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[whytemyke]

He's not being forced out, either. I remember watching the damn episode when he was talking about his contract and deciding that he figured in five years he'd be ready to quit, so he went to lengths to make sure Conan was his successor because he "still feels terrible about what happened" with him and Dave. He went to NBC with that during the contract negotiations, who at the time have him a lifetime pass essentially. But he said no thanks.

Got all the hallelujahs of the legioned angels for that shit, too.

Then guess what he did five years later.

 

[Scrooged]

Is this Leno's evil twin?

 

[Odrion]

I like Louis CK's view of the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJaTZssPTsA&feature=player_detailpage#t=5182

 

[CreepingFear]

So how long before NBC fires Fallon and brings back Leno?

 

[arab]

 

[Camp Lo]

I like Louis CK's view of the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJaTZssPTsA&feature=player_detailpage#t=5182

Pretty much my sentiment. `

 

[Particle Physicist]

He's not being forced out, either. I remember watching the damn episode when he was talking about his contract and deciding that he figured in five years he'd be ready to quit, so he went to lengths to make sure Conan was his successor because he "still feels terrible about what happened" with him and Dave. He went to NBC with that during the contract negotiations, who at the time have him a lifetime pass essentially. But he said no thanks.

Got all the hallelujahs of the legioned angels for that shit, too.

Then guess what he did five years later.

Yeah, in the interview he basically says that they blindsided him with the Conan thing, and implies they did it again with Fallon. That just does not pass the smell test at all. Why would they blindside the #1 late-night guy who has been at it for so long? He acts as if he has no pull in the network.

 

[effzee]

The way I understood it, Conan's contract was almost up and NBC didn't want to lose him because he was doing great in the later time slot.

So when they were re working Leno's contract, he himself said ok I got about 5 years left after which I guess it will be time to pass the torch. When that time came I guess he changed his mind. To make matters worse, Conan did struggle. Leno's new time slot was doing well and Conan struggled. NBC panicked and asked him "umm can you come back?" to which Leno said HELL YEAH!

I guess he screwed Conan in that he didn't tell NBC to leave it be and let Conan find his footing. No they were quick to go back and he went along with it.

I hope the same thing isn't happening here. Contracts probably did lead to this new makeover with Fallon possibly leaving NBC, something again NBC did not want to have to go through.

Terry Bradshaw, the ex NFL player and current tv host, was on a local NYC sports radio show earlier today and he is apparently best buds with Leno and he was super salty. He basically said NBC is stupid and are forcing him out again and how Fallon won't be able to succeed in his shoes. Fallon might not have the great ratings right away but in time I think he will.

 

[CreepingFear]

The question is will NBC give Fallon more time than they gave Conan? I guess they have to this time since last time they had Leno under contract still.

 

[Ripclawe]

The question is will NBC give Fallon more time than they gave Conan? I guess they have to this time since last time they had Leno under contract still.

Yes, because they have no backup plan at this point. Plus I have a feeling Fallon has more respect for the history of the tonight show and what it means to late night than Conan ever did.

Conan moved to the 11:30 slot and just shoved all his 12:30 material without changing it and it wasn't the same type of audience. You are playing to middle america and all parts to the left and right. Conan refused to change and his ratings suffered for it that they had to bring Jay back.

Jay show at 10 tanked so hard, affiliates went to NBC demanding they fix it.

 

[Blader]

Yeah, in the interview he basically says that they blindsided him with the Conan thing, and implies they did it again with Fallon. That just does not pass the smell test at all. Why would they blindside the #1 late-night guy who has been at it for so long? He acts as if he has no pull in the network.

The first time it was because NBC didn't want to lose Conan to another network. This time it's because they want to get Fallon in before they give up too much of a lead to Kimmel; the thought is that Kimmel has more years left in him than Leno does, and if NBC waits until Leno leaves because he's physically incapable of performing anymore, then his successor would have a huge uphill battle against Kimmel.

Yes, because they have no backup plan at this point. Plus I have a feeling Fallon has more respect for the history of the tonight show and what it means to late night than Conan ever did.

:lol, that's absurd. He quit his dream job because he thought a half hour delay would harm the brand. How is that a lack of respect for the Tonight Show? If anything he was too respectful of it.

 

[CzarTim]

The way I understood it, Conan's contract was almost up and NBC didn't want to lose him because he was doing great in the later time slot.

So when they were re working Leno's contract, he himself said ok I got about 5 years left after which I guess it will be time to pass the torch. When that time came I guess he changed his mind. To make matters worse, Conan did struggle. Leno's new time slot was doing well and Conan struggled. NBC panicked and asked him "umm can you come back?" to which Leno said HELL YEAH!

I guess he screwed Conan in that he didn't tell NBC to leave it be and let Conan find his footing. No they were quick to go back and he went along with it.

Conan's contract was a $40 million buyout, Leno's was well over $100 million. Deciding to go with Leno was a simple math problem.

Yes, because they have no backup plan at this point. Plus I have a feeling Fallon has more respect for the history of the tonight show and what it means to late night than Conan ever did.

Conan moved to the 11:30 slot and just shoved all his 12:30 material without changing it and it wasn't the same type of audience. You are playing to middle america and all parts to the left and right. Conan refused to change and his ratings suffered for it that they had to bring Jay back.

Hilarious post considering how much Conan both revered the Tonight Show and how much he changed up his formula to be more broad. He started focusing on longer monologues a couple of years before the switch.

Let's not forget that both Carson and Leno struggled immensely when they started hosting the show. Letterman beat Leno for a couple of years before Leno found his footing. Conan just needed time.

 

[Nephtis]

I used to be a big fan of Leno until I discovered Ferguson in 2009. I have not seen Leno once. Leno was especially great during the 90s and early 2000s. I honestly think that Leno's ratings success lies solely on his familiarity, since he's been on air for so long.

David Letterman is a great interviewer but a terrible comedian. Jimmy Fallon is a great guy, I would absolutely love to hang out with him, but he tries too hard. Conan is a little too forceful for my tastes, but he was the best replacement for Leno.

What Leno did to Conan was pretty terrible, mainly because it wasn't just Conan that had to move -- he brought the vast majority of his staff, and Conan was responsible for them.

Ferguson just doesn't give a crap, he's happy where he is, and I actually have fun with his show on all fronts. I mean, his raw honesty is what attracts me to watch his show.

 

[Lijik]

this thread is too much

 

[Fun Factor]

Conan's my favorite host but he seems like a bigger asshole than Jay. Whether it's Conan's comedy style, how Conan treats his underlings, or how he handled the half-hour pushback, etc. But the comedy world is pretty goddamn petty especially when it comes to Leno vs Letterman

I agree with this. Conan screwed Conan.
He would have kept his job as host of the Tonight Show, but he just had to throw a tantrum.

 

[ronito]

If you have a pile on money, can you really claim you're screwed?

 

[vatstep]

I used to be a big fan of Leno until I discovered Ferguson in 2009. I have not seen Leno once. Leno was especially great during the 90s and early 2000s. I honestly think that Leno's ratings success lies solely on his familiarity, since he's been on air for so long.

I agree with this. I used to watch both NBC shows most nights back around that time. For the last ten years or so, and even more so since his return, though, the show has been awful. So much of his material is just ganked from the internet.

I like Fallon and am looking forward to his show; I just can't stand how much of a shameless ass-kisser he is to so many of his guests. Some of it is genuine admiration, sure, but so much of it is just egregious brown-nosing.

 

[JasonUresti]

He's not being forced out, either. I remember watching the damn episode when he was talking about his contract and deciding that he figured in five years he'd be ready to quit, so he went to lengths to make sure Conan was his successor because he "still feels terrible about what happened" with him and Dave. He went to NBC with that during the contract negotiations, who at the time have him a lifetime pass essentially. But he said no thanks.

Got all the hallelujahs of the legioned angels for that shit, too.

Then guess what he did five years later.

Leno was gracious and was a good company guy in public about it but yes he was forced out and wasn't happy about it. He chose not to throw tantrums like some others did.

 

[CzarTim]

Reminder: Jay Leno snuck into an NBC boardroom and hid in the closet so he could spy on the executives during the Letterman fiasco. Then he proudly bragged about it. Dude is a sociopath.

 

[Plinko]

I give Fallon 8 months before NBC puts Leno back in at the Tonight Show.

I see absolutely zero chance Fallon resonates with the traditionally older viewers of that show.

 

[MarauderShields]

I give Fallon 8 months before NBC puts Leno back in at the Tonight Show.

I see absolutely zero chance Fallon resonates with the traditionally older viewers of that show.

Well he has a better chance of making it than Conan since he wont have The Jay Leno Show as his lead in

 

[TS-08]

The way I understood it, Conan's contract was almost up and NBC didn't want to lose him because he was doing great in the later time slot.

So when they were re working Leno's contract, he himself said ok I got about 5 years left after which I guess it will be time to pass the torch. When that time came I guess he changed his mind. To make matters worse, Conan did struggle. Leno's new time slot was doing well and Conan struggled. NBC panicked and asked him "umm can you come back?" to which Leno said HELL YEAH!

I guess he screwed Conan in that he didn't tell NBC to leave it be and let Conan find his footing. No they were quick to go back and he went along with it.

I hope the same thing isn't happening here. Contracts probably did lead to this new makeover with Fallon possibly leaving NBC, something again NBC did not want to have to go through.

Terry Bradshaw, the ex NFL player and current tv host, was on a local NYC sports radio show earlier today and he is apparently best buds with Leno and he was super salty. He basically said NBC is stupid and are forcing him out again and how Fallon won't be able to succeed in his shoes. Fallon might not have the great ratings right away but in time I think he will.

I'm fairly certain Leno's new show was tanking big time. In fact I thought it got so bad that local affiliates were threatening to replace it with reruns of old sitcoms because they thought their local news programs were suffering from the poor lead-in.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I'm fairly certain Leno's new show was tanking big time. In fact I thought it got so bad that local affiliates were threatening to replace it with reruns of old sitcoms because they thought their local news programs were suffering from the poor lead-in.

Yeah, Leno's show was bombing. And considering it was on 5 nights a week, no one was happy.

 

[gutter_trash]

Leno is no Johnny Carson

I never watched the Tonight Show with Leno, after Carson left. i went with Dave who was supposed to have had the job

NBC screwed Dave. Thankfully CBS came into play.

then Conan was born on Late Night, the messiah

 

[bronson]

I'm dying. Why is this so funny?

 

[Elwood Blues]

If a young Johnny Carson had the interviewing skills of a potted plant then Jay's comment about Jimmy Fallon would have made much more since.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Conan's agent screwed Conan more than Jay did. Jay's agent negotiated a far better contract which made it more financially acceptable for NBC to keep Jay and ditch Conan.

Leno's 10PM show as actually doing the ratings NBC expected (they were willing to sacrifice normal prime time ratings for the cheaper cost of doing a talk show) they just didn't anticipate the affiliate backlash.


I think at this point NBC has finally realized that the Tonight Show is not what it used to be, and never will be. The ratings will never return to where they were, so they are willing to take the ratings hit in order to get rid of the expensive Leno and replace him with a cheaper Fallon. And if they get a few more viewers from a younger demo along with it, that's icing on the cake. This isn't 2004 anymore. Back then NBC was afraid that either Leno or Conan would walk to ABC or Fox and kill their ratings, so they made this foolish plan to keep both. I doubt Fox is even interested in the investment it would take to get Leno on late night on their network anymore.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

I know i'm in the minority, but I like Jay Leno. he has been #1 for most of my entire lifetime for a reason. Plus he is an actual comic. I like Letterman, Conan, and everybody really. Fuck I even think Carson Daly did a decent job!

 

[Cat Party]

I'm kind of bummed the thread title was edited.

It should have been preserved like the cultural treasure it was.

 

[Jonm1010]

I think the problem with the tonight show is its become an old persons show.

I don't think any young star can come in and duplicate the success leno has had IMO.

Fallon, Like Conan, is a young persons show. And with that is gonna come less ratings due to the role the internet, youtube, dvr and the fickle nature of teens and young adults have with television today. They aren't gonna religiously tune in at 1030 every weeknight and old people aren't gonna magically fall in love with a guy that is aiming his jokes and references at a generation that most of them have little understanding of.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if NBC either goes in a completely other direction with the tonight show in a half decade or so or it ends up dying altogether.

 

[Tritroid]

Holy shit, in the video clip in the article, Jay Leno praises the crap out of Fallon.

He called him "a young Johnny". Come on, people.

Ugh, Fallon is not even in the same league as Carson, not by a long shot. Even suggesting that is laughable.

Either Leno has gone senile, or he's trying to exit as the good guy this time around after the Conan incident.

 

[inm8num2]

Mandatory reading.

 

[DarkFlow]

I'm not going to watch the Tonight Show after Leno's gone. Real talk.

I would've been fine if Conan took over, but I don't care for Jimmy Fallon.

I have boycotted since he came back. I migbt finally give it a go when Jimmy takes over. Also I want to watch the train wreck Seth will be. They all suck at the start.

 

[Blader]

Ugh, Fallon is not even in the same league as Carson, not by a long shot. Even suggesting that is laughable.

Either Leno has gone senile, or he's trying to exit as the good guy this time around after the Conan incident.

The Carson comparison is because Fallon is more theatrical and playful than Leno.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I think the problem with the tonight show is its become an old persons show.

I don't think any young star can come in and duplicate the success leno has had IMO.

Fallon, Like Conan, is a young persons show. And with that is gonna come less ratings due to the role the internet, youtube, dvr and the fickle nature of teens and young adults have with television today. They aren't gonna religiously tune in at 1030 every weeknight and old people aren't gonna magically fall in love with a guy that is aiming his jokes and references at a generation that most of them have little understanding of.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if NBC either goes in a completely other direction with the tonight show in a half decade or so or it ends up dying altogether.

I think Kimmel has done a good job of adapting. His show is very much geared towards bite sized clips and skits that are very "youtube-able". I wouldn't be surprised if he outpaces Fallon's Tonight Show and becomes the clear Late Night leader for the next few years, not that that means as much as it used to.

 

[b&jy77VjiKn$#F]

 

[Rell]

Jimmy Fallon is going to struggle at the 11:30 slot.

He's gotten more professional about things, but his appeal came when he (and his writers - whatever) learned to embrace his sort of good natured disorganization. He's not going to be able to botch and bumble his way through monologues and interviews and hope to get by. And this sloppiness was a huge part of what made him fun to watch.

Jimmy was never as good as Conan. And Conan has never been better than when he was on Late Night. It's something about the scale, weight, and budget at 12:30 that brings out the best in these sort of "wild card" types.

I remember when Howard Stern came on Fallon's show and pretty much explained to him and pretty much went "You know the kind of people who go to sleep after The Tonight Show? They won't understand any of this."

 

[Sol..]

I thought I was the only one, Jimmy Fallon has always annoyed the crap out of me since I first saw him on Saturday Night Live.

I HATED him back in the SNL days. However, when it comes to late night talk shows. He's got the goods.

 

[Clydefrog]

I'm kind of bummed the thread title was edited.

It should have been preserved like the cultural treasure it was.

JayLeon

 

[MrCunningham]

In all honesty, I don't think Conan was a good fit for the Tonight Show, he just felt too constraint in that NBC time slot. Where he is right now with TBS just suits him so much better.

The same thing happened with Letterman in the early 90's, but I honestly think Letterman got a much better deal in the end at CBS.

 

[Toa TAK]

I want to see ALL of the Late-Night hosts/Resident Evil me-mes.

 

[Hellion]

Does gaf really watch these late shows. Like religiously?

Leno does have a long dedicated following.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Does gaf really watch these late shows. Like religiously?

Leno does have a long dedicated following.

They're like video games.

No one actually watches them. They just like talking about them, because it's more interesting.

 

[DarkFlow]

Yes, because they have no backup plan at this point. Plus I have a feeling Fallon has more respect for the history of the tonight show and what it means to late night than Conan ever did.

Conan moved to the 11:30 slot and just shoved all his 12:30 material without changing it and it wasn't the same type of audience. You are playing to middle america and all parts to the left and right. Conan refused to change and his ratings suffered for it that they had to bring Jay back.

Jay show at 10 tanked so hard, affiliates went to NBC demanding they fix it.

Da fuck? Conan loved The Tonight Show more then life it self. Fallon likes it because Lorne Michaels told him he should. Also did we watch the same shows, because Conan was hamstrung at 11:30. He had to ditch most of his Staples like masturbating Bear so as not to offend the old people who watch that slot. He only got good the last week when he knew he was done and did not give a fuck anymore. Lol like him playing super bowl clips, and playing rolling Stone music so NBC had to pay for it.

 

[inm8num2]

Conan did more with The Tonight Show in 7 months than Leno did in 20+ years.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Couple of points:

- In the beginning of Jay's run, he was consistently beat by Dave, NBC gave him a significant amount of time to build up his own tonight show franchise.

- NBC killing off all their 10pm shows to make room for Leno destroyed a ton of the lead-in audience, which directly effected Conan.

- It was Conan who was willing to walk away from the Tonight Show, had he stayed he would've both hurt the Tonight Show accepting the time-slot change and possibly destroyed both Fallon and the Late Night franchise.

- Multiple articles after Jay's return pointed to his ratings being pretty close with Conan's, with Letterman beating him for awhile. Leno's ratings did improve...but much of it after NBC rebuilt their 10pm programming block.

Jay Leno isn't a bad guy, but between him and Conan, which one acted in the best interest of the Tonight Show/Late Night/Fallon? Which one you think Carson would have sided with?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Da fuck? Conan loved The Tonight Show more then life it self. Fallon likes it because Lorne Michaels told him he should. Also did we watch the same shows, because Conan was hamstrung at 11:30. He had to ditch most of his Staples like masturbating Bear so as not to offend the old people who watch that slot. He only got good the last week when he knew he was done and did not give a fuck anymore. Lol like him playing super bowl clips, and playing rolling Stone music so NBC had to pay for it.

Him "loving the tonight show more than life itself" is why he fucked himself over chasing it. The Tonight Show didn't mean anything anymore. Conan put it on a pedastal where it didn't belong. Nobody remembers Carson anymore. The Tonight Show is what Leno turned it into. Conan making all these concessions to chase after that was stupid. The show is pointless. Seinfeld had a great quote about that where he basically says that the Tonight Show name is meaningless. Nobody calls it that. People just say "I'm going to NY to do Dave, or to LA to do Leno or Conan".

And that stuff Conan did towards the end of his run with "screwing" NBC was completely staged. The show isn't live.

 

[DrForester]

Just hope Leno can get "Jay's Garage" a TV show.

In the early planning for Top Gear USA they approached Leno, but he turned it down.

 

[DarkFlow]

Him "loving the tonight show more than life itself" is why he fucked himself over chasing it. The Tonight Show didn't mean anything anymore. Conan put it on a pedastal where it didn't belong. Nobody remembers Carson anymore. The Tonight Show is what Leno turned it into. Conan making all these concessions to chase after that was stupid. The show is pointless. Seinfeld had a great quote about that where he basically says that the Tonight Show name is meaningless. Nobody calls it that. People just say "I'm going to NY to do Dave, or to LA to do Leno or Conan".

And that stuff Conan did towards the end of his run with "screwing" NBC was completely staged. The show isn't live.

I know, it was still funny and he would never have done any of it had he kept the show.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Fallon comes across as that annoying dork in high school who decided to play football and tries to be funny and loud, and hangs with the cool kids.

I've heard when Eddie Murphy hosted snl, he threatened Fallon not to laugh during skits, because, well, Fallon was known to crack up.

edit-actually I don't think that was a rumor. I could've sworn I read that awhile back.