MetalFearSolid
Banned
Rondo on Mavs nearly confirmed wow. Great move for them. It feels like Celtics could have gotten more for Rondo last year, when they had the chance to trade him. Oh well.
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2014 NBA |OT| Let's just wait it out. Be NKY/LAL fans and lose our games together.
- Thread starter UnObtainium17
- Start date
Green's value is the highest it will ever be. They are tanking anyway. Once Young gets healthy. Fuck it. Throw him in the fire too.
Amory
Member
If Ainge wanted to go full on tank mode (and this deal means he clearly does), then he should've done it a year ago when Rondo still had a year remaining on his contract and the draft prospects were much better. I know Rondo was coming off of an injury, but he almost certainly could've gotten more back then.
I don't understand this deal at all. It doesn't accelerate the rebuild.
I don't understand this deal at all. It doesn't accelerate the rebuild.
TheSadRanger
Banned
LyleLanley
Banned
As long as Cuban offers him the max I don't see why he'd leave.
You don't why they moved a player that was going to walk for nothing in the summer?
Better than Ainge giving him Max.
I don't think ANYONE will be giving up a first for Green.
Guess it really doesn't matter with him. I keep forgetting his contract is running out sooner than I believed. He is a nice piece to a team who needs a sixth man.
show me a top team in the league that has a core built from FA/trades and not the draft
Houston
Amory
Member
As I said, if we were going to trade Rondo we should've done it sooner. At this point, for what we ended up getting for him, we should've waited until the deadline to see if someone got desperate enough to overpay. It's hard to imagine we'd get less than we got by waiting a couple months.
Easily Houston
Gully State
Member
Small market team yes. Big market team, no....
If they don't move him worst case scenario is he picks up his own option for next year at 9.5 next year.
The players they got can't be used in another trade if that happens.
As mentioned, Houston.
The draft IS the way to do it. Having picks that aren't the number one, and in a draft where there is no top player largely leaves you drafting players that are just as likely to find themselves in the D-League.
LyleLanley
Banned
As Chad Ford pointed out on twitter, if the season ended today the C's would have the 10th, 22nd (Mavs) and 23rd (Clippers) picks in the draft.
Supposedly that's what Ainge is asking from teams who are interested in Green.
Supposedly that's what Ainge is asking from teams who are interested in Green.
I'm not too worried about him picking that up. This team needs to make some crazy moves to be actually competitive.
I think Jeff Green can be an entertaining player, you're not going to get much for him. Sounds like a guy you just pay and he fades off.
Well Green like Rondo and Sully and KO can be like a 3rd option on a team and that's probably a stretch other than playoff level Rondo.
Miami and Boston in the past.
Both of those teams had a piece, which is my point. Celtics don't have that piece, and there doesn't appear to be one on the docket anytime soon.
I agree, we need that piece. But with all of the opportunities we will have over the next few years I'm confident that we will have a lot of great complements to that piece when we find him.
He didn't make them any better this year anyway. Their putrid 4th quarters this year had a lot to do with him and his ineptness at putting the ball in the hoop or trying to draw fouls because he's scared to shoot a FT's.
LyleLanley
Banned
To be fair I've had more fun watching the C's this year when Rondo wasn't playing. If Smart can stay healthy he could be a ton of fun.
Seriously, Rondo has made this team a drag to watch. He doesn't push the ball up the floor like the other guys, he likes to let plays develop. While that was great with sharpshooting veterans like Paul and Ray, it doesn't work with these young guys.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
ramonashelburne said:
Welp I mean I have been critical of the Lakers organization when it comes to drafting so, looks like they had a chance just didn't make the most of it.
Amory
Member
I'm not actually all that upset that Rondo is gone. I just think Danny sold very low when you consider how long he's held onto the guy.
It's fine to trade Rondo, I don't think we could've really rebuilt around him anyway, but IMO the deal is blah.
The plan was Rondo/Love which the Cavs fucked over whether you think that was a good idea or not. Now it's back to full tank mode.
LyleLanley
Banned
That's why he was never going to stay with the C's. Ainge wasn't going to pay him max money so that he could be in his mid 30's when they're ready to contend again.
Gully State
Member
I could've sworn that I've heard better trade deals over the years for Rondo.
LyleLanley
Banned
Ainge wasn't going to trade him while Pierce and KG were still there and he wasn't going to trade him while he was injured or soon after that so there wasn't really a great opportunity to trade him until now.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Umm, the Cavs? Unless you think that LeBron James and Kevin Love aren't the core of that team.
So that Heat team I hated didn't exist?
Lol lebron was drafted by the cavs let's not act like he's the same case as love
Wade was the core that they built around
friskykillface
Banned
Rondo for Rubio
boom
boom
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Knicks vs. Bulls, no Melo, no Rose. Knicks gonna lose, question is by how much..
LyleLanley
Banned
"Boston will release center Vitor Faverani, league source tells Yahoo Sports. Boston needed to open a roster spot for trade." - Woj
Rondo I could handle but this is too much.
Rondo I could handle but this is too much.
Faverani hasn't even played this year. He is a D-League Drunk.
friskykillface
Banned
JinjoUnchained
Member
Your point, to the extent that you presented it, was that the cores of modern great teams are built through the draft. Then you change the definition of "core" to suit your argument. Typically the term "core" refers to the 2-3 key players on a team that are not going to be traded and they're called the "core" because the rest of the roster is built to play off of them.
So the core of the Cavs is LeBron, Love, and Kyrie. Everyone else just fits around them. That's one free agent, one player acquired through trade (in exchange for drafted players!), and one drafted player. LeBron does not count as a drafted player to the Cavs because he left them and signed back with them years later as a free agent, the same way you wouldn't consider Jason Kidd a drafted player for the 2011 Mavs. So it's a hybrid team, but it's core definitely was not built through the draft. Had they kept Wiggins and Bennet instead of acquiring Love, then you could more plausibly say that their core was built through the draft.
Same with the 2010-2013 Heat. The core of that team was LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. Two free agents and one drafted player. Definitely not a core build around the draft.
Oh, and teams with cores built through the draft almost never win titles. Tim Duncan is the only #1 draft pick in the modern lottery era to win a title with the team that drafted him, and that was a big fluke as the Spurs only got the #1 pick that year due to David Robinson's injury. They were already a great team and then threw in the #1 draft pick on top of that. So I don't see any evidence that building a core through the draft wins titles. If the Thunder win with Durant/Westbrook, then yeah, but that hasn't happened yet.
I feel like you're missing the context of my post, which is that as the Celtics are built right now, draft picks are more valuable to the team than a guy like Rondo is. I would rather have the potential of future picks than I would have current talent (said talent couldnt be enough to make this team a contender realistically).
Most of the top teams in the league (Spurs, Warriors, Raptors, Clippers, Blazers, Mavs) feature multiple top home grown draft picks, and I think until the Celtics have that kind of talent, they should keep making moves for the future.
Most of the top teams in the league (Spurs, Warriors, Raptors, Clippers, Blazers, Mavs) feature multiple top home grown draft picks, and I think until the Celtics have that kind of talent, they should keep making moves for the future.
Danny could have got more for him prior to the ACL, but that was before they realized they weren't going to rebuild quickly enough for it to make sense to keep him. Even then I never got the impression that Ainge had a better offer laying on his desk at any point just ready for him to sign off on. It was all just rumors and Ainge shopping him around.
What they got is about as good as they could have expected to get for a fringe all star caliber player with no confidence in his shot coming off a major knee injury in the last year of his deal. The market for a player like that is very limited, basically limited to teams that believe he could put them over the hump to winning a championship in the near future, and basically all the other contending teams aside from the Mavs have the PG spot locked up or don't have the shooting to be able to offset Rondo's struggles(ie. Houston). Mavs were really the only realistic buyer(aside from maybe a couple teams that would be willing to throw a couple picks to the Celtics to rent him for the year to see how he fits with their young talent (maybe teams like Sacto or NO, though the latter would have been tricky with Jrue there).
He will play much better on the Mavs, where the defense won't be focused on him and the team doesn't need him to score, but that won't mean the Celtics got robbed. It just means the Mavs are a better fit for his skillset than the Celtics are.
You never get fair market value on trades in the NBA if you are trading away the best player in the deal, but it is better to get something in return instead of having him walk for nothing in free agency.
The Mavs are basically the best team for a player like Rondo. A team full of efficient finishers and all Rondo has to do is get them the ball.
JinjoUnchained
Member
I hear ya, it might be the Celtics best move right now. I'm providing the counterargument that building your whole core or most of your core through the draft almost never leads to a championship and rarely leads to sustained success. A lot of the shitty teams in the league just stay in the lottery ghetto forever because their management is the problem and by the time that young core matures, they all want out. See, for example, the Timberwolves, the Jazz, the Pistons, and the Kings. They move from one rebuilding plan to another. You don't want to be in that group.
A better path to contention, if possible, is to stockpile assets and good contracts as leverage for acquiring more mature player that can help win championships. Like the Celtics did with KG and Ray Allen. Or to fleece a bad GM in the middle of a fire sale like the Lakers did to get Pau Gasol. Or to form a super team cartel like Heat in 10-13 and what the Cavs are trying to do now. That kind of strategy better correlates with success in the NBA.
LyleLanley
Banned
All of these scenarios had a superstar on the team already, I'm not sure Rondo was going to be that guy and if he isn't the C's pretty much had no other choice than to try their luck in the lottery until they find someone like that.