‘That’s our word, and you can’t have it back’: Ice Cube confronts Bill Maher

"This is a word that for hundreds of years has been used to demean and marginalize an entire race of people, the effects of which are still being felt to this day"

"But do you understand how awkward it is to karaoke 'Nuthin but a G Thang'?"
 
Ninja Scooter said:
"This is a word that for hundreds of years has been used to demean and marginalize an entire race of people, the effects of which are still being felt to this day"

"But do you understand how awkward it is to karaoke 'Nuthin but a G Thang'?"
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Did YG and Rich Homie Quan teach white people nothing? Just say HITTA
 
Slayven said:
"He has black friends, can't be racist"
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Uh, I never said that. Dyson is the person he had a long interview with about the subject and knows him personally, I didn't bring him up because he's black, I brought him up because he understands the subject and has known Maher for years.

NoblesseOblige said:
You need to hop off the Maher defense train. It's been long headed towards derailment.
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Are you trying to say that being a fan of Maher is now bannable?
 
TRD Mr Blonde said:
Jesus Christ people get over yourselves. You sound like 5 year olds kicking and screaming on the ground, "but it's my word no one else can use it". Is there any other nationality in the world that has the same view on a word that only they can say?
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Who cares? Does any other nationality have the same exact historical experience and context that black Americans do? No.
 
Dishwalla said:
If white people really think there is no issue in saying even in a friendly manner to their buddies, try doing it in a Food Lion or something with a bunch of black guys around, and see what happens to you.

If you say you would never do such a thing, then you probably already know that it's wrong to say the word, even in a friendly manner.
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That's true with a lot of words though. People swear and call their friends obscene names all the time but they know where and when it is appropriate and where and when they need to filter their words.
 
Loudninja said:
Oh my head hurts.

The whole point is reclaim this word that was ounce used to insult us and put us down.We took that power away.
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It doesn't seem that way to me. It still has the power to hurt when used by white people, every time the media reports on it and the people react to it.
 
Enzom21 said:
If you're not black, there is no other connotation.
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You serious? Even if you don't condone the use of the word by non-black people, you can't actually think that every time a white person addresses someone as "My nigga" they're actually meaning it in a derogatory way. Whether it is unintentionally or not, most of the time they're just being stupid.
 
Chumley said:
That's what he said. He's a comedian who pushes the limit of what's considered acceptable, always has been. If you believe deep down he's racist there's basically nothing that will convince you otherwise, Dyson is good friends with him and believes he isn't.
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Meh.

We're talking about a guy who boasted about helping launch Coulter and Conway's careers and has talked about wanting to help Milo get his back.

Something is rotten in the Denmark that is his head.

No way does that joke come out that easily live on Cable TV with zero hesitation if he doesn't already have some comfortability with the word.

I'd buy mistake, heat of the moment as a possible reason if he stumbled and paused but that came out without hesitation...
 
ChimpBottle said:
You serious? Even if you don't condone the use of the word by non-black people, you can't actually think that every time a white person addresses someone as "My nigga" they're actually meaning it in a derogatory way. Whether it is unintentionally or not, most of the time they're just being stupid.
Click to expand...

Maybe not derogatory to that exact person, but it shows a basic lack of empathy, understanding context, and history.
 
ChimpBottle said:
The exclusivity of it. If we want to live in a world without discrimination, we do that by being inclusive. It's a challenge, but it's the correct approach to progress.
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That exclusivity already exists in many scenarios and people recognize and follow it, as I pointed out. No reason this should be any different.

Talking about this as a matter of equality is shitty and again I point to the fact that words, phrases and gestures mean different things among cultures. This is really just saying, "If we can't use the word, why should you be able to?" Fucking ridiculous!
 
ChimpBottle said:
If we want to live in a world without discrimination, we do that by being inclusive. It's a challenge, but it's the correct approach to progress.
Click to expand...

Look I get where you're trying to come from, but I think "challenge" is a bit of an understatement. Such a world is basically a sort of humanity end-goal, and for all intents and purposes is an impractical ideal no matter how positive you want to be about it, simply because of human nature.

Not saying it's not worth putting in the effort, it definitely is, but you'd have to essentially be controlling people's minds to get everyone on the same page of understanding like that on every level of possible conflict.

It's not a good argument or position for day-to-day contextual issues, like this certain case, at all.
 
NoblesseOblige said:
No I'm saying your incessant and constant defense of Maher is pathetic and shows you've got the same blind spot as him that is going to only lead to the same disrespect he deserves.
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The only thing I'm defending is the claim that he personally is a racist person, that he has deeply held racist beliefs. I'm not defending what he did or the word he used. I think he's a comedian who acts too familiar about the black community on his show, but as a person I've never gotten the vibe he's legitimately racist. I also don't know the guy personally, but if people who do know him personally say he isn't, I'm taking their word for it.

If that makes me a pathetic person, so fucking be it.
 
UnemployedVillain said:
This is almost comical naivety
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Such a pure thought. I guess when he got old enough to curse without being punished he stopped.

TRD Mr Blonde said:
Jesus Christ people get over yourselves. You sound like 5 year olds kicking and screaming on the ground, "but it's my word no one else can use it". Is there any other nationality in the world that has the same view on a word that only they can say?
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Some women call each other bitch. Would you try that out?
 
Chumley said:
The only thing I'm defending is the claim that he personally is a racist person, that he has deeply held racist beliefs. I'm not defending what he did or the word he used. I think he's a comedian who acts too familiar about the black community on his show, but as a person I've never gotten the vibe he's legitimately racist. I also don't know the guy personally, but if people who do know him personally say he isn't, I'm taking their word for it.

If that makes me a pathetic person, so fucking be it.
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He considers Black=Thug, he been doing this shit for years. This isn't a one off thing, where there is a smoke there is fire

https://youtu.be/UeDPWaLWKCc?t=83
 
Merchandise said:
Time for me to dip from this thread, though I see a clear divide between the people who say it with malice and the people who like rap.
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Your incredibly idealistic future where white people will suddenly lose interest if we give them yet another privilege looks like this:
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And this is from a time where it's not as socially acceptable as it was years ago. Literally centuries worth of history and you had the audacity to genuinely propose that suddenly the word will get rid of all historical context just as long as white people are given yet another privilege.
 
ChimpBottle said:
You serious? Even if you don't condone the use of the word by non-black people, you can't actually think that every time a white person addresses someone as "My nigga" they're actually meaning it in a derogatory way. Whether it is unintentionally or not, most of the time they're just being stupid.
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Absolutely serious. You don't get to ignore the history of the word because "you don't mean it that way."
There are southern whites who pronounce it "nigga" bit sure a shit mean "nigger" so I am willing to bet a slave master or two has said "My nigga" before.
 
Chumley said:
The only thing I'm defending is the claim that he personally is a racist person, that he has deeply held racist beliefs. I'm not defending what he did or the word he used. I think he's a comedian who acts too familiar about the black community on his show, but as a person I've never gotten the vibe he's legitimately racist. I also don't know the guy personally, but if people who do know him personally say he isn't, I'm taking their word for it.

If that makes me a pathetic person, so fucking be it.
Click to expand...

What is "legitimately racist"?
 
TRD Mr Blonde said:
Jesus Christ people get over yourselves. You sound like 5 year olds kicking and screaming on the ground, "but it's my word no one else can use it". Is there any other nationality in the world that has the same view on a word that only they can say?
Click to expand...
As a gay man I hate it when straight people use the word fag, but thanks to two straight white dudes a whole bunch of people think it's okay for them to use it.
 
Enzom21 said:
Absolutely serious. You don't get to ignore the history of the word because "you don't mean it that way."
There are southern whites who pronounce it "nigga" bit sure a shit mean "nigger" so I am willing to bet a slave master or two has said "My nigga" before.
Click to expand...

Southern White is more "Niggraa" emphasis on the last "RAA" like the sun god
 
ChimpBottle said:
You serious? Even if you don't condone the use of the word by non-black people, you can't actually think that every time a white person addresses someone as "My nigga" they're actually meaning it in a derogatory way. Whether it is unintentionally or not, most of the time they're just being stupid.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ. I ain't black but if I said n---- in any form to any of my black friends they'd beat my ass and never speak to me again. I wouldn't blame them either; what right do I have to use it? Oh wait, I don't. I've gotten into fights with non-blacks who use the word around me, and I let them know I'm not putting up with that derogatory bullshit.

If you're not black don't use it. Doesn't matter about your intent or if you were quoting a lyric, or trying to be funny. The fact that you feel you have any right to use it for any reason whatsoever says a lot about you as a person.
 
Chumley said:
The only thing I'm defending is the claim that he personally is a racist person, that he has deeply held racist beliefs. I'm not defending what he did or the word he used. I think he's a comedian who acts too familiar about the black community on his show, but as a person I've never gotten the vibe he's legitimately racist. I also don't know the guy personally, but if people who do know him personally say he isn't, I'm taking their word for it.
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You don't have to be a flat out white supremacist to contribute to casual racism which Maher does, which is why Ice Cube told him sometimes he sounds like a redneck.
 
regardless of who says it i think it's an absolutely repulsive word that should be removed from the english vocabulary. period.

i don't think any non-blacks should be saying it at all or EVER; whether or not their black friends are ok with them saying it or not is irrelevant. have some moral/historic context. the word has its roots in genetic superiority/master race type bullshit, and treating another race as less than an animal. aside from the near genocide of the native americans, possibly the ugliest aspects of your american history.

as for blacks saying it to each other as a term of 'endearment', that's a discussion black people should have between themselves, and really not for anyone else to decide for them.
beyond that i truly don't see people as 'black' or 'white', or 'asian' etc etc. not anymore. i just see us all as collectively 'humans'. i know this sounds cliche and sappy, but when you discover how/why the 'race' issue was ever invented and it's purpose, you change your entire awareness of an issue.

and anytime anyone of us get caught up in race debates, we let those rich elite assholes continue to divide & conquer us. imo.
 
Gattsu25 said:
Anyone seeing the story on the front page of HuffingtonPost? It's oddly relevant to this discussion...


Edit: here's a direct link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...be9e4b024026879abe2?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
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So much truth written here

In this sense, racism is never inexcusable ― it is integral to our present society. Rather, it is the perpetrators of racism who are inexcusable ― never to be banished, always to be forgiven and welcomed among the masses. Espousing regressive views about people of color doesn’t deny you a television show. Often, in fact, espousing these views earns you one.
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Zero315 said:
You don't have to be a flat out white supremacist to contribute to casual racism.
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I agree with that, but I think trying to teach these people that what they're doing is wrong and helping them change is better than writing them off as racists who will never change. My Mom is 70 and used to say "colored people" when referring to black people, I don't really hear that anymore after letting her know its not cool these days to say that. Sometimes they're just ignorant, not actively malicious.
 
slightly off topic but has Tarantino ever adressed his "Jimmy" scene in Pulp Fiction? I thought that scene was awkward back THEN, let alone today.
 
Nepenthe said:
If I call my best friend a bitch for in a joking manner, does that mean it would be wise to call my mom or boss the same thing in the same manner?

Of course not. The same word can have different connotations, meanings, and levels of perceived insult depending upon the relationship of the speakers involved. Like, we all inherently know this because we all change our language habits accordingly depending upon whether we're talking to people above, on, or below our social status, and people of different levels of intimacy and relation.
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Sure, that's a thing we all recognize. We don't use the same words to speak with everyone in our lives and with each person comes a different meaning. But trying to generalize a racial slur to be equal to "calling my friend a Bitch in a friendly way" among everyone perceived to be "black" (Like, does a 1/3rd "black" person get to use it?) is silly to me when you see people as not being of one mind and opinion.

It can work for you and your circle of friends. But trying to push the "NO, it's bad when you use it! It's our word!" shit doesn't work on the large scale IMO. Like your example ... I'd never call a female I like a "bitch". It works for you but that's not how I roll so it would be strange and wrong for you to speak for me, right?
 
Chumley said:
I agree with that, but I think trying to teach these people that what they're doing is wrong and helping them change is better than writing them off as racists who will never change. My Mom is 70 and used to say "colored people" when referring to black people, I don't really hear that anymore after letting her know its not cool these days to say that. Sometimes they're just ignorant, not actively malicious.
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Maher doesn't want to learn
 
I don't understand why so many white people are desperate to say the word. Is it like a physical compulsion or something?
 
royalan said:
Who cares? Does any other nationality have the same exact historical experience and context that black Americans do? No.
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I have no horse in this race but context is key. It's a hurtful word to the black community so just don't use it what is so difficult?
 
There is a tad bit of hypocrisy in Ice Cube saying all of that and then preceding to plug a re-release of his album that uses a bunch of homophobic slurs, it would be nice if he could learn a bit from his own message. But whatever, what he said, and more importantly what the lady said was all great and really well articulated. Bill is still a douche bag
 
I may not be black but having to have endured racial slurs in my life I can somewhat relate. I hear lots of young people use the word and I always cringe. I like what Cube said tho "That's our word and you can't have it back".
 
Chumley said:
I agree with that, but I think trying to teach these people that what they're doing is wrong and helping them change is better than writing them off as racists who will never change. My Mom is 70 and used to say "colored people" when referring to black people, I don't really hear that anymore after letting her know its not cool these days to say that. Sometimes they're just ignorant, not actively malicious.
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And Maher has had it explained to him time and time again. He just doesn't give a fuck, otherwise stuff such as his usage of the word that lead to the video the thread is about wouldn't have happened to begin with. From one of the other Maher threads that was active recently:

theignoramus said:
Has this been posted yet:
Bill Maher in 2001, hosting a discussion with with one Black person, an Asian and three Whites about the word "nigger" and how Black people ought to feel about non-Blacks using the term.
Politically Incorrect - "Racist" jokes - David Spade Sarah Silverman Bill Maher
He starts off by,
1. questioning a Black woman's Blackness. ("I wouldnt have known you were Black if you hadnt told me")

2. Claims all Black people use the word "nigga" so he should be able to say it too. Then goes on to say it repeatedly in his Black guest's face because, he argues, since all Blacks use the term, we shouldnt be offended by him saying it.
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This ain't new for Maher. He's had it explained before numerous times. He then might back off a bit and let the situation cool down a bit, before he ends up going in again and pretending like none of that ever happened. It's not new behavior for him, so I see no reason this would be the time he would actually change. I'd like to be wrong about that--there's nothing I'd like better in fact--but I just can't see it, when he has a history of using pretty much every single talking point in the book of trying to defend it.
 
Lemaitre said:
Jesus Christ. I ain't black but if I said n---- in any form to any of my black friends they'd beat my ass and never speak to me again. I wouldn't blame them either; what right do I have to use it? Oh wait, I don't. I've gotten into fights with non-blacks who use the word around me, and I let them know I'm not putting up with that derogatory bullshit.

If you're not black don't use it. Doesn't matter about your intent or if you were quoting a lyric, or trying to be funny. The fact that you feel you have any right to use it for any reason whatsoever says a lot about you as a person.
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I mean, I don't. I typed it out just there because I'm actually talking about the word.

You have to realize that's unrealistic though. If you told a huge demographic of rap fans they can't sing along to certain lyrics, nobody's going to say "Well, okay."
 
Black-Wind said:
Sure, that's a thing we all recognize. We don't use the same words to speak with everyone in our lives and with each person comes a different meaning. But trying to generalize a racial slur to be equal to "calling my friend a Bitch in a friendly way" among everyone perceived to be "black" (Like, does a 1/3rd "black" person get to use it?) is silly to me when you see people as not being of one mind and opinion.

It can work for you and your circle of friends. But trying to push the "NO, it's bad when you use it! It's our word!" shit doesn't work on the large scale IMO. Like your example ... I'd never call a female I like a "bitch". It works for you but that's not how I roll so it would be strange and wrong for you to speak for me, right?
Click to expand...

I wasn't generalizing a slur. I was refuting your insistence that it's hypocritical to have multiple standards for the same word depending upon the relationship between the speaker and audience, which you apparently agree with me on.

Of course the contexts for any word's use can be further broken down the more individualized you get, and this is not the same as a blanket social ban on a word. Some non-black people get "hood passes" and some black people don't like using the word at all, just like- if you have that good or special of a relationship with your mom and boss- perhaps some people could get away with calling either of these persons a bitch.

However, there's nothing tricky about understanding the context of the word's historical usage among white people and thus why black people are so intent on white people as a whole simply erring on the side of caution, which for convenience's sake = "don't say it."
 
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