Are you afraid of hamsters? Because one night all the world's hamsters might invade your room to smother you in your sleep. That's about as likely as them making Beck female. It's very obviously fanart / cosplay. Stop being silly about it.
Mighty No.9 Kickstarter (PS4/XB1 & Vita/3DS are GO!) (Inafune/IC, $4M FUNDED)
- Thread starter Busaiku
- Start date
theSlacker
Member
Why do we need to give them so much attention? Because what they say is offensive and wrong? People say and do stupid shit every day, and do so loudly, so why do all legitimate concerns about something disappear just as soon as other people say something sexist? Why can't I not like her design and hope that she doesn't have any actual creative influence on the game even if I do think it would be cool if Call had an extended roll in the game
see what I did there?
Juliet's 8½ Spirits
Banned
Panic over what? Tweets that would provide evidence to her lying as the community manager? or tweets that would make it clear that she was brought onto the project out of nepotism? Yea, I guess that would be pretty scary, poor her.
You're trying to apply logical reasons to panic? Really? If you put your hand on a hot stove and get burned, you pull away. It's not something you reason out. She wrote some tweets, got hate in response, deleted tweets. Was it the best thing to do? No, but people don't always do the best things in that sort of situation.Juliet's 8½ Spirits;93438310 said:
Exactly the bolded part. People lie all the time, but when someone is put into a position of public representation, you are now accountable for your lies as a public figure. That's just how PR works.
I really don't care about the "omg she's a feminist!!" stuff (though I do think her artwork is horrid, regardless of gender), but this just reeks of unprofessionalism. Getting caught in a lie as a PR person, doing a very bad job of managing the fallout from that, and admitting that you only got the job because your pal was on the team does not exactly inspire confidence. PR people in other companies have been fired for less.
Straw-manning this issue into "feminists versus MRAs" is a great way of quashing legitimate concerns about it that have nothing to do with those, by the way.
Dark Octave
Banned
As a designer, she has influence over the design and look of the game. I just hope she is a good enough artist to be able to flow into the already established art style.
I get Megaman 1 box art vibes when I look at that fan art.
This is "girls don't know anything about videogames" bullshit sexism at its worst. It's MEGAMAN, not a PhD. If she doesn't already know, she can take all of 5 minutes to learn that the games have 8 bosses you take powers from and the powers cancel each other out, and there are scientists, an evil scientist, and a blonde girl and a red robot dog and a rival robot who has a scarf. That's the entirety of relevant Megaman information. It's not a PhD's worth of information that you need to carefully consider.
She's not the only art person in the game, certainly not a senior one, and it's very likely that anything she draws will be redrawn by the lead artists to be consistent with the style of the game anyway. Just because someone creates one drawing of something that doesn't look like anime doesn't mean the game has been completely ruined. Be scared at actual scary things in the world.
Juliet's 8½ Spirits;93437473 said:
Or a connection, like how many people get jobs. "Nepotism" implies a person high in the chain of power brought her in, which is very unlikely.
It's not a strawman when one of the biggest things pushing this argument along is a 20 minute video on Youtube lambasting the girl for having a feminist agenda, by a clearly MRA type of guy (judging from the other videos on his account)
She isn't the lead designer. If the lead designer doesn't feel her designs mesh with the game or are just plain bad, they're not going in the game. That's the end of it.
Dark Octave
Banned
That's what we can hope for anyway.
Shadow Choke
Banned
Her being a feminist means jack shit to me. I've supported two kick starters: Mighty No 9 and 7 days to die, the latter of which has a female main character!
Dina is dishonest, she was caught in a lie as a PR person and tried to cover her tracks, her first day on the job! This is the main issue... That, and her horrid femBeck rendering, of course.
Dina is dishonest, she was caught in a lie as a PR person and tried to cover her tracks, her first day on the job! This is the main issue... That, and her horrid femBeck rendering, of course.
Letterbomb
Banned
Can't wait to get this thing on 3DS. Very happy that they got the funded they needed, and then some! Great stuff. Any idea on when we should be expecting this?
Save your hopes for winning the lottery. The odds are better.
Juliet's 8½ Spirits
Banned
Jobs which they are at least somewhat qualified for. This was a publicly funding game, with one of the premises of funding being:
Hiring her as a designer on the game is going completely against what their product pitch was, which is the issue I have here. It isn't about her being a feminist, its about her not being qualified to be a part of this development team. A dev team who is working on a project which was publicly funding. If Inafune had funding this project himself no one would question this even in the slightest (maybe some would). Also, she had a best friend working on the project, and he/she is obviously high enough that he got her an employment opportunity (something which she herself admitted).
Stopped reading there. You're devaluing critical information to make a point. Having knowledge critical to your job is important, and you're acting as if I'm on some sort of women hating agenda.
Loads of women make games I fucking love. Amy Hennig the Legacy of Kain series one of my favorites, Kim Swift on Narbacular Drop/Portal brought seamless portals to games (hell, I literally couldn't play pre-release Portal imitation mods before release because they were glorified teleports. In portal you could go half in half between portals.), and Mari Shimazaki's influence on Bayonetta made one of the best original characters this generation.
Not every woman in the video game industry is a Picasso of their art being hampered by sexism. It definitely happens, and your crying of wolf makes it harder in actual cases to actually be noticed. Just because someone is a woman, doesn't mean they can't be bad at their jobs.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Oh, no you misunderstand me man, you can have all those things. My beef is with the sexist assholes.
For the record, I don't think that drawing is very good...but it's fan art. I've drawn some pretty bad fan art in my day and like to think it's not a reason to get crucified. Besides the fact that it's clearly her face and everyone is basically going "omg hideous" just makes it...awkward for me, I don't know.
On a more serious note, concept artists have wildly varying styles, some better than others. (For example, I actually think her drawing blows Inafune's Call concept out of the water
) This fear that she will somehow hijack the game's art style, which seems pretty finalized at this point, is just a little bizarre in my opinion...As for her being a uninitiated, I can understand the desire to want to have one of your own get the gig, but I certainly don't see it as a reason to get upset or demand a refund.
And yes I did see what you did there 
Rock on buddy.
Rock on buddy.1. I have no idea what video you are talking about.
2. I have a hard time taking you seriously when that's the only thing you respond to in my post.
theSlacker
Member
See how easy it is to completely disregard an argument by just calling it sexism. People aren't claiming she doesn't have that knowledge because "she is a gross girl, and girls don't know anything about video games". They are claiming it because it's what she fucking admitted. Not serious to you? That's fine. But for many people who backed this project solely because of it's connection to the MM franchise and how much of a tongue-in-cheek complete copy it is, right down to the themed naming conventions, it is pretty important how well versed in said series the people that are working on the game are.
Just because there are douchebag sexists who hate her only because of her views doesn't make every complaint sexist.
Juliet's 8½ Spirits;93439102 said:
You're basing this on one tweet where she said she's drawing robots? It says nothing about how the art will be used, especially considering the game is in 3D, so anything she draws already has to go through at least one filter when someone makes the 3D model, who may or may not be a coveted veteran Japanese game developer. Does every single person touching the project have to be a veteran Japanese game developer to fulfill your pledge?
It seems like a leap to judge someone's qualifications (and how they fit whatever Comcept was looking for) by surface details from sensationalized posts on Kickstarter and Twitter.
Kickstarter projects don't actually owe the pledging public any creative control. If they did, it would be a horrendous case of design by committee. You know, like Megaman Legends 3.
Juliet's 8½ Spirits
Banned
I love how you keep pulling shit out of your ass and playing it off as fact
also improper hire =/= nepotism, I hope you know the difference
You assuming that Megaman Legends 3 being cancelled was a personal fuck you to Inafune is laughable.
I agree with finch, the mob trying to sweep this under the rug is disgusting.
Im trying to figure out why is this an issue? I'm pretty sure others on the team will look at her work and give suggestions if they don't think the design works well enough with the game's look anyway. I doubt any of the assets that are already in the game would escape that process.
Exaggeration caused by the ugly design. It is mostly just the head, but man is that bad enough to ruin everything. Also the unnecessary wrench. Also the unnecessary genderswap.
Necromanti
Member
Could someone explain the controversy over a community manager? Forgive my ignorance. I've never taken forums or social media quite that seriously. There must be more to it.
It would have been a tempest for any Kickstarter, especially as people see this as THEIR money being spent on useless or outright counterproductive team members. But Mega Man fans see this as the last great hope and are on edge over ANYTHING that might mean a less-than-successful game. Which is one reason I actually do believe that people are trying to get chargebacks processed already. Many fans feel burned in the past, and don't want to be left holding the bag. Look at it this way: From their perspective its a bunch of friends that are hiring each other, some of which know nothing about Mega Man, don't care about Mega Man, and want to go in weird experimental directions and they see that as a problem that killed the franchise in the first place.
As i understand it...they're mad that she's never played a Mega Man game, lied about that, and then went around deleting tweets to cover up that lie. She was hired because of people she knew inside, not strictly because of merit. To Kickstarter backers, this reeks of an unfit hire, which equates to wasting "their" money.
She also designed some bots or something. After seeing her Beck-y fanart, the backers worried her designs will actually make it through and make the game crappy.
And my point, if you had not been so hasty to stop reading, is that the "critical information" is something that anyone can easily learn. "Knowing about videogames" is not a big deal, there are more valuable skills to have, and perhaps Comcept saw those skills and wanted her onboard. We certainly aren't going to know that from hearsay of what happened on Twitter. While I certainly don't know enough about her to judge her merits, I doubt anyone losing their shit over this is evaluating this person fairly- because how DARE she not know about videogames and how dare she call Megaman X her favorite Megaman game, everything she does is shit, rabble rabble.
My point was in response to people in this thread saying that she can't possibly be a community manager because she doesn't know anything about MM, because it's somehow not possible to learn the 10 relevant things about the series. If it was a guy, "videogame knowledge" probably wouldn't even be a question at all. There are male community managers and marketing types working in the gaming industry who NEVER get questioned on their gaming knowledge. But bring a girl around, and she suddenly has to be tested. Then bring up some of her feminist leanings? Oh hell no, the sky is falling, feminist agendas everywhere, I'm now disappointed in this game that I was super hyped for up until now. This entire thing is ridiculous.
That's not what I said at all.
theSlacker
Member
You are bringing her sex into it when it has no place and making baseless assumptions. Moreover you completely disregarded another posters point of view based only on that assumption. It wasn't used as a blanket statment that could have covered the actual douchebags who are being 100% sexist, you directly singled another person out that showed no sign of sexism. The people getting worked up about that point in particular would do the same for either sex since they backed this project under the assumption that...
That you do not find that as something that is important is irrelevant. As I have said several times, the funding for this game was driven primarily by its direct connection to the MM franchise.
Except that plenty of people have brought her feminist views and "gender swapping" into it, having a "boyfriend" in the company, among other things. Don't blame me for bringing her gender into it, that was done a long time ago. While I can agree that it's not every single person in opposition making this about gender, it's blind to say that it's not a major component of the backlash.
I've not said whether or not that's important to me. The thing I'm highlighting is people acting like all these veteran Japanese game creators have suddenly turned into ghosts and have no control over this now-doomed project because of one person taking a position as community manager. and drawing some robots. for a game where everything is a robot.
theSlacker
Member
Sorry, I added more to my post that already addresses this and guess I didn't get it up fast enough;
Not going to deny that there are actual real life sexists being their real life sexist selves in regards to this "story". I would just rather not see their existence used as a scapegoat for legitimate concerns.
Edit: Going to bed and fear that this is the kind of thing that will balloon a ton of pages while I sleep, so just gonna walk away now.
D
Diggeh
Unconfirmed Member
OH NO. A girl is doing stuff. And she said bad stuff on Twitter! Quick, get your refunds before she takes over Comcept and ruins Inafune forever!
theSlacker
Member
The mastermind revealed! And a GAFfer at that. TRAITOR! FIEND! RAPSCALLION!
Final Boss
Banned
So what? I didn't think the current cliche character already had the depth and deep rooted story to it that would put Shakespeare's classics to shame
This is why gamers are stereotyped the way they are
Sad
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
It's not my fault Comcept is down the street from our office!
Fuck, reading the forums and comments on this almost makes me want to see the whole goddamn game cancelled. These fans deserve the state megaman and capcom are now, bunch of entitled little kids. The image was fanart too not a design to be used in the game and she's a community manager in the project, not a graphics artist.
I should never ever read what the fans of any given game write, this shit is youtube comment levels of horrible.
I should never ever read what the fans of any given game write, this shit is youtube comment levels of horrible.
Final Boss
Banned
It's pathetic sexism right before our eyes
MilkyOctave
Member
I do think that nepotism is the wrong way to go. Comcept should have made a form on their hompeage to apply for the job and choose the best person (who is fluent in both Japanese and English, has best PR skills and knows about Mega Man or similiar game design).
I do condemn all personal attacks towards her. Everyone in the community, including her, has right to express their opinions about the game.
I understand some people who donated are upset, but they should know by now anything that goes into the game will go through Keiji Inafune first.
I do condemn all personal attacks towards her. Everyone in the community, including her, has right to express their opinions about the game.
I understand some people who donated are upset, but they should know by now anything that goes into the game will go through Keiji Inafune first.
Final Boss
Banned
But he's going to make the game and that's what counts, so why did this cliche Mighty 9 bootleg mega man character design become this holy untouchable character when it's possibly suggested the character be female
I seriously hope it's a female now
I seriously hope it's a female now
Well, for one thing, "Not liking her design" and "hoping that she doesn't have any actual creative influence" don't really go together. I don't particularly like that design, myself. I rather like the current design aesthetic for the game, and that design is not consistent with it; I don't think it fits.
The problem I have is the leap from "I don't like that design" to "I hope that she doesn't have any actual creative influence". That's a huge leap of assumptions that I'm not particularly comfortable with; the designs and creativity someone comes up with when working within the constraints of a universe someone else has designed are significantly different from the designs and creativity someone might come up with when looking from 'outside', as it were.
Ahahahahaha.... that design is goddamn hideous to the moon.
It's so tone deaf that I can see why people are as pissed as they are.
Absolutely no probs with having a female alt version of the main character.
But putting a troll face on the character is gonna make people mad.
It's so tone deaf that I can see why people are as pissed as they are.
Absolutely no probs with having a female alt version of the main character.
But putting a troll face on the character is gonna make people mad.
The drawing reeks of uncanny valley. That's just the case.
EDIT: Even if she was part of the design work (which I see is not the case), her style really doesn't mesh well with the art for the game. The uncanny valley is pretty bad. Apart from that she's not doing a great job what her job actually is given the evidence. It seems this whole incident is just going to be bad PR in the long run. I could be absolutely wrong though.
EDIT: Even if she was part of the design work (which I see is not the case), her style really doesn't mesh well with the art for the game. The uncanny valley is pretty bad. Apart from that she's not doing a great job what her job actually is given the evidence. It seems this whole incident is just going to be bad PR in the long run. I could be absolutely wrong though.
It was fan art. Not a design concept.
You know, I had always wondered why CMs of other games, like World of Warcraft, always posted very safe things and, for the most part, you didn't really know about their opinions of stuff beforehand.
Now, I know. People *actually believe* CMs have any real input on anything? Did I miss something in this shitstorm? Is she more than a community manager?
Now, I know. People *actually believe* CMs have any real input on anything? Did I miss something in this shitstorm? Is she more than a community manager?
Skid 4 Dead
Member
Came to post my excitement for the a vita release but after reading the comments...
i'll just see myself out
i'll just see myself out