ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Ibaka is a 6-8m a year player.
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2012 NBA Playoffs |OT2| OKC VS LA: Black on Black Crime
- Thread starter reilo
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Ibaka is a 6-8m a year player.
The Frankman
Banned
Get rid of Chuckbrook, obviously. Westbrook + random pieces and a #1 rounder.
Harden
SG
Durant
Ibaka
Perkins
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Hes going to want the max and some teamwill give it to him.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Harden over Ibaka easiy. Name the top ten Sgs, now name the top ten PFs.
The Frankman
Banned
Is it me or is it hard to find a trade partner who needs a SG and can give the Thunder what they want if OKC wanted to trade Westbrook?
The Heat come to mind but the Heat would want Ibaka, and that ain't happening.
Now, if said team still viewed Westbrook as a PG (LOL) that's where the opportunities open up.
The Heat come to mind but the Heat would want Ibaka, and that ain't happening.
Now, if said team still viewed Westbrook as a PG (LOL) that's where the opportunities open up.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
That doesn't matter as much as Harden being much better than Ibaka at helping teams win basketball games regardless of positional scarcity.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
The Thunder already gave YNB the max so how would trading himfree up space to sign both Ibaka and Harden to the max? Thunder would have to get back dollar for dollar in a YNB trade, or am I mistake ?
The asian dude that was hot for about 2 weeks
JR
Melo
Ibaka
Chandler
6th man: Scarhand
What is this nonsense about Tim Duncan / Kobe rivalry? SA fans, just sit down.
He's the greatest power forward of all time, but he's 2-5 against Kobe in the playoffs, and two of his chips came when Kobe was relegated with a horrible team, another chip came in the lockout season with KURT RAMBIS as head coach, and the last chip came when the Lakers were out of gas after 3 straight finals appearances.
The spurs win chips, when they get to avoid having to play a championship caliber Kobe team, or when they get the Lakers at one of their weak points. The Lakers eliminated the Spurs every single time they've made the finals from 2000-2008...and since then The Spurs haven't been around long enough to face the Lakers...so this isn't even a discussion
He's the greatest power forward of all time, but he's 2-5 against Kobe in the playoffs, and two of his chips came when Kobe was relegated with a horrible team, another chip came in the lockout season with KURT RAMBIS as head coach, and the last chip came when the Lakers were out of gas after 3 straight finals appearances.
The spurs win chips, when they get to avoid having to play a championship caliber Kobe team, or when they get the Lakers at one of their weak points. The Lakers eliminated the Spurs every single time they've made the finals from 2000-2008...and since then The Spurs haven't been around long enough to face the Lakers...so this isn't even a discussion
You mean 2-3 against Kobe and Shaq and 0-1 against Kobe?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
1 on 1 = Kobe
In terms of being the greater player I have to take Timmy if the Spurs win this year.
It pains me to say it but Tim would be the greater player.
The Frankman
Banned
Good point, my bad. Although you could always find guys with smaller deals that added up to Westbrook's number at the very least to give them some flexibility.
Sure...but Kobe did tear apart the Spurs every year they played...and the last 4 years the Spurs haven't advanced far enough to face Kobe...thats on Timmy just like it was on Lebron that the Kobe/Lebron thing never happened.
Name the 5 years the Spurs with Duncan lost to the Lakers... cause you got your shit wrong.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
The more I think about the different players, their different games, etc. the more I realize how difficult it is to categorize one as BETTER than another.
Shaq= Most dominating player who I would take in a 5 year span
Tim Duncan=Greatest to build around for a long period of time
Kobe=Best one on one player and scorer
My fault, I thought the Spurs got out of the first round in 2000...looks like they didn't.
Lose in the first round after you win a chip?...Timmy GOAT!
Timmy tore his meniscus like a week or two before the playoffs and didn't play in the post-season that year.
smfh
You're looking real uninformed right now.
Don't even show up in the playoffs to help your team defend? Timmy Goat..
just kidding I don't do the injuries-shit-talking bit. That sucks, but the dude hasn't been able to defend a single one of his chips even when healthy...i doubt 2000 would have been different.
Timmy loses in every head to head category with Kobe, I like Timmy a lot, and he's great, and the GOAT PF and better than Shaq in the all time pantheon. And if Timmy wins this year...we can have a debate.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Yep. Timmy was also the centerpiece of all of their championships. Regardless of the whys and reasons, Kobe wasn't. That will always be one of his asterisks.
What the...That goes to Russell...and Hakeem is probably better too...
Kobe is a 13 time all Defensive Selection. Timmy has a slight defensive edge but there's a reason why everyone keeps voting Kobe on the all defensive selection, when he's engaged, he's one of the best perimeter defenders.
Also, Bigs always get more credit for their defense because Rebounds / Blocks are usually what defense is measured by, they're also the last line of defense...Bigs have more defensive responsibilities than perimeter players just like perimeter players have more playmaking responsibilities than bigs.
I think he's the most talented player in the game at both ends of the floor
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Kobe had a couple of seasons when he was fantastic defensively but for his career? Come on mang. It's not even a comparison.
Also, talent doesn't equal greatness.
Like I said, Timmy is a better defender than Kobe. But Kobe is an all world perimeter defender himself, and EVERYONE in the NBA talks about it.
The real lmao, is that you forgot Russell and Hakeem in your "Best Big Defender All Time" category. Russell is far and away first, he defended and slowed down Wilt, and Hakeem defended and slowed down everyone he played against including Robinson, Ewing and Shaq
BTW, just a question, do you think Timmy is better than Bird or Magic? Bird or Magic weren't nearly the defenders Kobe or Timmy was, and Bird has less chips than Timmy, and less finals MVP's too. The issue is that for some reason, Kobe's accomplishments are discredited...where others aren't
5 chips? Lol Shaq
12 all nba defense selections? lulz
Did you watch Jordan in the 90's? He would get all nba defense selections but would conserve most of his energy for offense. That's what great perimeter scorers do, their role isn't to play defense for 48 minutes in the same way that Artest or Bowen are supposed to. But when engaged, Jordan and Kobe are as good as anyone else, and that's why everyone considers them to be great perimeter defenders.
Kobe's slipped up the past few years, and his steal numbers have gone down because of his mangled right hand, but he was a legitimate great defender for a decade.
Read my sentence again and pay close attention to the word that's in italics.
And saying Duncan has a "slight" edge over Kobe defensively... oh lord.
Except its not arguable, just as "Kobe is arguably the best player ever" isn't arguable either.
Also, if you're willing to use "Defense" against Kobe, who is one of the best defenders of his generation, and the best defensive superstar perimeter player in his decade as well...than use the same argument and tell me you think Timmy is better than Magic and Bird, who played little to no defense...and for that matter Kobe is too. Otherwise, you're not being consistent, and just pointing to something that's a strength of BOTH players, kinda a moot and inconsistent argument.
When's the last time Timmy was the best big man defender in the league? It's been Dwight for a number of years right? At some point last decade it was Ben Wallace for a number of more years too. Mutumbo and Mourning were in the mix too...let's not act like Timmy was this generations Bill Russell. He was great, but he was in the mix for the best big man defender for most of his career, some years he was the best, and some years he wasn't. Same applies to Kobe.
Like I said, Timmy is a better defender, but defense is far and away one of Kobe's strengths. He's one of the best defending perimeter superstars of all time, using "defense" against Kobe is kinda strange is my point...it's one of his strengths.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
MJ was consistently a fantastic defender, even as he aged. Kobe doesn't just take a play or two off, he takes a significant amount of time off. I'm not complaining, he's older. But lets not argue that the difference between Timmy and Kobe defensively are minute.
Duncan has a big edge of Kobe defensively. So does Shaq. Kobe wasn't even the best perimeter defender on Shaq's Lakers.
Jordan and Pippen are 2 of the best perimeter defenders to ever play and Duncan has a big edge on them in regards to defense. And its because of the role Duncan plays as a defender.
Jordan and Pippen are 2 of the best perimeter defenders to ever play and Duncan has a big edge on them in regards to defense. And its because of the role Duncan plays as a defender.
marathonfool
Member
Kobe's been riding off his defensive rep for at least 5 seasons now. He was a horrible defender his first 5 seasons as well.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Because if he hadn't torn his meniscus he'd have succesfully defended his title like he awlays has!
ZERO title defenses.
Michael Jordan once said that you're not a real champion unless you defend your title.
Timmy with zero "rea" real championships according to Mr. NBA himself.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I'm not holding that against Timmy. Before Magic and the Lakers did it in 87-88 the last team that went back to back were the Russell led Celtics.
It wasn't bad..Back to back NCAA chips. Then a gold medal then 9 rings in a row to start. Then a couple more for shits and giggles. Not too shabby.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
You'll have to forgive Diehard. The best Stockton Malone ever did was leeching off a gold medal from guys like Magic, Bird, MJ, and Barkley.
And it wasn't 9, technically. Russell was injured the second season during the finals I believe.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Wasn't trololin.
I'll continue to listen to the opinion of actual NBA Players and coaches on Kobe's defensive credentials. He does take plays off, but I've rewatched many Jordan games, he did the same thing, particularly in his last 3 peat days.
Kobe was on the all nba defensive first team in 2000...part of the reason they were a better team that year was because of Kobe's growth as an elite level perimeter defender.
Again, the dude has over 10 all NBA defensive selections and 9 first team selections and we're debating his defense?
Yes Timmy was a better defender, but between KG, Ben Wallace, and Dwight, he hasn't been the clear best defender in the league year in and year out either.
Kobe was on the all nba defensive first team in 2000...part of the reason they were a better team that year was because of Kobe's growth as an elite level perimeter defender.
Again, the dude has over 10 all NBA defensive selections and 9 first team selections and we're debating his defense?
Yes Timmy was a better defender, but between KG, Ben Wallace, and Dwight, he hasn't been the clear best defender in the league year in and year out either.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Come on man, a few of those all defensive teams for Kobe weren't deserving. He was a very skilled defender in his younger days but he hasn't deserved the defensive team in quite a bit.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Back to back citizenship awards for a team sooo many people hate. Just awesome.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Yo Vag, hush up.
My bad. Won one. Then slacked and made up for it with like 8 in a row. Does he get extra rings for being player coach on some of them lol.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Vag has the same problem ImperialConquest has: the shit he says is so absurd, off-base, and factually incorrect that it doesn't even induce an emotional reaction. Everyone and their mother knows hes wrong, so whats the point in responding.
yep they Leeched off of Johnson... who didn't even play every game, Jordan.. who had by far the lowest shooting percentage, and Bird.. who was 9th in scoring.
trollin bro
good to know you think a Celtic had the best career though, really.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Vag, I love you, but you gotta stop, man...
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