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[EmCeeGramr]

People try to replicate scanline, blurring, color bleeding, and curvature effects for the same reason they replicate glitches and slowdown and sprite flickering. They're trying to emulate the game as it was released and played by the majority of people, which was on awful CRTs.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I love the retro-ish look scanlines give to games.

And I didn't know you could enable them in modern games (if I am reading that KOF 13 picture right)? Man, I am so excited to finish building my gaming PC.

 

[Jucksalbe]

I like scanlines, but NTSC filters? Ugh, should at least do PAL filters, not sure why you'd want NTSC colors.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

In scaling mode, maybe. Otherwise:

I trust Fudoh on the subject of video processors, and he has said several times that the ~24ms base delay applies to all modes on the mini.

To be perfectly honest, that's good for most HDTV setups, as a properly configured mini will usually yield better results when it comes to delay than hooking up a retro console straight to the TV through composite, as your average HDTV does not deinterlace or scale images that well.

But my reasoning is, if you're willing to throw down triple digit prices on a high-end retro gaming setup, it doesn't make sense to compromise on this when you don't have to.

I'm partial to this GTU shader:

http://i.imgur.com/cUWbYCA.png

Near the bottom of this post.

This is a filter I think I'd be comfortable using. A soft but not too blurry image. Scanlines that are subtle and not jarring. Not too bad.

 

[Tain]

I have to agree about the scaler stuff. I can't see myself getting one over going full SD CRT.

Big images ahead to show what I normally use.

This right here:

is better-looking (not even bringing up authenticity, take note) to this right here:

 

[Yes Boss!]

People try to replicate scanline, blurring, color bleeding, and curvature effects for the same reason they replicate glitches and slowdown and sprite flickering. They're trying to emulate the game as it was released and played by the majority of people, which was on awful CRTs.

And you would be wrong. Most folks who go for that are trying to emulate an arcade monitor look. Some folks do that by getting good CRTs and going the RGB route while others attempt it in emulation on LCD displays.

Back in the day there was ALWAYS an acute awarenwess that arcade monitors were different...higher quality. It was the gold standard.

 

[russian box]

So you guys haven't been to the Retroarch emulator thread right? Alright cool check these out.

sweet, thanks for the link!

 

[baphomet]

I'm not big on emulation, but even today the best way to pay retro consoles is on a CRT in rgb. I've yet to see any filters that come anywhere near what games actually look like on a CRT.

That being said, I prefer very subtle scanlines if I am playing something emulated on a new display. GGPO being the main time I'm playing something on an emulator.

 

[Vipershark]

1st is simple 4x, second is HQ4x

HQ4X is the WORST filter you could ever use and makes games look HIDEOUS.
I'd much rather take bilinear blurring and feel like I'm trying to play a game with glaucoma than use this crap.

 

[Gaogaogao]

Hate this fake ass bullshit.

scan lines and filters are distracting.

 

[Outright Villainy]

It definitely seems necessary to have scanlines or some other form of filter when playing on high res monitors, they just look awful otherwise.

I really like the unfiltered image of 3DS virtual console games though, the low resolution suits it well, since it's 1:1, and even if its a little sharper it still looks great. To me Sonic looks better on 3DS than it ever did on Megadrive.

Example.

 

[ichtyander]

In my case, I'm trying to emulate the irregularities of the old hardware because it gave the image a look that gave the impression there was more to those graphics than it seems. All of those arcade games I used to play looked very meaty, with huge, smooth sprites, vivid colors and loud attract screens. Even the cut off edges on some CRTs gave me the impression of there being more unseen stuff back there, an infinite magical projection behind the glass.

In part it's full on nostalgia glasses mode, but to me it's also emulating the look of almost no square pixels but blobs of color. The only TV in my house is still a huge ass CRT and while most of these filters don't imitate the look exactly, they can sometimes deliver the pixel smoothing nicely.

The thing is, if I were playing this in the native resolution, I'd never even think about filtering the image:

I'm even kind of ok with 2x nearest neighbour, that's how I mostly remember playing DOS games anyway:

But blowing up an arcade game to fullscreen on my monitor gives me almost undecipherable blocks (for example, the ornaments on the top of the columns become complete nonsense to me):

I can understand why people like the clearness but to me any pixel art that's overly resized looks pretty bad.

Anyway, I grew up on the C64 and couldn't be happier when PAL filters started being implemented. I got no love for unfiltered C64 graphics with the wrong color palette.

 

[ScOULaris]

I love me a good NTSC filter for NES, SNES, and Genesis emulation. For everything else (e.g. older arcade games, PS1, N64), I prefer subtle scanlines or a simple full-screen smoothing filter to dull he sharp pixel edges slightly.

But yeah, in general I'm a big supporter of filters that come close to replicating the feel of classic CRT monitors and TV's.

People try to replicate scanline, blurring, color bleeding, and curvature effects for the same reason they replicate glitches and slowdown and sprite flickering. They're trying to emulate the game as it was released and played by the majority of people, which was on awful CRTs.

I can't agree with the sentiment of this post at all. Games were designed with CRT's in mind back then, and pixel-art stuff like SNES/Genesis looks much better with a filter that brings it closer to what the game was designed for. Colors look all wrong in some games without a CRT filter because they were designed to display a certain way on the screens of yore.

 

[My words exactly!]

Just a heads up, retroarch & Wii & CRT = epic

Check here for pics:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92417755&postcount=511
btw it's on v1.0.1 now

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

I can't agree with the sentiment of this post at all. Games were designed with CRT's in mind back then, and pixel-art stuff like SNES/Genesis looks much better with a filter that brings it closer to what the game was designed for. Colors look all wrong in some games without a CRT filter because they were designed to display a certain way on the screens of yore.

Isn't that what he basically said?

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Haven't seen convincing scanlines in person so usually avoid them, prefer plain bilinear filtering over the horrible sharp unfiltered look. It's closer how I'd have wanted to play back in the day.

 

[MilesWebber]

EDIT: I mean, look at this shit:

Probably nothing was a bigger pet peeve of mine as a young gamer than this. That's one level of "authenticity" that I'm more than happy to leave dead and buried forever.

Yes! Trying to play Another World and the bottom platforms were obscured under the rim of the TV. I remember hitting traps and being like WTF! I can't even see them!

 

[Ashariel]

I like a good CRT filter with 25% scanlines. Not the perfect solution, but it takes you back while not hindering the image too much like our old televisions used to do.

 

[moniker]

You show me something with fake scanlines and do you know what it looks like to me? Fake scanlines.

This could change though. With a high res (4K+), high hz (120+) LCD panel with strobe backligt, you should be able to get a very close approximation of CRT given the correct implementation.

 

[KojiKnight]

Depends on the game... but I'd generally take scan lines over "fake the worst parts of the NTSC CRT standard". There is no reason why you can't take advantage of modern filters and emulation to get a better overall quality image that still is true to the original design.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Sometimes, GAF really makes me boil. This is such a time. Therefore it is better I not speak any further besides: you are really mistaken, good sir. Good bye.

People try to replicate scanline, blurring, color bleeding, and curvature effects for the same reason they replicate glitches and slowdown and sprite flickering. They're trying to emulate the game as it was released and played by the majority of people, which was on awful CRTs.

This may be true for the US but here in Europe we had RGB scart. That completely killed colour bleeding and edge fizz. And you NEED the controlled softness and scanlines because the graphics were designed with those in mind. Even the best arcade monitors had this.

People mistake the softness of a CRT for a simple softening filter but it's actually much more complex. That's why you also need as much resolution as you can to properly emulate this.

 

[IrishNinja]

Upscaler & RGB GAF says what's up! for real though, those shots look great - whats the first one in the OP?

Enjoy your 1.5 extra frames of lag for the low, low price of ~$300.

enjoy your archaic baby-sized screen for babies in exchange for a statistically negligible amount of lag brah, i'll stay tweaking my visuals like a PC gamer for best results

 

[spoonman]

As far as emulated scanlines and clean pixel representation, M2 ,does this very well. You have the option of 1:1 pixel with scanline and then with or without bilinear filtering.

Sample images from Neo•Geo Station on the PS3: (•EDIT•) I forgot to mention the following shots were taken on a crappy iPod Touch off of a PlayStation LCD display. When viewed in person the scanlines and sharp 1080p graphics really gives the illusion of playing on a high end CRT.

They have these same options on the Sega Vintage Classics (Super Hang-On, Revenge of Shinobi, Alex Kidd, Wonder Boy, Toejam & Earl, etc..), Capcom Arcade Cabinet.

I don't care for the crazy glowing and saturated color effect that Capcom uses on Final Fight Double Impact, MVC, Dungeons & Dragon's Mysteria... I've never seen an arcade monitor that looked like that unless it was damaged and I'd rather not emulate a damaged display.

I also like the vector emulation on MAME. The slight burn in and light "trails" is a convincing effect for non-vector displays.

 

[vagabondarts]

Edit- double post sorry

 

[vagabondarts]

On some NES games from my youth the post processing takes me right back to childhood. I would like to see more new games play with these effects

It definitely seems necessary to have scanlines or some other form of filter when playing on high res monitors, they just look awful otherwise.

I really like the unfiltered image of 3DS virtual console games though, the low resolution suits it well, since it's 1:1, and even if its a little sharper it still looks great. To me Sonic looks better on 3DS than it ever did on Megadrive.

Example.

3DS NES emulation is scaled 1:1 for some reason. You can clearly see the effect on tiled maps. Pretty crappy.
I hear sega's emulation wrapper is far superior but I haven't tried it myself.

 

[Trojita]

People try to replicate scanline, blurring, color bleeding, and curvature effects for the same reason they replicate glitches and slowdown and sprite flickering. They're trying to emulate the game as it was released and played by the majority of people, which was on awful CRTs.

Hey man, my family had good CRTs.

 

[spoonman]

Hey man, my family had good CRTs.

Hehe... same here.

I talked my dad into buying a nice Sony Trinitron 32" TV back in 1989. It had a great picture and svideo inputs too. I loved how the SNES looked via svideo. It made the color bleed and dotcrawl almost non-existant. Even the composite stuff (NES, TG16, Genesis) cleaned up well on that TV.

So to reiterate, I like scanline generators and emulation on HDTV (Plasma/LCD/OLED), but none of the other "picture degrading"

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I love the retro post-processing. Some do it better than the others. Some make the image look like you're playing on a really crappy TV. I prefer the ones that make it look like you're playing on the best CRT ever made.

 

[Josh7289]

So you guys haven't been to the Retroarch emulator thread right? Alright cool check these out.

Options!

Holy shit! I know what I'm doing when I get home. Thanks!

 

[Durante]

Personally, I dislike basic scanline filters and curvature, but I like the more recent intricate pixel shader attempts to replicate an actual CRT screen. Particularly on high resolution displays some of those (based on simulating actual phosphor behaviour) look great.

 

[virtuo]

Anyone else enjoyed seeing this bumper on theatre screens recently? http://vimeo.com/40369449

 

[Koozek]

This is what I fap to:

That's why I like the graphics in Minecraft or Eldritch, although they could always be better. Much better unfiltered IMO.

Maaan, everytime I see these pics I get so horny :>

 

[TnK]

Scanlines and curvature are a matter of taste, but there are some NTSC display features that are absolutely worth reproducing, like the color palette and a slight blur.

Allow me to demonstrate with some Final Fantasy VI screens taken by The Exodu5:

Look at those Goddamn bricks!

How did you manage to do that? Looks really good.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Personally, I dislike basic scanline filters and curvature, but I like the more recent intricate pixel shader attempts to replicate an actual CRT screen. Particularly on high resolution displays some of those (based on simulating actual phosphor behaviour) look great.

Yeah, but you have to admit those look very close to an actual arcade monitor.

As far as emulated scanlines and clean pixel representation, M2 ,does this very well. You have the option of 1:1 pixel with scanline and then with or without bilinear filtering.

Sample images from Neo•Geo Station on the PS3:

They have these same options on the Sega Vintage Classics (Super Hang-On, Revenge of Shinobi, Alex Kidd, Wonder Boy, Toejam & Earl, etc..), Capcom Arcade Cabinet.

I don't care for the crazy glowing and saturated color effect that Capcom uses on Final Fight Double Impact, MVC, Dungeons & Dragon's Mysteria... I've never seen an arcade monitor that looked like that unless it was damaged and I'd rather not emulate a damaged display.

I also like the vector emulation on MAME. The slight burn in and light "trails" is a convincing effect for non-vector displays.

 

[papersleeves]

I like using this:

Awesome scanlines and no frame delay in B1 mode. I plug all my retro console on it. I particularly like the CRT flickering look it gives in 480i with the PS2 or Gamecube, an effect that even the framemeister cannot reproduce afaik.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Thank you for alerting me to the existence of Cuphead.

 

[spoonman]

Yeah, but you have to admit those look very close to an actual arcade monitor.

I forgot to mention those Neo•Geo shots were taken with a crappy iPod Touch while being displayed on a PlayStation LCD display @ 1080p. In person the scanlines really gives the illusion of playing on a high end CRT.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I forgot to mention those Neo•Geo shots were taken with a crappy iPod Touch while being displayed on a PlayStation LCD display @ 1080p. In person the scanlines really gives the illusion of playing on a high end CRT.

League Bowling, fuck YEAH.

 

[Coda]

This is Progear in mame via VGA and a simple scanline generator. The scanlines are subtle enough that you can't quite see them with a phone pic, but in real life they are just perfectly subtle.

If I'm not playing Dreamcast or emulated games on my LCD with this VGA cable and scanline generator I'm probably just playing retro consoles on my Sony Trintitron that takes component video.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I've been interested by this stuff for the last few months. I have little idea where to start to get all of this stuff so perfect as all the screens in this thread though. I assume RetroArch is the key part of it, and theres tons of plugins floating around out there? Has anyone compiled like a really good "good to go" folder for most of the popular consoles (8-bit to 16-bit)? I'm lost.

What are the best settings for Mega Drive/Genesis for instance to replicate CRT of that? I remember monkeying around with a Blargg NTSC filter and scanlines in KGEN back in the day, but was never sure if I liked it or not.

ALSO: Streamers and Youtubers never 'display' games in this state but often their raw states. While most of this thread seems a big fan of scanlines and filters, would they also want to watch footage presented in this way?

 

[KojiKnight]

ALSO: Streamers and Youtubers never 'display' games in this state but often their raw states. While most of this thread seems a big fan of scanlines and filters, would they also want to watch footage presented in this way?

If nothing else, it would set your versions apart from others. It's kind of a personal preference thing as you can see from the thread. If you do stream/have a channel you should simply try it out sometime and get feedback.

 

[Tain]

I would think that these effects stand to lose a lot to video compression, but I couldn't tell you without seeing it.

 

[Khaz]

This is sadly just a mockup but it shows what's important when trying to emulate a CRT: it's not about the scanlines, it's about glowing round spots. Bright pixels (yellows, whites) are bigger than dim pixels (blues), interstitial black lines are showing depending of brightness, there is none of that composite ntsc crap where pixels influence their neighbours colour.

 

[Boulotaur2024]

ALSO: Streamers and Youtubers never 'display' games in this state but often their raw states. While most of this thread seems a big fan of scanlines and filters, would they also want to watch footage presented in this way?

I guess it would make the video harder to compress hence degrading the video quality a bit. On the other hand, unfiltered 2D sprites are an encoder dream

EDIT : lol already replied
EDIT : fantastic shots spoonman

 

[char0n]

I REALLY like them for emulation or games trying to capture 8/16 bit look/feel, but I also greatly prefer them to be optional/able to switch them off. On RetroArch I'd say I use them about 50/50 between enjoying that nostalgic feeling to wanting a nice clear view of the pixel art.

 

[SegaShack]

I like them when they are done properly. All my non HDMI systems I have hooked into a Sony Trinitron CRT TV and they look amazing.

I like what Sega did with their recent 3DS Sega Classic's line, they completely redid and optimized the games to look perfect on the system.

 

[2+2=5]

Games are made to look good on the screen they are supposed to play on, 8-16 bit games were designed to look better on CRT(or LCD in the case of handhelds), so a 8-16 bit game with a good CRT filter is more authentic than the 8-16 bit game unfiltered.

What's more "authentic", this

or this?

The same applies to all the rest.

 

[KojiKnight]

Games are made to look good on the screen they are supposed to play on, 8-16 bit games were designed to look better on CRT(or LCD in the case of handhelds), so a 8-16 bit game with a good CRT filter is more authentic than the 8-16 bit game unfiltered.

What's more "authentic", this

or this?


The same applies to all the rest.

The ladder is definitely more "authentic" if you played on a classic "green screen" gameboy, but a lot of people started playing GB games via GBP and GBC in which case it's pretty bleh and the first image would likely fit better.

That said, the most accurate GBP/C simulation would likely be the 3DS while you hold select and with the 3D slider on

 

[Sixfortyfive]

enjoy your archaic baby-sized screen for babies in exchange for a statistically negligible amount of lag brah, i'll stay tweaking my visuals like a PC gamer for best results

Oh, it's like that?

It ain't the size that matters, son...

640x480 is all I need.

I like using this:

http://i.imgur.com/MEHnpey.jpg

Awesome scanlines and no frame delay in B1 mode. I plug all my retro console on it. I particularly like the CRT flickering look it gives in 480i with the PS2 or Gamecube, an effect that even the framemeister cannot reproduce afaik.

 

[MaLDo]

La-Mulana using sweetfx CRT shader

before

after

before

after