Which is still more lucrative than building AAA games and refusing to release them in any way in multiple regions.
What is Sega internal even working on right now? Only the two new Yakuza games?
PC Gamers Assemble, Let's Demand PC Ports From Sega!
- Thread starter Grief.exe
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Which is still more lucrative than building AAA games and refusing to release them in any way in multiple regions.
What is Sega internal even working on right now? Only the two new Yakuza games?
Mr. Smiley
Member
Bayonetta, Vanquish, and Resonance of Fate: Definitive Editions? I'll triple-dip.
Done.
Sentenza
Member
Well, I don't really test beds are ever that useful, because the truth, especially on PC where word of mouth matters a lot, is that every game performs on its own and you can hardly predict what is going to be successful when you are basing your stats on a previous game you published which was also entirely different.
I'm not sure how they could grasp anything useful about the potential market for Valkyria Chronicles or Persona 4/5 looking at how Vanquish or Bayonetta performs, for instance.
No, because I'm not talking about something circumstantial or specific, I'm talking about years reading blogs or posts form developers or talking to them myself and pretty much the scenario is always the same: you have from one to six people working for six months at most to port most of the games.
Maybe some special juggernauts (GTA IV/V?) could occasionally require a lot more, but we all know that's not what we are talking about here, right?
You aren't expecting SEGA to re-do the texture work for Valkyria Chronicles, Bayonetta or Vanquish entirely, right?
The first notable PC release of 2014 is a PG game. I think that's pretty fuckin' rad.
Well then it still doesn't really speak to the price of porting, only the effort required and even that will be variable. Every game is different. It'll be easier and more difficult depending on every game.
Look how the Dark Souls and Deadly Premonition port ended up. Look at how the MK9 port ended up.
Very different quality levels.
I mean, I've said this several times before but I don't think any of the above matters because regardless of if we want them all we won't get them all until they feel comfortable that they'll all individually sell well and a bunch of people saying "PC gamers want these games" is different than a bunch of people saying "I want this game."
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I just realized that Platinum is indeed leading the New Year in terms of big PC titles. How about that.
We live in exciting times, my friend.
I'm really interested to see those preorder numbers.
I speel my dreenk
Member
Even though I own all of these games already, I would buy the shit out of Valkyria Chronicles on pc.
angular graphics
Banned
Alan Wake PC took the third party developer Remedy handed over the task 5 months to do. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/16/sleep-talking-alan-wake-interview/
The core PC porting team was 5 people: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/alan-wake_/credits
QA was 3 people:
And 3 Remedy dudes were overseeing the work done by the third party (while working full time on American Nightmare for XBLA themselves).
The core PC porting team was 5 people: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/alan-wake_/credits
QA was 3 people:
And 3 Remedy dudes were overseeing the work done by the third party (while working full time on American Nightmare for XBLA themselves).
Also Typing of The Dead could be another example.
I can't speak for everyone but as much as I love a good sale, if Bayonetta gets a great port released on PC, I'll be there day one! Honestly my dream is some sort of retail collector's edition PC release of Bayonetta with tons of goodies. I'd buy that instantly at a high price. This is coming from someone who plays 95% of his games on PC and uses his console (PS3) for exclusives. Also apparently I played the worst version of the game lol.
The 360 version of Bayonetta rarely holds 60fps, but the PS3 version struggled with 30 before the patch.
Here's the Digital Foundry video... it's... hard to believe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZg8ebaARmY
angular graphics
Banned
A more relevant example perhaps, Sega's Binary Domain PC port outsourced to Devil's Details was done by 5 people. http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/binary-domain/credits
And QA was: 1 + 7 people.
And QA was: 1 + 7 people.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
These bastards ported Sonic Generations too. I call them bastards because the port dropped frames like crazy at a lot of parts and my X360 wired controller would sometimes go crazy.
And yes it's the only game that cause the wonky controller issue.
angular graphics
Banned
Sonic Generations PC port again outsourced to Devil's Details was 8 people and 1+1 testers. http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/sonic-generations/credits
Edit yeah I know about the frame drops in the Chemical Zone..
Edit yeah I know about the frame drops in the Chemical Zone..
Sentenza
Member
See? You can get similar infos a lot talking to developers.
These kinds of numbers keep being consistently true across most ports.
Man it's weird I've heard that from multiple people but I had no problem with the PC port of Generations at all.
The size of the team porting the games isn't the issue at hand.
The success of Rising, DayZ, and Starbound disprove that argument.
I would sell my soul for this, yea.Here's my attempt at one (hope I didn't forget to edit something):
Sentenza
Member
Well, it is actually, because the number of persons you need to involve for a port is directly related to its cost and its chances of being profitable.
They could use one person and it would just take a really long time.
They could use 20 people and get it done quick.
They're still paying those people.
And again, unless the price for porting it is literally so low that the thought of being able to return an investment isn't even a question in their mind, they still wouldn't port them all unless they know that they have chances of being successful in the PC landscape which is why most developers port one game and gauge the results.
Sentenza
Member
Sure, that's why I specified *both* the average team size and the average time of development.
Look man, we can do this tango for 20 pages but I've already explained why I think that's irrelevant.
The only response you've had to the idea that if they do it they'd start with a test bed is "But I don't like that." so I don't see the point of continuing it.
Like I said, the size of the team the length of the development and the ability of the team porting are irrelevant unless the price is so insubstantial that there's no doubt they would make a return on their investment.
I know they're primarily gamepad-driven, but hey, wired 360 pads are cheap.
Sentenza
Member
Sure you have. It's just that I disagree with you.
Ehr... Which was pretty much my very point from the start?
When you have numbers like those to do a port of what's generally considered a good game you have to do a fucking disaster to not at least break even.
I wanna understand why you think that doesn't make sense though because I don't see it when you keep the other stuff I mentioned in mind.
angular graphics
Banned
One last one: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/darksiders/credits
Darksiders "core" PC porting team was 1 lead + 3 programmers.
3 designers, 2 additional programmers, 2 UI artists and 2 QA testers make the rest of the team.
But of course for example the UI artists (making the updated menu for the PC version and new button icons) wouldn't work full time on it for months, like the programmers.
From what I can see the core programming team of PC ports is ~5 people and another ~5-10 people do supplementary tasks (eg new menu, etc).
Darksiders "core" PC porting team was 1 lead + 3 programmers.
3 designers, 2 additional programmers, 2 UI artists and 2 QA testers make the rest of the team.
But of course for example the UI artists (making the updated menu for the PC version and new button icons) wouldn't work full time on it for months, like the programmers.
From what I can see the core programming team of PC ports is ~5 people and another ~5-10 people do supplementary tasks (eg new menu, etc).
Crimsonclaw111
Member
For the most part it was a clean port but certain parts of stages (fuck you Chemical Plant water slide) would drop significantly lower. And I have had my controller remap buttons for no reason (X to jump? A to spin dash? wtf?) or otherwise quit working (end of that Sonic 06 level), forcing me to alt+tab and close the game because the keyboard will not work with the controller scheme selected.
I have no idea if Binary Domain also suffers from these issues but Generation's issues have soured me on the developer's name.
I guess I might not be the most reliable since I had no issues with Generations, but Binary Domain ran a beauty for me as well.
Aren't those first-gen NVidia 3D glasses? I hope Platinum Games/SEGA is just waiting for the right moment to unveil these PC ports.Along side the unveil of the Dreamcast 2 Steam Machine
They have had it running on development PCs for a long time, but its a far cry from releasing a full product.
Sentenza
Member
Well, it's not a product ready for release, obviously, but that also makes the proposition of a port even more of a no-brainer when most of the core work is already done.
If I'm remembering right, those exact areas lagged similarly in the console versions. It wasn't an issue with the port.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I think that's because it was almost a 1:1 console port with zero optimization.
TaroYamada
Member
Definitely tapering off, we're gonna need to get behind a smaller set of likely games in my view. Virtua Fighter 5 makes sense due to fighting games doing well on PC recently, we lack a 3D fighter and VF is the premier franchise of the genre as well as its originator, in the arcades it runs on embedded linux and a Pentium 4 processor.
Bayonetta/Vanquish, there's potential for too but I think we're making a mistake asking for so many unlikely releases. We can express general interest while still focusing on more realistic titles.
Also we really do need a petition of some sort, the fact that we're now tapering off and never even got a reply from SEGA doesn't exactly raise my spirit.
Bayonetta/Vanquish, there's potential for too but I think we're making a mistake asking for so many unlikely releases. We can express general interest while still focusing on more realistic titles.
Also we really do need a petition of some sort, the fact that we're now tapering off and never even got a reply from SEGA doesn't exactly raise my spirit.
Sentenza
Member
It could be for a lot of reasons, maybe even just lack of interest, but it didn't help that it started during a weekend, when no gaming site had even a chance to pick the story and publish a news about it.
I think it's more likely that there were issues with the engine just being inefficient at doing certain things and those didn't get rewritten for the PC version. Not unoptimized as in they didn't optimize the port, but they didn't optimize stuff that had the same issues on consoles.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Here's my attempt at one (hope I didn't forget to edit something):
This is so good. This image could have been passed as a leak.
MickeyKnox
Member
a weekend in the middle of a holiday break at that, should have waited till next week to start this.
Fuck Bayonetta then. Give me Vanquish!
Generations is optimized fairly well on GPU usage (it's very low), it's just that the engine is very reliant on CPU usage and it's got some cache bugs that don't completely clean the terrain loaded into memory (i.e. stuff will start having more pop-in after subsequent playthroughs of stages). If you have a fairly powerful CPU you can overpower those issues easily.
You don't need to worry about that developer anymore anyway.
HolyBaikal
Banned
If we're going to get behind one game in particular, I would like Valkyria Chronicles.
It has a lot of support, and is something that appeals to me, and would be very successful on Steam. I think that a Steam release is exactly what the Valkyria Chronicles franchise needs. It's something that could lead to Valkyria Chronicles 3 being eventually localized.
It has a lot of support, and is something that appeals to me, and would be very successful on Steam. I think that a Steam release is exactly what the Valkyria Chronicles franchise needs. It's something that could lead to Valkyria Chronicles 3 being eventually localized.
Maybe not exactly shitheads, but you can't tell me that the people making decisions at some Japanese publishers aren't a bit out of whack.
By now even Sega should realize that they killed their most promising IP in years by looking only at Japan, and even then failing to capitalize on the Monster Hunter boom despite tacking on multiplayer and moving it to a platform which was utterly dead in the West. Valkyria and its sequels could have been selling 500k copies instead on Steam.