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[NervousXtian]

It's not about money. It really isn't. That's paranoia.

It's about influence. It is about creating an environment where the enthusiast reviewers can be the MOST enthusiastic.

Once Microsoft has to pay, they have a scandal on their hands. But they don't have to. They can get people to do things for them without paying a cent.

Sony can too, of course. And they do. But they are no where near as good at it as the western publishers are...from what I can tell. Look at how bad Nintendo is at it. dragonsworne above is absolutely right that literally no outlet gave the Wii u the benefit of the doubt. Why do you think that was? Did Nintendo fail to make a payment or is it just that Nintendo has no influence to exert?

We had good discussions on this in the past with Shawn Elliot. Look for those threads. This outright paranoia about the media being bought off makes us look hysterical.

I think the Wii U not getting the same benefit of the doubt had more to do with the wind was completely out of the sails by the point it launched. A lot of people had stopped caring about the Wii, and the Wii from first announced to release didn't inspire a lot of chatter around the net.

So you could say it's influence, because there is a benefit for large sites to not alienate readers by fulling ripping into MS for the One's inferior hardware. There was no real fanbase to piss off by discounting the Wii U almost entirely.

So it's probably a bit of not wanting to seemingly take a real side in the Console Wars debate and to ignite that on their site as being Pro-Sony or Pro-MS. Gaming isn't big enough to have a Fox News type of site that doesn't really hide it's agenda.

Of course, it could be more innocent as well and Scheier is telling the truth that he doesn't want to declare a winner before we see the whole picture.

..probably a mix of both.

Here is a question I thought about just vaguely: how many reviewers pay for the Xbox live gold account they primarily game on? Is this publicly disclosed?

Does it really matter though? It's like the free games thing. On larger sites does it matter who paid for the game? The end result is that the reviewer himself isn't paying out of pocket no matter what. Either someone buys it with company money, or someone gave it to them... end result is really the same. The reviewer wouldn't be paying for Live or PSN or the game in any instance.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I think some of these issues is people expect too much out of the press.

I mean if you look at it like how I am you would not be shocked at the press.

 

[Chinner]

Here is a question I thought about just vaguely: how many reviewers pay for the Xbox live gold account they primarily game on? Is this publicly disclosed?

how much of anything gaming related is actually bought by the reviewer?

 

[Salaadin]

Here is a question I thought about just vaguely: how many reviewers pay for the Xbox live gold account they primarily game on? Is this publicly disclosed?

Made me think of E3 time when someone (was it Sessler?) compared the ps4 price to the XBO price, adding PS plus to the cost of the ps4 but ignoring the cost of XBL

 

[sol_bad]

Is that Alex from the Totally Rad Show?
Microsoft give him a free Gold account? He had no idea that people had to pay to play?
If he has always been given a free account (if it is Alex from TRS, gaming isn't his only hobby or his expertise) it's not his fault that he didn't know.

*EDIT*
Like I said, if it's Alex from TRS gaming isn't his forte and if he gets a free account there is absolutely no doubt that the proper gaming press at large will get free accounts.

 

[Tripon]

After thinking about it, maybe IGN has it right with assigning teams to each company. At least then you have people on each 'declared' side on the console wars. Nobody accuses Colin Morarity of being in MS' pocket for instance because he is assigned to cover the PS branch.

 

[SkullHydra]

I think some of these issues is people expect too much out of the press.

I mean if you look at it like how I am you would not be shocked at the press.

I don't think it's as much the fact that we're shocked, as it is that the gaming press is giving false equivalence to the consoles. $400-$500 is a lot of money. Those sites are supposed to inform the masses with accurate information about each system, not try to make them seem the same when there's an obvious difference.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Made me think of E3 time when someone (was it Sessler?) compared the ps4 price to the XBO price, adding PS plus to the cost of the ps4 but ignoring the cost of XBL

That's the idea in American journalism that you have to call it even and put two things up and act like they both have the same value. It's how Climate change is shown. Facts be damned things must appear equal.

 

[bigboss370]

After thinking about it, maybe IGN has it right with assigning teams to each company. At least then you have people on each 'declared' side on the console wars. Nobody accuses Colin Morarity of being in MS' pocket for instance because he is assigned to cover the PS branch.

yeah but that ps3 branch shits on ps3 all the time lol.

 

[Kagari]

Here is a question I thought about just vaguely: how many reviewers pay for the Xbox live gold account they primarily game on? Is this publicly disclosed?

In my experience, it's not uncommon for publishers/companies to pay for the subscription side of things.

 

[Y2Kev]

Does it really matter though? It's like the free games thing. On larger sites does it matter who paid for the game? The end result is that the reviewer himself isn't paying out of pocket no matter what. Either someone buys it with company money, or someone gave it to them... end result is really the same. The reviewer wouldn't be paying for Live or PSN or the game in any instance.

how much of anything gaming related is actually bought by the reviewer?

Made me think of E3 time when someone (was it Sessler?) compared the ps4 price to the XBO price, adding PS plus to the cost of the ps4 but ignoring the cost of XBL

Yeah, but I see a pretty clear difference between games owned by the media outlet vs. Microsoft/Sony comping people's personal subscription services.

I HOPE Microsoft/Sony is not gifting games to any one individual.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I don't think it's as much the fact that we're shocked, as it is that the gaming press is giving false equivalence to the consoles. $400-$500 is a lot of money. Those sites are supposed to inform the masses with accurate information about each system, not try to make them seem the same when there's an obvious difference.

I don't think they are giving the service you are looking for. I think you guys need to hold them as they are and then try to change them. But if you have people always going to those sites giving hits, the market can force them to change. The issue is people organizing and maintaining that change is difficult.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The article makes it sound like power is the only factor. For me it isn't even the most important factor. I'm not buying a next gen console for several reasons though. I'll revisit the decision in 6-12 months though. I know many ppl who feel the same and have cancelled whatever preorders they had. And the one or two that haven't cancelled are thinking about cancelling.

 

[Ateron]

Made me think of E3 time when someone (was it Sessler?) compared the ps4 price to the XBO price, adding PS plus to the cost of the ps4 but ignoring the cost of XBL

And no one called him out on that bs?

Thank god Gaf exists, that's the only "press" I need.

 

[fade_]

I don't think they are giving the service you are looking for. I think you guys need to hold them as they are and then try to change them. But if you have people always going to those sites giving hits, the market can force them to change. The issue is people organizing and maintaining that change is difficult.

Some sites I agree with but what about technical sites like arstechnica or sites that breathe on comparisons like this such as DF?

 

[Y2Kev]

I think the Wii U not getting the same benefit of the doubt had more to do with the wind was completely out of the sails by the point it launched. A lot of people had stopped caring about the Wii, and the Wii from first announced to release didn't inspire a lot of chatter around the net.

So you could say it's influence, because there is a benefit for large sites to not alienate readers by fulling ripping into MS for the One's inferior hardware. There was no real fanbase to piss off by discounting the Wii U almost entirely.

So it's probably a bit of not wanting to seemingly take a real side in the Console Wars debate and to ignite that on their site as being Pro-Sony or Pro-MS. Gaming isn't big enough to have a Fox News type of site that doesn't really hide it's agenda.

Of course, it could be more innocent as well and Scheier is telling the truth that he doesn't want to declare a winner before we see the whole picture.

..probably a mix of both.

Why does anyone "care" about anything? The news people in particular are supposed to be dispassionate. They act as filters and feed the public news that they feel is relevant to their interests, but I'm really hoping no news editors/directors are just pursuing stories they care about personally.

I genuinely believe Jason. I think he's one of the good ones.

I found this article on Kotaku Australia from last year: http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/11/ba...ready-hearing-complaints-about-wii-u-visuals/

Obviously no indictment of the team in the US, but the point is that nobody gave a shit when the Wii U was in the same position. And that was with launch tools and launch games.

 

[SkullHydra]

And no one called him out on that bs?

Thank god Gaf exists, that's the only "press" I need.

A lot of people called him out on it. It didn't do any good though.

 

[Chinner]

Yeah, but I see a pretty clear difference between games owned by the media outlet vs. Microsoft/Sony comping people's personal subscription services.

I HOPE Microsoft/Sony is not gifting games to any one individual.

to clarify I mean out side of reviewing and in regards to giving as you stuff.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

As for the power differences... I am interested in finding the truth, not participating in console wars. I don't want to jump to conclusions prematurely. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the PS4 is more powerful, but some developers both Stephen and I have spoken to believe that the power differences won't be all that significant long-term. I won't get further into this here (because I'm still in the process of reporting this stuff), but not everyone thinks that the PS4's power advantages will lead to significantly better-looking games.

I get that, and that's fine, but SOME sites, instead of reporting it how you just phrased it, they would report it as "PS4 weaker than Xbone? Devs speak out!" and try to throw things completely on their heads in order to sensationalize and get site hits.

I'm not accusing kotaku of this but when we start to see similar drama between sites and draw similarities between them and kotaku, it becomes hard for us to trust a site that might have good intentions with the investigation because the article makes us feel like we're being baited.

 

[NervousXtian]

Yeah, but I see a pretty clear difference between games owned by the media outlet vs. Microsoft/Sony comping people's personal subscription services.

I HOPE Microsoft/Sony is not gifting games to any one individual.

Well, if that media outlet was a singular person.. then probably. When I reviewed games.. admittedly a LONG time ago for a really small site all the games went to person who owned the site. He sent them out to us. They were his games, but he let us keep them or send them back if someone else wanted to play it. I wasn't paid, and my friend got me into it who lived by me.. but the other reviewers lived in other states.

Either way though, if say IGN was paying for someones Live account or MS footed the bill for their reviewers it's the same outcome. If the person left, they probably weren't going to have that account still paid for.

I don't pay for anything I use at my job, and if I don't pay it's paid back by the company tax-free. If my job was reviewing games I'd expect that everything would be provided by the company paying me, or reimbursed by the company paying me.

 

[Fornaximus]

It has seemed like the gaming media was in the tank for Microsoft this entire generation. E3 after E3 went by with Microsoft showing garbage Kinect material and Morgan Webb was the lone personality to just come out and say the EyeToy did the same crap a generation ago. Everyone else copy/pasted eachother's "THE FUTURE OF GAMING" blogs. The number of sites I regularly visit for gaming-related material has dwindled down drastically over the years because of these sorts of incidents. Can't trust anybody to give fair coverage. I'm not saying they're all on Microsoft's payroll, but there has to be some sort of fuckery afoot.

 

[Y2Kev]

Well, if that media outlet was a singular person.. then probably. When I reviewed games.. admittedly a LONG time ago for a really small site all the games went to person who owned the site. He sent them out to us. They were his games, but he let us keep them or send them back if someone else wanted to play it. I wasn't paid, and my friend got me into it who lived by me.. but the other reviewers lived in other states.

Either way though, if say IGN was paying for someones Live account or MS footed the bill for their reviewers it's the same outcome. If the person left, they probably weren't going to have that account still paid for.

I don't pay for anything I use at my job, and if I don't pay it's paid back by the company tax-free. If my job was reviewing games I'd expect that everything would be provided by the company paying me, or reimbursed by the company paying me.

But you don't need Gold for free on your PERSONAL account. You do your work at work or you use your work account at home.

 

[Curufinwe]

I've said this before on NeoGAF, but I think the big question is, why does that resolution difference exist? If the answer is "because the Xbox can't hit that," that's a huge concern. If the answer is that Infinity Ward got their devtools late, then that's significantly less of a concern. I'm not going to tell you not to care about resolution differences, but I'm much more interested in the big picture. I have no plans to buy either console at launch, anyway. (When people ask me what system they should buy this fall, I tell them 3DS.)

You keep asking this question like it hasn't been common knowledge for most of this year that the PS4 had a better GPU and faster RAM. Unless you have some reason to think Sony wont improve their dev tools as Microsoft improves their's, the performance gap is not going away and may even get wider due to GPGPU. MS decided to go with 8 GB of DDR3 RAM long ago, which necessitated including ESRAM to deal with the slowness of DDR3, which meant they had less space in their machine for a quality GPU. This is why the PS4's GPU has more of everything that developers need.

If writing that story is too difficult, maybe just start trying to find out where the Xbone version of AC4 is hiding.

 

[Kosma]

That wouldnt even be allowed where I work, you cant accept ANY personal gifts from clients.

This is how it is with many companies I work with too, employees cant accept any incentives personally, everything must go through the company.

This is bribery.

This is why a company like Shell could pay for an ad in a paper, but if they pay the gas bill of one of the reporters directly it would be kind of wonky no?

 

[Tripon]

It was weird how Sessler acknowledges the GoW:Ascension trophy scandal, but not his math error over the prices of the two consoles.

BTW, nobody has to play MP. I hope more devs realize that bad MP can help sink your game.

 

[CrisKre]

I don't like xbox one but this article is reaching.
It's about feature set and games.
Where was the outrage when the Gamecube was more powerful than the ps2 and selling for $99?

The differences need to be mentioned to inform the consumers, but as to what system is the better purchase, that's, well, subjective. And in the big scheme of things resolution is the least of the issues for most people in the real world.

 

[DJ12]

Journalists will keep drinking the cool-aid as long as Microsoft keep paying for it to be delivered.

Anyone seriously thinking ESRAM is CELL like in it's complexity and in 3 years will somehow manage to make a game that looks as good as a similar game on PS4 is deluded.

Any devs that say their isn't much difference in their game, has aimed for the xbox and held back on the PS4.

 

[Kosma]

I don't like xbox one but this article is reaching.
It's about feature set and games.
Where was the outrage when the Gamecube was more powerful than the ps2 and selling for $99?

That is a very different situation because by then gcn was dead and ps2 had tons of more games.

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't like xbox one but this article is reaching.
It's about feature set and games.
Where was the outrage when the Gamecube was more powerful than the ps2 and selling for $99?

The differences need to be mentioned to inform the consumers, but as to what system is the better purchase, that's, well, subjective. And in the big scheme of things resolution is the least of the issues for most people in the real world.

Who is asking for anyone to run a story about which is the better system to purchase? I don't think you've really read what people are saying.

 

[Fistwell]

I think some of these issues is people expect too much out of the press.

I expect nothing. They're still coming short.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Honestly wow at Gametrailers Top 5 PS4 FUD video.

Fucking hell, this is what its come to.

 

[CrisKre]

That is a very different situation because by then gcn was dead and ps2 had tons of more games.

People can compare games fine between xbone and ps4, if that's what they are basing their purchase on. Also, gcn want dead when it dropped to $99. Not at that point.
The information about the power difference is well documented for any consumer that wants to make an informed decision. The feature set and how both companies balanced power and features was managed differently. Microsoft went with lower power and kinect. It is not necessarily a worse balance. Some consumers may prefer it to ps4.

 

[CrisKre]

Who is asking for anyone to run a story about which is the better system to purchase? I don't think you've really read what people are saying.

I have. The thing is the difference in power is not even remotely a consideration for me when choosing between ps4 and xbone, so as I see the other side of this arguments I don't feel someone lacks journalistic integrity for staying as much.

 

[NervousXtian]

But you don't need Gold for free on your PERSONAL account. You do your work at work or you use your work account at home.

I'm curious about it as well, but honestly it might be the only account they play with be it for work or personal use.

 

[Dragon]

I have. The thing is the difference in power is not even remotely a consideration for me when choosing between ps4 and xbone, so as I see the other side of this arguments I don't feel someone lacks journalistic integrity for staying as much.

Not really relevant though. Completely different topic.

 

[CrisKre]

Is it exclusives? If so, why are you buying any new console this year?

Who said I'm buying a new console this year? But yes. For me it's exclusives.

I was getting a ps4 but decided to hold off. Not enough games I want at launch (no games actually).

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I have. The thing is the difference in power is not even remotely a consideration for me when choosing between ps4 and xbone, so as I see the other side of this arguments I don't feel someone lacks journalistic integrity for staying as much.

Some of the journalists being discussed in this thread claimed that differences between 360 and PS3 titles was a huge difference, only now they are claiming it doesn't matter (even though the differences between PS4 and XB1 are much larger than 360/PS3 differences)

 

[CrisKre]

Some of the journalists being discussed in this thread claimed that differences between 360 and PS3 titles was a huge difference, only now they are claiming it doesn't matter (even though the differences between PS4 and XB1 are much larger than 360/PS3 differences)

Of course on a case to case basis there may be bias If that's the case, and what you describe is certainly not ok. I was solely commenting on the article. I stated as much upon my first post on the thread.

 

[koji kabuto]

And no one called him out on that bs?

Thank god Gaf exists, that's the only "press" I need.

I don't think he cares, At the end he is not directing his message to well informed gamers and gaf,Nope.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Of course on a case to case basis there may be bias If that's the case, and what you describe is certainly not ok. I was solely commenting on the article. I stated as much upon my first post on the thread.

Even in the case of the original article, multiplatform titles are what the average consumer is purchasing most of the time - the CoDs, Battlefields, Maddens of the world.

For these people, it should be made clear that they are going to be able to play the best versions of those games on the PS4 for $100 less instead of downplaying the difference as insignificant. I'm sorry but a 50-100% difference in resolution for major third party titles is not insignificant.

 

[CrisKre]

I agree is not insignificant to many. For many others, like me, it is. Trust me im not trying to be obtuse here. I do agree though that journalists should inform readers on the difference, and at least state that it MAY be significant to them. That would be more professional.
I do not agree with the tone of the article, and I certainly do not agree with comparing this situation with graphic cards and drawing parallels there. Hardware power is only one part of the equation, and a historically unimportant one at that.

 

[fade_]

I genuinely believe Jason. I think he's one of the good ones.

Compared to some of the others on kotaku I agree and I don't blame at all for coming and defending his site, especially cinemablends use of their article. I give credit to him for coming and apologizing about that whole 4chan fiasco as well.

I don't think MS is handing briefcases of cash to game media or anything silly like that but kotaku aside surely he can admit there has been a bias tilted towards the Xbox One considering the facts we all know as of now?

 

[disastermouse]

That's the idea in American journalism that you have to call it even and put two things up and act like they both have the same value. It's how Climate change is shown. Facts be damned things must appear equal.

The official term is 'false equivalency'.

 

[thepotatoman]

The Sessler video that people are talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2iVUMRD3A

To sum up the video:

• Microsoft didn't have a policy problem with DRM just a messaging problem (continued through most of the video)
• If you include playstation plus and playstation eye PS4 is actually more expensive then the Xbox one
• The "angry internet mob" changed XBO policies instead spending time on something more useful
• We don't have enough information about PS4 and Sony and is talking down from the ivory tower just like Microsoft is
• Sessler isn't a biased fanboy, but anyone criticizing him a very very sad fanboy that only derives his identity from the company he argues for

 

[FranXico]

The Sessler video that people are talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2iVUMRD3A

To sum up the video:

• Microsoft didn't have a policy problem with DRM just a messaging problem (continued through most of the video)
• If you include playstation plus and playstation eye PS4 is actually more expensive then the Xbox one
• The "angry internet mob" changed XBO policies instead spending time on something more useful
• We don't have enough information about PS4 and Sony and is talking down from the ivory tower just like Microsoft is
• Sessler isn't a biased fanboy, but anyone criticizing him a very very sad fanboy that only derives his identity from the company he argues for

And to think, how many people defend him...

 

[AlphaDump]

this is kind of infuriating.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's no wonder the general view of the gaming press is so negative when one of its biggest names puts out a shameless fud piece like that video.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

Some of the journalists being discussed in this thread claimed that differences between 360 and PS3 titles was a huge difference, only now they are claiming it doesn't matter (even though the differences between PS4 and XB1 are much larger than 360/PS3 differences)

I'd argue that significantly worse performance, textures, and effects at the same resolution (like many PS3 ports) is actually worse than dropping from 1080p to 720p and maintaining the same performance, textures, and effects.

Especially frame rate.

You can use percentages all you want to make your point seem more impressive, but in practice and in most situations, it's not going to look "100%" different. What WOULD make the Xbox One versions look a lot different is if they ran at significantly worse frame rates.

With that said, I'm sticking with PS4 versions to start with because I tend to sit right on top of my 52" Sammy and I'll have both, so why not?

 

[Fornaximus]

This is pretty old, right? I think this was the last time I watched a show on GT. If it wasn't this one, it was another one with him.

 

[bigboss370]

The Sessler video that people are talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2iVUMRD3A

To sum up the video:

• Microsoft didn't have a policy problem with DRM just a messaging problem (continued through most of the video)
• If you include playstation plus and playstation eye PS4 is actually more expensive then the Xbox one
• The "angry internet mob" changed XBO policies instead spending time on something more useful
• We don't have enough information about PS4 and Sony and is talking down from the ivory tower just like Microsoft is
• Sessler isn't a biased fanboy, but anyone criticizing him a very very sad fanboy that only derives his identity from the company he argues for

yeah this was about the time I lost respect for Sess, and stopped watching his videos entirely, even unsubscribing from Rev3.