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[Ateron]

How sad is it that even MS is now running with the upscaller being the secret sauce? I mean really. Let's take a moment to think about what that means.

These guys have been throwing so much sand on their customers eyes. Everything to prevent those pre orders from being cancelled.

It's unethical of them, that's for sure. But they're trying to sell their product, by any means necessary and, even though I don't agree with them, I can understand it. Sony would be doing the same thing if it was the other way around.

What's even worse - in my eyes - is the recent coverage of this matter by major gaming outlets. They should help the consumer to make informed choices, instead of that we get FUD. They shouldn't care which console sells more or outperforms the other. Their main focus is previews, interviews and reviews of games. They shouldn't be trying to sells us a ps4, nor they should be downplaying the (already apparent) differences.

Of course, none of that sticks in this forum, but we can all agree that the vast majority of players don't pay attention to those technical matters. They might get swayed by friends or hype. I can see them succeeding in spreading their "message" as long as most gaming sites keep their "don't matter, it's the same, super scaler is awesome, sit further away yada yada".

MS still have a 100$ difference to explain, but they're not inclined to do so, and will never do it if the gaming press doesn't put pressure on them. It's their job to be there for the consumer, but I realize that that is an idealistic dream. Most of them are nothing more than second hand PR. Gotta get them freebies and exclusive hands-on previews. That's why I refuse to consider 90% of them gaming "journalists". It's an offense to real journalism.

 

[Pachinko]

I'm still baffled that this is creating such a shitstorm on neogaf. Over a week of giant ass threads that have brought us all some fantastic gifs over something that we knew before hand. The PS4 is 30-50% faster at gaming applications then the Xbox one is and that power is accessed more easily to boot.

So if one of you were a third party developer and you had to choose between a couple of options , what would you do ? -

A - You can release your game at 900p or 1080p on PS4 and it runs at 60fps with rare dips to 30fps when shit gets real and easily port that game onto XB1 while bumping the resolution down to 720p and have the framerate still stay at 60fps almost as often. Advantages of this method ? most people will be more concerned with a stable framerate then the resolution and if the majority of the special effects and such are still there there won't be that big a difference. Disadvantages ? still images and video when previewed won't hold up under scrutiny and will always favor the PS4.

OR

B- Do the same thing with the PS4 version but for the xbox one edition, keep the resolution the same and tone down texture detail , special effects and draw distance until the framerate is as good as it is on PS4. Advantages ?- you can claim both titles run at the same resolution. Disadvantages ? - By lowering special effects and such it is far more likely that everyone who plays the game will notice that it looks worse.

It's pretty easy to see why EA and activision chose A for now. Eventually they will have to go with option B whenever they end up having to run even ps4 games at 720p.

There also exists a third option -

C- Delay Xbox One versions of all software for 6 months to custom build a port that takes full advantage of the system and you'll end up with possibly a game that looks nearly identical to the PS4 version 99% of the time. Noting that, if these developers did the same for a PS4 port, that version will ALWAYS come out looking better, but assume they wouldn't need to do that. Advantages ? No one would be able to tell the difference between the versions, Disadvantages ? It'll come 6 months later so no one will care.


Ultimately, if you want to stick with 1 console or the other you have to know what you're getting into here. Buy an Xbox one and you'll be treated to a little more variety for the first few months but know that you'll be paying an extra 100$ to buy a technically inferior system. Or buy a PS4, get some prettier games and have access to better Japanese developer support down the road. If the 100 bucks doesn't bother you and you're gaming on a 32 inch 720p set anyway then the power difference might not even matter much.

This is the first gen where waiting a few months REALLY seems worthwhile either way.

 

[Can Crusher]

This is the first gen where waiting a few months REALLY seems worthwhile either way.

Do tell. How's it any different from previous gens?

 

[Mr Moose]

Is that Aaron Greenberg?

 

[sneaky77]

It's pretty easy to see why EA and activision chose A for now. Eventually they will have to go with option B whenever they end up having to run even ps4 games at 720p.

I seen this a few times but why do people keep saying like is a fact and companies are not going to find more effective ways to deal with the consoles and get more out of them.
didn't games this current gen improve graphics as well as resolution over time.

 

[DBT85]

Another article crops up calling out the bigger gaming sites for saying nowt.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ga...One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html

 

[GeoramA]

All of the major tech websites need to call out this shit. Native 1080p >>>>> upscaled 1080p.

Not gonna happen. If anything, they'll come bailing MS out as usual.

 

[Mr Moose]

Another article crops up calling out the bigger gaming sites for saying nowt.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ga...One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html

Doritocracy lol

It's good that people are starting to take notice of this behaviour.

 

[ymmv]

There are already hundreds of them in the wild, running absolutely fine. Extremely rare cases of overheating. I say overheating, but when it does it just turns itself off temporarily so it never actually over heats to the extent where it gets damaged. Should be known that the only PS4 in the wild that has shut itself down over this was enclosed in a tiny plastic box with no ventilation what-so-ever.

Classic FUD. Use an incident to spread malicious rumors about a competing product.

 

[marc^o^]

Another article crops up calling out the bigger gaming sites for saying nowt.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ga...One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html

Usually, tech enthusiasts refer to benchmarks before taking the financial plunge. It's imperative to get the most for your hard earned money... right? Right?! Not in the land of the Doritocracy.

Doritocracy deserves to be added to the urban gaming dictionary.

 

[GloveSlap]

I assume the main problem MS has with that surprisingly big power difference is, XBox core audience was built on the original console upon this power difference. Then x360 launched and again, the core audience had a reason to stick with the XBox as it was the most powerful console for a year, and then it kept having the best multiplatform ports.

At $500, early adopters should be the core audience, but MS has all reasons to be afraid to lose them, because of this power factor.

This is how I look at it as well. XBone is the pretty much the opposite of everything that made me choose Xbox and Xbox 360 as my primary consoles, its an Xbox in name only.

Thats why I don't understand why Xbox fans try to lie to themselves or try to muddy the waters. Just accept the situation at face value or buy a PS4. Brand loyalty is pointless.

 

[AstroNut325]

Another article crops up calling out the bigger gaming sites for saying nowt.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ga...One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html

I have come across my new favorite word:

Doritocracy

 

[BigDug13]

I seen this a few times but why do people keep saying like is a fact and companies are not going to find more effective ways to deal with the consoles and get more out of them.
didn't games this current gen improve graphics as well as resolution over time.

Haven't you heard? CoD Ghosts and BF4 run at 480p on current gen consoles because late in a console's life, developers are all forced down to the lower resolution just like he claimed.



(Not sure where this "late cycle PS4 games will have to be 720p" nonsense has come from.)

 

[sneaky77]

I assume the main problem MS has with that surprisingly big power difference is, XBox core audience was built on the original console upon this power difference. Then x360 launched and again, the core audience had a reason to stick with the XBox as it was the most powerful console for a year, and then it kept having the best multiplatform ports.

At $500, early adopters should be the core audience, but MS has all reasons to be afraid to lose them, because of this power factor.

The 360 also had the benefit of coming out a yearly early so developers were much more familiar in developing with it by the time the PS3 showed up with a far more complex architecture and a $600 price when the 360 was $400.

This time going head to head is not really comparable to last time. That's my opinion of course.

 

[nib95]

Another article crops up calling out the bigger gaming sites for saying nowt.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ga...One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html

Good stuff. Agree with the premise of the article. Also, Doritocracy lol.

 

[Gaz_RB]

lmao

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I remember when my dad wanted to buy me a Playstation. Told him to stuff it, I had a megadrive and I wanted a Sega Saturn, which he ended up buying.

Sometimes being ignorant isn't the greatest thing in the world.

I'm sorry I had to bring back those painful feels from the past, Can.

But it had to be done for the youths. As a warning.

 

[BotoxAgent]

There really needs to be a new thread about Greenberg's tweet

 

[zomgbbqftw]

This is how I look at it as well. XBone is the pretty much the opposite of everything that made me choose Xbox and Xbox 360 as my primary consoles, its an Xbox in name only.

Thats why I don't understand why Xbox fans try to lie to themselves or try to muddy the waters. Just accept the situation at face value or buy a PS4. Brand loyalty is pointless.

Indeed. The PS4 is the follow up to the 360. Focussed on games with solid network functions. The Bone is a follow up to the PS3, not focussed on games and has a bunch of extra stuff (Blu-ray in the case of the PS3, TV and Kinect for the Bone).

The difference is that Sony's first party output and $5bn hardware losses made it possible for the PS3 to recover in the marketplace. I don't see MS shareholders being as forgiving, nor do I see any critical first party title outside of Halo that will make people want to buy in.

 

[Finalizer]

A - You can release your game at 900p or 1080p on PS4 and it runs at 60fps with rare dips to 30fps when shit gets real and easily port that game onto XB1 while bumping the resolution down to 720p and have the framerate still stay at 60fps almost as often. Advantages of this method ? most people will be more concerned with a stable framerate then the resolution and if the majority of the special effects and such are still there there won't be that big a difference. Disadvantages ? still images and video when previewed won't hold up under scrutiny and will always favor the PS4.

B- Do the same thing with the PS4 version but for the xbox one edition, keep the resolution the same and tone down texture detail , special effects and draw distance until the framerate is as good as it is on PS4. Advantages ?- you can claim both titles run at the same resolution. Disadvantages ? - By lowering special effects and such it is far more likely that everyone who plays the game will notice that it looks worse.

C- Delay Xbox One versions of all software for 6 months to custom build a port that takes full advantage of the system and you'll end up with possibly a game that looks nearly identical to the PS4 version 99% of the time. Noting that, if these developers did the same for a PS4 port, that version will ALWAYS come out looking better, but assume they wouldn't need to do that. Advantages ? No one would be able to tell the difference between the versions, Disadvantages ? It'll come 6 months later so no one will care.

The thing that makes the situation a bit surprising is that a number of folks - myself included - assumed it would end up with a different option:

D- Spend most of the development time optimizing software for the Xbone to let it hit some target resolution/framerate, then port over to PS4 with minimal effort, leveraging its simpler architecture and ease of development to just quickly get the game up and running at the same spec as the Xbone version.

To see visual disparities out the gate, particularly as wide as 720p vs. 1080p, is actually pretty surprising. Plenty of people insisted that, while there's a hardware disparity, it might not have manifested until the second wave of multiplat titles where devs would really have time to sit down and dig into each systems' capabilities.

 

[DBT85]

Doritocracy deserves to be added to the urban gaming dictionary.

I agree.

The article is great, nice to see more standing up and saying "no, it's not ok".

 

[simplythebest]

How sad is it that even MS is now running with the upscaller being the secret sauce? I mean really. Let's take a moment to think about what that means.

These guys have been throwing so much sand on their customers eyes. Everything to prevent those pre orders from being cancelled.

It's not like you will be able to tell the difference anyway, right?

 

[Hoje0308]

I remember when my dad wanted to buy me a Playstation. Told him to stuff it, I had a megadrive and I wanted a Sega Saturn, which he ended up buying.

Sometimes being ignorant isn't the greatest thing in the world.

At least you didn't skip both in favor of the N64. There were some great games, but the release dates were so far apart. I finally admitted my mistake and got a Playstation for my birthday, just before MGS came out. Being able to break it in with Gran Turismo was probably the best initial console experience I'm likely to have.

 

[Thorgal]

There really needs to be a new thread about Greenberg's tweet

You are free to make one .if you think it is really new thread worthy .

Not sure if the mods would agree though .

 

[jimbobsmells]

I remember when my dad wanted to buy me a Playstation. Told him to stuff it, I had a megadrive and I wanted a Sega Saturn, which he ended up buying.

Sometimes being ignorant isn't the greatest thing in the world.

Lol I did the same thing! Damn I'm glad we have social media now to educate ourselves.

 

[BigDug13]

You are free to make one .if you think it is really new thread worthy .

Not sure if the mods would agree though .

I think the Doritocracy article deserves a thread more than that tweet.

 

[Killing_Joke]

MS PR is hitting ultimate delusional territory. I get it that they didn't want to admit defeat. They know selling a $500 weaker system is an uphill battle. But the amount of deception their online PR team is trying to pull is insane. 720p is the same as 1080p? In what universe? Yes, not every gamer is a pixel counter but the downplay i've seen is so fucking ridiculous. We just came off a generation where every damn PS3 3rd party game was shitted on. But god forbid MS takes a few shots! oh noes!

Cerny fixed shit. No more crazy HW. Nice and easy for developers. It just so happens the system is also more power across the board. And yet here we are. Everyone with a brain would have saw this coming months ago. Guess all that cloud computing turned out to be bullshit eh?

 

[Alchemy]

To see visual disparities out the gate, particularly as wide as 720p vs. 1080p, is actually pretty surprising. Plenty of people insisted that, while there's a hardware disparity, it might not have manifested until the second wave of multiplat titles where devs would really have time to sit down and dig into each systems' capabilities.

The problem with this is neither system is really that complicated. The reason we saw such massive gains during the lifetime of previous generations was a combination of weird hardware and optimization techniques unique to each platform and maturity of real time 3D rendering techniques. Neither the Xbone or the PS4 really do anything that developers aren't familiar with, unlike the PS3's Cell or the Saturn as examples.

Really the only thing developers will have to figure out how to maximize this generation is GPU computing, which is unlikely to impact visual fidelity as much as AI or physics.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

imho the truth is...

for the "specs whores" ..we have already a winner of the gen and is the ps4..if for "specs whore" we just talking about persons that care only and purely of the gpu...and in this case we should be called "graphical whores"? istead if we was "tech whores"..the forum should talk about more aspects of both consoles...
the tech behind kinect..the online platforms (that ihmo is one of the most important thing of the next gen)..and also the new audio of the xb1
i know that pixels come to the eyes before everything else...but..but... isnt too easy takin in account just pixel and leave all the rest away?! are we just "graphical whores"?
calling a console more powerful than the other is just so relative.... more in what ?...pushing pixels? but a "tech whore" could answer:
"yeah but the xb1 os seem more sophisticaed..and have a bigger multimedia feel with the hdmi and the snap.. the cpu could have a higher clock....also the audio is more powerfull and the kinect specs are better than ps4 camera specs ...and the online platform of one of the two console seem to be "x" times better than the other"

all is relative...really relative...
and as a gamer i dont care about specs...as a ignorant tech lover....i care about the ps4 flops as much as the kinect and the 300k xbl servers

On one hand... the amount of neurons that die whenever i read one of your posts should be enough to make me put you on my ignore list... but i find your posts hilariously funny in their inaccuracy... so i can't gather the will to actually do it... decisions... decisions...

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I think the Doritocracy article deserves a thread more than that tweet.

Done!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=708085

 

[EdReedFan20]

Sorry to hijack this topic, but it seems Marcus Beer (annoyed Gamer) is claiming via sources the PS4 is prone to overheating...and this is why no retail units are available for reviewers etc..

anybody else heard this?

The only thing I saw (and this would be hilarious if this was his source) was that someone tweeted him a link from Misterxmedia saying PS4 is overheating (and this was why Sony is having the review thing). Marcus responded by saying it could be unfortunately true. And then there was the picture with the red line, which I've heard people say is photoshopped. Even Shuhei Yoshida himself apparently said the image was not real.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

How can you not be amazed by it though? They're just straight up trying to redefine what 1080p means.

MS have a history of this. These days, we don't have Patches, we have Title Updates.

 

[NingenJanai]

That 1080p MS spinning is just disgusting, a bluray player can also output dvd movies at 1080p but bluray movies still look much better.

 

[simplythebest]

Just been catching up with this thread, holy crap. What a shitty, misleading sentence that is.

There is just something about Greenberg's face in that picture that's even more creepy than Tim Dog's die hard fanboyim toward the Xbox brand.

 

[FranXico]

This Reddit thread can't be real:

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1pqs7b/battlefield_4_1080p_and_60_fps_footage_for_xbox/

The stupidity there... I just can't...

 

[RayMaker]

It's not like you will be able to tell the difference anyway, right?

Let the hyperbole continue.

 

[Ascended Saiyan]

Did I miss anything good ?

 

[mangochutney]

It is users like that, that is the reason why Albert, Aaron and Major spread their bullshit. They do not question what they're told.

If your TV is 1080p then everything you watch will be in 1080p. Unless you've set it to letterbox your TV will upscale everything to fill every pixel on the display!

 

[weekend_warrior]

Another article crops up calling out the bigger gaming sites for saying nowt.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ga...One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html

Good article. Nobody is expecting the media to hand the generation victory to Sony based on tech alone, but completely downplaying the difference when many people expected closer parity is extremely dishonest. Nobody was claiming the differences between Wii game and 360/PS3 games was "indistinguishable".

 

[Bravocado]

Is that Aaron Greenberg?

Either it is and it's disgusting or it's someone who's oblivious to the fact that the TV won't need to stretch only because the console already did, which is only marginally better and still way worse than true native full HD.

 

[Wickerbasket]

That's the joke.

I know, I was being sarcastic.

Sarcasm doesn't translate very well over the internet; my bad.

 

[Quadraphonic]

This is why the Internet is a sad place. You have no idea the age of people you are discussing things with.

It's quite obvious when you dig into /r/XboxOne that it's a lot of stubborn children. Even more, you'll find a lot of them referring to the Xbox One as "we" because they feel it's their fight to help it do better, somehow.

 

[Bojanglez]

Using his own logic against him, it could be argued that the Xbone shows no resolution improvement from the 360, but I can't seeing him stating that so readily.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

You asked what the chances were.

I'll be back. You're right, I should talk about it. But right now, still lots of info to come out. Once the dust settles, and all the information is out there, I'll address my comments.

And when shall that be Mr. Penello?

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Did I miss anything good ?

Other than Mr. Penello dropping in to move goal posts once again... not really.

 

[gofreak]

Coming soon - 'it's not a worse framerate, your TV is refreshing at 60+ so it's the same!'

Some of these more recent MS comments will be for the ages.

It is sad to see MS caught between refusing to cede - or even ignore - any competitor advantage, and being moronically disingenuous and patronising.

They need to own their positioning and focus on the positives/differences.

 

[wapplew]

It's unethical of them, that's for sure. But they're trying to sell their product, by any means necessary and, even though I don't agree with them, I can understand it. Sony would be doing the same thing if it was the other way around.

What's even worse - in my eyes - is the recent coverage of this matter by major gaming outlets. They should help the consumer to make informed choices, instead of that we get FUD. They shouldn't care which console sells more or outperforms the other. Their main focus is previews, interviews and reviews of games. They shouldn't be trying to sells us a ps4, nor they should be downplaying the (already apparent) differences.

Of course, none of that sticks in this forum, but we can all agree that the vast majority of players don't pay attention to those technical matters. They might get swayed by friends or hype. I can see them succeeding in spreading their "message" as long as most gaming sites keep their "don't matter, it's the same, super scaler is awesome, sit further away yada yada".

MS still have a 100$ difference to explain, but they're not inclined to do so, and will never do it if the gaming press doesn't put pressure on them. It's their job to be there for the consumer, but I realize that that is an idealistic dream. Most of them are nothing more than second hand PR. Gotta get them freebies and exclusive hands-on previews. That's why I refuse to consider 90% of them gaming "journalists". It's an offense to real journalism.

It's sad but true. There will be a lot more downplay hardware strength, ps4 build quality worry, all those shit article before 15th
But once ps4 release, things will get more ugly. Every single hardware/software faulty will get report everywhere even it's only 1 unit out of all launch ps4

 

[Metalmurphy]

I really hope we eventually get a game that's 720p on both systems.

 

[Dysun]

I really hope we eventually get a game that's 720p on both systems.

Wii U and Xbone's Call of Duty Ghosts fits your bill (more or less)

 

[Pain]

I really hope we eventually get a game that's 720p on both systems.

Why? Would that make you feel better?