Again: Casuals. Will. Not. Spend. $500. They simply won't do this. They will wait until both consoles get cheaper.
And when this happens, it's a good idea to expand the appeal of those consoles. This is what Microsoft has done with Xbox 360. They did not launch with Kinect. They launched with a powerful console and released Kinect when the price was down. Now they are making a console which in their minds appeals to both groups from the beginning, casuals and hardcore gamers, but in reality this console does not really appeal to any of them: Casuals won't buy such a expensive console and hardcore gamers are mostly not interested in a less powerful console.
ia'm saying the X1 is like the wii because it comes with a new motion controller, but the X1 also has the benefit of having competitive hardware.
I think Kinect champions has some wow factor with the facial scanning and snazzy graphics combined with near 1.1 controls and even if its not as much as the wii, its more the PS4 which counts for something even if the price is higher.
Well, if I'm a casual and own a 360, most probably I already know what the kinect is, so in my eyes there's no new motion controllers in the Xbone: where's the compelling reason to upgrade it, even more so if that upgrade costs 500$?
If I'm a causal and own a Wii, well, most probably I'm gaming on my smartphone or some facebook crap now and would never touch any dedicated gaming machine ever again.
So I think you (and MS) are betting a little too much in the kinect and casuals effect.
And I feel people are betting to much on the the PS4's price and hardware advantage.
When the dust settles and the early adopters have brought a PS4. The mass market will see the PS4 as a PS3 but with prettier graphics, where is the differentiator!
No he's not. I know quite a few folks who have an Xbox 360 and Kinect. My kids and their kids love it. It's a great fun device. It is in no way shape or form a gimmick.
lmao
Come on, man.
No way!
And the casual boom, which the Wii had, isn't there for the XBone.
Kinect? Already known (see Xbox360). It's nothing special.
People won't buy a 500$ system just for a "Xbox360 gimmick"
Let's round it up for arguments sake, and call it 12:9 or 4:3.
You believe MS will sell 3 consoles for every 4 ps4s world wide? Even though we've been hearing rumoured preorder numbers between 2:1 up to 8:1 in some European nations. And I don't believe MS is going to even bother with Japan till late next year.
Maybe if MS do a huge turn around on their product, PS3 style, I could see end of generation 55:45 but this time next year MS will be lucky if it's only 3:1 in sony's favour.
And I feel people are betting to much on the the PS4's price and hardware advantage.
When the dust settles and the early adopters have brought a PS4. The mass market will see the PS4 as a PS3 but with prettier graphics, where is the differentiator!
The casual mass market isn't going to be getting involved until the second round of price drops.
And Sony will have that VR tech probably cheaper still or at an equivalent price than you get with XBONE. The Camera has navigational voice tech so will probably receive the same ports, and be cheaper still than the price of an XBONE for whatever limited market that' worth.
There is one fundamental flaw in your reasoning: casuals are not early adopters, they don't spend 500 usd/euro on consoles. You talk about Kinect and TV as if they're game changers, they're not. Kinect already exists, people know what it is. The casual will see this in store and think its exactly like their Kinect at home. Yes it has better tracking, thats it. Its not a selling point to the casual and certainly not at 500 bucks. That why I said by this time next year, I agree the PS4 will sell more at launch
Well its more of a selling point then just prettier graphics.
So no, Microsoft will not grab the casual gamers. They either moved on to mobiles or buy cheaper current gen consoles.
Oh right, I disagree.
At launch I expect sales to be 60:40 in PS4s favour, both consoles will sell lots those day 1 hardcore fans, next year its gonna be 70:30 in PS4s favor, the less enthousiast gamer will decide his/her purchase on the price. Not on Kinect and TV.
No he's not. I know quite a few folks who have an Xbox 360 and Kinect. My kids and their kids love it. It's a great fun device. It is in no way shape or form a gimmick.
But it is. Your personal experience is interesting and totally plausible... But it's a gimmick. It will always be.
You know why? It's cool to lure casuals with gimmick, but if they won't "somehow" transform into gamers after that, they're worthless like they were on Wii. No attach rate, no 3rd party. Kinect can't be the primary controller for your games, because it can't be used for the big majority of genres. Direct control will always be superior and more versatile, it's like that.
And so, yes, Kinect is a gimmick, like Wiimote, like PS Move, like PSeye was on PS2. It's the gadget that makes some wow when you see it for the first time. But it's just an entry door for kids and people not attracted by videogames in the first place.
Then, it's a good way to attract this people, but at the end of the day, if it's the only way to control the system (like on Wii), the platform itself become a gimmick and it finally makes the device totally toxic in terms of mainstream perception. "Some kid gadget that was cool like Wonderbook is, not-so cool after all."
So no bank for Kinect. Even more at 500$ full of lol for moms and dads.
Okay... so, to put things in perspective, my personal experience: i don't know any people around me and my friends that have a 360 (but i had one with Tales of Vesperia for very little time)... do i have to jump into conclusions, though?
And I feel people are betting to much on the the PS4's price and hardware advantage.
When the dust settles and the early adopters have brought a PS4. The mass market will see the PS4 as a PS3 but with prettier graphics, where is the differentiator!
If the PS4 was a glorified PS3 I wouldn't be buying it. Don't fool yourself because of your fanboyism. There's a million reasons I jumped ship from MS to Sony this generation. Comparing the PS4 to the PS3 is an instant fail.
But it is. Your personal experience is interesting and totally plausible... But it's a gimmick. It will always be.
You know why? It's cool to lure casuals with gimmick, but if they won't "somehow" transform into gamers after that, they're worthless like they were on Wii. No attach rate, no 3rd party. Kinect can't be the primary controller for your games, because it can't be used for the big majority of genres. Direct control will always be superior and more versatile, it's like that.
And so, yes, Kinect is a gimmick, like Wiimote, like PS Move, like PSeye was on PS2. It's the gadget that makes some wow when you see it for the first time. But it's just an entry door for kids and people not attracted by videogames in the first place.
Then, it's a good way to attract this people, but at the end of the day, if it's the only way to control the system (like on Wii), the platform itself become a gimmick and it finally makes the device totally toxic in terms of mainstream perception. "Some kid gadget that was cool like Wonderbook is, not-so cool after all."
So no bank for Kinect. Even more at 500$ full of lol for moms and dads.
Okay... so, to put things in perspective, my personal experience: i don't know any people around me and my friends that have a 360 (but i had one with Tales of Vesperia for very little time)... do i have to jump into conclusions, though?
theres nothing to do...controller free and voice recognition is something that u need to accept ..coz they will be more and more present like touchscreen was in the last 8 years...
you can see it on tvs mobile phones...consoles...
obv there are good and bad way to utilize it...if u ask me ...a game that work just and only with kinect....(well depend on what type of game ..) still dosnt work...but a mixed one....could be better than a "just a with controller" experience
i can tell u that i passed one year playing sport champions on ps3 with move and pseye with friends and i think was the time where i had more fun with that console ( i mean fun ..you know laugh etc etc...)
The casual mass market isn't going to be getting involved until the second round of price drops.
And Sony will have that VR tech probably cheaper still or at an equivalent price than you get with XBONE. The Camera has navigational voice tech so will probably receive the same ports, and be cheaper still than the price of an XBONE for whatever limited market that' worth.
In the UK it seems from my personal experience some casuals are getting in at the £349 price point, though staying away from that £429 one, So I think we may have a casual uptake quicker than usual on the PS4 for some reason, I'm personally perplexed by it but their is casual interest on the PS4 and casuals wanting it at £349. So I think £299 is going to be the Magic number in the UK and I think they're going to be there at the first price drop.
When I discovered yesterday that I can have a skype video call running whilst playing a game on Xbox One, I saw some value in the Kinect. Will be fun to have a 4 way video call running, whilst drunk and playing BF4. I haven't been convinced of the usefulness of Kinect when it comes to hardcore games yet, but we'll see what they come up with
Shitting on this thead? We have a discussion here right about that topic.
Do you read this thread? The last pages?
He said casuals will buy this 500$ thing for Kinect.
I said "no, they won't", because the "Camera/Motion" gimmick (call it what you want / "feature") isn't that interesting as the Wii was with the motion stuff and a ~250$ console.
Kinect is definitely a gimmick but don't tell me casuals dont love the kinect its definitely a selling point. The ps3 had a much worse start than the xbone had and eventually caught up to the 360. All the people predicting its over already are dumb.
Yes for casuals games designed around it. Gimmick or not gimmick?
But you couldn't tell me that the console itself was designed to be played this way like the Wii was? It's a feature for the people that aren't attracted by games in the first place, it's a gadget designed to be the "wow factor" for them, so it's a gimmick.
It's the "attract casual gamers" part of the console's market positionning.
When I discovered yesterday that I can have a skype video call running whilst playing a game on Xbox One, I saw some value in the Kinect. Will be fun to have a 4 way video call running, whilst drunk and playing BF4. I haven't been convinced of the usefulness of Kinect when it comes to hardcore games yet, but we'll see what they come up with
theres nothing to do...controller free and voice recognition is something that u need to accept ..coz they will be more and more present like touchscreen was in the last 8 years...
you can see it on tvs mobile phones...consoles...
obv there are good and bad way to utilize it...if u ask me ...a game that work just and only with kinect....(well depend on what type of game ..) still dosnt work...but a mixed one....could be better than a "just a with controller" experience
i can tell u that i passed one year playing sport champions on ps3 with move and pseye with friends and i think was the time where i had more fun with that console ( i mean fun ..you know laugh etc etc...)
Your completely wrong about Voice control, the difference between that and a touchscreen are that everybody can use a touch screen, there are many parts of the world that cannot and will not be able to use voice recognition reliably for a very long time. Places in the UK such as Scotland, Yorkshire and Tyne and Wear will not be able to use voice recognition due to their accents, not to mention the fact that their are so many languages around the world compared to a touchscreen which is universal.
In the UK it seems from my personal experience some casuals are getting in at the £349 price point, though staying away from that £429 one, So I think we may have a casual uptake quicker than usual on the PS4 for some reason, I'm personally perplexed by it but their is casual interest on the PS4 and casuals wanting it at £349. So I think £299 is going to be the Magic number in the UK and I think they're going to be there at the first price drop.
Shitting on this thead? We have a discussion here right about that topic.
Do you read this thread? The last pages?
He said casuals will buy this 500$ thing for Kinect.
I said "no, they won't", because the "Camera/Motion" gimmick (call it what you want / "feature") isn't that interesting as the Wii was with the motion stuff and a ~250$ console.
The Wii sold around 100 mio. because it was something new and because of the small price tag.
The Kinect "feature/gimmick" isn't that new and suprising and won't t do that to the XBone.
Casuals are not interested in a $500 console. And many hardcore gamers are not interested in a $500 console with less power than the cheaper competition, too. This strategy will horribly fail.
Casuals are interested in a $500 entertainment device, that plays games, manages their TV, plays Blu-rays, plays Netflix, supports Skype, gets apps on their TV, and tons more. Worked for the iPad, didn't it?
Also, anyone who says Kinect is a gimmick — I suggest you hold your judgment until you actually use it.
Casuals are interested in a $500 entertainment device, that plays games, manages their TV, plays Blu-rays, plays Netflix, supports Skype, gets apps on their TV, and tons more. Worked for the iPad, didn't it?
It costs more than $500 to do all that on the XBox. You can't really compare the Xbox to anything Apple produces, for better or worse the Iphone/IPad were/are cultural phenomenons. Kinect is not.
Your completely wrong about Voice control, the difference between that and a touchscreen are that everybody can use a touch screen, there are many parts of the world that cannot and will not be able to use voice recognition reliably for a very long time. Places in the UK such as Scotland, Yorkshire and Tyne and Wear will not be able to use voice recognition due to their accents, not to mention the fact that their are so many languages around the world compared to a touchscreen which is universal.
you know when i started to use pc with an operationg system (well also the dos was)..they was just in english ....the first windows....os/2 warp and also my first linux..was in english...this didnt stop me to use..it
people will change their accents or maybe with the time ..companies will recognize more accents
Casuals are interested in a $500 entertainment device, that plays games, manages their TV, plays Blu-rays, plays Netflix, supports Skype, gets apps on their TV, and tons more. Worked for the iPad, didn't it?
Also, anyone who says Kinect is a gimmick — I suggest you hold your judgment until you actually use it.
1) No, they aren't. iPad is slightly a different beast and so ignorant to even try to compare them.
2) It's track record is full of poorly implemented gimmicks that do little to advance gaming in any meaningful way. Wait? No, how about Microsoft shows us how great Kinect 2.0 is rather that just telling us it is. How can that NOT worry someone? If it was as great as they say it is they would be showing us. Be honest to yourself.
What? If you're talking about Xbox Live Gold for apps, you're right. I still don't think that's a barrier for most considering what you're actually getting for it.
1) No, they aren't. iPad is slightly a different beast and so ignorant to even try to compare them.
2) It's track record is full of poorly implemented gimmicks that do little to advance gaming in any meaningful way. Wait? No, how about Microsoft shows us how great Kinect 2.0 is rather that just telling us it is. How can that NOT worrying someone? If it was as great as they say it is they would be showing us. Be honest to yourself.
1) No, they aren't. iPad is slightly a different beast and so ignorant to even try to compare them.
2) It's track record is full of poorly implemented gimmicks that do little to advance gaming in any meaningful way. Wait? No, how about Microsoft shows us how great Kinect 2.0 is rather that just telling us it is. How can that NOT worrying someone? If it was as great as they say it is they would be showing us. Be honest to yourself.
Clearly you don't know the casual market then. Xbox is being positioned specifically as a broad consumer device and not to the core gamer. Its more broadened appeal actually favors its success. Also, I don't think it is too different from an iPad. Both offer compelling entertainment consumption experiences in different scenarios.
As it's been explained a lot on this board, any peripheral made by any company is doomed to fail. Pack it in and it's got a way better chance. It'll be adopted more by developers and the experiences will be more compelling. Sony's going to have a big problem on its hands down the line when it's unable to match Xbox One's experiences for its entire audience.
