Support NeoGAF

[brotkasten]

Nokia's has just announced its Q3 2013 financial results, revealing an operating profit of €118 million ($162 million) from €5.66 billion ($7.8 billion) revenue. That's up massively year-over-year, but nonetheless represents another quarter of middling results. The report is the first since Microsoft agreed to purchase Nokia's phone business, and that division — Devices & Services — performed as expected, posting a small loss of €86 million ($118 million).

North American device sales improved significantly from the previous quarter, reaching 1.4 million shipped in total during Q3, a 400 percent increase year-on-year. Nokia previously shipped 500,000 devices in North America during the previous quarter. Lumia shipments have improved dramatically this time around as part of Nokia's "rolling thunder" approach to the US. While its been a slow and bumpy project so far, with dips and increases over the lifetime of North American Lumia sales, the 1.4 million shipments shows that budget handsets like the Lumia 521 and Lumia 520 are working to push volumes in the US. Nokia also released its Verizon flagship, the Lumia 928, on May 16th, so we've now had a full quarter of both the Lumia 521 and 928.

Average selling price for Nokia's smart devices comes in at 143 euros, a seven percent decrease from the same quarter last year when it was 155 euros. Nokia is only counting Lumia sales rather that a mix of Symbian and Lumia previously, but it's clear the that Nokia's low-end Windows Phones are starting to sell and pushing the ASP down. "On a sequential basis, the increase in our Smart Devices volumes in the third quarter 2013 was primarily due to the Lumia 520," says Nokia. Adduplex, a firm that measures the usage statistics of Windows Phones, backs up the popularity of Nokia's Lumia 520. Adduplex claims Nokia's Lumia 520 is the most popular Windows Phone worldwide.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/29/5041528/nokia-q3-2013-financial-report

8.8 million still seems a bit low and while getting volume out, they should be making some money on their handsets. The 520 is the best selling Windows device right now (PC, tablets, phones) and they're achieving this result by giving them away.

 

[Bomber Bob]

lumias are huge here in europe

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Dat 520!

Seriously great deal and a good phone as well.

 

[desa]

They're popular in southeast asia too. Good for them going after the low price market. Average wage here would take forever for a person to buy a 600 dollar plus phone. I own a 520 myself. Awesome phone for the price.

 

[LeleSocho]

lumias are huge here in europe

Yep no real surprise though, they are great and solid phones both in hardware and software the Nokia name did the rest.

 

[hadareud]

The bump in US sales is quite encouraging, though overall they might have expected a slightly bigger increase world-wide.

 

[kharma45]

Dat 520!

Seriously great deal and a good phone as well.

I wonder how many of the sales are down to that device alone.

 

[Cheese Sandwich]

I wonder how many of the sales are down to that device alone.

http://m.wpcentral.com/nokia-lumia-520-most-popular-windows-phone-according-new-data
I'm currently posting from my 520 as well.

 

[brotkasten]

I wonder how many of the sales are down to that device alone.

Like I said, it's the best selling Windows device across all form factors.

 

[Milchjon]

Last Saturday I saw 4 Lumias in the wild!

Spoiler

I also saw Samsungs in the triple digits.

 

[kharma45]

Like I said, it's the best selling Windows device across all form factors.

I want real numbers in millions of devices not percentages of the Windows Phone marketshare.

 

[Purkake4]

Great, get some diversity in there.

 

[hadareud]

I want real numbers in millions of devices not percentages of the Windows Phone marketshare.

Yeah, get on it Brotkasten!

 

[Funky Papa]

The 520 is a tremendous little device for those consumers who want a fully featured smartphone that's really cheap, as simple to use as a dumbphone (or almost) and runs silky smooth. It's just a straight up good deal.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

The smartphone division made a €214m loss for the quarter. My guess is as a result of negative margins on high volume hardware like the 520 and not enough volume of high margin hardware like the 92x series. To highlight that, the gross margin has decreased QoQ from 21% to 16.5%, which points to aggressive pricing to maintain volume and increase market share.

 

[kharma45]

The 520 is a tremendous little device for those consumers who want a fully featured smartphone that's really cheap, as simple to use as a dumbphone (or almost) and runs silky smooth. It's just a straight up good deal.

Yeah it's hard to beat. My brother grabbed one when it was £60 here and I'm pretty impressed by it for half the price of my 620.

I wonder what the 525 will bring when it's unveiled.

 

[Mario007]

Android really needs to get better to be able to work on the hardware costing 100-150 euro. I mean there are some alternatives out there like Galaxy Mini 2 or Xperia E but they are still pretty slow and relatively expansive comparable to then 520. This'll probably get better next year when a dualcore device should hopefully become a standard for the low end, like it happened this year with the 200 euro bracket.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Android really needs to get better to be able to work on the hardware costing 100-150 euro. I mean there are some alternatives out there like Galaxy Mini 2 or Xperia E but they are still pretty slow and relatively expansive comparable to then 520. This'll probably get better next year when a dualcore device should hopefully become a standard for the low end, like it happened this year with the 200 euro bracket.

TBF, I don't think WP works all that well with low end hardware, it's just Nokia are selling them for below cost to increase their market share. The hardware in the 520 is the same as in the Xperia M which sells for £160 vs £100 for the 520. I doubt Sony make much money on the Xperia M for that matter.

 

[Funky Papa]

Android really needs to get better to be able to work on the hardware costing 100-150 euro. I mean there are some alternatives out there like Galaxy Mini 2 or Xperia E but they are still pretty slow and relatively expansive comparable to then 520. This'll probably get better next year when a dualcore device should hopefully become a standard for the low end, like it happened this year with the 200 euro bracket.

There are cheap Android devices faster than the Lumia 520. The problem is that stock Android is kind of crummy and unattractive, and most customizations made by manufacturers tend to be even crummier and more unattractive in low end phones, and that's when they don't bring the performance down.

For all its maladies, Windows Phone offers and incredibly coherent and fluid experience even at the cheapest price points. The whole thing is so easy to use it's hard to believe it was made by Microsoft. And for older/purse strained consumers, that's something very important.

 

[tino]

Whats the point of this thread, Nokia is already sold.

 

[kharma45]

TBF, I don't think WP works all that well with low end hardware, it's just Nokia are selling them for below cost to increase their market share. The hardware in the 520 is the same as in the Xperia M which sells for £160 vs £100 for the 520. I doubt Sony make much money on the Xperia M for that matter.

u wot? WP runs really well on low end hardware.

 

[Yoshiya]

TBF, I don't think WP works all that well with low end hardware, it's just Nokia are selling them for below cost to increase their market share. The hardware in the 520 is the same as in the Xperia M which sells for £160 vs £100 for the 520. I doubt Sony make much money on the Xperia M for that matter.

it certainly marks an interesting change in strategy. do you think microsoft will keep it up? a device like the 520/525 could be genuinely disruptive if it was aggressively marketed.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

u wot? WP runs really well on low end hardware.

The 520 is decidedly mid-range in terms of hardware. Dual core Krait, solid GPU, decent amount of RAM, decent screen resolution. That Nokia are selling it in the low end for a low end price is what makes it such a great deal. Not so great for shareholders given the €214m loss in the division and falling gross margins.

 

[hadareud]

Whats the point of this thread, Nokia is already sold.

No, they're not.

 

[«þ»]

Purchased a Lumia 520 as a backup phone for under $100 Australian Dollars outright... great phone for the price. Nice to see Nokia on the rebound.

 

[kharma45]

The 520 is decidedly mid-range in terms of hardware. Dual core Krait, solid GPU, decent amount of RAM, decent screen resolution. That Nokia are selling it in the low end for a low end price is what makes it such a great deal. Not so great for shareholders given the €214m loss in the division and falling gross margins.

I think I just got my wires crossed there. When you said 'I don't think WP works all that well with low end hardware' I took that as the OS itself doesn't work well on the lower end hardware.

 

[Ghost]

Hopefully the success of the 520 will convince MS/Nokia to release a similarly slim margin phone at high end and compete with the Nexus 4/5.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I think I just got my wires crossed there. When you said 'I don't think WP works all that well with low end hardware' I took that as the OS itself doesn't work well on the lower end hardware.

Well it remains to be seen if it works well (at all, even) on low-end hardware (the likes of that which is inside Asha phones and those awful Galaxy "crap" phones). I don't know of any WP hardware which has single core, not very much RAM, not very much internal storage and a low screen resolution. Part of the attraction of WP as a user is that the baseline spec for WP is much higher than for Android which means there is a certain level of quality guarantee that one wouldn't get with Android.

Again, the 520 is a mid-range phone sold for a low end price. That's why it's doing so well in the marketplace and that's what makes it such a great deal.

 

[Enkidu]

Whats the point of this thread, Nokia is already sold.

They are not sold yet hence why this thread exists. And even after the sale takes place, Nokia will still continue to exist. Just like with the Sony Ericsson deal, it's only the handset division that is being sold so the company will still be around and release quarterly financial data.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

u wot? WP runs really well on low end hardware.

The only thing low end about the phone is the 512MB of RAM processor beats out my galaxy nexus processor which is fine for a low end phone. Also Android runs well on low end hardware but with razor thin margins you don't get to see those phones outside of China/Taiwan and Africa.

Arm devices.net were showcasing sub $100 android tablets a year ago. Check his YouTube.



@Ghost I am sure MS/Nokia would like to make a profit some time not just bleeding money to increase share forever.

 

[kharma45]

Well it remains to be seen if it works well (at all, even) on low-end hardware (the likes of that which is inside Asha phones and those awful Galaxy "crap" phones). I don't know of any WP hardware which has single core, not very much RAM, not very much internal storage and a low screen resolution. Part of the attraction of WP as a user is that the baseline spec for WP is much higher than for Android which means there is a certain level of quality guarantee that one wouldn't get with Android.

Again, the 520 is a mid-range phone sold for a low end price. That's why it's doing so well in the marketplace and that's what makes it such a great deal.

Yeah I probably am doing the S4 in it a disservice by calling it low-end, it's still a potent enough SoC.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Hopefully the success of the 520 will convince MS/Nokia to release a similarly slim margin phone at high end and compete with the Nexus 4/5.

Honestly, with MS shareholders increasingly sceptical about being involved with hardware at all, there will be pressure on the division to raise margins very quickly. a 16.5% gross margin compares to Apple's gross margin of 37% and Microsoft's company wide gross margin of ~50%.

Yeah I probably am doing the S4 in it a disservice by calling it low-end, it's still a potent enough SoC.

Indeed. That's why at £100, the 520 is a great deal!

 

[General Choomin]

blarh stupid post.

 

[LeleSocho]

Well it remains to be seen if it works well (at all, even) on low-end hardware (the likes of that which is inside Asha phones and those awful Galaxy "crap" phones). I don't know of any WP hardware which has single core, not very much RAM, not very much internal storage and a low screen resolution. Part of the attraction of WP as a user is that the baseline spec for WP is much higher than for Android which means there is a certain level of quality guarantee that one wouldn't get with Android.

Again, the 520 is a mid-range phone sold for a low end price. That's why it's doing so well in the marketplace and that's what makes it such a great deal.

Lumia 800 is just what you described and it goes on par/better than an iPhone4 pre iOS7.
Ok when it was out it was an high end phone but that hardware nowadays is ancient and could be made for cheap i guess.

 

[Aklamarth]

My single core 800Mhz, 512 Ram HTC HD7 (with WP7.8) runs circles around some dual core Android phones. For low spec hardware Windows Phone basically smokes the competition.

 

[kharma45]

My single core 800Mhz, 512 Ram HTC HD7 (with WP7.8) runs circles around some dual core Android phones. For low spec hardware Windows Phone basically smokes the competition.

Pedantic but the HD7 had a mighty 1GHz clockspeed.

 

[Funky Papa]

The HD7 is secretly one of HTC's finest phones ever.

 

[hadareud]

The smartphone division made a €214m loss for the quarter. My guess is as a result of negative margins on high volume hardware like the 520 and not enough volume of high margin hardware like the 92x series. To highlight that, the gross margin has decreased QoQ from 21% to 16.5%, which points to aggressive pricing to maintain volume and increase market share.

You do know that their smartphone division includes 5.9 million Asha devices in addition to the 8.8 million Lumias?

Should be taken into account and makes these calculations and assumptions somewhat irrelevant.

edit: Asha was up to 5.9 from 4.3 compared to Q2, btw.

 

[Funky Papa]

The new Asha 503 looks fucking awesome, btw. I mean, I need a fully featured smartphone, but if I didn't, that'd be my pick. Gorilla Glass 2, long ass battery life, WhatsApp support, a new camera that doesn't suck ass and HSDPA data at fire sale price and in a tiny package. What's not to like?

 

[hadareud]

I wonder what Microsoft are going to do with Asha.

WP lite?

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I want real numbers in millions of devices not percentages of the Windows Phone marketshare.

You'll usually only get that from people doing well like Apple and Samsung.

 

[Yasir]

They're very cheap. Almost entry level smartphones.

 

[CrazedProfessional]

I wonder what Microsoft are going to do with Asha.

WP lite?

I think they'd be wise to leave it as it is, that thing is a HIT in Asia.

 

[Funky Papa]

I wonder what Microsoft are going to do with Asha.

WP lite?

That's a very good question, since Asha's hardware requirements are well within dumbphone realm and far away from even the most basic WP fare.

I mean, that thing runs silky smooth, takes passable pictures and has all the basic apps, yet it has the cheapest CPU you can find and 64MB of RAM. MB. It's wild stuff.

 

[iloled]

Been seeing more and more lumias on the street

 

[kharma45]

The new Asha 503 looks fucking awesome, btw. I mean, I need a fully featured smartphone, but if I didn't, that'd be my pick. Gorilla Glass 2, long ass battery life, WhatsApp support, a new camera that doesn't suck ass and HSDPA data at fire sale price and in a tiny package. What's not to like?

That's quite impressive for pretty low hardware.

You'll usually only get that from people doing well like Apple and Samsung.

They've said how many Lumia's have been sold in total, I just wish they'd break it down into what sold what but I guess it'd look bad when a phone like the 720 has probably sold very poorly.

 

[brotkasten]

I wonder what Microsoft are going to do with Asha.

WP lite?

They're going to put their services on them and/or drop Asha in a few years. Skype, Microsoft Drive, Bing.

That's a very good question, since Asha's hardware requirements are well within dumbphone realm and far away from even the most basic WP fare.

I mean, that thing runs silky smooth, takes passable pictures and has all the basic apps, yet it has the cheapest CPU you can find and 64MB of RAM. MB. It's wild stuff.

Every Asha I ever tried had a slow and stuttering UI. It was far from silky smooth.

 

[Funky Papa]

Every Asha I ever tried had a slow and stuttering UI. It was far from silky smooth.

The newest 5xx range is a completely different thing. Previous ones were kind of junky in typical S40 fashion.

 

[Walshicus]

Been seeing more and more lumias on the street

Defo. Becoming a very common sight here in England and the rest of Europe. From a mind-share point of view MS/Nokia's slow and steady approach is paying off. Would be interesting to know what the Marketplace spend per device per month looks like.

 

[hadareud]

Would be interesting to know what the Marketplace spend per device per month looks like.

Yes, very.

On the one hand you'd expect it to be quite ok considering that you can't pirate apps, but on the other you'd think that the lower end phones will also generate less on the marketplace.