wow just wow, I have grandparents who grew up in the era of blackface that would take offense to this. Dont just brush this off cause YOU dont take offense to it my main issue with this isnt because i think she is a racist (i dont think she is) but the fact that everyone thinks you need to paint your skin black to dress as black charcters

 

[Mr. Patch]

I guess some people just refuse to see why people would find this type of shit offensive.

Really comparing hair color to race lol

 

[Ovid]

This one is great.

Haha...Coming To America.

 

[Maxim726X]

Harmless? Wow just wow, I have grandparents who grew up in the era of blackface that would take offense to this. Dont just brush this off cause YOU dont take offense to it my main issue with this isnt because i think she is a racist (i dont think she is) but the fact that everyone thinks you need to paint your skin black to dress as black charcters

It's not blackface...

And it was insensitive. And it was stupid. Doesn't make it racist.

 

[GhettoGamer]

This one is great.

Wow look at that he dressed as a black charcter without the need for painting his skin, interesting

 

[Jak140]

Being black for white people means they only assume the superficial appearance of being black for a temporary time in order to play a role or pretend to be someone who is black, for fun. While actual black people live every day black, cannot pretend not to be black, or shed themselves of society's hurtful stereotypes of black people, like the white people in black paint are able to do. The white people who paint their skin black are insensitive to black people for the reason that black people are marginalized for the way they look - the color of their skin - to the point it defines many blacks' life experiences. So when a white person casually assumes that visual, apparently unaware of the privilege them being white grants them, it makes some people uncomfortable.

The power dynamic of our society isn't conducive to treating everyone in a vacuum. That context that whites maintain cultural dominance and exert oppressive forces on minorities is still there, and to pretend (in all the ways it can be manifested in every day life) it isn't is ignorant and insensitive. Intent does not absolve anyone of not knowing that what they do is potentially offensive to people.

Couldn't you say the same thing about someone portraying a character in a wheelchair like Xavier or another disabled character though? Or a man dressing up as a woman? Obviously, all of these examples would be wrong if the intent was to disparage, but assume it is done respectfully. Women and disabled people have a different struggle than blacks, but they are similar in that they have a position in society that is less privileged than the average white male. Does that mean it's wrong for someone who isn't disabled to dress up as Xavier because at the end of the day they get to get up and leave the wheelchair behind? Or that it's wrong for a man to dress up as a woman for Halloween because he can take off the make-up and leave the bra behind?

The difference is that, while her costume is not blackface by any traditional definition (in that it is not a gross exaggeration or worn to mock), for some, regardless of intent, the act of darkening ones skin to portray a black person glances close enough to the history of blackface to offend. I will refrain from making any judgement about whether that is right or wrong because I can't decide for others what they find offensive. I don't think what she did was inherently wrong; she intended to pay homage to a character she liked and mimicked a few of the character's most obvious physical characteristics, just as someone portraying a woman or disabled person would. If someone has a big nose or large eyebrows when I wear a costume with a big nose or large eyebrows to look like them, I'm not saying a big nose or large eyebrows is what defines them as a person, I'm just saying that it is part of their physical appearance. I don't personally find her costume offensive, but that said, I understand that it might trigger a place too close to the history of blackface for some, regardless of intent.

 

[GungHo]

This one is great.

If he starts speaking and has a really high-pitched voice, I'd piss my pants laughing.

 

[lenovox1]

Wow look at that he dressed as a black charcter without the need for painting his skin, interesting

Though, and this may just be me, if I hadn't looked above your post and read "Coming to America," I would have thought he was a Korean dictator. Oh, well.

 

[Cetra]

Harmless? Wow just wow, I have grandparents who grew up in the era of blackface that would take offense to this. Dont just brush this off cause YOU dont take offense to it my main issue with this isnt because i think she is a racist (i dont think she is) but the fact that everyone thinks you need to paint your skin black to dress as black charcters

Her costume was not blackface. When dressing in costume people typically try to look like the creature, person, or thing they're attempting to dress ass. If she was going as Wolverine and glued on some sideburns should then people with sideburns take offense? If she was going as a turtle, and used green makeup, should we rally and take her down for offending turtles? No, that'd be silly.

This whole thing is silly in the same way. Her costume in no way is blackface.

Am I of the opinion that actual blackface is bad? Hell fucking yes I am. But am I gonna sit here and say that Julianne's costume constitutes blackface, no way.

 

[roosters93]

Wow look at that he dressed as a black charcter without the need for painting his skin, interesting

He also has a darker skin tone than Julianne Hough but.

 

[GhettoGamer]

Her costume was not blackface. When dressing in costume people typically try to look like the creature, person, or thing they're attempting to dress ass. If she was going as Wolverine and glued on some sideburns should then people with sideburns take offense? If she was going as a turtle, and used green makeup, should we rally and take her down for offending turtles? No, that'd be silly.

This whole thing is silly in the same way. Her costume in no way is blackface.

Am I of the opinion that actual blackface is bad? Hell fucking yes I am. But am I gonna sit here and say that Julianne's costume constitutes blackface, no way.

She could have pulled off the character without the need for darkening her skin. Looking at the character all she had to do was get the hair, clothes and mannerisms down and people who watches the show would know who she is dressed as. My whole beef with this thing is darkening your skin to play black characters, you cannot compare skin color to wolverines sideburns. Slayven posted some examples of white people cosplaying as black characters and they didnt darken thier skin

 

[Zozz]

WOW, that African themed party is all kinds of fucked up.

 

[Arde5643]

White privilege: casually practicing overt racism without intentionally meaning to.

 

[Jak140]

White privilege: casually practicing overt racism without intentionally meaning to.

I understand why the costume is offensive to some, but what makes it racist?

Edit: Assuming you are talking about Hough's costume. If not I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[Cetra]

My whole beef with this thing is darkening your skin to play black characters.

And my whole issue is why take such offense at it when it's done innocently?

 

[GhettoGamer]

And my whole issue is why take such offense at it when it's done innocently?

Because there is no need to paint her skin black

 

[mantidor]

Though, and this may just be me, if I hadn't looked above your post and read "Coming to America," I would have thought he was a Korean dictator. Oh, well.

It's interesting for me that Coming to America wouldn't fly today, the movie would be consider offensive in so many ways about how it portrays Africa. It's such a shame people are so hung up about issues, I really liked that movie, even if that Africa representation was hardly accurate.

 

[Fusebox]

How does the anti-paint team feel about this?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

As a black person, I'm pretty sure this isn't blackface.

Heard about it on the radio and now just saw the pic. I'm not seeing the basis for offense here. It's Halloween and it is a specific character. And it certainly is not in the racist blackface style.

 

[plantedunicorn]

And my whole issue is why take such offense at it when it's done innocently?

Because even innocent things can still be racist. If someone came up to me acted surprised and said you speak very well; that's an innocent comment but in the end it's fucking racist and offensive. I'm black by the way.

 

[Arde5643]

I understand why the costume is offensive to some, but what makes it racist?

Edit: Assuming you are talking about Hough's costume. If not I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Not so much the costume, more of the blackface. While she herself might not be a racist, it was quite a overt racist action considering that she's American (doesn't help she's white as well).

How does the anti-paint team feel about this?

Idiotic questions require stupid answers as well - we feel as offended as much as you think she's real. But please, continue with the idiotic questions - seems like a given with the posters in this thread.

But it isn't blackface.

A stupid answer without starting with an idiotic question - an improvement if I ever see one.

 

[Fusebox]

Not so much the costume, more of the blackface. While she herself might not be a racist, it was quite a overt racist action considering that she's American (doesn't help she's white as well).

But it isn't blackface.

 

[Stet]

When the first five posts on a page are sarcastic strawman arguments, I think it's time to close the thread.