A Human Becoming
More than a Member
This is not true damn it! When I watched it not long ago I found it still quite good.
Tick should go before X-Men. Never watched it and it didn't have one of the best intros ever.
1990's Cartoon Survivor (Do-Over)
- Thread starter TheAbsolution
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Tick should go before X-Men. Never watched it and it didn't have one of the best intros ever.
X-Men isn't perfect, but I rewatched some about a year ago with some friends and we got surprisingly into it, still.
Near the top of a page, so posting again: Darkwing Duck is still on this list and it's just Disney doing Batman with a duck!
We've got Batman, Batman Beyond, Duck Tails, and Gargoyles remaining, too... so why Darkwing?
Near the top of a page, so posting again: Darkwing Duck is still on this list and it's just Disney doing Batman with a duck!
We've got Batman, Batman Beyond, Duck Tails, and Gargoyles remaining, too... so why Darkwing?
Batman: TAS - September 5, 1992 to September 15, 1995
Darkwing Duck September 6, 1991 to August 16, 1995
As you can see, Darkwing Duck came out a full year before Batman. It was an incredible show in its own right and was not following the lead of B:TAS or any other show. While he is inspired by Batman, his design is more inspired by old pulp and comic book heroes like the Shadow and the Sandman, down to his buttoned jacket, style of mask and cape, wide brimmed hat and his gas gun!
Darkwing had an episode inspired by Twin Peaks. The show overall had all sorts of little references that weren't necessarily aimed at children. It was a smart, well-written show that didn't pander to the lowest common denominator nor bait kids into toy-buying frenzies by being a 30-minute commercial. The same CANNOT be said of half the remaining shows in this cartoon survivor showdown. Top-not animation (again, many of the remaining shows don't have this), great voice acting, even better use of Launchpad than Duck Tales!
Another episode involved Gasolyn jumping into the future and finding the city turned into a totalitarian state by an angry, iron-fisted Darkwing who thought he lost his adopted daughter forever. All the citizens and villains(!) cowered in fear of a once-jokish character. I remember reading Kingdom Come and thinking "Hmm, this Batman seems a lot like Darkwing in that one episode...."
Darkwing has mysterious origins and its implied/stated that he was always Darkwing and only invented Drake Mallard, family man, for Gasolyn's sake.
Darkwing's rogues gallery is the BEST of any non-comics kids' cartoon show. Amazing yet, is an unknown, rarely seen group of silhouettes, S.H.U.S.H., who ruled over the villains.
People retroactively fawn over Duck Tales as the superior Disney cartoon show, but anyone awake AT THE TIME knows that Darkwing was as good, if not better in some ways. No one talked up Duck Tales so much at the time; kids hardly cared. The love came in the 2000s due to mainstream nostalgia over the catchy theme song and the triplets.
Darkwing doesnt deserve to win yet, but it doesnt deserve to go either. The show still looks excellent, it's not cringe-worthy like rewatches of X-Men and TMNT. Save the show for another round.
Darkwing Duck September 6, 1991 to August 16, 1995
As you can see, Darkwing Duck came out a full year before Batman. It was an incredible show in its own right and was not following the lead of B:TAS or any other show. While he is inspired by Batman, his design is more inspired by old pulp and comic book heroes like the Shadow and the Sandman, down to his buttoned jacket, style of mask and cape, wide brimmed hat and his gas gun!
Darkwing had an episode inspired by Twin Peaks. The show overall had all sorts of little references that weren't necessarily aimed at children. It was a smart, well-written show that didn't pander to the lowest common denominator nor bait kids into toy-buying frenzies by being a 30-minute commercial. The same CANNOT be said of half the remaining shows in this cartoon survivor showdown. Top-not animation (again, many of the remaining shows don't have this), great voice acting, even better use of Launchpad than Duck Tales!
Another episode involved Gasolyn jumping into the future and finding the city turned into a totalitarian state by an angry, iron-fisted Darkwing who thought he lost his adopted daughter forever. All the citizens and villains(!) cowered in fear of a once-jokish character. I remember reading Kingdom Come and thinking "Hmm, this Batman seems a lot like Darkwing in that one episode...."
Darkwing has mysterious origins and its implied/stated that he was always Darkwing and only invented Drake Mallard, family man, for Gasolyn's sake.
Darkwing's rogues gallery is the BEST of any non-comics kids' cartoon show. Amazing yet, is an unknown, rarely seen group of silhouettes, S.H.U.S.H., who ruled over the villains.
People retroactively fawn over Duck Tales as the superior Disney cartoon show, but anyone awake AT THE TIME knows that Darkwing was as good, if not better in some ways. No one talked up Duck Tales so much at the time; kids hardly cared. The love came in the 2000s due to mainstream nostalgia over the catchy theme song and the triplets.
Darkwing doesnt deserve to win yet, but it doesnt deserve to go either. The show still looks excellent, it's not cringe-worthy like rewatches of X-Men and TMNT. Save the show for another round.
RepairmanJack
Member
Saying Darkwing Duck and Gargoyles are basically Batman is just crazy to me. Makes me think neither show was actually watched, and they're just being boiled down to the most basic possible assumptions to come to that conclusion.
Darkwing was absolutely a love-letter to Batman, even if The Animated Series began a season later. Tim Burton's two films preceded it and Darkwing's rogues gallery is kind of lifted whole-sale, in a lot of ways, from it.
IT's not a bad show, to me, but it's right there in front of us.
I would actually agree that Darkwing Duck is slightly better than Ducktales
It's definitely influenced by Batman though as it's essentially what TAS would be if it didn't take itself seriously.
I remember some pretty meta jokes from it too that were pretty hilarious.
It's definitely influenced by Batman though as it's essentially what TAS would be if it didn't take itself seriously.
I remember some pretty meta jokes from it too that were pretty hilarious.
Kill: Beavis and Butthead
Kill: Beavis and Butthead
Save: Darkwing Duck
Beavis and Butthead was entertaining, but the video cuts were (and still are) annoying. I just wanted to watch the show without interruption, and quite honestly, it was only for the crude humor as a kid. It and early South Park don't hold up well unless you just love toilet humor that much. Beavis' entire shtick was an obsession with toilet paper and making "boiiinng" sounds for an erection.
Darkwing Duck was the best of the Disney block for anyone who truly remembers the Disney cartoon shows and not just blindly going by vague memories. It was dfinitely influenced by the general Batman mythos, but not Batman:TAS itself since Darkwing came before. It is also not a cheap imitation of Batman and went beyond and did its own thing.
Kill: Beavis and Butthead
Save: Darkwing Duck
Beavis and Butthead was entertaining, but the video cuts were (and still are) annoying. I just wanted to watch the show without interruption, and quite honestly, it was only for the crude humor as a kid. It and early South Park don't hold up well unless you just love toilet humor that much. Beavis' entire shtick was an obsession with toilet paper and making "boiiinng" sounds for an erection.
Darkwing Duck was the best of the Disney block for anyone who truly remembers the Disney cartoon shows and not just blindly going by vague memories. It was dfinitely influenced by the general Batman mythos, but not Batman:TAS itself since Darkwing came before. It is also not a cheap imitation of Batman and went beyond and did its own thing.
RepairmanJack
Member
It's not a love-letter it's an all out parody, not just of Batman, but of the whole superhero genre. Saying it needs to go just because it is similar to Batman or other superhero shows is kind of dismissing what it's actually aiming to do. They weren't just trying to make Batman with a duck. If anything I would have said it and Freakazoid were too similar and Freakazoid had to go because it was the lesser of the two when aiming for similar shows.
You guys are good at this. I didn't expect quality posts like these in the thread.
Correct. The Gizmo Duck/Darkwing Duck dynamic was a hilarious and absurd version of Superman/Batman. In the DC comics, one is a beloved symbol of humanity, the other is a dark vigilante. In the Disney cartoon, Gizmo is a mainstream pop icon with awesome powers, Darkwing is a creep weirdo in a costume that gets booed by the public. Here's the "Darkwing Duck action figure":
I realized something about two remaining Disney shows... they're Disney Batmans.
I'm not saying both should be dead by now or go next... but we should consider these things.
To be fair, batman doesn't own the rights to being the protector of a city or world. Darkwing Duck is a tongue and cheek play at superheroes, Disney cartoon style (love Gizmo Duck).
Gargoyles was created with Batman's more adult oriented series theme in mind but it is very different then Batman. It has an ethnically diverse cast, has characters from Shakespere and a broader scope then just protecting one city for a few of the story arcs.
Kill: Beavis and Butthead
Kill: Beavis and Butthead
Save: ReBoot
Beavis and Butthead was the worst kind of cartoon. It was fluffed with them commenting on music videos and the actually fully animated cartoon parts were mostly boring with them just failing at everything. How it can sit on a list with much better shows getting nominated to cut like Darkwing Duck, ReBoot, Gargoyles is crazy.
OH, and Courage the Cowerdly dog....I am gunning for you. That show was so pointless. Regular show does what they tried to do much better with more likable characters.
Kill: Beavis and Butthead
Save: ReBoot
Beavis and Butthead was the worst kind of cartoon. It was fluffed with them commenting on music videos and the actually fully animated cartoon parts were mostly boring with them just failing at everything. How it can sit on a list with much better shows getting nominated to cut like Darkwing Duck, ReBoot, Gargoyles is crazy.
OH, and Courage the Cowerdly dog....I am gunning for you. That show was so pointless. Regular show does what they tried to do much better with more likable characters.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Kill: Reboot
Kill: Reboot
Save: TMNT
Yep, same as last time. Sadly TMNT is goin to be killed.
After this im going to try to save Darkwing and kill Xmen.
EDIT if darkwing is going to need saving at the end of the day i will have to change my vote. DD was awesome and a really intelligent parpdy of the whole super hero genre, something I love.
Kill: Reboot
Save: TMNT
Yep, same as last time. Sadly TMNT is goin to be killed.
After this im going to try to save Darkwing and kill Xmen.
EDIT if darkwing is going to need saving at the end of the day i will have to change my vote. DD was awesome and a really intelligent parpdy of the whole super hero genre, something I love.
I'm getting to the point where it's harder for me to post in here and decide on what I want to kill next.
I have nothing against Darkwing, really, but I'm trying to find a show that I think should be axed next. Would the Darkwing fans in here argue that Ducktales is the weaker Disney duck show?
I have nothing against Darkwing, really, but I'm trying to find a show that I think should be axed next. Would the Darkwing fans in here argue that Ducktales is the weaker Disney duck show?
I would say it is. I would like to see the Tick, Doug and South Park go first though.
What I've come to learn from this thread is that the hive mind has some horrible taste. Suggesting Beavis and Butthead is a bad cartoon? That's just silly. It's fine if you don't understand the breaks in the show where B&B comment on music videos. Those segments have nothing to do with the narrative of the episode, but they are often very funny. The show plays on a lot of stereotypes and it is supposed to be stupid/ridiculous.
For those who keep saying "it doesn't hold up," 99% of these shows don't hold up. Ducktales doesn't hold up. X-men doesn't hold up. The Simpsons doesn't hold up. Batman TAS does not hold up. It is not what it was when I was a child and I don't expect it to be.
Kill: Darkwing Duck
Kill: Darkwing Duck
He's not even the best duck from the 90's. Count Duckula was worlds better than Darkwing Duck.
Save: Beavis and Butthead.
B&B gave us Mike Judge, or vice versa, and that's a lot.I enjoyed the television show, the movie, and the game for sega genesis. B&B is by no means my #1, but it is better than a good portion of the shows left.
For those who keep saying "it doesn't hold up," 99% of these shows don't hold up. Ducktales doesn't hold up. X-men doesn't hold up. The Simpsons doesn't hold up. Batman TAS does not hold up. It is not what it was when I was a child and I don't expect it to be.
Kill: Darkwing Duck
Kill: Darkwing Duck
He's not even the best duck from the 90's. Count Duckula was worlds better than Darkwing Duck.
Save: Beavis and Butthead.
B&B gave us Mike Judge, or vice versa, and that's a lot.I enjoyed the television show, the movie, and the game for sega genesis. B&B is by no means my #1, but it is better than a good portion of the shows left.
I would be fine with Ducktales biting the dust. It was awful show and it makes me sad Carl Barks even created this particular duck universe. I guess even the great ones make mistakes... Well except Don Rosa, he is perfect.
Simpsons only get better with age. I used to hate the first two seasons, but later came to appreciate them and now they rank among the best seasons. Especially the tear jerker episodes grew to me once I was bit older.
RepairmanJack
Member
I would just say this isn't a bracket style tournament. It doesn't have to be one show against another. It doesn't have to be a superhero show against a superhero show or a duck show against a duck show. There doesn't have to be one representative of each style/genre.
Personally I would put Darkwing over Ducktales because I saw Ducktales mostly in reruns and it didn't resonate with me near as much as Darkwing Duck did. I would still put both over a lot of shows left on this list though. I also realize a lot of people would put Ducktales way ahead of Darkwing Duck, I'm only arguing Darkwing is a far better show than you were giving it credit for.
I would conversely say....Does The Tick really belong with a lot of the other stuff left? Cause I would be willing to listen to that argument because I haven't seen anyone talk well abou it yet, but it seems to be ignored.
Batman TAS most definitely holds up. That show is timeless.
Same goes for The Simpsons, Hey Arnold, Gargoyles, Home Movies, Superman TAS, etc... there are a bunch that hold up.
I like Beavis and Butthead though. I watched it again two years ago and it was fucking great. A great cartoon from an era when MTV was still a thing.
Same goes for The Simpsons, Hey Arnold, Gargoyles, Home Movies, Superman TAS, etc... there are a bunch that hold up.
I like Beavis and Butthead though. I watched it again two years ago and it was fucking great. A great cartoon from an era when MTV was still a thing.
I'd say that you might have missed some of the better episodes. A good fraction of that show was weak, but around 1/3 of it was aces. Did you ever see the Benjamin Franklin one about parental groups blaming TV for endangering children? The worker's compensation episode is a riot, too.
If you've ever dug the moral elements of King of the Hill or Mike Judge's societal lens, I'd give some of the better episodes of Beavis and Butthead a chance, even if you still want to kill it. Honestly, this thread has been great for rediscovering hidden gems from my youth and I'd hope to return the favor.
Beavis and Butthead was a great mixture of cartoon violence and strong "dumb guys" humor. When I was in junior high, these two were the funniest things on earth, and the feature film "Do America" is honestly one of the funniest films of the 90s, easy.
Here's are some episodes:
- Shopping Cart: Watching this with my room mates a few years back had us in stitches.
- Worker's Comp: A great Mike Judge take on slackers along with good "idiot humor."
- Nose Bleed: I posted this earlier as an example of a "gross" episode that's still funny. Watching Butthead try to remedy a nose bleed with every wrong household trick still puts me in stitches.
It's fine. Everyone has their own preferences. I know people are trying to ax things and make the list balanced (ala voting off Disney shows or Superhero shows to balance out the Nick Toons voted off) but let's remember.....there can only be ONE. So with that said it doesn't matter how "balanced" people try to vote because we aren't gonna have a list of 5, just one.
I vote shows off that I didn't like as a kid and would not feel obligated to show my kids when I have them. Many of the shows on the list I have a complete series of on DVD or Blu ray in my movie shelf.
My opinion of shows that should be voted off soon:
Beavis and Butthead - already explained why
Spongebob - barely falls under 90s show and was funny less then it was unfunny
Courage the Cowardly Dog - already explained why
The Tick - It was funny but hardly memoriable. Yet another show spoofing heroes.
The Simpsons & Southpark - They don't feel like the same kind of cartoons on the list. All the other shows attempted to appeal to kids young and old but these shows were meant for young adults to adults. Their time slot is a good indicator as well.
I think after these shows it's just gonna be me cutting good shows but until then I wouldn't feel bad loosing these shows.
ЯAW;97338944 said:
I remember the animation being really good, and the theme song being excellent. Gizmo Duck was funny and cool, but the kids, themselves... the main cast...
Webby. Gah.
90s South Park should really be taken under consideration soon, too. It was a different show back then, a really lousy one, too, once you got past the shock value. It got magnitudes better, but it took a few years.
Yea I watched a few episodes as a kid and saw the movie with my uncle. It just never appealed to me. With that being said I hate King of the Hill as well, Daria was alright. My issue with Beavis and Butthead is the same reason I voted out Jonny Bravo, I get bored with characters that all they do is fail. It's also the reason why I hate Coyote and Roadrunner cartoons or Tom and Jerry too.
Jonny Bravo at least entertained me more as a kid. The main characters just being so dumb they bumble from episode to episode gets old for me. I am sure I laughed a few times at their jokes but compared to other shows on the list they just didn't entertain me often enough. Just my wierd sense of humor, lol.
Fair enough. Let's agree that Gargoyles & Darkwing were damn well produced shows and that we should axe South Park soon, heh.
RepairmanJack
Member
The Tick
TMNT
Beavis and Butthead
90's South Park
Those are pretty much the shows I think should go before the top 20. South Park is the only one I like of the list but I think it was better after the 90's.
After the top 20 this shit gets self-inflicted-wounds type hard for me.
TMNT
Beavis and Butthead
90's South Park
Those are pretty much the shows I think should go before the top 20. South Park is the only one I like of the list but I think it was better after the 90's.
After the top 20 this shit gets self-inflicted-wounds type hard for me.
I was huge fan of Barks work and still am, but the whole DuckTales universe felt like giant slap to my face. What annoyed me more was the fact people actually liked the show. Especially in US. Most people in US probably don't even know who Carl Barks and those who do, know him from Ducktales. Every aspect of the show just felt wrong, oh and the show had some horrible voice acting :/
The theme song actually was good, it was catchy as hell. Even I have been caught humming it.
Agreed, lol.
I don't take any of this personal. I know it's all subjective and everyone is not gonna agree. It's just fun talking about my childhood cartoons which is why I am sure this thread exists.
Courage the Dog over TMNT!!
Master Splinter is spinning in his grave.
My inner child refuses to let TMNT go so soon, lol.
Absolutely. I actually found myself pondering "Ok, how on earth do I argue to kill Darkwing Duck or TMNT?" before posting last night, heh.
Part of me wants to abstain from the next few rounds, but then some of my favorites might not even make the top ten. I think if two or three of my dark horses make it that far, I won't even feel the need to vote any more out of contentment.
ЯAW;97338944 said:
That may be nostalgia taking hold. I loved the simpsons back then, but the simpsons just kept getting better. Now it's just kind of that show that has been on forever. I stopped watching the simpsons in the late 90's, then watched a little in the 00's and I was surprised at how it was so developed. In some sense it holds up because it helped build the world that Springfield is now.
I stand by my statement that Batman TAS doesn't hold up.It can't be what it was when I was a kid. I would show it to my kids, but I would watch it passively. Batman is probably in my top 3. I'm not the type of person to go back and watch shows often.
I couldn't vote to kill it, but by not saving it, that is how it will die.
I agree that South Park should be a viable target. Ask anyone what their favourite episodes of South Park are and most of them will give you stuff from the 00's or 10's. It's strongest seasons weren't in the 90's and I don't think it deserves to go any higher.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Kill: Hey Arnold
Kill: The Tick
Save
arkwing Duck
I also loved that episode of DWD where he became all angry in the future. "Gosalyn, I haven't used that old gas gun in years"
There was a few good episodes of The Tick but overall I don't think it was all that great. Didn't it only last like two seasons anyways?
Kill: The Tick
Save
arkwing DuckI also loved that episode of DWD where he became all angry in the future. "Gosalyn, I haven't used that old gas gun in years"
There was a few good episodes of The Tick but overall I don't think it was all that great. Didn't it only last like two seasons anyways?
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Kill: TMNT
Kill: TMNT
Save: Hey Arnold
Kill: TMNT
Save: Hey Arnold
Frustrated_Grunt
Member
Kill:Reboot
Kill:TMNT
Save: Beavis and Butthead
Sorry TMNT, it's nothing personal.
Kill:TMNT
Save: Beavis and Butthead
Sorry TMNT, it's nothing personal.
TheSadRanger
Banned
What's so great about Hey Arnold anyways?
I really don't get why it has a good fan base.
I really don't get why it has a good fan base.
There are very few shows left that I am willing to vote to kill (about 6~7), and of those, there appear to be several sacred cows.
I'll keep hammering away at them, but it will have the net effect of taking my Kill votes out of the competition until these shows start falling. Saves are all I know I have.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I'm probably guilty of this, but talk such as "this should go soon" or "this isn't a top 10 show" should stop. Just let people vote, don't advocate when a show should be removed or declare how high it can go. It diminishes the fun.
That'd defeat the purpose of survivor.
You're joking surely, that's what fun about this thread.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I edited in some details.
As someone posted before, with only 34% required to kick a show off, this hive mentality restricts people voting the way they want.
I find this thread progressively less fun and only two of my personal top 10 have been removed. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
It's the only opportunity people get to discuss the topic of the thread. If all we do is vote this thread would be very boring. Debating over why one should stay and one should go is what makes the stakes higher and this thread stay relevant and not disappear to the abyss.
It's all for fun and there is no "prize" for the winner or any "loss" for the losers so let people petition all they want.
(Until Gargoyles get's voted out, then I will bring this thread down....
jk
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The fun for me is:
A: The discussion of what should go next/childhood memories of these shows
B: Seeing if it goes that way or unravels, leaving something else vulnerable for a last minute snipe
RepairmanJack
Member
I feel like that is alp the fun in this thread. All the politicking. Without it it'd just be a regular vote thread like GOTY or Show of the year.
for one, it has a unique setting for a kids show. instead of being based on a real world, it actually resembles a city. there's garbage and grime. the buildings have been worn down, and it the world feels geniunely lived in. and it's colored with these great watercolor backgrounds.
the music from jim lang is also fantastic. usually jazzy and laid back, but it can also be pretty emotional. it's unlike anything i've heard on the channel before or since. it lends a great style to the show.
of course there's the vocal talent. i don't want to single any one person out since all the kids do a great job, but francesca smith is particularly good as helga. the first and second arnolds on the show are also really good at what they do.
i think what stands out the most though is that it doesn't talk down to its audience. not every ending is a happy one and if it is, there's often a price. in arnold's christmas, helga is left with nothing but the satisfaction of getting arnold to believe in miracles again. it comes at the cost of her material gifts and wanting his affection in return for getting him a great gift. the concept of giving someone a belief for christmas, of indulging an idealist, i don't think i've seen explored in cartoons or television in general until abed's uncontrollable christmas over a decade later.
there are a lot of examples of the protagonists not getting what they want. not totally. it lends to a realistic depiction of childhood. there's also a lot of different family types and they're never pointed out as being different. arnold is raised by his grandparents, helga has a verbally abusive dad and a negligent alcoholic mother, stinky is raised by his single dad, phoebe's parents are an interracial couple, and patti's parents are little people. no one really questions it within the show, until arnold asks about what happens to his own parents.
Awesome write up! I agree 100% with everything you said.
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