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‘I’ve quit football at 22 to become a churchgoer, I don’t want to play on Saturdays because it’s my day of rest’

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Tams

Member
You sounded so reasonable, even the entering religion part, until this:

Christ is king

What is this waffle? Why would God, should he/she/it exist, care about kings? Monarchs are a human social construct.

It's the type of thing someone who has been deeply indoctrinated spouts.

You sound reasonable for the most part, so why not turn your efforslts and worries to something benign like 'mindfullness' (without the Buddhist nonsense)?

For what it's worth, it was Buddhism that made me realise how pointless and wrong any and all religions are.
 

midnightAI

Banned
Ah yes, nothing says 'I was definitely an atheist' like a list of metal music.

I don't think you're allowed to be an atheist unless you like metal. It says it in the book they give us at the orientation meeting, where we also eat a baby, learn how to apply black lipstick and worship at a picture of Richard Dawkins riding a T-Rex.
Part of the issue with 'some' religious people is that they think atheism is a religion also, which it isn't (I still don't like the word atheism or atheist, it shouldnt need to be labeled and it's the word itself that makes some think it's a religion, 'I'm not religious' should be acceptable. A weird personal thing I know, but I also don't like the term cisgender, I'm male, a man)
 
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kurisu_1974

Member
Basically, God exists because the Bible says so

AND

The Bible is the truth... Why? Because God says so IN THE BIBLE.

That's all you need to know in a discussion with these characters.

And to the Einstein above claiming there's no proof of god not existing: we can't prove a negative, also the burden is on you not on us.
 
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This is not true, these people have the idea that Sunday is a day to go to church and not that it is the biblical Saturday. Because there is no basis for it. Many of them just accepted this because that was what their companions did, and not because it came from God's order and instructions. The Seventh day has basis and authority in the word of God, Sunday does not. The Sabbath has instructions on how to observe it correctly, Sunday does not. It is associated with several events in the Bible such as the creation and redemption of the people being made and declared by God himself, not Sunday. Jesus kept this day and taught him the right way to observe it, not Sunday. God wrote it on stone tablets with his finger, not Sunday.

I don't know which God you believe in, but the genuine Christian is based on the God of the word and Jesus said it is the truth:

John 17:17: "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
Ps 119:9,11: "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. … Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

Because there is no Christian, no Christianity without the Bible because Jesus as God is taught and testified only in It. Do you know how Jesus refuted all of Satan's deceptions and temptations?, quoting only the Word:

Mat 4:3-4: "And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

That's why I quote the word so much, because She is the truth, She has the power to instruct, convert, rebuke, advise, discipline, bless, welcome, reveal the desires of the heart but human opinion does not have that power. Do you and others here think that the Bible is the most produced and read book in the world? No, she actually has the power of God. You can give any book in the world to prisoners, but none will have the same power over them as the Bible. All this and many more is just testimony to the fact that it is the truth.

Using the appeal to the majority is a bad argument, because it was the majority of Jews who rejected Jesus, it was a majority who rejected Noah's preaching. And a large majority will be lost:

Mat 7:13-14: "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadseth unto life, and few there be that find it."

I have the Bible, the Word of God to affirm the truth, who do you have? Roma? Constantine? People who perform certain rites without questioning their origin? None of this or anything you want has more authority than the sacred scriptures, which, as Jesus said, are the truth. But once I tell you, based on what Jesus said, people would not be lost because they did not know the truth, but rather because they chose to reject it, because their works were evil. Which side are you on?

Biblically, faith is based on an experience and relationship with God, whether through the most varied forms. It is not something blind and irrational. In the Bible, and today, people know why they are following Jesus it is based on something, it is not blind trust. You said that faith can take a person to a bad place, but God says otherwise:

Heb 11:6: "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

The spirit of the antichrist is to put himself in God's place, that's what you are doing and that is what the Roman power in the middle ages did by changing the day of worship established by God.


Tell us your story, what you were and did and what made you change your mind. Why are you angry with God?
I appreciate your responses, it shows me that you're interested in seeking the truth and in using scripture to support your position. When it comes to the question of which day of the week the sabbath is though, despite your many quotes you haven't brought any scriptural evidence on that particular subject because it doesn't exist.

You have said there's no basis for Sunday to be considered the sabbath, and people just accepted it because that's what others were telling them. Those Sunday worshippers would likely say the same thing about Saturday worshippers, and they would have just as much evidence as you to support it.

You have to realize at some point that you're just repeating what people have told you, there's no scriptural evidence for what you're saying. If it was that important which day of the week the 7th day is you would think god would have mentioned it. Both Sunday and Saturday worshippers are keeping their 7th day holy, but you're really sure the other guys are doing it wrong, and without any evidence from scripture which is supposed to be the source of truth.

Gets you to thinking, maybe faith has some limitations in what it can teach us about truth?
 

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
This isn't the flex he and some in this thread think it is. Tons of people would like to quit their jobs for a multitude of reasons but they can't because they don't want to starve to death or live under a bridge. If he gives away all his money becomes a missionary in some underdeveloped country eschewing fame then I'll give him some credit.
 
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Kraz

Member
Basically, God exists because the Bible says so
In hypotheticals with it as an explanation. Aristotle had the concept of the Prime Mover, but it wasn't a religious thing, it was an attempt at an explanation of observation and experience.

That his theory came about before the Septuagint was written is intriguing. Especially with A's attitude to religion.
 
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-Minsc-

Member
I can see it as an inspiration for people to be firm in taking a day of rest per week. It can be all too easy to be in the "Go Go Go" mindset, even when we should be relaxing.
 

Soodanim

Member
Exodus 20:4-6: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”

So God's jealous when it comes to other gods, right? How does he feel about his Sabbath day, Saturday, being named for a Roman god?
 

FunkMiller

Member
Exodus 20:4-6: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”

So God's jealous when it comes to other gods, right? How does he feel about his Sabbath day, Saturday, being named for a Roman god?

Shhh. Don't bring up all those equally valid/invalid religions that existed before Christianity. They don't like that.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Only thing I can add to this thread is that Sabbath means stopped all work, literally meaning a strike, in Hebrew.

People do find faith and need support.
 

Miyazaki’s Slave

Gold Member
Its always been my impression that folks committed deeply to their faith attribute much of their success to that source of faith. Maybe he would just be "mid at best" if he didn't believe in a power greater than himself.

Whatever...jesus don't want me for a sunbeam but its cool others can bask in it!
 

midnightAI

Banned
Exodus 20:4-6: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”

So God's jealous when it comes to other gods, right? How does he feel about his Sabbath day, Saturday, being named for a Roman god?
Don't even mention most of the others are Norse
 
I find it funny how outright aggressive the militant atheists here are.

Listen folks, you’re not as smart as you think you are. Read some non fiction and science books. You’ll be surprised how many extremely smart people throughout history (and today) either were religious or very open minded about it.

Read Pensees from Pascal a few months ago and currently digging through Ethics from Spinoza and that stuff is wild.

Whether you believe in the Biblical God is on thing but after digging a bit through Science and Philosophy I find it inconceivable to go through life and not believe in a higher power.
 

Tams

Member
I find it funny how outright aggressive the militant atheists here are.

Listen folks, you’re not as smart as you think you are. Read some non fiction and science books. You’ll be surprised how many extremely smart people throughout history (and today) either were religious or very open minded about it.

Read Pensees from Pascal a few months ago and currently digging through Ethics from Spinoza and that stuff is wild.

Whether you believe in the Biblical God is on thing but after digging a bit through Science and Philosophy I find it inconceivable to go through life and not believe in a higher power.

There is only one militant person here, and they are a religious one.

The science you apparently hold dear has shown precisely zero evidence of gods of any form.

That some of those who have helped advance science were religious has no bearing on whether science supports any religion at all.
 
There is only one militant person here, and they are a religious one.

The science you apparently hold dear has shown precisely zero evidence of gods of any form.

That some of those who have helped advance science were religious has no bearing on whether science supports any religion at all.
It has a lot of bearing actually that humans smart enough to question and unravel a lot of nature (a level of thinking I assume no one here on GAF is capable of) were and are still open minded of creation….

And the lack of proof is in my opinion not that damning to religion. Why? Because it’s irrelevant. I thought about this quite a lot when I read the Bible. At first I was like… How dumb can the Jews possibly be? All God wants is obedience and they just can’t help to pray to other Gods when he doesn’t show himself for a bit. Then I look at what is unfolding today politically and start asking myself… why do I think the Jews were dumb? People forget SOOOOO fast. I mean, God could be hurling lightning and fire tomorrow, 20 years later you’d have people claiming he doesn’t exist… And you probably know this as well.
 
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