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[Petalpusher]

No they are not. They are definitely CPU parts. And used in thousands of servers across the world with no GPU's in sight.

The kind of servers that tend to be replaced by gpu computing machines, and the exact reason why they were picking Cell instead of some standard general purpose cpu in the first place just before we got all the gpgpu trend.

The Cell was not a traditionnal CPU, not even close. Sony even considered at one point to go with 2 Cell and no GPU. Cell PPE didn't offload anything worth noting from the GPU, the real stuff usually handled by GPU was on the SPUs. And that was the goal, not often achieved because it was complicated (except for 1st party)

PS4 and X1 CPUs are very different from what the Cell was offfering. It's not a bad thing, at all, considering how ease of access is a must today, but we can't compare their utilizations (we can compare PPE to Jaguar)

 

[cyberheater]

Ceteris paribus, the difference is so marginal as to be barely worth mentioning. It is not a meaningful improvement.

Nearly 10% performance increase across all cores is not meaningful?

 

[ElTorro]

Total CPU capability

Xb1>ps4?

If clocks stay at 1,75/1,6 then yes, of course.

CPU allocation to OS is of course a variable, but don't have solid evidence concerning how much of a variable that really is. My guess would be that they would leave it as it is as long as developers are not complaining. Allocation is something that can be changed after launch, if possible and necessary.

Audio is, in my opinion, exaggerated at the moment. People are using one-dimensional metrics to represent very heterogeneous, fixed hardware-functions which is almost always invalid. The thing with SHAPE is that we have a name for that hardware because it leaked (and because of the HotChips slides), so people are more aware of it. In addition, we have little evidence on what the PS4's audio chip does. Apparently, KZ:SF offloaded audio work to that hardware in a later build.

 

[Osiris]

2 threads =/= 1 core, now in your computer you're using many threads. and if you look at your Task manager you won't see 100% cpu usage. You Pc have max 4 cores. (8 if you're i7)

Spoiler

Guys excuse my poor word selection, I'm trying to simplify to Thekayle

Going into details about concurrency might be a step too far

 

[Faith]

Ceteris paribus, the difference is so marginal as to be barely worth mentioning. It is not a meaningful improvement.

So if there is a scene in the game where the CPU is at 100% and you only need 5-10% more CPU power to keep 30fps, then it's also just marginal?

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

Only for plane scaling and compositing, that is, for combining two separately rendered display outputs.

So, basically, it will be cheaper and more fancy than any other overlay.

Or do people actually think that things like Steam overlay or even the PS3, 360 or any other overlay are free?

 

[Chobel]

It's actually an infinite advantage for the Xbox One. Let me explain :

SHAPE requires the whole rack of jaguar cores. For the PS4 to match this wowzer awesome secret sauce, it must dedicate all of its CPU resources, which will leave it powerless. From 0 to 8 (or even 6) CPU cores corresponds to infinity!

PS4 is doomed, You can't play game and have sound. You choose only one, muted video or listen to music.
PS4 is iPod confirmed!!!

 

[TheKayle]

It's actually an infinite advantage for the Xbox One. Let me explain :

SHAPE requires the whole rack of jaguar cores. For the PS4 to match this wowzer awesome secret sauce, it must dedicate all of its CPU resources, which will leave it powerless. From 0 to 8 (or even 6) CPU cores corresponds to infinity!

and you have to add the move engines and the cloud powa........

cmon the ps4 will be the king and you will be fine....now i go to play lol

 

[Chobel]

Going into details about concurrency might be a step too far

I know, I'm just trying to simplify shit to Thekayle

 

[beast786]

Ceteris paribus, the difference is so marginal as to be barely worth mentioning. It is not a meaningful improvement.

If clocks stay at 1,75/1,6 then yes, of course.

CPU allocation to OS is of course a variable, but don't have solid evidence concerning how much of a variable that really is. My guess would be that they would leave it as it is as long as developers are not complaining. Allocation is something that can be changed after launch, if possible and necessary.

Audio is, in my opinion, exaggerated at the moment. People are using one-dimensional metrics to represent very heterogeneous, fixed hardware-functions which is almost always invalid. The thing with SHAPE is that we have a name for that hardware because it leaked (and because of the HotChips slides), so people are more aware of it. In addition, we have little evidence on what the PS4's audio chip does. Apparently, KZ:SF offloaded audio work to that hardware in a later build.

thanks for answering . I thought ps4 had more cores?

regardless nice to see a spec bump

 

[TheKayle]

So if there is a scene in the game where the CPU is at 100% and you only need 5-10% more CPU power to keep 30fps, then it's also just marginal?

this will never happen on ps4...coz of cerny

 

[Osiris]

I know, I'm just trying to simplify shit to Thekayle

I tried that, it's like trying to push treacle through a lead ingot.

 

[twobear]

So if there is a scene in the game where the CPU is at 100% and you only need 5-10% more CPU power to keep 30fps, then it's also just marginal?

In this highly idealised and probably unrealistic scenario, it still would only be a marginal difference, yes.

 

[KidBeta]

this will never happen on ps4...coz of cerny

Or because theres, around you know, 400GFLOPS (or ~2x the CPU in the consoles) to offload the CPU tasks too.

 

[Klocker]

where?

a dev on b3d who has worked on 360 and now ps4 game several months ago hinted and I'm on my phone so can't find right now

he did not disclose, he just said something about don't be surprised if all consoles wouldn't be similar in that regard

also Killzone devs showed two cores and that's been backed up around here recently iirc

 

[TheKayle]

I know, I'm just trying to simplify shit to Thekayle

no u dont have pls....i like to improve myself trying to understand things ...is this that make a human different from the rest

but also i know when i need to change my opinion..and in this case.....you should just admit

xb1 cpu > ps4 cpu

end of the story

 

[Chobel]

this will never happen on ps4...coz of cerny

Now you're just trolling.

 

[TheKayle]

Or because theres, around you know, 400GFLOPS (or ~2x the CPU in the consoles) to offload the CPU tasks too.

im not sure anymore that there are that 400 gflops in real world performance anymore kid

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

It is not fixed any way shape or form, the software is free to do whatever the hardware can, theres no need to sacrifice speed nor accuracy unless you really want to, or have to.

If you decide to use HW acceleration, you will have to stick to whatever that HW can do. If your DSP is only able to manage 320kbps and you want 640kbps, you will have to use software on main CPU.

Easy as that.

 

[KidBeta]

no u dont have pls....i like to improve myself trying to understand things ...is this that make a human different from the rest

but also i know when i need to change my opinion..and in this case.....you should just admit

xb1 cpu > ps4 cpu

end of the story

Sure. As long as you admit.

PS4 GPU > XBONE GPU
PS4 Bandwidth > XBONE Bandwidth

If you decide to use HW acceleration, you will have to stick to whatever that HW can do. If your DSP is only able to manage 320kbps and you want 640kbs, you will have to use software on main CPU.

Easy as that.

Oh yeah, of course, I thought you were talking about software so nm.

 

[Chobel]

a dev on b3d who has worked on 360 and now ps4 game several months ago hinted and I'm on my phone so can't find right now

he did not disclose, he just said something about don't be surprised if all consoles wouldn't be similar in that regard

also Killzone devs showed two cores and that's been backed up around here recently iirc

2 CPU cores maybe, but PS4 OS probably won't use 10% of GPU because it doesn't have Snap.

 

[Pug]

thanks for answering . I thought ps4 had more cores?

regardless nice to see a spec bump

PS4 has exactly the same CPU as Xbox one.

 

[TheKayle]

Sure. As long as you admit.

PS4 GPU > XBONE GPU
PS4 Bandwidth > XBONE Bandwidth





Oh yeah, of course, I thought you were talking about software so nm.

i did long time ago..if u remember.....(also if on the bandwith im curious to see how it will end ...xb1 have a fashinating combination of things)
but here for someone else is hard to face the evidence

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Sure. As long as you admit.

PS4 GPU > XBONE GPU
PS4 Bandwidth > XBONE Bandwidth





Oh yeah, of course, I thought you were talking about software so nm.

Seems like you're pretty determined to 1 up any good news about x1.

 

[cebri.one]

2 CPU cores maybe, but PS4 OS probably won't use 10% of GPU because it doesn't have Snap.

PS4 is not reserving also 10% of the GPU? Well, that's something new to me.

 

[Faith]

In this highly idealised and probably unrealistic scenario, it still would only be a marginal difference, yes.

CPU scaling is much more complicate than GPU scaling. There will be same cases where we will se the lack of CPU power in the PS4.

 

[qa_engineer]

So many adorable posts in this thread.

 

[KidBeta]

im not sure anymore that there are that 400 gflops in real world performance anymore kid

I'm not sure theres 9% real world difference in the upclock anymore thekayle.

Seems like you're pretty determined to 1 up any good news about x1.

Its good news, great even, but the problem is some people are acting like a 9% clock increase is some huge advantage.

 

[mangochutney]

It is all about the games, but a faster clock doesn't exactly hurt, does it?

Nope - but when people dismiss inferior specs as not being important only to then applaud a spec increase, they're being hypocritical and shows their bias.

 

[Klocker]

2 CPU cores maybe, but PS4 OS probably won't use 10% of GPU because it doesn't have Snap.

perhaps but then why does 360 also reserve gpu percentage? That's the rub on the snap suggestion

 

[Interfectum]

38 pages for 150mhz bump. my god

 

[TheKayle]

I'm not sure theres 9% real world difference in the upclock anymore thekayle.



Its good news, great even, but the problem is some people are acting like a 9% clock increase is some huge advantage.

ahahah you are great ...ok i go see u soon kid

 

[quickwhips]

How many version of Windows 95 can the xbox run now? I know my packard bell 75 mhz was a beast.

 

[twobear]

CPU scaling is much more complicate than GPU scaling. There will be same cases where we will se the lack of CPU power in the PS4.

PS4's GPCPU capabilities are much better, though, so there are likely to be situations where CPU functions could be offloaded to the GPU, meaning the PS4 will still be ahead.

That's if you maintain that you want to compare them; I was merely comparing a 1.75GHz Xbone to a 1.6Ghz Xbone; the difference is basically negligible.

 

[Vizzeh]

Are we not forgetring the 3 os and kinnect probably requires more overheads anyway? So the difference maybe nullified. (Where as the ps4 has the secondary chip for the eye)

Not too mention ifnits the same cpu in both the ps4 and x1.. ps4 can simply raise their clocks (or maybe they already have and the data isnt released yet)

From what I understand the GPU will be doing thr vast majority of the gaming computations etc anyway. Lets not forget the cpu's aint THAT special

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

The kind of servers that tend to be replaced by gpu computing machines, and the exact reason why they were picking Cell instead of some standard general purpose cpu in the first place just before we got all the gpgpu trend.

The Cell was not a traditionnal CPU, not even close. Sony even considered at one point to go with 2 Cell and no GPU. Cell PPE didn't offload anything worth noting from the GPU, the real stuff usually handled by GPU was on the SPUs. And that was the goal, not often achieved because it was complicated (except for 1st party)

PS4 and X1 CPUs are very different from what the Cell was offfering. It's not a bad thing, at all, considering how ease of access is a must today, but we can't compare their utilizations (we can compare PPE to Jaguar)

I'm with you. Cell is just a crappy CPU with powerful programmable DSP's.

 

[Chobel]

perhaps but then why does 360 also reserve gpu percentage? That's the rub on the snap suggestion

Ask Microsoft. Really, what does X360 have to do with PS4? PS3 OS didn't use reserve GPU cores AFAIK.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Richard Leadbetter is at it again. Oh boy.

I dunno about you guys, but personally, I just can't WAIT for those face offs!

 

[Row]

really lol

ok with this im done...

i.e: I'm taking my ball and going home

 

[Pistolero]

im not sure anymore that there are that 400 gflops in real world performance anymore kid

Spoken like a skeptical engineer! This guy! Lol!

 

[Klocker]

Ask Microsoft. Really, what does X360 have to do with PS4? PS3 OS didn't use GPU AFAIK.

360 does not have snap either and yet it reserved the gpu. so just saying oh yea snap is why ps4 will not reserve and xbone will is not a conclusion

 

[Pug]

I dunno about you guys, but personally, I just can't WAIT for those face offs!

Well they will say the PS4 has the better looking games won't they? Not sure how Digital Foundary will be able to cover that up!

 

[beast786]

PS4 has exactly the same CPU as Xbox one.

Thanks

 

[Skeff]

Well they will say the PS4 has the better looking games won't they? Not sure how Digital Foundary will be able to cover that up!

Maybe they'll just complain about lazy developers like the FF XIII face off?

 

[Diablohead]

The days when my p60 PC with some really small ram size would have trouble running Red Alert 1 in DOS yet I still played the shit out of it.

 

[twobear]

Ask Microsoft. Really, what does X360 have to do with PS4? PS3 OS didn't use reserve GPU cores AFAIK.

No, and you can tell. Although as I recall they did reserve an SPU for it.

 

[Jonboy]

Me coming into this thread...

 

[cyberheater]

That's if you maintain that you want to compare them; I was merely comparing a 1.75GHz Xbone to a 1.6Ghz Xbone; the difference is basically negligible.

And you're wrong. A 10% increase in performance will be used by the devs. More power is more power.

 

[Chobel]

360 does not have snap either and yet it reserved the gpu. so just saying oh yea snap is why ps4 will not reserve and xbone will is not a conclusion

Ok I tried googling for this "Xbox 360 reserve GPU" but found nothing. Do you mind providing links? I'm not saying that you're lying, but I really wanna know why would X360 would reserve some GPU time/core.

 

[iceatcs]

Nearly 10% performance increase across all cores is not meaningful?

Yep, I think you need better GPU. I learned from PS3, better CPU but GPU bring down.