Stephen Curry
Member
Edmundo Gonzalez won the election in 2024 and Maduro refused to leave office. They wouldn't be installing a random person.
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Air Strikes in Caracas
- Thread starter Meicyn
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Bojji
Gold Member
Funny thing about Trump is that he changes his opinions every 5 minutes. What guarantees European countries have that America would help them when this guy is the president? Zero, he doesn't respect Nato and article 5. Giving away Greenland and licking trumps butt will get them nowhere.
Russia won't be able to attack Europe for the next few years, that's the time to make NATO (minus US) military stronger and independent from US forces (USA created this alliance in a way that they are essential for any military operations). One thing that Trump is 100% right about - Europe should be able to defend itself, and his politics are pushing EU to do exactly that.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
It is irrelevant who won because - as you said yourself - Maduro decided not to leave. And then what? He won but he had no power to keep the throne. Did army or police sided with Gonzalez there? No. Colectivos? No. Why? He won, no? That's the issue there.
Using what? Military does not grow on trees and money are not the infinite resource either. Plus keep in mind that a lot of folks in Europe won't even bother to join european military and bunch of the countries do not even care abou the Greenland. You think italians will join forces with french and germans (granted, germans do not even have the official military) to fight USA? Or Poland? A lot of european countries also censored and banished parties that has 20-30% support. Do you think those people will happily go and fight for their governments? Or even EU?
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RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Lol presume I'm a democrat.. aye the party of purple hairs and men can be women, nah mate I'm one of those "others" you know, outside of America... Anyways how well has it gone previously when America has installed a puppet??? Go on do tell...
ChuckeRearmed
Member
If you know that then why are you asking a question about "installing a person". What the point of installing a guy who did not even have anybody to support him after Maduro's decided just to stay as a president? It is laughable. "USA should come and install a democratically elected president who could not even become a president because the previous guy refused to leave". What kind of election did he win then? lol
I guess you are an european, then?
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RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Yeah normal
ReBurn
Gold Member
NATO alignment is the guarantee. That's the purpose of NATO. But it's not going to come down to a takeover of Greenland for Trump to get what he wants, which is an expanded military presence in the country and access to untapped natural resources in exchange for defense guarantees. And with enough blustering I'm sure a lot of NATO members will see that as a better alternative.
DrFigs
Member
I don't agree w/ intervening in Venezuela. I think it's not our problem, and that potentially making the country more unstable is actually harmful to us. But i think right now the administration is actually handling it okay by keeping someone in power that has support in the country.
But having said that, I would also not be surprised if Trump starts supporting Machado because she hands him her nobel peace prize. We don't say it enough, but the guy's a bit of a retard.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Normal european like a nationalist or a federalist? There are different europeans so it is hard to tell. A lot of left leaning europeans are no different from democrats (aside not having attraction towards child mutilation and dancing in frog suits).
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Bojji
Gold Member
It's not like Europe doesn't have thousand's of Arms producers and plan is to spend 800 billion on them:
EU's von der Leyen proposes €800 billion defense plan – DW – 03/04/2025
The European Commission president says increasing defense spending is necessary in "an era of rearmament." A European summit on defense and Ukraine is planned this week amid tense transatlantic relations.
www.dw.com
Russian invasion (or any invasion) is existential thread, people will have to fight no matter what idiotic issues are the most important to them now (like how many genders there are). Ukrainians were focused on their daily lives before Russian invasion...
Unknown Soldier
Member
I think it's important to understand that Trump says different things every 5 minutes on purpose to keep everyone else off balance. In reality, Trump has generally held the same opinions and beliefs for most of his life. He's been talking about needing to do tariffs since the 1980's. So we don't really know what Trump really thinks and that's completely intentional on his part
That said, my impression is that Trump does want to formally bring Greenland into the American sphere of influence. Trump has been trying to consolidate formally and informally American hegemony over the Western Hemisphere in preparation for a Great Powers struggle with China. The Fortress Americas was something that was essential to America's position against the Soviet Union during the Cold War and has dramatically eroded in the post-Soviet era and it needs to be built back up in case a complete decoupling with China becomes necessary
People forget the US and the Soviet Union almost got into a civilization-ending nuclear conflict over the Soviets trying to place nuclear missiles in Cuba
ChuckeRearmed
Member
That's cool and all, but how much time do you think it would take to ramp up the military to fight USA? Plus it is a plan so it will take a lot of time for them to reach a concensus there - with a lot of countries would not want to actually spend their money on EU army and so on.
A lot of people won't fight and will just leave the country. Not everybody in Ukraine is even fighting Russia either. Some people would rather see their current government fall rather than support it. That's why when I look at French or British proposals to send the troops, I scratch the head thinking about who is willing to deploy to Ukraine considering how much the mess UK is right now?
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Bojji
Gold Member
Time will tell. But eventual conflict between Nato countries is the worst thing that can happen and great news for China and Russia.
I'm not one of those people that hate Trump by default no matter what he does - I think many of his policies and changes he made inside USA are good (end of woke bullshit in institutions, crackdown on illegal migration etc.). That said, his treatments of long time USA allies is not good at all and he is way too friendly with war criminal - Mr. Putin.
Bojji
Gold Member
Greenland stuff most likely won't end up with any open military conflict. No matter how it will resolve this USA/Europe military schizm is going to happen anyway. Most European leaders don't trust Trump when it comes to supposed USA protection of Europe.
Ukraine banned military age men to leave the country so I guess the same thing will happen in European countries attacked by Russia.
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Article: Venezuela: The security situation in Venezuela remains fluid. As international flights have resumed, U.S. citizens in Venezuela should leave the country immediately. Before departure, U.S. citizens should take precautions and be aware of their surroundings. There are reports of groups of armed militias, known as colectivos, setting up roadblocks and searching vehicles for evidence of U.S. citizenship or support for the United States. Remain vigilant and exercise caution when traveling by road. Monitor airlines' communications and websites for updated information.
Venezuela has the highest Travel Advisory level – Level 4: Do Not Travel – due to severe risks to Americans, including wrongful detention, torture in detention, terrorism, kidnapping, arbitrary enforcement of local laws, crime, civil unrest, and poor health infrastructure. Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) at step.state.gov to receive security updates. More at ve.usembassy.gov/security-alert…
Unknown Soldier
Member
Trump sick of ‘tiresome’ Putin
President fears Russia is ‘playing for time’ rather than seeking Ukraine peace say White House sources
www.telegraph.co.uk
FWIW
Trump was trying to be nice to Putin to give him a chance to negotiate an end to the war. Putin has been stonewalling like he always does. Trump is now running out of patience with Putin, and pressuring Russia by bringing down Russia's ally nations like Venezuela, Cuba, and Iran is a convenient side effect of his strategy to prepare America for a potential conflict with China
The position of Russia is very precarious, they've wasted so many lives and so much treasure on the stalemated invasion of Ukraine and wrecked their economy and killed a generation of their young men. Putin has found all of his geopolitical goals set back, neighboring Finland joined NATO which is exactly the expansion of NATO he was trying to prevent by invading Ukraine. The network of European dependence on his energy he built over decades was dismantled almost overnight, and now he has no choice to sell oil to China which considers Russia a client state and Putin doesn't like being anyone's slave. Now Trump is threatening to put 500% tariffs on any nation which is buying Russian oil
What I'm saying is the media screeches non-stop about how much Trump loves Putin but everything Trump has actually done recently is actually squeezing Putin's balls in an attempt to force him to end the war in Ukraine and there's a good chance he'll succeed soon. Russia simply can't sustain their current course of action much longer
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Military schism has been inevitable the moment EU has turned into a political block somewhere in the 90s. It is just too expensive to support the military for the block that is also competing with you directly. I do think though, that Europe itself will splinter too because there are some structural issues. EU is already becoming something like a Holy Roman Empire. I do not think they will be able to get a true cohesion - at best EU will have to reform into a set of blocks, within the same european framework. But even that it is questionable. EU is able to maintain itself right now due to a relative financial stability. It is very interesting how it is going to develop long term. EU bureaucracy has been a bit too overreaching in the recent years.
Yes, but would it make the military stronger? No. Wars are good only if they end fast. If the conflict lasts long enough, people get tired of it. Fatigue and such.
Yeah, this also is going to be interesting.
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calico
Member
Because the leashing of the regime first required the demonstration.
Grildon Tundy
Member
Holy shit.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
I remember way back seeing some articles the US had pain lasers or something. I dont remember if it was real or they were working on it. But maybe their new weapon is that but much bigger and badder.
SoloCamo
Member
Yea, I remember that a few years back, concussive weapons.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
LimanimaPT
Member
Because he is a dictator.
Maybe some foreign country should send it's delta force and capture him.
Americans can't or simply don't want to see that a dictator is ruling their country. So sad...
Unknown?
Member
In that sense he isn't any different from Biden, Obama, or George Dubbya.
Gamerfan81
Member
Just took a 10 day vacation at Big Bear and had minimal use of technology as a choice, so didn't use the internet or even watch tv, with only a few calls made to other family members to show them I'm alright during that time.
Go back on the internet to check out if any important news happened and see Venezuela's head of state was abducted and taken to NY to be prosecuted and then the severe tension of the U.S. wanting to take Greenland from Denmark. One hell of a way to get back into civilization.
Go back on the internet to check out if any important news happened and see Venezuela's head of state was abducted and taken to NY to be prosecuted and then the severe tension of the U.S. wanting to take Greenland from Denmark. One hell of a way to get back into civilization.
LimanimaPT
Member
Why do trumpers always reply with democrat names? I'm not American and I don't give two shits about democrats.
You are probably in the group of americans I mentioned later. You don't want to see...
But sooner or later you will see, the thing is, it will probably be too late for you.
China, russia, us... this world is going into shit.
Tams
Member
People like you have never seen the end of a firearm.
Just because someone is popular does not mean they have power. Power comes from the potential to enact violence and nothing else.
SoloCamo
Member
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Trump doesn't get to his position with a low IQ. I said it would be dumb to use military action to take Greenland by force.
Which is why I think it's just a bluff to force Greenland/Denmark in giving control to the US. He's hoping that by not ruling out military action that it will sway the issue to his favour, but he's not crazy enough to go through with it.
And it would be crazy for a number of reasons.
It would almost certainly end NATO, or at least remove the US from the alliance. An attack on a NATO ally by the US would destroy the credibility of mutual defense. European nations would likely move to expel US forces from bases in Germany, Italy, UK etc, thus ending decades of US influence in Europe.
The geopolitical fallout wouldn't end there. The US would likely face severe economic sanctions from the EU and other allies. This potentially could push Europe and other nations closer to China as they seek more stable partners, effectively ending American global hegemony.
Closer to home, such an insane action would likely trigger an immediate confrontation between the White House and Congress. Correct me if I'm wrong, but under the War Powers Resolution, the POTUS cannot sustain hostilities for more than 60 days without Congressional authorisation. I doubt such a conflict would be over in 60 days. Not to mention I'm sure you'd see civil unrest in most states as people would be deeply opposed to an attack to gain Greenland by force.
The markets wouldn't react positively to uncertainty and unpredictable behaviour. Not to mention you'd probably see things like central banks in Europe and Asia start offloading US treasury bonds as a form of financial sanctions, which would cause US interest rates to skyrocket.
Overall, it would be financial and political suicide, which is why it's not going to happen.
He's not a dictator.
The Democrats (as well as other political parties) still exist and legally he cannot run for a third term in 2028.
Varteras
Member
Exactly. Install the rightfully elected person? You mean the one who was pushed out by force? That force is still there. Venezuela's institutions need to be dismantled and repopulated. Until that happens, anyone not part of the Communist regime will just get forced out like they were before. This takes time.
The US WANTED the elected government to take over but they had no real plan or assets in place to ensure they would hold the country once the US turned around. That was a gamble the US wasn't going to make after pulling off such an operation. It would just undermine the accomplishment. Costing political capital at home and abroad.
And, US oil companies won't want to bother doing business there unless they have the reassurance that this isn't going to turn into 2007 all over again.
Unknown?
Member
Oh you missed that there was a Republican in there. You exposed yourself as being far too invested into a single person.
I guess anyone who doesn't follow your line of thinking is a Trumper....
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
The best dictator in the whole world, the only dictator fighting for word peace and economic prosperity
Yeap. Like the Venezuelan army.
Varteras
Member
That's not even to mention that the US, in some ways, effectively already has a measure of control over Greenland. The treaty between the US and Denmark damn near gives the US all the authority it wants to militarize the island.
What this has more to do with is legality and carte blanche. The ability for the US to do whatever it wants in Greenland, at any time, without having to deal with all the conversations. Which bogs things down.
The resources of Greenland, while substantial, are immensely difficult to extract and would probably take several decades minimum to begin seeing even semi-decent results if mining operations and infrastructure development started right now.
This is much less about immediate needs and almost entirely about preventing future issues. I think the only reason the US would take military action is if Greenland wants a deal and Denmark and/or other European nations try to block it forcefully.
DrFigs
Member
What do you think the secret plan is with Canada, which he also says he wants to belong to the U.S.?
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I'm not aware of any secret plan, so you'd have to fill me in.
I think getting Canada would be more unlikely than Greenland. The only way that would happen is if Canada put it to the people in a referendum, but as a majority of Canadians have no wish to be part of the US, that isn't ever likely to happen.
DrFigs
Member
My position is that it's all stupid man. The guy just constantly says and does stupid things. Trying to rationalize it is a waste of time.
kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
What resources are these that take decades?
Unknown?
Member
Highly refined ice cubes.
Varteras
Member
Rare earth elements, oil, gas, uranium, gold, zinc, and copper.
There's no real infrastructure set up to extract and move the stuff. No roads or railways. Meaning any movement of the materials is way more costly until those exist.
The environment is incredibly harsh which means you need special logistics and equipment. Especially depending on the season.
A lot of the resource deposits are low-grade. Less concentrated. Meaning they're less economical to extract. There's also the processing difficulties because rare earth elements are frequently found inside complex minerals. You need advanced and expensive techniques to process them.
This doesn't even get into the strict laws and environmental regulations you'd have to deal with.
If Greenland was easy to set up shop and extract resources from in an economically feasible way, it would have been happening already.
calico
Member
I agree President Trump is probably bluffing about forcing the issue in Greenland, but I don't think the foreign consequences would be as apocalyptic as some are suggesting. It would shatter the facade of the US-Europe alliance, but not the reality of it which is that Europe is effectively a vassal (or a collection of vassals) of the US.
President Trump would call and say 'we're taking possession of Greenland on date x, stand down your troops', and the Danish would almost certainly comply rather than contest the issue militarily (which would be absolutely pointless). Europe would pout, but there's not a whole lot it can do about it when it would be just as reliant on US defence of Europe-proper as it was the day before.
The real restricting factor is domestically. If the Deep State also considers direct US control of Greenland as being essential for security, then President Trump may be given enough leeway to force the issue. If the Deep State is opposed to the move -or rather, considers maintaining the facade of the US-Europe relationship as more important than owning Greenland- then he likely either actually could not do it (the system would not respond to his command), or he would be risking removal from office if he went ahead with it without their blessing.
I would not totally rule out America taking Greenland, because I think the belief that US control of it is essential for US security long-term runs much deeper than just President Trump.
President Trump would call and say 'we're taking possession of Greenland on date x, stand down your troops', and the Danish would almost certainly comply rather than contest the issue militarily (which would be absolutely pointless). Europe would pout, but there's not a whole lot it can do about it when it would be just as reliant on US defence of Europe-proper as it was the day before.
The real restricting factor is domestically. If the Deep State also considers direct US control of Greenland as being essential for security, then President Trump may be given enough leeway to force the issue. If the Deep State is opposed to the move -or rather, considers maintaining the facade of the US-Europe relationship as more important than owning Greenland- then he likely either actually could not do it (the system would not respond to his command), or he would be risking removal from office if he went ahead with it without their blessing.
I would not totally rule out America taking Greenland, because I think the belief that US control of it is essential for US security long-term runs much deeper than just President Trump.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
TBF ive been on the arse end of a gun a few times
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Is the whole point not to do with the polar ice caps melting and thus making access to these minerals now a viable one economically.
Greenlanders don't strike me as capitalistic greedy cunts like the orange monkey and his supporters and thus have no interest in harming their environment for a few extra trinkets, hard to get permits when you can't buy the local government
ChuckeRearmed
Member
There are restrictions still though. Pkus thevsheer fact that a couple of years ago China was trying to build an airport there is already alarming by a sheer fact that neither Denmark nor Greenland opposed it before USA intervened.
Bojji
Gold Member
Europe is slow, bureaucratic engine but if they will be forced to make potential live-saving decisions when it comes to their miliary and independence from US, they will do it. There are ZERO security guarantees from USA ruled by Trump, he mocks article 5 (only used for USA so far) and started economic war with allies long time ago (tariffs). Europe can 100% assume that under this president America will just watch when something bad happens (not much difference vs. WW2 beginning...).
Europe also don't need to have military power close to USA to stop Russia, that mighty Russian military was stopped by small Ukraine (war was supposed to take 3 days...).
That's what I speculated earlier. He risks losing support from all his European allies and potential economic shit storm as well. If American ally behaves like than closer relations with China are no brainer.
Yep, that's the golden rule for all essential resources on earth. Companies and countries know where they are, mining just don't make economical sense.
The best dictator in the whole world, the only dictator fighting for word peace and economic prosperity
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Well to be fair, Denmark does not give a shit about Greenland - until rexently they were even prohibitng them from using their native language in the parliament. Not to mention Greenland is one of the most depressive countries in the world (so much for danish quality of life). Hell, Greenland was even in ECC before leaving due to a conflict over the fishing rights.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Wasnt it NATO themselves voted to invoke it? Because USA did not ask for their support at that time (I think somebody here wrote sonething about that the american general said that they had no time learning abour danish air force).
They are already trying to make deals with China and left leaning governments are openly pro-chinese. What difference does it make? For Europeans the main difference between USA and China is that they do not compete economically that much, unlike with China that can flood the countries with their items and infrastructure (USA is mainly selling services to Europe), something that Europ does too (granted countries like Germany are cooked already). In addition to that, politically China is never ally to anybody. So Europe won't be able become closer to China.
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Bojji
Gold Member
No matter who invoked it, it was done to help USA. Trump now conveniently forgot about it and says that no one will help USA if it's in need...
America would start to be more and more economically isolated, Europe and USA have super strong economical connection and mr. funny hairstyle risks fucking it up (and for what?). That would also strengthen Chinese position on the global market, something that USA tried (so far) to prevent. No one can convince me that Trunp is playing 4D chess, it looks more like decision making based on emotions, hubris and lack of knowledge...
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