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[Gintoki313]

for one, it has a unique setting for a kids show. instead of being based on a real world, it actually resembles a city. there's garbage and grime. the buildings have been worn down, and it the world feels geniunely lived in. and it's colored with these great watercolor backgrounds.

the music from jim lang is also fantastic. usually jazzy and laid back, but it can also be pretty emotional. it's unlike anything i've heard on the channel before or since. it lends a great style to the show.

of course there's the vocal talent. i don't want to single any one person out since all the kids do a great job, but francesca smith is particularly good as helga. the first and second arnolds on the show are also really good at what they do.

i think what stands out the most though is that it doesn't talk down to its audience. not every ending is a happy one and if it is, there's often a price. in arnold's christmas, helga is left with nothing but the satisfaction of getting arnold to believe in miracles again. it comes at the cost of her material gifts and wanting his affection in return for getting him a great gift. the concept of giving someone a belief for christmas, of indulging an idealist, i don't think i've seen explored in cartoons or television in general until abed's uncontrollable christmas over a decade later.

there are a lot of examples of the protagonists not getting what they want. not totally. it lends to a realistic depiction of childhood. there's also a lot of different family types and they're never pointed out as being different. arnold is raised by his grandparents, helga has a verbally abusive dad and a negligent alcoholic mother, stinky is raised by his single dad, phoebe's parents are an interracial couple, and patti's parents are little people. no one really questions it within the show, until arnold asks about what happens to his own parents.

This.

The thing I liked most about the show was the different types of kids. Harold was a not so smart bully that was held back a couple of times, Helga is a girl obsessed with Arnold and treats him badly to hide it, Rhonda is a rich girl that cares a lot of what she looks like, and Lila used to live on a farm but moved to the city.

They each usually had whole episodes based on each of their problems. Harold didn't want to go to his Barmitsfa because he was scared to become a man, Helga's sister came to stay for a while and Helga didn't like her because her parents always put her on a pedestal over her (they always mentioned how better her sister was over her), Rhonda was poor for a while and had to live like a regular person, and Lila was the new girl in school and was bullied by the girls for taking the boys attention away. The show mostly deals with real life situations for each character, and I thought that was really cool.

 

[TheSadRanger]

Didn't the characters age in Hey Arnold like in Rugrats?

 

[barrbarr]

Didn't the characters age in Hey Arnold like in Rugrats?

I don't think so, I am pretty sure there wasn't a Hey! Arnold, All Grown Up type show

 

[LordCanti]

There may have been an episode where it imagined what they'd be like as adults, but no, they never did the horrific thing that Rugrats did.

 

[nin1000]

for one, it has a unique setting for a kids show. instead of being based on a real world, it actually resembles a city. there's garbage and grime. the buildings have been worn down, and it the world feels geniunely lived in. and it's colored with these great watercolor backgrounds.

the music from jim lang is also fantastic. usually jazzy and laid back, but it can also be pretty emotional. it's unlike anything i've heard on the channel before or since. it lends a great style to the show.

of course there's the vocal talent. i don't want to single any one person out since all the kids do a great job, but francesca smith is particularly good as helga. the first and second arnolds on the show are also really good at what they do.



i think what stands out the most though is that it doesn't talk down to its audience. not every ending is a happy one and if it is, there's often a price. in arnold's christmas, helga is left with nothing but the satisfaction of getting arnold to believe in miracles again. it comes at the cost of her material gifts and wanting his affection in return for getting him a great gift. the concept of giving someone a belief for christmas, of indulging an idealist, i don't think i've seen explored in cartoons or television in general until abed's uncontrollable christmas over a decade later.

there are a lot of examples of the protagonists not getting what they want. not totally. it lends to a realistic depiction of childhood. there's also a lot of different family types and they're never pointed out as being different. arnold is raised by his grandparents, helga has a verbally abusive dad and a negligent alcoholic mother, stinky is raised by his single dad, phoebe's parents are an interracial couple, and patti's parents are little people. no one really questions it within the show, until arnold asks about what happens to his own parents.

so much THIS ! it was one of the first "kids" series to make me cry as a little kid.
The parents day episode is a masterpiece!

To Arnold it does not matter if he wins the parents tournament as he made peace with the situation that his parents passed away and he is living with his grandparents.
He accepts that and goes on with his life.

The music at the end ;___;

http://youtu.be/2Y-JAxNTdH0?t=11m50s


Kill: Gargoyles
Kill: The Tick
Save: Hey! Arnold

 

[LordCanti]

Weren't they going to have the parents be alive and stranded in the bush in a movie that never got made or something?

 

[nin1000]

Weren't they going to have the parents be alive and stranded in the bush in a movie that never got made or something?

i am glad they never made it

 

[AniHawk]

i am glad they never made it

i am too. the final episode of the series, 'the journal', kinda sucks.

his parents are poorly written and the worst part about the show, aside from the awful monkeyman episode and the fourth arnold voice.

 

[A Human Becoming]

It's the only opportunity people get to discuss the topic of the thread. If all we do is vote this thread would be very boring. Debating over why one should stay and one should go is what makes the stakes higher and this thread stay relevant and not disappear to the abyss.

It's all for fun and there is no "prize" for the winner or any "loss" for the losers so let people petition all they want.

(Until Gargoyles get's voted out, then I will bring this thread down....

Spoiler

jk

)

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The fun for me is:

A: The discussion of what should go next/childhood memories of these shows
B: Seeing if it goes that way or unravels, leaving something else vulnerable for a last minute snipe

You two don't understand why I'm saying, but I'm leaving it at that.

I feel like that is alp the fun in this thread. All the politicking. Without it it'd just be a regular vote thread like GOTY or Show of the year.

There's not really any politicking going on when it's one group of people who choose while the rest of us decide how to react.

 

[Jado]

Weren't they going to have the parents be alive and stranded in the bush in a movie that never got made or something?

That sounds pretty awful. Imagine doing something that fucked up to Rugrats after we already got this great episode with Chaz and Chuckie.

Rugrats - Mother's Day (The Rugrats celebrate Mother's Day, and Chuckie wonders about his late mother.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq0ZbaJs_l0

 

[nin1000]

That sounds pretty awful. Imagine doing something that fucked up to Rugrats after we already got this great episode with Chaz and Chuckie.

Rugrats - Mother's Day (The Rugrats celebrate Mother's Day, and Chuckie wonders about his late mother.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq0ZbaJs_l0

Great Episode ! I miss such kind of cartoons as i think it is very important for kids to see the sad parts of life sprinkled in kids shows

 

[LordCanti]

You two don't understand why I'm saying, but I'm leaving it at that.

There's not really any politicking going on when it's one group of people who choose while the rest of us decide how to react.

All of that will come with the top 20 or so, when there aren't enough people in one camp to actually form any sort of alliance. Right now we're basically discussing which shows were better/worse than other shows and making our votes accordingly. There's nothing stopping everyone else from voting however they want, and they have.

RIP Sailor Moon.

That sounds pretty awful. Imagine doing something that fucked up to Rugrats after we already got this great episode with Chaz and Chuckie.

Rugrats - Mother's Day (The Rugrats celebrate Mother's Day, and Chuckie wonders about his late mother.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq0ZbaJs_l0

Yeah there's probably a good reason that movie never got made.

Children's cartoons are at their best when they tackle the difficult subjects, and having his parents be magically alive somewhere the whole time would have been awful.

 

[AniHawk]

Yeah there's probably a good reason that movie never got made.

Children's cartoons are at their best when they tackle the difficult subjects, and having his parents be magically alive somewhere the whole time would have been awful.

bartlett and nickelodeon got into a dispute and the jungle movie was never made, but it was supposed to take place in the 8th grade, years after the show. helga finds out where arnold's parents are and he returns her affection.

there was also supposed to be a spinoff show called the patakis, centered around helga's family. i think this was a far better sequel, and it was supposed to dump helga's obsession for arnold.

 

[LordCanti]

bartlett and nickelodeon got into a dispute and the jungle movie was never made, but it was supposed to take place in the 8th grade, years after the show. helga finds out where arnold's parents are and he returns her affection.

there was also supposed to be a spinoff show called the patakis, centered around helga's family. i think this was a far better sequel, and it was supposed to dump helga's obsession for arnold.

Aaahhhh that would have been the worrrrrrrrrrrrstttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

 

[RepairmanJack]

You two don't understand why I'm saying, but I'm leaving it at that.

There's not really any politicking going on when it's one group of people who choose while the rest of us decide how to react.

I don't really think there's any group or alliance pulling strings or anything. It seems more to me like the first couple people vote and people either agree with that or would rather vote them shows out rather than vote a different way and risk their favorite shows getting sniped. It's more strategy on the voters part than anything else. If all the votes are spread out it would more allow a small group to control what goes and doesn't go, because they would be able to band together and put all they're votes on one show and saves on whatever show they need to bring down to put theirs in the lead.

I think we'll see more of the politicking when it gets further down, but there has been some of it with people voicing why shows are good in just the last couple pages with shows like Hey Arnold, Darkwing Duck, and Gargoyles.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

for one, it has a unique setting for a kids show. instead of being based on a real world, it actually resembles a city. there's garbage and grime. the buildings have been worn down, and it the world feels geniunely lived in. and it's colored with these great watercolor backgrounds.

the music from jim lang is also fantastic. usually jazzy and laid back, but it can also be pretty emotional. it's unlike anything i've heard on the channel before or since. it lends a great style to the show.

of course there's the vocal talent. i don't want to single any one person out since all the kids do a great job, but francesca smith is particularly good as helga. the first and second arnolds on the show are also really good at what they do.

i think what stands out the most though is that it doesn't talk down to its audience. not every ending is a happy one and if it is, there's often a price. in arnold's christmas, helga is left with nothing but the satisfaction of getting arnold to believe in miracles again. it comes at the cost of her material gifts and wanting his affection in return for getting him a great gift. the concept of giving someone a belief for christmas, of indulging an idealist, i don't think i've seen explored in cartoons or television in general until abed's uncontrollable christmas over a decade later.

there are a lot of examples of the protagonists not getting what they want. not totally. it lends to a realistic depiction of childhood. there's also a lot of different family types and they're never pointed out as being different. arnold is raised by his grandparents, helga has a verbally abusive dad and a negligent alcoholic mother, stinky is raised by his single dad, phoebe's parents are an interracial couple, and patti's parents are little people. no one really questions it within the show, until arnold asks about what happens to his own parents.

Yep, hey arnold was amazing. I watched the spanish dub (that was pretty good) but from what im reading... they really had 4 different voice actors for arnold in the original?

 

[MikeHattsu]

I don't really think there's any group or alliance pulling strings or anything. It seems more to me like the first couple people vote and people either agree with that or would rather vote them shows out rather than vote a different way and risk their favorite shows getting sniped.

Yeah. I think it will get more interesting when we get closer to the top 10.

 

[Markster]

I don't really think there's any group or alliance pulling strings or anything. It seems more to me like the first couple people vote and people either agree with that or would rather vote them shows out rather than vote a different way and risk their favorite shows getting sniped..

There was definitely an alliance for a little while, you can see its formation here. They have voted as a block on several rounds. Earlier, they were enough to put enough votes on a show to take it out, then it transitioned into a bit of a 'nomination' where they would put up a couple shows with 4/5 kills out of the gate, letting the pile-ons finish them off.
As more people join the thread, and more people have stronger opinions about the shows getting nominated, it seems to be unpredictable.

The wild vote-editing is also getting pretty crazy. In the afternoon, things look one way, but by tally time, there have been huge reversals! Yesterday was a rollercoaster for second place, first Reboot, then TMNT, then finally Mr. Bravo taking the bullet.

 

[LordCanti]

As things get saves, it becomes clearer what can and can't be killed off.

 

[Skid 4 Dead]

As things get saves, it becomes clearer what can and can't be killed off.

For the time being, anyway.

Spoiler

I'm looking at you Reboot!

 

[midramble]

Wow, a lot of talk has happened since I slept. I also see a lot of back and forth on some great shows... Is anyone willing to defend Tiny Toons at this point? It was a fun show but felt like a weird mix of bobby's world, rugrats, and the original looney tunes. I'd willingly switch my kill from darkwing to Tiny Toons. (mainly because as a kid I did always like Gizmo.. "blathering blatherskite" always thought he'd make an awesome toy)

 

[TheSadRanger]

I honestly didn't think Tiny Toons was all that great, I have more memories of the SNES game than the show tbh.

It's just Muppet Babies with Looney Toons characters.

 

[LordCanti]

The SNES game was so good. Looking at clips on youtube though, it really isn't as good as the original Looney Tunes.

 

[AniHawk]

Aaahhhh that would have been the worrrrrrrrrrrrstttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

what they did with his parents was really unfortunate. arnold has two mary-sues for a mom and a dad (and his dad is voiced by series creator craig bartlett). it betrays the grounded feel of the show because they're adventurers (indiana jones style) who help out people in this mountain society.

i dislike a lot of parents day because of that. it's just enough to sour the episode. however the music is damn good, and the relationship between arnold and his grandparents is really strong in that one. bob pataki calls him an orphan boy and it cuts deep, so deep that he feels that the parents day tournament isn't where he and his grandparents belong because everyone has their real parents. after he tells his grandparents that he doesn't want to go back for the second day, the show becomes dead serious and his grandma drops her crazy shtick, trying to make him feel better. for me, the line 'he needs you, phil' really gives a lot of weight to the situation. grandpa then tells him the story of his mary-sue parents, and that they left for one last trip because they were supposedly the only people who could help this mountain tribe they were familiar with. they were never found and arnold suggests that they could still be alive. phil grants him that bit of hope, but with a lot of caution. that night, arnold has a dream where he's chasing his mom and dad's airplane, and it morphs into a dream about his grandparents and them raising him.

after arnold's family beats the patakis the next day, he goes to sleep and has a dream where he gets in an airplane of his own and flies away.

one thing i like about the early episodes is that it showcases a lot of arnold's imagination. this is a callback to 'arnold escapes from church', the short claymation film from 1988 the series is based on (making arnold, helga and harold the three oldest nicktoon characters). as the series went on, there was less of arnold 'escaping', and the more cartoony elements started to sneak their way into the show itself. parents day kind of brought it back with its dream sequences.

even though it's short, i think finding out who the parents are and why they left just rang false for what the show was. there was a chance for some redemption to make it just another story by grandpa phil, but the journal cements it as true. the journal is a half-hour episode about the escapades of arnold's parents and i just can't stand it.

Yep, hey arnold was amazing. I watched the spanish dub (that was pretty good) but from what im reading... they really had 4 different voice actors for arnold in the original?

five, actually. one for the pilot (which aired in theaters with harriet the spy), torin caudell as 'first arnold', who was in all of season 1 and parts of season 2 (his last episode is arnold's valentine). caudell did a really great job and established the character, i think. phillip van dyke was 'second arnold' and he was a really good followup to caudell. he lasted through the end of season 3. spencer klein was 'third arnold' and there were some growing pains there. he wasn't bad, but at that point it felt like an imitation. i will give him props for parents day though- it's probably his best work in the series. he was arnold for seasons 4 and most of 5, as well as the movie. 'fourth arnold' was alex d. linz (the kid from home alone 3) and he sounds like young sid. it's easily the worst version of the character.

of course by the end of season 5 the show had other problems. they got rid of the watercolor backgrounds, and the writing in general had slid to a sort of crummy place. i think seasons 1-3 are good, with season 1 being great. season 4 is hit and miss, and season 5 has a few all right episodes, but is mostly skippable.

 

[massoluk]

I honestly didn't think Tiny Toons was all that great, I have more memories of the SNES game than the show tbh.

It's just Muppet Babies with Looney Toons characters.

Same here. I have very fond memory Tiny Toons's SNES sport games. The cartoon itself was kinda boring, I can't even remember one memorable moment from that show, I don't know how I was a such a fan of it when I was young.

 

[LordCanti]

His parents actually being the cool adventurous parents that most orphans probably imagine was interesting, but yeah, them having died in a car accident or something would have been closer in tone to the rest of the show.

 

[NastyBook]

Kill: Beavis & Butthead - Could never really get into it, even though my older brother loved it.
Kill: TMNT - Rob Paulsen's done better shows.
Save: Reboot - Stay frosty, haters.

 

[AniHawk]

kill: beavis and butthead
kill: tmnt
save: reboot

never cared for beavis and butthead. tmnt hasn't held up. just keeping reboot around one more round.

 

[TheAbsolution]

I'm also noticing a pattern. Most people vote early in the morning. Interesting.

 

[LordCanti]

This is the most clear cut result in quite a while. It wasn't ever really close for #1 or #2.

I'm kind of shocked. Reboot has a defense force, but not Beavis and Butthead? That's crazy to me, and I really don't like B&B.

 

[midramble]

This is the most clear cut result in quite a while. It wasn't ever really close for #1 or #2.

I'm kind of shocked. Reboot has a defense force, but not Beavis and Butthead? That's crazy to me, and I really don't like B&B.

Didn't we lose some people since R&S died? They might have been the ones to back it but have left since.

 

[LordCanti]

Didn't we lose some people since R&S died? They might have been the ones to back it but have left since.

Judging by the amount of saves on the tally I did, I think about 40 people participated today. I think that's fairly close to how many the thread has been getting, but I'm not sure.

 

[Gintoki313]

I don't think so, I am pretty sure there wasn't a Hey! Arnold, All Grown Up type show

All Grown Up should have never been made. That special that premiered that was about the Rugrats "if they were teenagers" was enough. Most people enjoyed it and thought it was cool. Then Nick took the hype to the next level, and made it a series. Which really wasn't all that great. It was just regular teenagers having regular problems. Nothing huge, just stuff like liking someone and wanting them to notice you, or a sibling being better then you at sports.

They also didn't really act like the regular Rugrats. Lil acted popular all the time, they toned down how gross Phil was, and Dil turned into a conspiracy alien nut. It was just crazy what they did with some of the characters. Tommy I'm not sure about. He wanted to become a film director throughout the series, I can't really judge him on that since he never really had any job goals when he was a baby. One thing I can judge, is that in the regular Rugrats, Tommy rarely made problems himself (except on the Paris movie). He always solved them. In All Grown Up, he was creating numerous problems for himself which was weird.

That's why I liked Hey Arnold. While it was just a regular show about kids, it went more deeper into problems then just the bread and butter.

 

[midramble]

Judging by the amount of saves on the tally I did, I think about 40 people participated today. I think that's fairly close to how many the thread has been getting, but I'm not sure.

hmmmm then I'm at a loss. Maybe it's just the GAF demographic... if there is such a thing.

All Grown Up should have never been made. That special that premiered that was about the Rugrats if they were teenagers was enough. Most people enjoyed it and thought it was cool. Then Nick took the hype to the next level, and made it a series. Which really wasn't all that great. It was just regular teenagers having regular problems. Nothing huge, just stuff like liking someone and wanting them to notice you, or a sibling being better then you at sports.

They also didn't really act like the regular Rugrats. Lil acted popular all the time, they toned down how gross Dil was, and Dil turned into a conspiracy alien nut. It was just crazy what they did with some of the characters.

That's why I liked Hey Arnold. While it was just a regular show about kids, it went more deeper into problems then just the bread and butter.

This. Hey Arnold was also amazing at story telling. I'd say possibly the best.

 

[Sethtimus Prime]

Kill: Hey Arnold
Kill: Hey Arnold

Save: TMNT

Never really liked Hey Arnold.

 

[AniHawk]

All Grown Up should have never been made. That special that premiered that was about the Rugrats if they were teenagers was enough. Most people enjoyed it and thought it was cool. Then Nick took the hype to the next level, and made it a series. Which really wasn't all that great. It was just regular teenagers having regular problems. Nothing huge, just stuff like liking someone and wanting them to notice you, or a sibling being better then you at sports.

They also didn't really act like the regular Rugrats. Lil acted popular all the time, they toned down how gross Dil was, and Dil turned into a conspiracy alien nut. It was just crazy what they did with some of the characters.

That's why I liked Hey Arnold. While it was just a regular show about kids, it went more deeper into problems then just the bread and butter.

dil was a prop in rugrats. any development was better versus that. at least phil was still weird. tommy going from brave leader to douche filmmaker was the worst change though.

 

[TheAbsolution]

Judging by the amount of saves on the tally I did, I think about 40 people participated today. I think that's fairly close to how many the thread has been getting, but I'm not sure.

Nope, That's about right.
We've actually gotten more as time goes on. Our high is about 47 votes or so.
Anyways.
Voting for this round is now closed.
Should be fairly straightforward this time.
If you wanna see me create the boring spreadsheet that I do for this thread, Go ahead.

Results to be posted in about a half hour.

 

[KalBalboa]

I'm bummed that we're about to see Beavis & Butthead finally go, but in all honesty... it did last a long time.

I tip my hat to a hilarious piece of 90s animation, and one of Mike Judge's finest works.

 

[LordCanti]

I like that it just naturally died and that no alliance needed to form for it to go.

 

[KalBalboa]

I like that it just naturally died and that no alliance needed to form for it to go.

There was a bit of the usual dogpile, but yeah, it looks like haters finally amassed naturally for the ol' classic.

 

[AniHawk]

There was a bit of the usual dogpile, but yeah, it looks like haters finally amassed naturally for the ol' classic.

frog baseball. it's revenge on them for scaring me from anything mike judge until 2000.

 

[AniHawk]

so... i think next up is reboot, most likely. i wouldn't mind seeing it go if it also meant the end of courage the cowardly dog, x-men, or south park.

south park will probably be top ten though and i hate everything.

 

[KalBalboa]

so... i think next up is reboot, most likely. i wouldn't mind seeing it go if it also meant the end of courage the cowardly dog, x-men, or south park.

south park will probably be top ten though and i hate everything.

You know what? I'm ready for 90s South Park to get the axe too.

I have other shows I have mild interest in cutting, but I agree- I think it's high time we cut it, and it'd be far less painful and contentious than some of the other shows that could go.

 

[LordCanti]

Reboot had more saves than kills this round. I don't think it's vulnerable at all.

 

[midramble]

I'm going to go for sponge bob and Tiny Toons next round. Maybe double hammer Tiny Toons.

 

[KalBalboa]

Some folks were talking about finally getting The Tick, right?

 

[Jado]

I'm up for killing X-Men. I suspect a powerful defense force though. Some people can't look past that shitfest because of all the extraneous merchandise that they drowned their childhoods in. X-Men may just be the Transformers of the 90s.

 

[Gintoki313]

You know what? I'm ready for 90s South Park to get the axe too.

I have other shows I have mild interest in cutting, but I agree- I think it's high time we cut it, and it'd be far less painful and contentious than some of the other shows that could go.

The only reason I haven't voted off South Park yet, is because I remember that South Park Bigger Longer Uncut was released in 1999. That movie was hilarious. It was the first time everyone saw Kenny without his hood, and that song What Would Brian Boitano Do played. The series was just starting to get good near the end of the 90's.

I might vote it off later, but I have to fry some bigger fish before it.

 

[AniHawk]

shows left i don't like:

south park
x-men
courage
animaniacs
batman beyond

don't care either way:

supes
ducktales
dexter's lab
gargoyles
darkwing duck
the tick
reboot
tiny toons
rugrats
dbz

doug almost makes the second list, but after last night there are just enough good things that i remember. the first list are shows that i found generally annoying.

 

[KalBalboa]

I'm up for killing X-Men. I suspect a powerful defense force though. Some people can't look past that shitfest because of all the extraneous merchandise that they drowned their childhoods in. X-Men may just be the Transformers of the 90s.

I wouldn't go that far. X-Men had decent characters, good continuity, and strong themes, not to mention some awesome action and a killer opening.

It's a decent-to-good show, for me. Not top ten, though.