I share the sentiment.
(For people wondering what those percentages are, PASBR had 6 guest fighters out of a total cast of 24 [25%]. 4/20 in the base game [20%])
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS Thread 3: Ridley's Believe It or Not!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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I share the sentiment.
(For people wondering what those percentages are, PASBR had 6 guest fighters out of a total cast of 24 [25%]. 4/20 in the base game [20%])
I don't think that's an equivalent comparison.
I really disagree with that. I think its important to represent the NES era. There were a bunch of one-off games released between 1984 and 1985, and most of the people involved with those titles have gone on to become important figures within Nintendo. The companys history in the home console arena is rooted in games like Ice Climber. Yes, the Ice Climbers were chosen for their uniqueness, but they were also chosen from a pool of other characters with the intent of representing the NES. Theyre not an arbitrary addition.
I think that all newcomers introduced in this game need to be relevant to their franchise going forward or for a good amount of time in the past. For example I wouldn't really want Ghirahim unless they plan on using him again in future games, which I find unlikely. Same goes for Chrom, really. Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina have had multiple recent appearances and likely multiple future appearances, while Mega Man has an enormous legacy so they all fit.
Edit: all revealed veterans so far also fit this criteria, although I wouldn't be opposed to "grandfathering in" less relevant vets like Ike, Ness, or Ice Climbers simply because I don't want cuts. But I want to avoid introducing new characters that would be at risk of being cut in future games, and I think all 4 newcomers would be relatively safe for Smash 5's hypothetical roster.
Edit: all revealed veterans so far also fit this criteria, although I wouldn't be opposed to "grandfathering in" less relevant vets like Ike, Ness, or Ice Climbers simply because I don't want cuts. But I want to avoid introducing new characters that would be at risk of being cut in future games, and I think all 4 newcomers would be relatively safe for Smash 5's hypothetical roster.
It's funny to read reactions whenever a veteran or newcomer gets announced. You always get stuff like "yeah that's cool and al, BUT WHERE'S RIDLEY, LITTLE MAC, NARUTO, MEWTWO AND CAPTAIN FALCON??". People always seems to think the latest character announced is the last to be announced, lmao.
Agreed. Sakurai should also remove Ness and Lucas; those D-listers never made any sales and haven't had a new game since 2006. I dunno why anybody would ever want to play as some lame psychic kid who hasn't been relevant in the US in over a decade.
I remember when I got that card. Those were the days.
theprodigy
Member
Itoi, Iwata, and Miyamoto were heavily involved in the development of Mother. That alone warrants its inclusion in Smash Bros. The series didn't set the sales charts on fire, but the games are still important to Nintendo's legacy. It also doesn't hurt that the same studio was responsible for developing EarthBound and Smash Bros. The guys at HAL probably felt a special attachment to Ness.
Honestly, I could do without Lucas if I had to cut a character from the roster, but I definitely think Mother deserves representation. It's not nearly on the same level as Pushmo, Sakura Samurai, Chibi-Robo!, or some of the other excluded IPs.
We're talking about newcomers; Ness and Lucas were relevant when the rosters for SSB64 and Brawl were being put together, respectively. There's no predicting a character's future.
That's a good point. Ness' game wasn't even released in Europe until the VC release this year and it sold pretty bad in the US. Also, wasn't Roy put into Melee before his game was released in Japan?
I'M FINISHED!
Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
Sakurai is awesome like Ike and fights for his friends. Snake wouldn't even be in Brawl without Sakurai's Ike like nature.
If Ike is cut and Chrom shows up, there is no justice in this world.
In addition to the retro stuff I don't see a problem with reps from other era's more niche franchises either, it's not like PSASBR where a bunch modern characters were advertisements, it would still be celebrating Nintendo's history, just another part of it. Sakurai has a history of making off-the-wall choices so I can easily see him adding goofy stuff like Chibi-Robo.
Not like anybody thought WFT wasn't a Z-list non-character before this game.
I don't think any value for Smash would be lost if any of the "D-listers" were included. Strange opinion huh?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
merely because those people worked on that game makes it qualify for smash? You have lost the point of smash brothers, ryce
I already acknowledged that I hold a minority opinion. I'm fighting an uphill battle.
I think you skipped the first three sentences.
Luffy (in Japan) inclusion would be a huge money maker for Nintendo, and for that I do think it's more likely than what people think, especially with Nintendo's recent binge of collaborations. I do not think it'll happen, though.
Letterbomb
Banned
Pretty good list. I think you'll get as close as they come when it's all said and done. Just wanted to comment that Sakurai needs his retro character; in light of there being very few candidates for that position, Takumaru is more likely than Shulk or Pac-Man, in my opinion.
Also just wanted to comment on everyone who's been throwing out this line:
"Nintendo doesn't care about such and such character anymore."
Irrelevant. You're hugely underestimating how much control Sakurai has over this game. You're also widely misjudging his criteria and preference for the characters he includes. On a further note, character popularity--despite importance to their relative franchise--is important. Sakurai has always paid a fair amount of attention to what the fans want via polls and such.
Just sayin' now, anyone doubting Krystal's inclusion has another thing coming. Wolf will likely be shafted for her, even... Not saying I think Krystal is cooler than Wolf, just what I think Sakurai will decide to do. He seems to be consciously adding females to the roster, and her having wide support as well as potential for a unique fighting style only helps her chances.
King K. Rool I ain't sure about. I feel if we only get one new DK rep, it'll be Dixie before him. Maybe Sakurai might throw us two at once to make up for DK not getting an extra rep in Melee, kind of like how he caught Kirby up by the time Brawl came around.
General thoughts...all good fun.
I know, it just sounded so elitist that I couldn't help but comment. Sometimes you're on the ball bro, other times you're unnecessarily cynical. It's like you think we're delusional for wanting more characters.
CombustingFetus
Neo Member
I don't think you understand the consequences of your actions
It only becomes PS All Stars if Mario, Link and Kirby are removed. All Stars had 20 characters, a quarter of which were guests - many with little history - and couldn't get in Crash, Spyro or Lara Croft, who were essentially the initial faces of the PlayStation era. Smash is now on its 4th installment, has had over 40 unique characters, and, importantly, has all the notable ones. It now needs to hit more obscure ones. It can't not do it.
Yes indeed! Hunting for them 1st Editions! I used to have every Mewtwo card up until... whenever they started looking weird. Early 2000's. My timeline may be off. lol
This was my fave.
I dunno. He seems to be having an identity crisis.
in Unknown Dungeon
lol
Hey, someone had to be high to make the stages.
The start of a very dark turn for Yoshi.
What about Pit's Relevance? Kid Icarus was a dead franchise before Uprising came out, and that was well after Brawl's release.
I believe that Smash is a celebration of ALL the game history within Nintendo. History started 1 second ago and goes back to their first game. That makes newcomers such as the eShop guys as valid as the older characters. Besides, if they feature new guys, then interest in series that are still being sold can be re-kindled and sales can be boosted.
Pac-Man has the pre-E3 leak going for him, so he's a safer bet than Shulk.
luffy makes as much sense as batman
I'M FINISHED!
Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
Kid Icarus was a dead franchise, but the first game wasn't a bomb. It was a success, specifically in North America, unlike Earthbound.
You're admitting that Ness and Lucas are D-listers who were included because of favoritism. Think about that next time you say "X and Y aren't worthy for Smash."
So basically, "They should stay in Smash because they were in Smash." I certainly don't remember Lucas, a whiny kid from an unsuccessful Japanese-only game being relevant. I don't remember Ness being relevant back when SSB64 came out four years after Earthbound bombed.
Chibi-Robo is getting a new 3DS game, the fourth in its series. The cute kids are stuck at three forever because Nintendo barely even has enough faith for rereleases. I think we know who the real D-listers here are.
Metroid fans, of course.
Luffy would be much worse.
Like Ice Climbers, Pit is a retro character. He represented the Disk System in Brawl.
Don't get me wrong -- I don't agree with every roster choice Sakurai has made over the course of the series. Ganondorf should not be based on Falcon, I think the addition of clones in Melee was bizarre in general, and I don't know why Jigglypuff keeps showing up in every game. But for the most part, I think he knows what he's doing.
No, it's okay to want more characters. I don't have a problem with what anybody else wants -- it's not like that affects me personally or anything. I'm merely just observing trends from the first three games. For example, it doesn't come as a surprise to me that three of the four announced newcomers hail from wildly successful EAD franchises.
I'd go so far as to say that I'd leave GAF forever if some obscure new second-party IP like Chibi-Robo! was given a playable character. It's less that I want it to happen and more that I expect it to happen.
Sakurai said:
I want to highlight this for oldskool bashers. Sakurai said that in regards to old characters he would do his BEST to bring them back, this best implies that there is no thinking about or pondering or maybe. It implies that he is putting effort into this task and that he enjoys it. People wanting the same burnt out shit can get mad and stomp their feet all they want. Old retro characters have a place in Smash and unless Iwata forces Sakurai to focus on top franchises to turn this into to Super Smash Market due to panic mode, I'm confident Sakurai can deliver and bring more life into the roster from old character like Takamaru and Little Mac who is technically not old anymore anyway.
GAF isn't responsible for Smash Bros characters. Otherwise we'd have a stuntman in a Ridley costume announced.
Also, why the EAD elitism?
I never said that. Itoi, Iwata, and Miyamoto have no pull as far as which characters are included in Smash Bros. But because those three are such well-known and influential figures in the Japanese gaming industry, it makes sense that a Mother character would appear in Smash Bros. It's the biggest "little" IP in Nintendo's repertoire.
For the veterans, yes. Most people would agree with that statement.
Brawl's roster was decided in 2005, but Mother 3 wasn't released until 2006. Lucas was most certainly relevant. EarthBound was only three years old when SSB64 was being developed. Three years is not a long time.
You'd have to ask Sakurai. A majority of the Smash Bros. characters are from EAD games.
Letterbomb
Banned
You understand that the entire purpose of Smash Bros. is to celebrate Nintendo as a whole, right? Not Nintendo's best selling and most popular characters particularly--everything about it. Smash celebrates its mascot characters: Mario, Luigi, Peach, et cetera. Smash celebrates its star franchises: Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, et cetera. Smash celebrates its minor franchises: F-Zero, Mother, Fire Emblem, et cetera. Smash celebrates its past and retro works: Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus. Smash celebrates its hardware: Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. Smash even celebrates the stars of other companies its had relations with: Sonic, Mega Man.
The whole thing is just a giant celebration. It's not a matter of relevance to our times or sales. This is why you should expect a character like Mii, which has been a huge face for Nintendo as a whole. This is why you should expect yet another retro character to be brought back with a new and intriguing take. Don't count out the small guys, my man. Especially don't try to predict Sakurai.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Preach
Except all the Pokemon, Sonic, Snake, Diddy Kong, Megaman...
And besides, it's not Sakurai who said he's leaving GAF if a second party character gets into Smash.
Don't take me being down on Mother seriously. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here to your bizarre Chibi-Robo! hate. Why does it irk you so much? Second parties have been a huge resource for Nintendo. Where would it be without ever acquiring Rare, without Retro, without Gamefreak?
ArchedThunder
Banned
EAD made Donkey Kong games before Mario...
theprodigy
Member
and what's your point
I don't disagree with any of that. Miis are deserving, and I fully expect to see more retro characters. I'm talking about outsourced/second-party/downloadable games that are seemingly of little importance to Nintendo -- characters like Pushmo, Sakura Samurai, Captain Rainbow, Dillon, and Wonder Red. I'll eat my hat if any of those are playable.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Diddy kong was a creation of rare
Letterbomb
So many truthbombs are in this post, they had to make up the term Letterbomb instead.
I'm sorry lol.
I'm sorry lol.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I read Diddy as Donkey, whoops.
theprodigy
Member
that was awful, and you should feel bad for saying it
I said the majority, not all of them. 23 of Brawl's 39 characters originated in games developed by Nintendo's internal studios.
I don't have anything against second-party games in general, it's just that I think the only second-party series worth representing already have characters (Kirby, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem).
