I don't know if its an "excuse", he's just making it clear that he didn't intend malice with the joke. He just made a mistake in the moment of trying to get a laugh. He still owns up to the fuck up of using the word in the first place.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Thats our word, and you cant have it back: Ice Cube confronts Bill Maher
- Thread starter Loudninja
- Start date
I don't know if its an "excuse", he's just making it clear that he didn't intend malice with the joke. He just made a mistake in the moment of trying to get a laugh. He still owns up to the fuck up of using the word in the first place.
Cool. 2 people you personally know say "nigger" to each other and break bread. That was never the issue with racism, racial violence, minority disenfranchisement or white supremacy in the first place.
I think what that person's trying to say is that they said "a" instead of "er". Since "a" is typically used as a term of endearment, it's perfectly fine between the two friends.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Possibly as a term of endearment, I guess? Sort of like "man" or "buddy. That's how it's used, no?
Take this example. I have two friends that are best friends with each other. One of them is black, the other isn't (he's Arabic). They call each other "nigga" all the time. They're like two peas in a pod. Should the non-white friend not be allowed to use this word when talking to his friend while other black people with no relation to them can address him as that?
The word holds no weight to them and they're all the happier for it.
There's a scene in the movie Dope that is almost exactly what that scenario you described is.
I think a lot of people that don't understand why black people might not like white people using the word don't understand the historical context of "nigger" being widely used in a discriminatory fashion in majority white America. "Nigga", at least from my view, has always been black people repurposing what was once used to hold black people back into something that gives a sense of unity among people of similar historical backgrounds of hardship.
Genuine question here, not trying to stir up who should or shouldn't say it, or if anybody should:
I understand the argument of taking back power for the word, and that white people don't really need to input on how black people refer to each other. My question is, where would you stand if a bunch of white people, like a group of friends, would like to refer to each other as nigga, maybe simply because they see it as a similar form of comradery. No mal-intent, and they're still careful not to say the word around black people out of consideration. Do black people have a say in their vocabulary?
I have no power to stop them from saying, but it lets me know not to trust them
EdibleKnife
Member
I think what that person's trying to say is that they said "a" instead of "er". Since "a" is typically used as a term of endearment, it's perfectly fine between the two friends.
They shouldn't be saying either one! I don't give a damn about the "er" or "a" argument. They're both the same in my eyes and come from the same historical root. Stop demanding permission to say it. Stop taking it. Look for literally anything else.
ChimpBottle
Member
"Hey this people don't have to deal with 400 years of systematic racism. They got over it, why can't black people"
Do you know how silly that sounds?
That is the overlapping problem people see the word and forget the history.
I'm not saying let bygones be bygones. I'm saying that empowering the word is not the right decision.
That seems fine as long as they keep it within their group. Like you said they aren't hurting anyone. I know my teenage cousin and all his friends say it all the time but they are also smart enough to not say it anywhere else. It's kind of like swearing with your friends but not saying the same words in front of parents or teachers.Genuine question here, not trying to stir up who should or shouldn't say it, or if anybody should:
I understand the argument of taking back power for the word, and that white people don't really need to input on how black people refer to each other. My question is, where would you stand if a bunch of white people, like a group of friends, would like to refer to each other as nigga, maybe simply because they see it as a similar form of comradery. No mal-intent, and they're still careful not to say the word around black people out of consideration. Do black people have a say in their vocabulary?
They shouldn't be saying either one! I don't give a damn about the "er" or "a" argument. They're both the same in my eyes and come from the same historical root. Stop demanding permission to say it. Stop taking it. Look for literally anything else.
I just don't get it. When did sounding like a racist because a right to fight for?
I'm not saying let bygones be bygones. I'm saying that empowering the word is not the right decision.
Black people are not empowering the word
Hey so uh, fellow white people.
What the fuck is so valuable to you about saying the word?
And why do you give a shit if only black people are allowed to say it?
Are you worried about a slippery slope or something? Because this tacit rule has been around my whole life and I haven't seen it happen with any other words. This is a particular case rooted in a people's struggle against endless, pernicious racism. And even if it did, with (say) another five or ten words, why do you care? English has millions, and more every day!
I don't fucking get it. Are you so petty that you can't handle being asked not to say this one word? Are you so weak?
What the fuck is so valuable to you about saying the word?
And why do you give a shit if only black people are allowed to say it?
Are you worried about a slippery slope or something? Because this tacit rule has been around my whole life and I haven't seen it happen with any other words. This is a particular case rooted in a people's struggle against endless, pernicious racism. And even if it did, with (say) another five or ten words, why do you care? English has millions, and more every day!
I don't fucking get it. Are you so petty that you can't handle being asked not to say this one word? Are you so weak?
The Fatal Englishman
Member
Why would a white person want to say it?
I don't know if you really need a genuine answer to this question but the answer seems pretty simple from an external perspective - because it has been normalised in American pop culture as a term of endearment. That's part of the price of language reappropriation, whether you like it or not.
It's certainly not a justification for using a term that clearly has outwardly offensive connotations, but it is a clear reasoning nonetheless.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The word is incredibly divisive. Some black people might be cool with you saying it, some might not care, some are going to be angry, some are going to be offended. As it is impossible to know which of these categories the black people you run into in your daily life are going to fall the rational thing a normal, decent human would do would be to just not use it at all. But yet here we are.
allenpergallon
Member
Genuine question here, not trying to stir up who should or shouldn't say it, or if anybody should:
I understand the argument of taking back power for the word, and that white people don't really need to input on how black people refer to each other. My question is, where would you stand if a bunch of white people, like a group of friends, would like to refer to each other as nigga, maybe simply because they see it as a similar form of comradery. No mal-intent, and they're still careful not to say the word around black people out of consideration. Do black people have a say in their vocabulary?
Isn't this just "if a tree falls in the forest"?
Still, they aren't free from repercussions when they slip.
Pretty much.I have no power to stop them from saying, but it lets me know not to trust them
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Thanks Jay-Z.I don't know if you really need a genuine answer to this question but the answer seems pretty simple from an external perspective - because it has been normalised in American pop culture as a term of endearment. That's part of the price of language reappropriation, whether you like it or not.
It's certainly not a justification for using a term that clearly has outwardly offensive connotations, but it is a clear reasoning nonetheless.
I don't understand why white people want to say it. There is almost always a sense of embarrassment when a white person uses the word, and every white person everywhere knows it's wrong and that they shouldn't be saying it(although blatant racists will still say it because they don't actually care, but they still know it's wrong). So hows about white people don't fucking say it? How hard is it?
If black people wanna say it then I as a white person am in no position to tell them not to use it. Maybe I won't like black people using it, but that's the way it is. I'm sure black people didn't like what white people did to them for hundreds of years and still do to them to this day. I recognize my feelings in regards to black people using the word doesn't matter, and I'm fine with it.
If black people wanna say it then I as a white person am in no position to tell them not to use it. Maybe I won't like black people using it, but that's the way it is. I'm sure black people didn't like what white people did to them for hundreds of years and still do to them to this day. I recognize my feelings in regards to black people using the word doesn't matter, and I'm fine with it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Except that white people still also use it for it's intended purpose.I don't know if you really need a genuine answer to this question but the answer seems pretty simple from an external perspective - because it has been normalised in American pop culture as a term of endearment. That's part of the price of language reappropriation, whether you like it or not.
It's certainly not a justification for using a term that clearly has outwardly offensive connotations, but it is a clear reasoning nonetheless.
Ohh they're not missing the point, they're just being deliberately fucking obtuse.Oh man we're getting all the arguments about why white people should be able to say the word, or no one at all ITT.....constantly baffles me how much they miss the point of us being allowed to say it.
Sounds a whole lot like get over racismI don't know if you really need a genuine answer to this question but the answer seems pretty simple from an external perspective - because it has been normalised in American pop culture as a term of endearment. That's part of the price of language reappropriation, whether you like it or not.
It's certainly not a justification for using a term that clearly has outwardly offensive connotations, but it is a clear reasoning nonetheless.
But it is a term of endearment to other black people. If a bunch of women was hanging out calling each other "bitches", i wouldn't slide in and say "what up bitches?"
I think there are two different conversations going on in this thread. one side doesn't see a problem with everyone using "a" because of its normalization within pop culture, while the other side is assuming they mean "er" something that I've personally never heard used as anything but an insult.
Possibly as a term of endearment, I guess? Sort of like "man" or "buddy. That's how it's used, no?
Take this example. I have two friends that are best friends with each other. One of them is black, the other isn't (he's Arabic). They call each other "nigga" all the time. They're like two peas in a pod. Should the non-white friend not be allowed to use this word when talking to his friend while other black people with no relation to them can address him as that?
The word holds no weight to them and they're all the happier for it.
As someone from Los Angeles, which is as melting pot as it gets in this country, I've encountered this a lot. I'm not cool with my non-black friends using the word, but I know black people who are.
But this does not excuse you for not knowing the stigma surrounding the word and its acceptability. Knowing a black person who is cool with you saying it does not mean that EVERY black person has to be ok with you saying it. Because where I'm from? For every black person who's cool with it, I know two who'll likely punch you in the jaw no questions asked.
So be responsible. Don't be a dumbass. Know the meaning of the words you choose to use.
Black-Wind
Member
As a chocolate man myself I find it fucking stupid to ever use this word as a term of endearment in one hand and find offense to it and go "Oh no, YOU can't use that! It's a Black thing!" in the other.
IMO you don't take "power" away from something by making it a term of endearment when used only by certain people yet allowing it to still be a disgusting slur when used by others.
But that's just me. IMO "the black community" isn't some hive mind bullshit and anyone who acts like we're all in agreement over something like this just cause it's popular culture is wrong. I'd never use that word for anyone I like or consider a friend.
And I'm not a robot (Ehhh, I think we're all "robots" to an extent but w/e), I'm not gonna allow someone the power to make me feel a certain way just cause they used one magical word.
But then again that's just me. I've found myself to be a very "Fuck it" kinda person lately. People are stupid and you can't control every word that comes outta them but you can control how you react to the shit they say.
IMO you don't take "power" away from something by making it a term of endearment when used only by certain people yet allowing it to still be a disgusting slur when used by others.
But that's just me. IMO "the black community" isn't some hive mind bullshit and anyone who acts like we're all in agreement over something like this just cause it's popular culture is wrong. I'd never use that word for anyone I like or consider a friend.
And I'm not a robot (Ehhh, I think we're all "robots" to an extent but w/e), I'm not gonna allow someone the power to make me feel a certain way just cause they used one magical word.
But then again that's just me. I've found myself to be a very "Fuck it" kinda person lately. People are stupid and you can't control every word that comes outta them but you can control how you react to the shit they say.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Context? They're practically on the same side when it comes to talking about America's issues with black people.
Killer Mike basically pulled every white excuse in defense of Bill.
'Black people have bigger problems.'
'He's a comedian, jokes are what he does.'
'He makes fun of everybody, so obviously he's not racist'
'Freeze peaches'.
None of this is surprising though. Killer Mike has long shown he's not somebody to take too serious on some matters. Like, he's likened Obama to Reagan, and believed Clinton to be just as bad as Trump.
Sort of, its basically to clarify if usage of the word is a principle thing or a practical thing. On principle, is it wrong to use the word knowing its history and how other feel about it, or is only the practicalities of using it and how that affects society that matters?Isn't this just "if a tree falls in the forest"?
Still, they aren't free from repercussions when they slip.
The answers so far on that make good sense to me, thanks guys
IsntChrisL
Member
I have zero interest in using the word in my lexicon but I know that several people my age and younger use it all of the time. And I'm talking about all races. If a word is popularized in music and entertainment, expect people to adopt it. And the further we get from American slavery, the less people care. I'm not saying it's right, it's just what is.
I don't personally believe that it makes any sense to believe that a word is used to empower but is also a terrible slight if used by another race in the same context. That's just a defense mechanism. The argument often goes that if it's said by a black person it's empowering. Yet it's often used by the same person to slander another black person. Is that still empowerment?
The word will always have a terrible history. That's indisputable. But you can't expect the word to be tossed around constantly in entertainment and only black people will end up using it. In many other countries, the word has little to no historical context. You think a Japanese kid listening to Kendrick gives a fuck about dropping an n-bomb? NO. This is the direction things are heading. I'm not an old man but I'm old enough to know better. But this shit ain't going away. Bill Maher ain't the last white guy to say it. Get on Youtube. Kids of all races are saying it to fill in space like you might say "um." And their fans don't give a fuck.
/my 2 Lincolns.
I don't personally believe that it makes any sense to believe that a word is used to empower but is also a terrible slight if used by another race in the same context. That's just a defense mechanism. The argument often goes that if it's said by a black person it's empowering. Yet it's often used by the same person to slander another black person. Is that still empowerment?
The word will always have a terrible history. That's indisputable. But you can't expect the word to be tossed around constantly in entertainment and only black people will end up using it. In many other countries, the word has little to no historical context. You think a Japanese kid listening to Kendrick gives a fuck about dropping an n-bomb? NO. This is the direction things are heading. I'm not an old man but I'm old enough to know better. But this shit ain't going away. Bill Maher ain't the last white guy to say it. Get on Youtube. Kids of all races are saying it to fill in space like you might say "um." And their fans don't give a fuck.
/my 2 Lincolns.
The Fatal Englishman
Member
Sounds a whole lot like get over racism
But it is a term of endearment to other black people. If a bunch of women was hanging out calling each other "bitches", i wouldn't slide in and say "what up bitches?"
You're probably overestimating the introspective capabilities of a regular consumer of pop culture. The usage of the word in a rap song doesn't automatically transmit the historical context of the word, all it does is transmit its immediate context - which frequently implies comradery or a similar notion.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
The word has never been in my lexicon, but I will never support the idea that only one group gets to use a word.
It's not about one group getting to use a word. Words convey meaning and different meaning to different people. We know this with physical gestures and certain words/phrases that mean different things in different countries/cultures. Everyone knows about that, right? So what's so hard to understand about it in this scenario?
I understand the history behind it, but as long as black people continue to let it hold power, there's always going to be a divide.
Yikes.
Killer Mike basically pulled every white excuse in defense of Bill.
'Black people have bigger problems.'
'He's a comedian, jokes are what he does.'
'He makes fun of everybody, so obviously he's not racist'
'Freeze peaches'.
None of this is surprising though. Killer Mike has long shown he's not somebody to take too serious on some matters. Like, he's likened Obama is Reagan, and believed Clinton to be just as bad as Trump.
Killer Mike fast sliding into Hotepdom
UnemployedVillain
Member
I don't know if you really need a genuine answer to this question but the answer seems pretty simple from an external perspective - because it has been normalised in American pop culture as a term of endearment among black people. That's part of the price of language reappropriation, whether you like it or not.
It's certainly not a justification for using a term that clearly has outwardly offensive connotations, but it is a clear reasoning nonetheless.
FTFY
Is it harmless? Every single time they toss the word around it shows a level of disrespect to where the word came from and the people it targeted. Even if there is no malice in the act it can subconsciously corrode the way people think and act.That seems fine as long as they keep it within their group. Like you said they aren't hurting anyone. I know my teenage cousin and all his friends say it all the time but they are also smart enough to not say it anywhere else. It's kind of like swearing with your friends but not saying the same words in front of parents or teachers.
Just don't say it around me and we cool. Couldn't care about what they say when I'm not present.Genuine question here, not trying to stir up who should or shouldn't say it, or if anybody should:
I understand the argument of taking back power for the word, and that white people don't really need to input on how black people refer to each other. My question is, where would you stand if a bunch of white people, like a group of friends, would like to refer to each other as nigga, maybe simply because they see it as a similar form of comradery. No mal-intent, and they're still careful not to say the word around black people out of consideration. Do black people have a say in their vocabulary?
the_darkness
Banned
The word holds no weight to them and they're all the happier for it.
Ok that's cool and all but did you hear what Cube said? When he hears that word come out of a white person's mouth, it cuts like a knife, regardless of their intent.
I'm super duper happy for your friends but when it comes to white people saying that word, it DOES have weight regardless of whether or not you think it should.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Situations like you're describing are exactly are what lead to slip ups like Maher's. White people have several words they can use to describe each other as friends, no need to appropriate even more of black culture. And yes that includes when you're friends with "one of the good ones." Why is it that everytime we discuss this we have to also discuss literally every single hypothetical about when it's ok for white people to use the word?Genuine question here, not trying to stir up who should or shouldn't say it, or if anybody should:
I understand the argument of taking back power for the word, and that white people don't really need to input on how black people refer to each other. My question is, where would you stand if a bunch of white people, like a group of friends, would like to refer to each other as nigga, maybe simply because they see it as a similar form of comradery. No mal-intent, and they're still careful not to say the word around black people out of consideration. Do black people have a say in their vocabulary?
As a chocolate man myself I find it fucking stupid to ever use this word as a term of endearment in one hand and find offense to it and go "Oh no, YOU can't use that! It's a Black thing!" in the other.
If I call my best friend a bitch for in a joking manner, does that mean it would be wise to call my mom or boss the same thing in the same manner?
Of course not. The same word can have different connotations, meanings, and levels of perceived insult depending upon the relationship of the speakers involved. Like, we all inherently know this because we all change our language habits accordingly depending upon whether we're talking to people above, on, or below our social status, and people of different levels of intimacy and relation.
But apparently shit goes tits up and people act brand new when we're talking about "nigga/er" because for some reason we've gotten it in our heads that these kinds of social relationships cannot be based on race, even though we live in a racist world where there's an obvious hierarchy that's inversely proportional to your melanin count.
Sunset Samurai
Member
One of the reasons why I don't allow my white colleagues (wouldn't really call them close friends) to say it around me is because they could easily be stealth racist with it even with out using the "er"
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Women and black people have their word, we Latinos need our own.
We should vote on one in the next meeting.
We should vote on one in the next meeting.
In all honesty nobody should be using it.
Just my 2 cents.
Agreed.
Damn I must be the DragonBorn.Evidently black people have always had to the power to stop racism
Seriously its always on our shoulders to do somehtign about racism or educate people.
Ok that's cool and all but did you hear what Cube said? When he hears that word come out of a white person's mouth, it cuts like a knife, regardless of their intent.
I'm super duper happy for your friends but when it comes to white people saying that word, it DOES have weight regardless of whether or not you think it should.
Exactly, I don't understand why it's so hard to understand.
If I call my best friend a bitch for in a joking manner, does that mean it would be wise to call my mom or boss the same thing in the same manner?
Of course not. The same word can have different connotations, meanings, and levels of perceived insult depending upon the relationship of the speakers involved. Like, we all inherently know this because we all change our language habits accordingly depending upon whether we're talking to people above, on, or below our social status, and people of different levels of intimacy and relation.
But apparently shit goes tits up and people act brand new when we're talking about "nigga/er" because for some reason we've gotten it in our heads that these kinds of social relationships cannot be based on race, even though we live in a racist world where there's an obvious hierarchy that's inversely proportional to your melanin count.
It's also true though that people sensitive to the word may not want it to be used, even if the connotations are different. It just depends on your personal, subjective view on the topic
One of the reasons why I don't allow my white colleagues (wouldn't really call them close friends) to say it around me is because they could easily be stealth racist with it even with out using the "er"
People should stop with that hoodpass nonsense
ChimpBottle
Member
It's not about one group getting to use a word. Words convey meaning and different meaning to different people. We know this with physical gestures and certain words/phrases that mean different things in different countries/cultures. Everyone knows about that, right? So what's so hard to understand about it in this scenario?
The exclusivity of it. If we want to live in a world without discrimination, we do that by being inclusive. It's a challenge, but it's the correct approach to progress.
Merchandise
Member
Ignorant hot take, ignore:
I feel like this ban on white people saying the word is the biggest reason white people use the word. Every single person has done some kind of rebellion. Maybe if you just let everyone say it they'll eventually realize how stupid it is and it will no longer have that sense of rebellion.
I feel like this ban on white people saying the word is the biggest reason white people use the word. Every single person has done some kind of rebellion. Maybe if you just let everyone say it they'll eventually realize how stupid it is and it will no longer have that sense of rebellion.
It's also true though that people sensitive to the word may not want it to be used, even if the connotations are different. It just depends on your personal, subjective view on the topic
Well yea, because not every black people wants to be called that, or likes it being used in their presence. In those situations, the polite thing to do is to obviously refrain from using said word in their presence.
Ignorant hot take, ignore
Ok.
If white people really think there is no issue in saying even in a friendly manner to their buddies, try doing it in a Food Lion or something with a bunch of black guys around, and see what happens to you.
If you say you would never do such a thing, then you probably already know that it's wrong to say the word, even in a friendly manner.
If you say you would never do such a thing, then you probably already know that it's wrong to say the word, even in a friendly manner.
The Artisan
Member
when i was in 9th grade, English class we were reading the book, "the contender" about an African American youth taking up boxing. There was one scene in the book where one character calls him "skinny nigger" - but the teacher did not say the n word aloud.
then in 10th grade English class we were reading To Kill a Mockingbird - probably one of the most influential books ever. One day when reading the book aloud the teacher (a different teacher) was reading a scene from the book where a character was saying "nigger lover, nigger lover" - I had to look up because I couldn't believe she said it out loud, even if it was a line from a book it just did not sound right.
Either that day or the next day I asked her not to do that anymore. There was a black kid in my class too, and he told me later on that he appreciated that I said that. Not sure if he was serious or not, but I don't like when white people say it
then in 10th grade English class we were reading To Kill a Mockingbird - probably one of the most influential books ever. One day when reading the book aloud the teacher (a different teacher) was reading a scene from the book where a character was saying "nigger lover, nigger lover" - I had to look up because I couldn't believe she said it out loud, even if it was a line from a book it just did not sound right.
Either that day or the next day I asked her not to do that anymore. There was a black kid in my class too, and he told me later on that he appreciated that I said that. Not sure if he was serious or not, but I don't like when white people say it
Ignorant hot take, ignore:
I feel like this ban on white people saying the word is the biggest reason white people use the word. Every single person has done some kind of rebellion. Maybe if you just let everyone say it they'll eventually realize how stupid it is and it will no longer have that sense of rebellion.
Yes to white privilege saying you can't do something is the greatest sin on earth
In a food lion?If white people really think there is no issue in saying even in a friendly manner to their buddies, try doing it in a Food Lion or something with a bunch of black guys around, and see what happens to you.
If you say you would never do such a thing, then you probably already know that it's wrong to say the word, even in a friendly manner.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Why is it cool for Harper Lee to use it then? And you should feel uncomfortable, a person is screaming "nigger lover".when i was in 9th grade, English class we were reading the book, "the contender" about an African American youth taking up boxing. There was one scene in the book where one character calls him "skinny nigger" - but the teacher did not say the n word aloud.
then in 10th grade English class we were reading To Kill a Mockingbird - probably one of the most influential books ever. One day when reading the book aloud the teacher (a different teacher) was reading a scene from the book where a character was saying "nigger lover, nigger lover" - I had to look up because I couldn't believe she said it out loud, even if it was a line from a book it just did not sound right.
Either that day or the next day I asked her not to do that anymore. There was a black kid in my class too, and he told me later on that he appreciated that I said that. Not sure if he was serious or not, but I don't like when white people say it