Now everybody uses a variation of it to refer to themselves. How is it not more common?
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Thats our word, and you cant have it back: Ice Cube confronts Bill Maher
- Thread starter Loudninja
- Start date
Now everybody uses a variation of it to refer to themselves. How is it not more common?
I grew up a white man and I had the shit bullied out of me because of my appearance all through primary school to high school, and I still carry the mental scars of that...
... but whenever I read about the shit the black community goes through, right down to white people casually and aggressively using the n-word, I'm flabbergasted at how calm and rational people are about the umpteenth fucking time some doofus types "but why can't I say it."
Because I could not be that calm and rational.
IrishNinja
Member
this is clearly a term that was, as cube said, used to weaponize/degrade for the majority of its history, and here we see a culture of said victims sometimes trying to own it in their own way. you, instead, want to blame said culture for what, being popular?
maybe the problem is the entitlement of white privilege running so very deep that, as this thread clearly illustrates, the white majority literally can't come to terms with being told something, as it currently stands (however popular) simply isn't for them. look at all these kneejerk reactions & heartfelt desires to tell the oppressed what words they can & can't say, what language should mean to them, etc. it's nonsense.
exactly
"everyone" is? are you? nahh, this entire thing is quite literally because that's not the case
"faggot" was far more socially acceptable in the 90's, but it was just as fucked up to say it then as it is now - whether we knew better or not.
it doesn't matter if kids don't yet know better on some shit - if you're not black, don't use it. it's not even remotely hard to grasp.
Knightmarre
Member
Words are not possesions. Anyone is free to say the word as long as they accept any reprocussions.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
That word was forged from the blood, sweat, and torture of ancestors.
That debt as not been repaid.
That debt as not been repaid.
Mesousa, I tend to like your afrocentric posts in these kinds of threads. But you aren't even trying here.
I know two variants of the word. Enlighten me on the others.
IrishNinja
Member
sure, sure
and that rightfully includes getting the taste slapped out of your mouth for saying it recklessly to strangers, or say, losing your show as maher would've in a righteous world
perfect example of a NUFF SAID post
You aren't answering the question though. Why are young people, OF ALL RACES comfortable calling themselves and their friends this word now. WHO NORMALIZED IT, AND WHO BENEFITS FROM IT?
Ice Cube can talk about it being "Our word" all he wants, but his music is consumed by a majority of non black folks and he has played a role in making these people feel like they are a part of the culture to say it now. He helped normalize it.
Words are also things you have to spell correctly. So no offence, but you're the last person I'd trust regarding context of the using of the n-word
Fast Forward
Member
BTW, Cube was more than fair, even if you are a Maher super fan. He made it super clear multiple times he's a fan of the show.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
What exactly is the problem? You are aware it's a fictional movie and the actor is portraying a character?
I'm 100% in agreement that white people should not use the word, but if you extend that so far as to include demonizing white actors portraying racist characters there's something wrong with your head.
You like my afrocentric posts when I am not challenging something you seem to hold dear(Hip hop music), which is fair since we all have our bias.
The fact remains:
People who look like Maher have made a pretty penny exploiting black culture to sell to masses, and everybody who has played their game(including Cube) have played a role in normalizing it. To the point where kids are running around calling themselves it.
Knightmarre
Member
People who cant spell should not lecture others on spelling.
Pinko Marx
Banned
I'm black. I love that scene. It still plays today.
It's supposed to be awkward, it's a suburban dad cussing out two Hitman who brought a dead guy to his house.
Offence is a correct spelling.
"Real" Cube had good reasons for being angry and had lots of useful things to say about the fucked up reality of his youth and the plight of black people, but one of the most impressive things about him is how he grew up and pulled himself out of the shit. For a man at the forefront of gangsta rap, he didn't drown himself in the stupid bullshit that got so many of them killed or sent to prison. He stopped rapping about "faggots", stopped picking fights and was quick to bury the hatchet with people.
I'm legit impressed by him as a human being.
IrishNinja
Member
tarentino's a legend in the game & forever been a white dude who thinks he should be invited to every cookout & able to use a hard R on the n-word whenever he pleases, cause fuck ya life. no idea why this should surprise anyone.
...because it's an inane question? cube was on some 5% nation anti-semetic shit for a minute there too, and as was the case with a lotta artists at the time, had a handful of misogynistic tracks. why doesn't he own normalizing that, like many genres do with violent imagery/etc?
your argument presupposes that hearing something on a track dictates (or, at best, enables/pardons) behavior, i'm saying that's bullshit. it's every bit as illogical as saying the beatles post meeting dylan are responsible for NORMALIZING hallucinogens. that's not at all how things work.
...because it's an inane question? cube was on some 5% nation anti-semetic shit for a minute there too, and as was the case with a lotta artists at the time, had a handful of misogynistic tracks. why doesn't he own normalizing that, like many genres do with violent imagery/etc?
your argument presupposes that hearing something on a track dictates (or, at best, enables/pardons) behavior, i'm saying that's bullshit. it's every bit as illogical as saying the beatles post meeting dylan are responsible for NORMALIZING hallucinogens. that's not at all how things work.
It most certainly does, which is why culture is such a scary thing to people. One need only go on a college campus across the country to see proof that music has changed culture. The Indian kids call each other niggas. The Asian kids call each other niggas. The black kids call each other niggas. The white kids(when alone) will call each other niggas. Its been normalized to all of them, and we all know it was the music that did it.
Fast Forward
Member
And I HONESTLY, I was expecting WORSE. After reading this topic, I was expecting WORSE. If anything, I was expecting Cube to be a lot more critical, so yeah, even if you are a Maher super fan, nothing Cube said here was out of line, and believe me, I say that as someone who likes Maher a lot, despite my problems with him.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
this whole thing smells of marketing (yt meets cable) Seems set up to me but whatever. Money talks and it seems to be working but atleast it gets the message out at the same time
I work on a college campus. Have never heard any of this.
If it was normalized, it wouldn't be white kids (when alone).
You live in a white city so of course. I meant a diverse college campus where the races I listed would be present in large enough numbers to have their own distinct groups with representation on the campus.
IrishNinja
Member
i work at an international university in miami, feel pretty exposed to different cultures out here
okay? this sounds super anecdotal, and white kids are gonna say whatever the fuck they want, cause that's kinda the point.
did hip hop also normalize homophobia? misogyny? or are these things that predate/are larger than one genre? if something wildly popular in the day like in living color, martin's show etc used the n-word more frequently, you're saying what, that gives a pass to all the people recklessly out of line using it?
to paint with a very broad brush here: jack thompson made a popular argument about violent video games/media being directly responsible for actual violence, employing similar logic. this is really where you wanna take it with cube, a dude who rode against police violence long before it was popular? who highlighted white privilege literally decades before the internet was ready for that conversation?
did he likewise normalize some of these very conversations with my skin is my sin? i wanna kill sam? bird in the hand? etc etc. because i'm not seeing where you're going with this.
okay? this sounds super anecdotal, and white kids are gonna say whatever the fuck they want, cause that's kinda the point.
did hip hop also normalize homophobia? misogyny? or are these things that predate/are larger than one genre? if something wildly popular in the day like in living color, martin's show etc used the n-word more frequently, you're saying what, that gives a pass to all the people recklessly out of line using it?
to paint with a very broad brush here: jack thompson made a popular argument about violent video games/media being directly responsible for actual violence, employing similar logic. this is really where you wanna take it with cube, a dude who rode against police violence long before it was popular? who highlighted white privilege literally decades before the internet was ready for that conversation?
did he likewise normalize some of these very conversations with my skin is my sin? i wanna kill sam? bird in the hand? etc etc. because i'm not seeing where you're going with this.
excelsiorlef
Member
...
Because it literally isn't?
And everyone doesn't?
Maher making this joke in the past wouldn't have caused any commotion.
I work in the college of engineering. It's plenty diverse.
Friedrich Nietzsche said, "The right of the master to give names extends so far that we could permit ourselves to grasp the origin of language itself as an expression of the power of the rulers: they say ”that is such and such," seal every object and event with a sound and, in the process, as it were, take possession of it."
Language is an expression of power. That word has been used to cement white people's power over black people for centuries. Fairness isn't even a factor here; you don't say that word if you are white; otherwise, you admit that you don't give a shit about the power or social disparity affecting black people in America, or worse, that you are actively resisting the end of white power over people of color.
Language is an expression of power. That word has been used to cement white people's power over black people for centuries. Fairness isn't even a factor here; you don't say that word if you are white; otherwise, you admit that you don't give a shit about the power or social disparity affecting black people in America, or worse, that you are actively resisting the end of white power over people of color.
Other black people have mentioned noticing this phenom throughout this very thread though. I am not just pulling this out of my ass.
I would never blame hip hop for normalizing homophobia or misogyny because we can all agree this was a phenom that existed before it came along, but older black folks will tell you that when they were coming up other kids wasn't throwing around nigga the way they are now. If you don't believe me go to an older barbershop and ask them. Its completely different with kids these days. It didnt appear out of nowhere. You play the game in letting a guy commodify you for the masses, then the chickens will come home to roost. It isnt "Our Word" when you have invited them into the fold. I am not blaming Cube alone for this though. He is a pawn in the game. We know who has really benefitted from selling stereotypical images of black people worldwide. Hell...its been done since the minstrel shows.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
I feel like a lot of people saying "wow he's really impatient and not taking it seriously" don't have the context for this. This Ice Cube thing came after 10 minutes had been spent on this conversation with another guest.
IrishNinja
Member
i dig your perspective here. i do.
i guess part of me has a hard time because i adore some of these MC's and putting so much on them (despite their efforts) feels wrong, you know?
case in point: this classic track in the day, as one of MIA's few remaining cac's, never told me it was cool for me to drop that word - quite the opposite. but said track's all about what you're calling normalizing.
do you think tip was wrong for this? can you likewise appreciate what he was going for here, without giving a pass to people who weren't open to it? i guess for me, it was easier because there was all kinds of violent/misogynistic imagery/lyrics in the boom-bap NY scene forever that i never thought was telling me i should emulate it.
mooney was so spot-on about these matters it's amazing he's not considered a prophet
Nah, (#notall) white people never have patience when we're trying to explain our side. Oh noes, not 10 minutes on this topic. If he was really sorry, he'd have at least pretended like he wanted to hear what cube had to say and not visibly shut down when it was obvious he wasn't hearing what he wanted.
metalslimer
Member
Uh, if I fucked up that bad, I certainly wouldn't tune out after 10 fucking minutes if I actually gave a damn about why I had fucked up
Sony
Nintendo
I think the black community has to stop using the word because then the consequences of a white person using the word are more severe. Then it's like saying a banned word. Now, I keep hearing the N word in various forms of media.
Yes, white people should definitely not use the word but I think it'd time we gradually go toward deleting the word from everyone's vocabulary, even the black community.
Yes, white people should definitely not use the word but I think it'd time we gradually go toward deleting the word from everyone's vocabulary, even the black community.
Stead Fast
Banned
After watching it, Maher just comes off as nonchalant as fuck, like this whole show was to patronise any black person offended by saying "see, we got you guys on here to fix this and set me straight". The comments of him looking bored of the thing 10 minutes in are on point, he's hardly engaging, just running out the clock so he can go to his producer and ask "you think that was enough?". This'll be the last time I give the privileged shit time of day.
I feel you. I can understand its hard to take an objective look at something we love.
I don't feel any hatred listening to that song. It invites everybody into the house though.
IrishNinja
Member
bruh lemme stop you right here
yeah, it's not an average look at the use of the word, for sure - part of me feels it's hard for you to toss cube or tip's example here out with the far more often/flippant use the word enjoys otherwise.
this also stems from my instinct to be reluctant to blame POC from the fuckery majority (and even other minority groups) employ, but i don't mean this kneejerk reaction to in any way discount the point you're making.
just that, if another white person made it, i'd be far less open to hearing it. i figure you can kinda appreciate the levels here.
Yep.
But that's the thing. He doesn't think he fucked up. Tons of other people don't either. And a strong narrative throughout this thread (and elsewhere) is that it's black people's fault.
White privilege is a mother fucker. Dude is openly racist and yet the oppressed are being blamed for allowing the word to continue to exist.
Professor Beef
Banned
IrishNinja
Member
this, all day
the arguments for CONSISTENCY and OMG DOUBLE STANDARDS are laughably bad, because all assume a level playing field which you've really gotta be deep in a bubble to actually assume...but here we are
kills me that dudes i otherwise respect like killer mike are caping for this shit & allowing a ton of internet fuckboys that damn well aren't trying to hear him on RAP music & other shit co-signining cause he's on that anti PC bullshit
u wrong on FF, shenmoo and so much on gaming
but u my dude beefy
TyrantGuardian
Member
I think the point was that maybe you shouldn't blame people of color and put the burden on them to solve white people using a word that carries a ridiculously huge history of oppression.
It hurt me when I heard him say house nigger because that shit still plays out today in jokes about black people not being able to read, how speaking proper English is sounding white, how I can get complimented for being so articulate. I'm looking to study black literature for grad school, and I've heard so many times, "isn't it stereotypical for a black person to study the Harlem renaissance?" But I'd never hear the same thing about a white person. Norms and stereotypes that began in Slavery are still so pervasive in our culture, it hurts. Literally hurts. And to see people defending him and blaming us just makes me tired.
I'm gonna go play tekken.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
Everyone wants to throw in their two cents but don't want to pay reparations.
I'll tell em come up off them duckets, shawt.
Patterbits
Member
Ripped from our continent, sold around the world, made slaves, denied rights, denied humanity, unable to vote. The worst of us became examples of our inferiority, the best of us were just murdered. There are around a quarter million unique English words, and after all that's been taken from us apparently we can't have a single 5 letter word.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
White supremacy and white privilege is founded at the root circular thought of "I'm white and I say so". When a person does not take in account the thoughts of others, their ingrained sense of superiority won't allow them to see that they can be wrong.
You could see that with Bill Maher when he kept interrupting him. You could also tell that Ice didn't respect him and was only there for business purposes since he wouldn't look over at him.
Professor Beef
Banned
you used the N-word...