Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments

Fiktion said:
He never said that, and he wouldn't have to make a New Year's resolution to get the game out in 2014 if it really was on track to be a summer release.

November if we're lucky.
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You read too much into his comment,
saying "november if we're lucky" kinda irks me to be honest its not like the game is hardly in development, its been in development since march of 2012 and sakurai has already said they were starting from brawl's engine and such and not from scratch. This isnt some "november if we're lucky" thing
 
Village said:
I trying figure out why people like he ain't getting in?

" hey plays similar to another person, and ....... kind sort of... if you squint real hard on a Tuesday looks like marth."

You mean that thing that doesn't stop people from getting in fighting games?
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Smash Bros. isn’t Street Fighter or Tekken. All we have to go by is what Sakurai tells us, and he’s been pretty vocal about individuality and uniqueness trumping everything else:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection
From there, a list of candidates is refined by evaluating their contribution to the game's roster: "What is the uniqueness of this character? What does this character bring into the Smash Bros. universe? What do they have that other characters don't? How do they complement or contrast other characters?”
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http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/44...es-mega-man-smash-bros-s-other-new-characters
On the other hand, even if you have a character suited for a fighting game, if you can't make him stick out from the pack and extract something unique from him, then what can you do?
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http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/06/an-in-depth-chat-with-the-genius-behind-super-smash-bros/
They have to have something really unique that makes them stand apart from other characters in the game, and not limit yourself to characters that are just combat-based.
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http://www.nowgamer.com/news/features/2034386/super_smash_bros_sakurai_speaks.html
When it comes to picking new characters for these new Smash Bros titles, Sakurai has a very specific methodology that comes down to gameplay potential. "When we’re looking at candidates for new characters, we get a list of characters that people are interested in and we go through those with a fine tooth comb. The biggest feature we look at in Smash Bros is, what does this character bring to Smash Bros that other characters don’t?”
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Those quotes very easily apply to Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina & Luma. But Chrom? Not so much.

Keep in mind, nobody's saying Chrom absolutely won't be included. Most people are probably expecting him. It's just that he doesn't fit Sakurai's criteria, and so it's worth considering if the popularity of Awakening alone is enough to warrant Chrom's inclusion, because on his own merits he doesn't really offer anything new.
 
Takamaru is the only "possible" sword user that I would be excited to see.


theprodigy said:
yeah it's pretty nice too /s
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Well, that is something. Iwata calls me directly.
 
foxuzamaki said:
You read too much into his comment,
saying "november if we're lucky" kinda irks me to be honest its not like the game is hardly in development, its been in development since march of 2012 and sakurai has already said they were starting from brawl's engine and such and not from scratch. This isnt some "november if we're lucky" thing
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I am willing to make an avatar bet that it will not be released before E3.
 
Village said:
How are going coming up with this?
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Right here, bud.

Village said:
Isn't this guy who put and attempted to put a again , the doctor version of a character in?
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He put in a visually distinct version of Mario as a last minute clone to prop up the roster in Melee, like he did with a bunch of other characters, yes. We still don't know for certain what those remnants of him on the Brawl disc really were. They could have just been leftovers from Melee.

Village said:
Seems like it. " they look alike" is the silliest explanation I have ever heard. Even though the bickering has grown tiring at least the "ridley is too big " argument has some thematic reason in which would could argue his unplayable nature, along with the guy being a stage hazard. And a boss in the previous installment, But looking alike? The guy put the Dr. Version of a character in Melee and was ready to do it agian in brawl. Along with Plussel and Minum two pikachu like creatures, oh yeah Pichu.

Looking alike and playing simular is not a restriction of his game design.
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Mario and Dr. Mario look very different, as do Pikachu and Pichu, who have different proportions. While not radically different in moveset there's enough quicks in the latter to differentiate him from the former.

Nobody's saying no to different movesets or similar apperances. They're saying no to a character who is practically designed to be a tribute to another one.

Village said:
Lucas an Ness share a lot of qualities and have similar move sets too by the way.
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But they're still very, very different from one another in apperance and in action. (And also have very little to do with the moves they actually learn in their games). It's a similar case with Wolf, where they only shares the framework of their special abilities instead of the entirety of a moveset.
 
Berordn said:
Right here, bud.



He put in a visually distinct version of Mario as a last minute clone to prop up the roster in Melee, like he did with a bunch of other characters, yes. We still don't know for certain what those remnants of him on the Brawl disc really were. They could have just been leftovers from Melee.



Mario and Dr. Mario look very different, as do Pikachu and Pichu, who have different proportions. While not radically different in moveset there's enough quicks in the latter to differentiate him from the former.

Nobody's saying no to different movesets or similar apperances. They're saying no to a character who is practically designed to be a tribute to another one.



But they're still very, very different from one another in apperance and in action. (And also have very little to do with the moves they actually learn in their games). It's a similar case with Wolf, where they only shares the framework of their special abilities instead of the entirety of a moveset.
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you make it sound like Chrom can't possibly be anything other than a Marth clone
LOL
 
Ryce said:
Those quotes very easily apply to Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina & Luma. But Chrom? Not so much.

Keep in mind, nobody's saying Chrom absolutely won't be included. Most people are probably expecting him. It's just that he doesn't fit the criteria Sakurai has laid out for the latest Smash Bros., and so it's worth considering if the popularity of Awakening alone is enough to warrant Chrom's inclusion, because on his own merits he doesn't really offer anything new.
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It may or may not.

And this is assertion is reasonable.

Wither it be chrom, luciina or player insert. Someone is getting in , no way its just gonna be marth and Ike. You know Ike that guy who was included during his fire emblem time,yeah.


Also who says he has to play like marth... at all really.

Example

Look up ryu's master goken in sf4.

Boom
 
theprodigy said:
you make it sound like Chrom can't possibly be anything other than a Marth clone
LOL
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Never said he couldn't be.

All I said is that it seemed unlikely for the same reasons mentioned in that interview that was going around a while back. His playstyle could be a pretty radical departure from his depiction in the game like Ike's was, but that doesn't make him any more or less likely.
 
Berordn said:
Never said he couldn't be.

All I said is that it seemed unlikely for the same reasons mentioned in that interview that was going around a while back. His playstyle could be a pretty radical departure from his depiction in the game like Ike's was, but that doesn't make him any more or less likely.
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If that's all you going off and you twist a bit, sure.

Isn't this the franchise who had not one , but two previous reps who were added because they were the current hot shit in the franchise? And considering the fact that in this game sakurai has been pulling from very VERY recent stuff, epically in sonic's case. And when you consider that FE:A is very successful and him and Lucina are basically the faces of that thing. And considering the fact you could give him a an unorthodox marth like fighting style like goken/ryu. AND considering FE gotta SMT crossoever coming up.

His chances go WAY up.


The only concern I have with him being in is, this.

They showed his stage, but no new rep. No new FE characters could be ready yet sure, because rosalinea, but its a bit concerning.
 
Platy said:
NUMBER 3 !

19HofW1.png

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKlfvaAAFA

Not a classic choice, but it IS one of the most active mascots outside Mario and Sonic
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I think Rayman would be a nice addition in all honestly. He's certainly unique, and I can imagine him having a manic Origins/Legends inspired moveset.
 
Sciz said:
Those quotes make me fear for Little Mac more than anything.
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A clever use of the star punch could make Little Mac very unique, and besides, I think even a more standard boxer playstyle would stand out amongst the rest of the cast.
 
the chances of Awakening not getting a rep, whether it's Chrom, Lucina, Robin, or Anna, is basically zero

....

quick SmashGAF, out of these four, which one would you prefer
 
Berordn said:
Chrom's biggest hurdle is that he's not a distinct character moreso than his sharing a sword with someone else on the cast. His design (and his daughter's design) are intended to evoke Marth, his fighting style is supposed to be similar to Marth, and the character that knew Marth mistakes Chrom for him. Unless they do something crazy with him (i.e. Lucinia pair-up) he'd be a redundant choice..

edit: Mamba beat me to it, much more concisely.
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You have a lot of points, but Tiki also mistook the avatar for Marth, went as far as accidently calling him Mar-Mar, says Lucina's personality evokes Marth, and that Chrom's evokes another of his ancestors ( I have a feeling she's talking about Ike, but I wouldn't know)

I'm personally a fan of hooded avatar with female/male costumes wearing a hood.
 
Village said:
If that's all you going off and you twist a bit, sure.
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It's not twisting it off any more than it is taking it verbatim, but sure.

Village said:
Isn't this the franchise who had not one , but two previous reps who were added because they were the current hot shit in the franchise? And considering the fact that in this game sakurai has been pulling from very VERY recent stuff, epically in sonic's case. And when you consider that FE:A is very successful and him and Lucina are basically the faces of that thing. And considering the fact you could give him a an unorthodox marth like fighting style like goken/ryu. AND considering FE gotta SMT crossoever coming up.

His chances go WAY up.
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I stand by correlation != causation. It's also not all terribly recent, since the newest game we've seen represented in it is Sonic Lost World which will probably be close to a year old by the time this comes out. Everything else barring Pikmin 3 has been out in Japan already for a year or longer.

For all we know Roy may have been cut early into the game's development but he just wanted a FE character to replace him and keep the same representation in this game. Ike would still be the second-most recurring protagonist by this point.

Village said:
The only concern I have with him being in is, this.

They showed his stage, but no new rep. No new FE characters could be ready yet sure, because rosalinea, but its a bit concerning.
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I actually don't think this means anything either way, since we've also only seen one Pokemon rep and there's undoubtedly more in there. Calling the stage Feroxi Arena is probably a bit premature, since it could be a Castle Siege style stage that represents the series as a whole.

Hyperactivity said:
You have a lot of points, but Tiki also mistook the avatar for Marth, went as far as accidently calling him Mar-Mar, says Lucina's personality evokes Marth, and that Chrom's evokes another of his ancestors ( I have a feeling she's talking about Ike, but I wouldn't know)

I'm personally a fan of hooded avatar with female/male costumes wearing a hood.
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I was actually going entirely off half a year old memory on that, so thanks for correcting me.

(I'm also rooting for either gender Robin more than Chrom)
 
Robin is my go-to choice for a new FE rep. Looks and acts unique, represents a cool mechanic, solid design. Lucina would be my second choice because of the whole "female" thing and the fact I prefer her as a character to Chrom. Then Chrom because he's a main character followed by literally everyone else tied for last because they have no chance.

(I'm surprised there's been no support for Sigurd, I remember him being a fairly popular dark horse character back in the Brawl days but I don't think I've heard his name mentioned at all.)
 
jph139 said:
Robin is my go-to choice for a new FE rep. Looks and acts unique, represents a cool mechanic, solid design. Lucina would be my second choice because of the whole "female" thing and the fact I prefer her as a character to Chrom. Then Chrom because he's a main character followed by literally everyone else tied for last because they have no chance.

(I'm surprised there's been no support for Sigurd, I remember him being a fairly popular dark horse character back in the Brawl days but I don't think I've heard his name mentioned at all.)
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that's because Sigurd is completely irrelevant under any metric you want
 
Man, these Fire Emblem debates? discussions? arguments? get just as heated as some of the other topics that we have rehashed over and over again. I guess at least this one is fresh(er) than others. I find it especially amusing when people really start picking apart specific sentences in each others arguments and then posting a ridiculous amount of Sakurai quotes to try and validate their point; it's all speculation in the end.

In other news, excited for ANY update, even if it is just a simple picture of battlefield.
 
voltronbadA said:
Man, these Fire Emblem debates? discussions? arguments? get just as heated as some of the other topics that we have rehashed over and over again. I guess at least this one is fresh(er) than others. I find it especially amusing when people really start picking apart specific sentences in each others arguments and then posting a ridiculous amount of Sakurai quotes to try and validate their point; it's all speculation in the end.

In other news, excited for ANY update, even if it is just a simple picture of battlefield.
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It's more refreshing to read than another fucking Ridley debate, I hope.
 
The most refreshing debate this thread could have would be discussing a Metroid character that isn't Ridley appearing.
 
afoni said:
The most refreshing debate this thread could have would be discussing a Metroid character that isn't Ridley appearing.
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Metroid is essentially about a girl in armor alone on different planets full of monsters and giant bosses like Kraid, Ridley and the disgusting one.

I know there's other characters in some Metroid games but I don't feel there's any other that should be in Smash Bros. I still think Samus (and ZSS) is enough. Adding Metroid characters would really feel like Sakurai adding it for the sake of it.
 
afoni said:
what does that make pichu
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Well, as much as I love Melee, it's full of clones. So, if you're adding clones, why not add a popular Pokemon ? Not saying it's a good idea or a good character, but I understand Sakurai on that.

Sakurai adding another Metroid character than Ridley would really mean Sakurai absolutely wanted to put a Metroid character. There's really no other character that would be interesting in Smash Bros. In the recurring characters, Ridley's the only one that could be in the game. And there's no new character from a new game to advertise.

(And I say this even though I would hate Ridley to be in this game.)

Maybe Sakurai's gonna put that black helmet dude from the Metroid Other M gif with an awesome moveset, maybe another Bounty Hunter, maybe Dark Samus, but to me, it will really feel like Sakurai wanting to add a Metroid character for the sake of it.
 
Sakurai said he added Zero Suit Samus in Brawl mainly because he wanted to include another Metroid character. It really speaks to the suitability of Metroid's characters that a second version of Samus was deemed the most fitting. Even though I'd like to see Ridley, I agree that Metroid is less about its characters and more about isolation and exploration. The entire series is centered on Samus, and the only other important recurring characters are giant alien monsters.
 
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