The Legend of Korra: Book Two – Spirits |OT| Korra Ain't Number Wan

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Veelk said:
And I really wish this conspiracy theory that we hate LoK for not being a copy and paste job of TLA would stop. Many fans have written things extensive explanations for why Korra isn't that good, either as a successor of TLA or as it's own show. We do give credit where its' due, but the problem is there isn't much due credit to give.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, but stop trying to stop our own outpour of opinions just because they disagree with yours.
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This. I'm not even a fan of ATLA, but I consider that show well done.

I'm not criticizing Korra for not being ATLA 2.0 in terms of plot. I am criticizing Korra for handling characters terribly and having a nonsensical plot. Yes, ATLA comparisons are to be expected, but the comparisons aren't about how "why Bolin isn't Sokka 2.0" or "why Korra isn't Aang 2.0". The comparisons are more about "why is Bolin a generic comic relief" or "why is Korra a bland, shallow protagonist".
 
I find it criminal though that people say LoK is "the only good cartoon out there". Apparently TMNT2013 doesn't exist. Sure it's no TMNT2k3 but it's also good (hell, I'd say it's better than LoK).
 
Young Justice was another show that handled characters and plot way better than Korra and even that show had problems. Korra is just not good. It has fundamental pacing and writing issues.
 
Tuck said:
Not reading through the thread (I'm done talking about season 2, at least for a while...), so I don't know if this has been posted - probably was.

WSJ Interview Part 2.
There’s also continuing interest in whomever Korra is dating. Diane Pangilinan ‏@twinklelydy asked “do u have any plans for developing Korra’s love life?”

Konietzko: It seems to me that people are uninterested in that. They get completely angry when we have fun with the teen romance stuff. I don’t know. I’m going to leave that alone
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He sounds kind of bitter about it, but maybe I'm just reading into it too much.
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Honestly, he probably reads more impressions/reactions on tumblr than it's healthy for any creator, and I wouldn't be surprised it that's where he both thought playing around with romance was a good, then a bad idea.

It may seem a little weird that people would be interested in a cartoon character’s dating habits, but I think some fans do really care.

Konietzko: This is my new theory. Fans are more interested in imagining relationships between a myriad of pairings. But they’re profoundly disinterested in seeing any of those things manifest themselves on the show. So who knows, whatever. Mike and I as writers, we wrote it the way we found it to be entertaining, and that struck a chord with some, but maybe not with some others.
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This is a bit of a disingenuous answer imo. I don't remember people having too many gripes with Aang and Katara (aside from character ages), or even Zuko and Mai. Most spectators don't mind seeing pairings manifest on shows as long as it isn't badly executed.
 
Boss Doggie said:
I find it criminal though that people say LoK is "the only good cartoon out there". Apparently TMNT2013 doesn't exist. Sure it's no TMNT2k3 but it's also good (hell, I'd say it's better than LoK).
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If LoK is the top of the current barrel for cartoons on TV, that says much more about the rest of TV than it does about Korra.

And I'm saying all this as someone who thinks S2 ended not terribly badly.

Fuu said:
Honestly, he probably reads more impressions/reaction on tumblr than it's healthy for any creator, and I wouldn't be surprised it that where he both thought playing around with romance was a good, then a bad idea.


This is a bit of a disingenuous answer imo. I don't remember people having too many gripes with Aang and Katara (aside from character ages), or even Zuko and Mai. Most spectators don't mind seeing pairings manifest on shows as long as it isn't badly executed.
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I think the problem is more the triangles than the relationships. No one loses when an obvious couple evolves in a show, but when people get invested in a character it makes them feel negative emotions when their favourite character gets spurned. ATLA was largely lacking in triangles, and the ones that did exist lasted for one episode and were with minor characters who went away.
 
Mariolee said:
Ok, even I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Objectively speaking Korra does deal with all of those topics. Subjectively speaking, it doesn't deal with them as well as it could have.
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Even doing so much as implying that korra invented the animated drama genre is objectively wrong considering anime has been around decades longer than this show and its predecessor

There is nothing subjective about that point. It is objectively false.
 
Mariolee said:
Just a reminder that there are those of us who want to be positive and love the show, and that's why we're so hard on it. We give credit where credit is due because we want to see this show succeed, but when it missteps we criticize it in hopes that somehow someway someone catches wind of our opinions, or perhaps more realistically the collective opinion of multiple sites including NeoGAF, Tumblr, Twitter, or whathaveyou, and that it will improve the next season.

No need to act as if criticizing the show should be considered as disgusting.
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There's a difference between criticizing what deserves to be criticized and shit like this:

Grakl said:
The Legend of Korra: Book Three |OT| Lets Pretend Book Two and One Didn't Happen, Ok Guys?
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-Deimos said:
How many drugs did that guy take before writing that article?

Book 3: Change |OT| Because the last season just wasn't cutting it.
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Perfect Cha0s said:
I like this, but maybe something like:

The Legend of Korra - Book Three: Change |OT| ...the Channel
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BigBadGiantHand said:
The Legend of Korra: Book Three |OT| Lets Pretend Book Two Didn't Happen, Ok Guys?
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Those are just jokes, not serious criticisms.

Stop being this guy:

a.aaa-No-fun-allowed..jpg



You don't even have it the worst. Try being a fan of RWBY and dealing with the (mostly correct) negativity there.
:(
 
Veelk said:
Those are just jokes, not serious criticisms.

Stop being this guy:

a.aaa-No-fun-allowed..jpg



You don't even have it the worst. Try being a fan of RWBY and dealing with the (mostly correct) negativity there.
:(
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Yes Veelk, I know they are jokes. But they are jokes that ultimately reflect the opinions of many people in the thread.

And its easy to say its just for fun but if you can't see how someone who actually likes the show would not be bothered by it, or how stuff like that does nothing to deflect the criticism that KorraGAF is a steaming pile of negativity, well i don't know what to say to you.

Honestly, I don't care that much. Everyone, as always, is entitled to their opinion on the show. I've stated this numerous times. But I don't think that criticism is so easy to deflect anymore. This thread is significantly skewed to the negative.
 
Omikaru said:
I may be jumping the gun a bit, but I had a brain wave about what the Book Three OT could be called.

The Legend of Korra: Book Three |OT| We Are Open To The Greatest Change

:D
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The Legend of Korra: Book Three – Change |OT| But not really

I did enjoy both Book 1 & 2
 
maharg said:
If LoK is the top of the current barrel for cartoons on TV, that says much more about the rest of TV than it does about Korra.

And I'm saying all this as someone who thinks S2 ended not terribly badly.
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Eh more like assumed quality. They probably don't care to watch TMNT2013 or hell, maybe the occasional Gravity Falls or Regular Show episode.
 
Tuck said:
Yes Veelk, I know they are jokes. But they are jokes that ultimately reflect the opinions of many people in the thread.

And its easy to say its just for fun but if you can't see how someone who actually likes the show would not be bothered by it, or how stuff like that does nothing to deflect the criticism that KorraGAF is a steaming pile of negativity, well i don't know what to say to you.

Honestly, I don't care that much. Everyone, as always, is entitled to their opinion on the show. I've stated this numerous times. But I don't think that criticism is so easy to deflect anymore. This thread is significantly skewed to the negative.
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Of course the joke reflects the opinion of many people in the thread. That's the point.

You might be right if those jokes were all people ever did, but BBGH and probably the others if I went back and searched their posts, they all made in depth explanations for why they feel the way they feel. They earned the right to make some one off posts about how the show sucks in a humorous manner, because not every post has to be a giant wall of text, which you'd probably complain about if it was.

You keep complaining about how this thread is a steaming pile of negativity, but I'm left wondering "Why shouldn't it be?". If you have a something to be positive about, please share some of that positivity. I don't mean defending the show either. Because defending means trying to deconstruct our posts, which, by and large, won't work. Instead, try talking about what the show does right. What positive lessons it teaches us as viewers or something. That's how you get the positivity in here. Because merely us not talking about the multitude of things the show does wrong wouldn't result in a positive thread. It'd result in a dead thread.

So come on. Bring on the positivity if you have it. But keep in mind that this show isn't about you or any fan of LoK. It's about LoK. Whatever reaction that brings us is valid, positive or negative.
 
One of the biggest problems I had with the slower republic city scenes is that, if you take the events that take place at face value, Lynn is the worst police commish ever. It takes all of her hands on, nose to the dirt, take no prisoners attitude from the first book and literally throws it all away so she can be a lazy, inattentive pencil pusher. The two crooked detectives weren't exactly the pink panther, and given her nature as shown in the first book, there's no reason why she couldn't have at least gone with Mako on the sting operation, even if she didn't authorize official police presence.

Considering how clever Verrik is, it would have been far more interesting if all the evidence did point straight at Mako, even with the police right next to him to make his two nights in jail more believable.
 
Veelk said:
Of course the joke reflects the opinion of many people in the thread. That's the point.

You might be right if those jokes were all people ever did, but BBGH and probably the others if I went back and searched their posts, they all made in depth explanations for why they feel the way they feel. They earned the right to make some one off posts about how the show sucks in a humorous manner, because not every post has to be a giant wall of text, which you'd probably complain about if it was.

You keep complaining about how this thread is a steaming pile of negativity, but I'm left wondering "Why shouldn't it be?". If you have a something to be positive about, please share some of that positivity. I don't mean defending the show either. Because defending means trying to deconstruct our posts, which, by and large, won't work. Instead, try talking about what the show does right. What positive lessons it teaches us as viewers or something. That's how you get the positivity in here. Because merely us not talking about the multitude of things the show does wrong wouldn't result in a positive thread. It'd result in a dead thread.

So come on. Bring on the positivity if you have it. But keep in mind that this show isn't about you or any fan of LoK. It's about LoK. Whatever reaction that brings us is valid, positive or negative.
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I tried. Or... at least I think I did. I'm the third highest poster in the thread, I've given my fair share on positives, and negatives. I've defended the show plenty. And I've criticized the show plenty. But the negatives always ended up drowning out the positives in the discussion. Especially when posters take the attitude of:

I don't mean defending the show either. Because defending means trying to deconstruct our posts, which, by and large, won't work
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I don't think the Korra community is as down on the show as you think. I just think the people who like the show have been scared off from this thread. For instance, me (And the poster I agreed with earlier which started this whole argument). I said I was going to stop discussing Korra because it was bumming me out - I only came into this thread to post that interview, which I found interesting and ended up agreeing with another poster about the negativity. Ultimately, I regret that decision now - I'll just wait for the book 3 thread.

Even so, your post was pretty persuasive, and I will agree that you are right - those people do get to make jokes. They're expressed their opinions well enough. And if GAF thinks the show sucks then obviously the thread will be negative. But just as it gets tiring going into a Nintendo thread and seeing all those "Nintendoomed" posts, so too does reading about how much people think this show sucks.

Whatever.
 
Veelk said:
Of course the joke reflects the opinion of many people in the thread. That's the point.

You might be right if those jokes were all people ever did, but BBGH and probably the others if I went back and searched their posts, they all made in depth explanations for why they feel the way they feel. They earned the right to make some one off posts about how the show sucks in a humorous manner, because not every post has to be a giant wall of text, which you'd probably complain about if it was.

You keep complaining about how this thread is a steaming pile of negativity, but I'm left wondering "Why shouldn't it be?". If you have a something to be positive about, please share some of that positivity. I don't mean defending the show either. Because defending means trying to deconstruct our posts, which, by and large, won't work. Instead, try talking about what the show does right. What positive lessons it teaches us as viewers or something. That's how you get the positivity in here. Because merely us not talking about the multitude of things the show does wrong wouldn't result in a positive thread. It'd result in a dead thread.

So come on. Bring on the positivity if you have it. But keep in mind that this show isn't about you or any fan of LoK. It's about LoK. Whatever reaction that brings us is valid, positive or negative.
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The people here who are negative really hate the show. They go over minutiae of each episode criticizing each supposed misstep. The silent positive people don't feel as strongly about the show (it's enjoyable but not perfect). I have no desire to engage people who desperately think LoK is shit when there is no common ground for responding to the show; I mean some posters here think that republic city, modern tech meets bending, is a completely stupid idea and show never be attempted, like wtf how does one post positive posts in that context? You say add positive posts in a vacuum as if negative posters don't respond. *shrug*

Anyway, my two cents:
love LoK,
both seasons have tackled really interesting issues,
the romance started out irritating but I've watched it grow into something more sophisticated that puppy love in AtlA,
the LoK cast of characters continue to be built up nicely, good the exploration of Aang's children and grandchildren this season
 
Can someone explain to me what exactly Jinora did to make Rava appear? It seemed like some painfully contrived thing and I'm wondering if there is a more legitimate explanation... I mean what was her connection in all this? I like Jinora, it would be cool if she had some spiritual gift... but what is it/what does it do and why does she have it?
 
televator said:
Can someone explain to me what exactly Jinora did to make Rava appear? It seemed like some painfully contrived thing and I'm wondering if there is a more legitimate explanation... I mean what was her connection in all this? I like Jinora, it would be cool if she had some spiritual gift... but what is it/what does it do and why does she have it?
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She is in tune with spiritual energy, way more then any other character in the show. It's a natural gift so why she has it is irrelevant. It looked like she managed to find some of the light of Rava which triggered it to form in the dark sprit because when one wins the defeated sprit just slowly grows in the victor.
 
So were back to the "people only hate it because its not a copy of ATLA" horseshit

Really?


Veelk said:
Of course the joke reflects the opinion of many people in the thread. That's the point.

You might be right if those jokes were all people ever did, but BBGH and probably the others if I went back and searched their posts, they all made in depth explanations for why they feel the way they feel. They earned the right to make some one off posts about how the show sucks in a humorous manner, because not every post has to be a giant wall of text, which you'd probably complain about if it was.

You keep complaining about how this thread is a steaming pile of negativity, but I'm left wondering "Why shouldn't it be?". If you have a something to be positive about, please share some of that positivity. I don't mean defending the show either. Because defending means trying to deconstruct our posts, which, by and large, won't work. Instead, try talking about what the show does right. What positive lessons it teaches us as viewers or something. That's how you get the positivity in here. Because merely us not talking about the multitude of things the show does wrong wouldn't result in a positive thread. It'd result in a dead thread.

So come on. Bring on the positivity if you have it. But keep in mind that this show isn't about you or any fan of LoK. It's about LoK. Whatever reaction that brings us is valid, positive or negative.
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+1
 
Goliath said:
She is in tune with spiritual energy, way more then any other character in the show. It's a natural gift so why she has it is irrelevant. It looked like she managed to find some of the light of Rava which triggered it to form in the dark sprit because when one wins the defeated sprit just slowly grows in the victor.
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They've already said that Unalaq and Vatu are gone for as long as the series is concerned, but someone could in theory extract Rava from Korra, then pull out Vatuu. Too bad they aren't even considering that.
 
We're not even "criticizing every misstep". It's just really jarring. Are people really saying that Lin Beifong suddenly becoming incompetent - the female police officer who went against the rules in Book 1 to root out a crook - isn't a minor problem?

It's not "scanning every minutiae and hoping for the show to be bad" when the show really does it.

Greyface said:
sophisticated compared to in love with moon spirit or
aang, katara, zuko triangle
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wat

There was never a love triangle. Only shippers think of that.

As for the "sophisticated" love... If anything, the way they handled "romance" in Sokka and Yue was much better because it was toned down, more inferred (via dialog and short moments) than outright shown (see Korra and Mako), and is based on character rather than outright "here are two characters doing romance things" as though they were catering towards the audience.
 
Greyface said:
sophisticated compared to in love with moon spirit or


aang, katara, zuko triangle
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What. WHAT.

Zuko NEVER had feelings for Katara, and vice versa.

It was clear as day from the first episode that Katara/Aang was the endgame. Only retarded Zutara shippers thought otherwise. Which is why we got Makorra.
 
I don't think the romance was handled too poorly except that it just took up too much time in season 1. In season 2 Bolin/Eska was pretty bad, and kept happening for no apparent reason especially in the last few episodes.
 
I just finished the last four episodes of season 2. Uh, that was...something, I guess? I liked parts of it. The fights scenes were excellent, as usual. But there were so many cringes and face palms. Dark avatar? Really? I thought at the beginning they were going to try to make the villain at least a little grey. And what the fuck at the giant spirit Korra vs Dark Avatar fight in Republic City bay. Is this fucking power rangers? Not to mention all of the obvious plot hole/deus ex machina moments coming out of nowhere and never being explained like whatever it was Jinora was doing at the final fight. I don't know, there was definitely stuff going on that I liked and found interesting, but the whole story just felt like a big disorganized mess.

Season 2 is definitely worse than season 1, imo. I actually think season 1 was pretty good, it just fell short of what it could have been. I'm not even sure I'm ready to say season 2 is good. It's not really bad, but I'm uncomfortable with how many times I've literally rolled my eyes at major plot points. At least we got the two Wan episodes. That's the only thing to come out of Korra that's as good as TLA.
 
rexor0717 said:
I don't think the romance was handled too poorly except that it just took up too much time in season 1. In season 2 Bolin/Eska was pretty bad, and kept happening for no apparent reason especially in the last few episodes.
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the Bolin/Eska thing was very anime-ish, but I didn't mind it too much
 
TacticalFox88 said:
What. WHAT.

Zuko NEVER had feelings for Katara, and vice versa.

It was clear as day from the first episode that Katara/Aang was the endgame. Only retarded Zutara shippers thought otherwise. Which is why we got Makorra.
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Funny enough, despite the truthfulness of this, I still feel that Zutara would have more legitimacy than Makorra does. The magic of well rounded characters, I guess.
 
Veelk said:
I believe it's referred to as Kataang
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Hehe, i don´t remember shipping names :D
TacticalFox88 said:
You're confusing "interesting" with "legitimate".
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Nope legitimate is right. I felt that Katara was like Aang´s older sister for most of the show if not all. The only moment that i thought she would have romantic feeling for Aang was when they pretended to be fire nation kids. Honestly Katara barely if at all showed any interest in Aang as far as i remember.

While Zutara, had several moments that got them really close together. The ending of the first season when they were both beside the lake, the raiders in the third season, and of course their fight against Azula.

At least that how i saw the romance in ATLA.
 
Zuko was trying to kidnap Aang at the end of the first season by the Koi pond. Katara was trying to protect Aang. That was a romantic moment? Or are you referring to the time where he threatened her and offered to trade Aang for her mother's necklace?

The Southern Raiders was Zuko trying to get in Katara's good graces after hanging with everyone else. He needed to do this because Katara had threatened to kill him, and had consistently sniped and insulted him since joining. He did this by enabling Katara in her revenge scheme, which was wrong.

Zuko saving Katara was his final act of redemption and friendship, something to contrast him and Azula. Azula was alone, Zuko had a friend, one that had been completely antagonistic with him for most of the series. Someone with friends is more powerful than someone who is alone and closed off.

The one time there was ever a chance for Zuko and Katara, was when they bonded over their lost mothers in the caves. Zuko kind of blew it though by, yknow, helping Azula KILL Aang.

Meanwhile Aang has always represented hope for Katara. Hope to leave her village, hope to explore the world, hope to learn water bending, and hope to end the war. She's had an attachment to Aang since the very beginning, and the first instances of her feelings were on Kyoshi Island when she began to feel jealousy over the other girls giving Aang attention. Then we have the fortune teller which laid her romantic fortune to marry a powerful bender, the cave of two lovers, her always being the one to be able to calm him down. It's a very simplistic romance between the two, and was always understated from her side, but it's always been there, much more so than with Zuko.
 
Crewnh said:
Zuko was trying to kidnap Aang at the end of the first season by the Koi pond. Katara was trying to protect Aang. That was a romantic moment? Or are you referring to the time where he threatened her and offered to trade Aang for her mother's necklace?

The Southern Raiders was Zuko trying to get in Katara's good graces after hanging with everyone else. He needed to do this because Katara had threatened to kill him, and had consistently sniped and insulted him since joining. He did this by enabling Katara in her revenge scheme, which was wrong.

Zuko saving Katara was his final act of redemption and friendship, something to contrast him and Azula. Azula was alone, Zuko had a friend, one that had been completely antagonistic with him for most of the series. Someone with friends is more powerful than someone who is alone and closed off.

The one time there was ever a chance for Zuko and Katara, was when they bonded over their lost mothers in the caves. Zuko kind of blew it though by, yknow, helping Azula KILL Aang.

Meanwhile Aang has always represented hope for Katara. Hope to leave her village, hope to explore the world, hope to learn water bending, and hope to end the war. She's had an attachment to Aang since the very beginning, and the first instances of her feelings were on Kyoshi Island when she began to feel jealousy over the other girls giving Aang attention. Then we have the fortune teller which laid her romantic fortune to marry a powerful bender, the cave of two lovers, her always being the one to be able to calm him down. It's a very simplistic romance between the two, and was always understated from her side, but it's always been there, much more so than with Zuko.
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It always baffles me that with even with shows with blatant ship tease, some people will dismiss it in favor of evidence of their favorite pairing.

Naruto is probably the best example of this by far
 
Veelk said:
By which you mean you block out large segments of the show like "The Fortuneteller" and "The Cave of Two Lovers" that explicitly deal with Katara's attraction to Aang? Yup, we got a Zutara shipper here alright.
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I don´t care about shipping i just thought that the connection between Zuko and Katara were deeper than Aang and Katara. The same fortuneteller episode where Katara compares Aang to Momo and told him that he is a good friend.
 
Phoenician_Viking said:
I don´t care about shipping i just thought that the connection between Zuko and Katara were deeper than Aang and Katara. The same fortuneteller episode where Katara compares Aang to Momo and told him that he is a good friend.
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...and at the end had her realizing his potential as a romantic partner. That was literally the entire point of the episode, that Katara see him as more than a friend for the first time.

Like I said, it's easy to think the connection between Zuko and Katara is stronger when you ignore evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying you can't be a Zutara shipper - because shipping is as much about potential matches as actual ones - but you just haven't been paying attention if you think there are more Zutara moments in the actual series than Kataang. Especially when one of the Zutara moments you cite are Zuko threatening Katara to hand over Aang's body. Romantic.

TacticalFox88 said:
It always baffles me that with even with shows with blatant ship tease, some people will dismiss it in favor of evidence of their favorite pairing.

Naruto is probably the best example of this by far
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I have absolutely no problem with that, btw. Some pairings can work together and there is nothing that says that the pair you ship has to be canon. You could just relate to the relationship or find the character dynamic interesting. Which is why I ship Azula-Aang as my OTP. And on Naruto, I think Hinata and Sasuke would have probably had a lot to relate by each other. Before Sasuke went batshit insane anyway, shortly followed by the series itself. But I would never pretend the series itself is supporting the shipping I support, if that's what you mean.
 
Shipping creeps me out and is really not my thing, but I will say for my 2 pence I found Zuko and Katara a more credible couple than Aang and Katara. Zuko and Katara felt 'natural' whereas Aang and Katara felt more as though the creators just wanted to put male lead and female together because reasons. Having said that, the reason I thought it was more natural was because it was more subtle, so I may just have been reading into what wasn't there. Either way, I don't think it impacted my perception of A:tLA particularly. I don't see why you'd obsess about who got with who, at the end of the day they're fictional characters.
 
Oh, shoot me.

Zutara was always a crack ship and an unintentional side effect of simply having a teenage boy and girl in the same show. Kataang was intended from the beginning, but apparently its subtlety (outside of Fortuneteller and Cave) flew over heads and some people thought this was going to be a "girls love bad boys" story despite there being zero indication of the two so much as liking each other until the end of season two... long after it was shown how much Katara and Aang cared for each other.

But when you have a group of fans that are obsessed with a ship, they will take ANYTHING as evidence of that ship being canon. You know "The Earth King", where Zuko was having nightmares? There was a flower pot in that room with red and blue flowers in it. That was definitive proof of Zutara. The fact that Aang and Katara kissed was just a red herring.

What's that? Aang and Katara got married, had kids, and a lifetime of love? Well, now Katara and Zuko are two of the only ones still alive. That must mean they're going to hook up and confess that they always loved each other in LOK.
 
Kangi said:
What's that? Aang and Katara got married, had kids, and a lifetime of love? Well, now Katara and Zuko are two of the only ones still alive. That must mean they're going to hook up and confess that they always loved each other in LOK.
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I agree with your point in general, but that's perhaps a bad example because this is Legend of Korra. That's entirely within the realm of possibility of happening.
 
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