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1990's Cartoon Survivor (Do-Over)

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TheAbsolution said:
We were throwing this one around the chamber and I think the best solution is either two kill votes to be used on two different shows or one save that can only be use once during the entire top ten rounds and you have to have voted at least once previously to use it.
What do you think?
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I'm game for the two different kill votes idea, not so much the one save idea because of the requirement.
 
TheAbsolution said:
We were throwing this one around the chamber and I think the best solution is either two kill votes to be used on two different shows or one save that can only be use once during the entire top ten rounds and you have to have voted at least once previously to use it.
What do you think?
Click to expand...

Stop messing with the formula, leave it the way it is...

Edit: or what Kalbalboa said...
 
TheAbsolution said:
We were throwing this one around the chamber and I think the best solution is either two kill votes to be used on two different shows or one save that can only be use once during the entire top ten rounds and you have to have voted at least once previously to use it.
What do you think?
Click to expand...

edit. One kill vote might be better after all.
 
Come on guys, don't allow the the World's Lamest super hero in the top 10. Make the right choice.
i1HIZ6QhABWUg.gif
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TheAbsolution said:
We were throwing this one around the chamber and I think the best solution is either two kill votes to be used on two different shows or one save that can only be use once during the entire top ten rounds and you have to have voted at least once previously to use it.
What do you think?
Click to expand...

either is better than just a single kill vote imo
 
TheAbsolution said:
I think two kills but they have to be used on two different shows idea works the best.
Click to expand...

I think keeping track of saves would be easy enough. Could just tally saves every round and make a list/post that list with the results. If you still wanted to do the "One save to use in all the rounds if you've previously voted" thing.

Threads have search, so finding posts by someone trying to cheat would be pretty simple.


So it would be two kills that have to be used on different shows, and one save to be used in only one round leading up to the Top 3.
 
Kill: Hey! Arnold
Kill: gargoyles

Save: TBD

Gargoyles was good, but it was also kinda dull at times.
Hey! Arnold was never my thing and I think it should have been out several rounds ago.
 
LordCanti said:
I think keeping track of saves would be easy enough. Could just tally saves every round and make a list/post that list with the results. If you still wanted to do the "One save to use in all the rounds if you've previously voted" thing.

Threads have search, so finding posts by someone trying to cheat would be pretty simple.


So it would be two kills that have to be used on different shows, and one save to be used in only one round leading up to the Top 3.
Click to expand...
OK that works for me then.

Let's go with that.
 
AniHawk said:
i did a writeup of rugrats about a year ago:

the history of rugrats is fascinating to me. it starts off so strong and it just gets worse in segments.

the first era of the show is season 1. this is before angelica really came into her own as the antagonist of the group. season 1 was about as close to the original idea that arlene klasky had for the show than anything that came since. remember the episode where they're in the theater, and there's almost no dialogue and it's just animation of babies running amok? that was what rugrats was supposed to be.

once angelica was introduced as the antagonist, everything changed. the focus was less on the animation and more on the writing. she was a brat that you could love to hate, and there were a lot (a lot) of jokes in there that weren't really meant for kids. klasky clashed with the writers over angelica in particular. she didn't want to make angelica a bully, but the writers won out in the end for the first production run of the show. 1991-1994 is the classic era of the show. the passover episode marks the end of it. during the first production run, things got so bad that gabor csupo acted as a mediator between klasky and the writing staff, and most of them left when the show went on hiatus.

when the show came back in 1997, the third big era of the show began, and it's marked with a change of the animation style, increased color saturation, increased reliance on mark mothersbaugh's music and sound effects, and generally less edgy writing. one of the problems klasky had with the original show was that babies did not act like babies. without a writing staff to fight her for 65 episodes, i have to think this was more to her liking. angelica was still a brat, but she was toned down. episodes would end with her learning a lesson instead of being defeated somehow. in general, the writing was a lot less subtle, with characters sometimes outright stating how they feel (and that makes me feel angry).

the next period of the show was when dil was added. this was in 1999, right after the movie, and this is when it started explicitly appealing towards the nick jr. crowd. i stopped watching the show at this point, but i managed to catch some episodes as part of the '90s are all that' and... it's not very good. dil as a character is basically a prop in these episodes, and most episodes deal with the baby (who is too young to communicate with the other babies and toddlers) as a thing to find, since dil is either getting lost or needs to be rescued. the majority of his on-screen time is making unintelligible noises or doing gross baby stuff.

the last era of the show was after the second movie when chuckie's dad marries a french japanese woman and chuckie gets an adopted sister. i haven't seen this part of the show aside from the all growed up episode that aired as the 10th anniversary show- which also serves as a series finale of sorts to rugrats and all grown up since it takes place after that show, i believe. can't really judge the entire era from one episode, but it seems like they got the extreme color saturation under control.

i think it's also fair to include all grown up as part of the series since it serves as a sequel to rugrats. for whatever reason, my sister and a friend and i sat through every episode. to be fair to all grown up, some jokes do land, and there is what i would call one good episode in the whole bunch. but if rugrats kept getting worse after the second era more and more, this was the ultimate culmination of it- and i think it's why we couldn't stop watching. in rugrats, you sorta had a hierarchy- tommy is the leader, chuckie is the cowardly second-in-command, and phil and lil the gruntwork guys who just kinda tag along (and angelica is the antagonist, of course).

in all grown up, there's no hierarchy. the show actually focuses a lot on chuckie a lot more. the characters are all hugely different. i understand that you might not be the same person you were when you were a fictional baby and a fictional preteen, but a lot of the personality traits that defined them were replaced by things they did. tommy went from being the headstrong brave one to kind of a douche filmmaker. dil is a weirdo obsessed with the paranormal- especially aliens. lil has become a normal person while phil is still as weird as he always was (which always bugged me- since the point of lil was that it was okay she was weird and instead they make her like the other girls on the show). susie goes from being a defender of the group to wanting to sing (lots of episodes are devoted to her singing). chuckie gets something of an upgrade and goes from being a coward to being kinda ambitious and eager to try new things.

angelica gets it the worst though. she's a spoiled teen, but never really acts like it. instead of being something of a bully like what was hinted in all growed up, she's more embarrassed to be around the younger guys. it would have been the easiest thing in the world to make her an antagonist who could terrorize the younger group, but she instead just wants to fit in with the popular girls and tries oh-so-hard but just can't. the one good episode i mentioned actually deals with her as a spoiled teen and learning responsibility, and it's out of place for the series, but it's okay because the series sucks.

without an antagonist to sort of anchor the show, it wanders aimlessly and a lot of episodes spend their time on character interactions with each other- which is not bad, but it usually deals with them getting upset with one another and the problem resolving itself at the end of the episode. there's also this 'wah-waaaaaah' effect that mothersbaugh uses, and it will happen at least once per episode.

you can kind of pinpoint when the simpsons went bad, and maybe separate it out into eras too, but this show got progressively worse much quicker and never recovered.
Click to expand...
considering rugrats in the 90s was really only 3 good seasons, i wouldn't mind seeing it kicked off. it's the worst nicktoon left, but there are so many other shows that deserve the boot right now.
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Kill: Rugrats- This post really sways me into voting Rugrats out despite having liked it as a kid. Having rewatched a few episodes from various seasons, I find myself agreeing with a lot of AniHawk's post.
Kill: Rugrats
Save: Dragon Ball Z- just in case.
 
That post made me go "Oh shit...did I just enjoy re-runs of the first seasons over and over?". I have...the vaguest memories of Tommy's brother. Super vague, and those memories seem to mostly be "This kind of ruined the show...didn't it?"
 
BinaryPork2737 said:
Kill: Rugrats- This post really sways me into voting Rugrats out despite having liked it as a kid. Having rewatched a few episodes from various seasons, I find myself agreeing with a lot of AniHawk's post.
Kill: Rugrats
Save: Pending, but probably either DBZ or Supes.
Click to expand...

I'd say both should make top ten.
 
here's my case to save hey arnold:

hey arnold is probably the closest to the simpsons of the remaining shows, and not just because series creator craig bartlett married lisa groening and got dan castellaneta and tress macneille on the show. it's a surreal take on life that's true enough to let you in without suspending your disbelief.

i can't think of too many kids shows that went through the effort of depicting life honestly. doug has mouth-sound-effects, rocko's modern life (as much as i like it) has cartoony sound effects at any opportunity (watch any one episode and listen to the foleying work), dexter's lab is just kind of... there when it needs to be. hey arnold's soundscape is filled with honking horns, barking dogs, sirens, and traffic. it helps ground the show in what is meant to be a version of our world.

the city is littered with garbage, covered in grime, and tagged with graffiti. it fits well with a show that has people mug and hurt one another. it's a detail that's missing from a show like doug. eventually you can start tuning it out. it has the effect of being a kid and how you might not have noticed that was the world around you. this is aided in part by beautiful watercolor backgrounds. it makes the city feel handcrafted and organic.

to bring the world together is the music by jim lang. how perfect is snow for those days you just want to lay back and take it easy, or this piece from arnold's valentine that captures the wistfulness of unrequited love? and that's just a taste of a variety of music with a jazzy, down to earth feel that i've rarely seen represented in animation aside from cowboy bebop.

and it's a show that's nothing without its characters. arnold is an idealist, sure, but that's something that gets him in trouble. he chases his grandfather's watch into the sewers because he feels he's responsible for it (and it turns out grandpa phil actually had a bunch of extras). or in arnold's christmas, he puts so much pressure on himself to find the perfect gift for mr. hyunh that he stops believing in miracles. aside from that, he's a daydreamer, can be pushed to anger, and doesn't always solve everyone's problems (despite being a usually well-meaning kid). he's a much more relatable character than someone like dexter or doug.

the surrounding cast of characters is fantastic. there's oskar kakoshka, an out of work loser who leeches off his wife (among many others); grandpa phil, who doesn't always or can't give arnold the best advice; gerald, arnold's best friend, who is there to balance arnold's idealism with some realism. and then there's the patakis. helga's love-hate relationship with arnold is what leads to a lot of the show's humor and conflict. it also leads to a lot of the show's heart. arnold's christmas and arnold's valentine stand out strongly due to her and her voice acting. what's great about the show is that it shows the entire family and lets the viewer make guesses as to why people are the way they are. helga's ignored at home by a loud, verbally abusive father and an alcoholic mother (and a clueless prodigy of a sister), so she acts out at school as a means for attention.

i also think it's a pretty damn funny show too. a lot of it is pretty dry and rests on delivery. i love the way dan castellaneta as the jolly olly man says 'i am outta here' in his paranoid way as he gets into his truck at the end of 'heat'. or how grandpa phil is trying to cheer arnold up by telling him bad things will pass, and as an example, he casually says 'i knew i made a mistake' when he took a bite of a sandwich with bad ham.

hey arnold is a show i enjoyed when i was a kid, but as i've watched it more and more, it's become an absolute favorite. it's like the animated version of the adventures of pete and pete (except with slightly more and stronger female characters).
 
Arnold's a top 10 show for sure. It's really fantastic.

BinaryPork2737 said:
Doesn't Goku totally lose that fight though? (at least according to the video those gifs are from :P )
Click to expand...

That whole thing is just...ughhh.

Professor Renegade said:
According to the logic that when into making that video, it was the man with limits vs. the limitless man. Superman was bound to win.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong but...Superman...can't breath in space, yeah?
 
A Human Becoming said:
He does, because Superman is broken. He kills Goku after being thrown into the sun, which made him STRONGER.
Click to expand...

Professor Renegade said:
According to the logic that when into making that video, it was the man with limits vs. the limitless man. Superman was bound to win.
Click to expand...

That's ridiculous, stupid, and awesome all at the same time. Still not really a good way to pitch them against each other though.

LordCanti said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but...Superman...can't breath in space, yeah?
Click to expand...

It varies depending on what version you want to go with. In some versions he really doesn't need to breath continuously at all because of "super" stamina.

AniHawk said:
here's my case to save hey arnold:

hey arnold is probably the closest to the simpsons of the remaining shows, and not just because series creator craig bartlett married lisa groening and got dan castellaneta and tress macneille on the show. it's a surreal take on life that's true enough to let you in without suspending your disbelief.

i can't think of too many kids shows that went through the effort of depicting life honestly. doug has mouth-sound-effects, rocko's modern life (as much as i like it) has cartoony sound effects at any opportunity (watch any one episode and listen to the foleying work), dexter's lab is just kind of... there when it needs to be. hey arnold's soundscape is filled with honking horns, barking dogs, sirens, and traffic. it helps ground the show in what is meant to be a version of our world.

the city is littered with garbage, covered in grime, and tagged with graffiti. it fits well with a show that has people mug and hurt one another. it's a detail that's missing from a show like doug. eventually you can start tuning it out. it has the effect of being a kid and how you might not have noticed that was the world around you. this is aided in part by beautiful watercolor backgrounds. it makes the city feel handcrafted and organic.

to bring the world together is the music by jim lang. how perfect is snow for those days you just want to lay back and take it easy, or this piece from arnold's valentine that captures the wistfulness of unrequited love? and that's just a taste of a variety of music with a jazzy, down to earth feel that i've rarely seen represented in animation aside from cowboy bebop.

and it's a show that's nothing without its characters. arnold is an idealist, sure, but that's something that gets him in trouble. he chases his grandfather's watch into the sewers because he feels he's responsible for it (and it turns out grandpa phil actually had a bunch of extras). or in arnold's christmas, he puts so much pressure on himself to find the perfect gift for mr. hyunh that he stops believing in miracles. aside from that, he's a daydreamer, can be pushed to anger, and doesn't always solve everyone's problems (despite being a usually well-meaning kid). he's a much more relatable character than someone like dexter or doug.

the surrounding cast of characters is fantastic. there's oskar kakoshka, an out of work loser who leeches off his wife (among many others); grandpa phil, who doesn't always or can't give arnold the best advice; gerald, arnold's best friend, who is there to balance arnold's idealism with some realism. and then there's the patakis. helga's love-hate relationship with arnold is what leads to a lot of the show's humor and conflict. it also leads to a lot of the show's heart. arnold's christmas and arnold's valentine stand out strongly due to her and her voice acting. what's great about the show is that it shows the entire family and lets the viewer make guesses as to why people are the way they are. helga's ignored at home by a loud, verbally abusive father and an alcoholic mother (and a clueless prodigy of a sister), so she acts out at school as a means for attention.

i also think it's a pretty damn funny show too. a lot of it is pretty dry and rests on delivery. i love the way dan castellaneta as the jolly olly man says 'i am outta here' in his paranoid way as he gets into his truck at the end of 'heat'. or how grandpa phil is trying to cheer arnold up by telling him bad things will pass, and as an example, he casually says 'i knew i made a mistake' when he took a bit of a sandwich with bad ham.

hey arnold is a show i enjoyed when i was a kid, but as i've watched it more and more, it's become an absolute favorite. it's like the animated version of the adventures of pete and pete (except with slightly more and stronger female characters).
Click to expand...

Hey Arnold is so good. This episode is one of the ones I really remember.
 
I've been in and out of this thread since its inception and looking at what it's been whittled down to makes it there were too many hate votes. Rocky lasting this long is just wrong. It had the perfect blend of inoffensiveness to apparently everyone to never get voted out, yet in truth it's not nearly as iconic or memorable as shows like ren and stimpy or tailspin.
 
i didn't realize season 4 was part of the 90s. that means helga on the couch is part of the 90s. helga on the couch is great

Dali said:
I've been in and out of this thread since its inception and looking at what it's been whittled down to makes it there were too many hate votes. Rocky lasting this long is just wrong. It had the perfect blend of inoffensiveness to apparently everyone to never get voted out, yet in truth it's not nearly as iconic or memorable as shows like ren and stimpy or tailspin.
Click to expand...

i think rocko's modern life is legitimately funny, but it's carried mostly on the shoulders of heffer and filbert.
 
That all these shows are just ON youtube is....fucking great. It really is. Try to watch a Comedy Central clip from yesterday and NOPE FUCK YOU, but every episode of every big childhood cartoon anyone ever loved is probably on there.
 
Dali said:
I've been in and out of this thread since its inception and looking at what it's been whittled down to makes it there were too many hate votes. Rocky lasting this long is just wrong. It had the perfect blend of inoffensiveness to apparently everyone to never get voted out, yet in truth it's not nearly as iconic or memorable as shows like ren and stimpy or tailspin.
Click to expand...

Yeah,well,that'just,like,youropinion,man.gif

I also don't see what makes Tailspin iconic or memorable. Rocko's was fun show and far better show then Tailspin. And that's my opinion. I don't think it should make far once it makes it way to top ten, but it deserves a spot there since Daria and Ren & Stimpy won't cut it.
 
LordCanti said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but...Superman...can't breath in space, yeah?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'm not a big enough fan of Superman to know the answer to this. My best guess though would be that if he absorbs enough power from the sun then he can probably do literally anything.

That, or he is super good at holding his breath.
 
After the 00's (in case anyone reads this and hates it and thinks it pertains to this thread), Goku gets the power to warp himself (and anyone touching him) anywhere instantly. This includes warping into/out of the afterlife and, more importantly, far far away from any suns that might give Superman power.

I...

Why do I care about this again?
 
LordCanti said:
After the 00's (in case anyone reads this and hates it and thinks it pertains to this thread), Goku gets the power to warp himself (and anyone touching him) anywhere instantly. This includes warping into/out of the afterlife and, more importantly, far far away from any suns that might give Superman power.

I...

Why do I care about this again?
Click to expand...

Doesn't Goku need to concentrate really hard to do that though?
 
LordCanti said:
After the 00's (in case anyone reads this and hates it and thinks it pertains to this thread), Goku gets the power to warp himself (and anyone touching him) anywhere instantly. This includes warping into/out of the afterlife and, more importantly, far far away from any suns that might give Superman power.

I...

Why do I care about this again?
Click to expand...

Because GT.
 
ЯAW;98027822 said:
Same goes for Goku. Sure he gets beat up now and then, but he will always return stronger and faster. Superman and Goku are equally lame heroes. At least Superman universe has some interesting bad guys.
Click to expand...
Goku can actually be killed and has to work to become stronger and faster. Superman is just naturally powerful. I think Frieza and Vegeta are iconic.

As I was telling KalBalboa, a problem I see with Superman in cartoons is writers power him down at the beginning of fight. For no reason, other than tension, he slows down and can't take a hit. Then after he's knocked around enough he comes back to easily defeat the foe.

There's a reason why they have trouble making a good video game based on him. There's no progression to his strength and ability. Unless there's kryptonite around he's always at 100% until the writers decide otherwise. Remember people, in TAS he doesn't need to EAT!
 
Professor Renegade said:
Doesn't Goku need to concentrate really hard to do that though?
Click to expand...

Not that hard, no. It's one of my least favorite aspects about 00's DBZ; He fights for fun. Once he can warp, he could just do to every enemy what he did to cell. He only dies warping Cell to King Kai's planet because he'd feel like a dick if he let King Kai die alone, and he only doesn't warp people because he reaalllllyyyy wants to fight them. Which is...endearing to a point, I guess. Less so when people are getting slaughtered on Earth or the planet is in danger of being destroyed.


Edit: He's always enjoyed fighting, even in DB. It's just that the stakes were wayyyyy lower when he was fighting then, so it was less....nutty.
Hasardeur said:
let's just kill both shows and move on
Click to expand...

I like both shows, that would be madness. Let's kill shows no one has even used a save on yet.... Gargoyles and Rugrats.
 
KILL : DBZ
KILL: DBZ
SAVE : Superman TAS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0pcChyV6o4

watch that clip and tell me with a straight face that Superman isn't the superior show to DBZ. I notice nobody is actually voting for the shows they think are the best, more like which shows need to be put down because someone else voted for something they didn't like so now it's a whole cycle of retaliation because so and so voted for this show so I'll show him by voting for his favorite show to eliminate it.
 
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