2012 NBA Feb |OT2| Kobe Bryant is a MAN

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CommonSense said:
LOL Jamison will fuck up your whole team.

Edit: Nothing from Cleveland media. This is probably bogus.
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Jamison will fuck up my whole team? MY whole team, you say?

Trust me, I know what Jamison would do to MY team. I really don't want Jamison on MY team, sir. You get what I'm saying?

And the Cleveland media is ass. Why expect them to see anything coming?
 
ClovingSteam said:
Care to explain it to us then? Instead of telling us to stop talking about something basketball related, add something to the discussion.
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First question is who owns the arena? The city or the Kings?

Then it goes to "how do we finance this facility?" ..sin tax? Deferred loans? etc.

My father was on the board for the Brown's stadium. It's not as easy as you are making it.
 
CommonSense said:
First question is who owns the arena? The city or the Kings?

Then it goes to "how do we finance this facility?" ..sin tax? Deferred loans? etc.
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So in a situation like Sacramento where the owners are simply having to pony up $70 million dollars and the economy obviously hasn't fully recovered AND the franchise doesn't have any shot of competing in the near future with the big market teams, what argument could there be made for the tax payers spending what is sure to be hundreds of millions of dollars to keep the team?

CommonSense said:
First question is who owns the arena? The city or the Kings?

Then it goes to "how do we finance this facility?" ..sin tax? Deferred loans? etc.

My father was on the board for the Brown's stadium. It's not as easy as you are making it.
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Nowhere did I argue its as simple as black and white. That is why I brought the economic conditions into the picture. It's why I argued that during an economic boom I can see an easier justification for the tax payers paying to keep a franchise than during a recession.

Syphon Filter said:
many have been going at it lately here. must be the lack of regular season games the last few days.
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No, it's the NBA-Age thread. Whether its the off season, regular season, all star break, playoffs, or finals, this is how it is. It's why this thread is the favorite for many.
 
ClovingSteam said:
So in a situation like Sacramento where the owners are simply having to pony up $70 million dollars and the economy obviously hasn't fully recovered AND the franchise doesn't have any shot of competing in the near future with the big market teams, what argument could there be made for the tax payers spending what is sure to be hundreds of millions of dollars to keep the team?
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Because if it isn't an arena for the people then who the hell knows how that town would spend its money?

Public stadiums are good for business. always.


If that arena goes away where are those 10-15,000 people going to spend thier money and pay taxes? Out of town? Worse..out of county?

Again this isn't easy to explain nor justify in an internet post.
 
CommonSense said:
First question is who owns the arena? The city or the Kings?

Then it goes to "how do we finance this facility?" ..sin tax? Deferred loans? etc.

My father was on the board for the Brown's stadium. It's not as easy as you are making it.
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I don't get your objection to their discussion. In both cases you listed, who's the ultimate financier? The tax base.
 
CommonSense said:
Because if it isn't an arena for the people then who the hell knows how that town would spend its money?

Public stadiums are good for business. always.


If that arena goes away where are those 10-15,000 people going to spend thier money and pay taxes? Out of town? Worse..out of county?

Again this isn't easy to explain nor justify in an internet post.
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Apparently they're not always good for business

here

They call it an albatross. A mistake. Worst decision ever.

These are some of the ways Minneapolis leaders describe the bailout of Target Center in 1995.

Minneapolis owes roughly $55 million from its purchase of the arena. But the home of the Timberwolves -- which is managed privately -- also has taken annual operating subsidies of about $1.6 million from the city. New figures released last week predict that the city will have to spend more than $32 million over the next decade to keep Target Center up to date.
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I think we need to quash this arena discussion for "basketball reasons."


CommonSense said:
But that's myopic unless i see how the taxes are being collected. On foodstuff? Fuck you. On beer, smokes, and lottery? Go for it.
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So when diversions of the rich are paid for by the vices of the poor? That's good to you?
 
ClovingSteam said:
Apparently they're not always good for business

here
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I'm no expert, not trying to be an expert, just trying to discuss. This article doesn't take the jobs created by the stadium into account. It doesn't list the businesses, hotels, restaurants, etc that get business because there is a big game/concert on weeknights. It doesn't talk about the employees that work for the stadium. There is more to it than just the burden of the debt.
 
CommonSense said:
That is more poor governing than a stadium issue.A much bigger Cleveland Browns stadium takes in less than a million a year from the city.
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You're comparing the NFL and the Browns to a the NBA and Kings/TWolves? Come on man.

Lkr said:
I'm no expert, not trying to be an expert, just trying to discuss. This article doesn't take the jobs created by the stadium into account. It doesn't list the businesses, hotels, restaurants, etc that get business because there is a big game/concert on weeknights. It doesn't talk about the employees that work for the stadium. There is more to it than just the burden of the debt.
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And thats a fair point. But what about arenas that are not surrounded by small businesses? Arenas that because the team stinks is empty half of the time, thereby less potential customers to the surrounding businesses? It's one thing if you are an NFL franchise where the game is sold out every Sunday but if its an NBA franchise where the team stinks, how does that help the surrounding businesses?
 
only takes 9 lbs of pressure to break a nose yo

kobe a puspus if he cant take on 9 lbs of pressure and not get concussed, all im sayin
 
Duki said:
only takes 9 lbs of pressure to break a nose yo

kobe a puspus if he cant take on 9 lbs of pressure and not get concussed, all im sayin
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I'm curious how many pounds of pressure it took to break LeBron's confidence last night. He deferred twice in the closing moments. One of which was by completely removing himself from the last play by inbounding the ball.
 
ph33nix said:
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST GUYS CAN WE ALL STOP TALKING ABOUT IT

KOBE MOVED ON AND SO WILL YOU


With that being said, Freebirds just added Bacon to the available list of ingredients you can put in your burrito.

I'm about to go to town on this.
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How much does adding the bacon cost?
 
CommonSense said:
If that arena goes away where are those 10-15,000 people going to spend thier money and pay taxes? Out of town? Worse..out of county?

Again this isn't easy to explain nor justify in an internet post.
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It's not easy because you're justifying the redirecting of public funds for private development. HTH
 
Byakuya769 said:
Umm, the poor disproportionally drink, smoke, and play the lottery. Those are all of your "good taxes."

You seem to be the one discussing things above your pay grade just based on what "daddy did."
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LOL, one learns by watching one's father. That is all I'm going to say. now if you'lll excuse me i'm going to go have a drink with the poor people.
 
So I've been thinking, what exactly would have been Dwade carried out on if that happened to him instead of Kobe last night? I'm saying a stretcher.
 
StickSoldier said:
So I've been thinking, what exactly would Dwade be carried out on if that happened to him instead of Kobe last night? I'm saying a stretcher.
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No. He'd demand that they open the roof of the arena and airlift him out. While being lifted he'd have a microphone and thank all of the fans below for their prayers. He'd lift his index and middle finger up in a sign of peace to the perpetrator who caused him such harm.
 
StickSoldier said:
So I've been thinking, what exactly would Dwade be carried out on if that happened to him instead of Kobe last night? I'm saying a stretcher.
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Oh for sure and lebron would collapse from being in shock.

Face it, these two are dicks. Anyone remember the dirk "coughing" video during the finals?
 
Many studies I've seen say that public financing for arenas/stadiums is generally a bad idea because most wind up with localities swimming in debt and less of a base to pay for it. The places where it does work are where the owners are willing to pay for the stadiums anyway since they can make money.

The 1990s and 2000s saw lots of cities build stadiums and arenas they couldn't afford then and still are failing to pay off. A lot of them were built without major tenants planned but for the hope they could attract them and it would lead to all this economic boom.

NY Times article on the debt left over: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.html?_r=1&src=twt&twt=nytimes&pagewanted=all
It’s the gift that keeps on taking. The old Giants Stadium, demolished to make way for New Meadowlands Stadium, still carries about $110 million in debt, or nearly $13 for every New Jersey resident, even though it is now a parking lot.

...

New Jerseyans are hardly alone in paying for stadiums that no longer exist. Residents of Seattle’s King County owe more than $80 million for the Kingdome, which was razed in 2000. The story has been similar in Indianapolis and Philadelphia. In Houston, Kansas City, Mo., Memphis and Pittsburgh, residents are paying for stadiums and arenas that were abandoned by the teams they were built for.

But befitting its name, Giants Stadium is the granddaddy of phantom facilities. Taxpayers in New Jersey, already under pressure from declining local government revenues, this year will pay $35.8 million in principal and interest on the $266 million in remaining bonds for the Meadowlands Sports Complex, which opened in 1976 and includes the Izod Center and a horse racing track. Those bonds will not be paid until 2025.

...

Rather than confront teams, they have often buckled when owners — usually threatening to move — have demanded that the public pay for new suites, parking or arenas and stadiums.

With state and local budgets stretched by the recession, politicians are only now starting to look askance at privately held teams trying to tap the public till.

“The Meadowlands wasn’t a bad idea, but rather than pay it off, they let it ride,” said Steven Malanga, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, who has written about the perils of publicly financed stadiums. “Politicians essentially turned a good thing into a money loser for taxpayers at exactly the wrong time.”
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Here's even a study that suggests major league franchises actually cost more than they produce: http://www.umbc.edu/economics/wpapers/wp_03_103.pdf
 
Branduil said:
Memphis and Houston too. You could end up with every team in the southwest making the playoffs.
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True. But Dallas and SA are the two organizations that have the best shot of long-term competitiveness, IMO.

It would basically be as tough as when the Hornets had their best year in NOLA with Paul, Chandler, and West. It was stacked that year, too.
 
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