36 minutes of The Order 1886 gameplay (offscreen)

I dont get it, what is those stealth tings people are talking about? I mean, it looks ok in the 36 min vid> but yeah he doesnt get cought. Is it basically > If you're seen than its game over? is that why its called poor?
 
Americanmushroom said:
I dont get it, what is those stealth tings people are talking about? I mean, it looks ok in the 36 min vid> but yeah he doesnt get cought. Is it basically > If you're seen than its game over? is that why its called poor?
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If you don't press the prompted button in time then you are killed and have to repeat that stealth sequence until you get it right. You don't start the whole mission over or anything that terrible.
 
I'm going to love this.

I have a SUPER low bar for TPS shooters (played and loved Army of Two), so I can deal with some pretty pedestrian & repetitive gameplay...especially if it looks this freaking good.

Which is does. I mean seriously, look at it.
 
Mifune said:
If you don't press the prompted button in time then you are killed and have to repeat that stealth sequence until you get it right. You don't start the whole mission over or anything that terrible.
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I think you're talking about the section, in the cabin, where has a gun pointed at him and if you don't press it on time you get shot in the face.

Whereas I've heard during the stealth section supposedly if you get spotted they call the guards and it's an end game screen.
 
THISGONBGUD.gif


Seriously, the animations are just breathtaking, esspecially in the new HD video.

MUST HAVE!
 
grandwizard said:
Perfect summation of my feelings on the demo as well. Glad to see someone in the mainstream press not fooled by the pretty graphics wrapped around stale gameplay that does absolutely nothing new or interesting. This game really does feel like RAD have spent all their time creating the universe and cinematic elements and are just forced to shove in the bare necessity of gameplay for it to be sold as a video game.
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Why does this game need to do anything "new and interesting"? Have RAD ever claimed it would move the TPS genre forward in a meaningful way? Does it need to do that before it meets your approval? Should every game strive to be new and interesting, or are you only holding The Order up to this intangible and unrealistic requirement? Seems to me that you dislike the game because of what it's not, rather than what it is.
 
mercenar1e said:
Does the video not have QTE's?
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Is this sarcasm, or are you one of those ridiculously obtuse haters for this game? The comment completely devolves the gameplay to nothing but QTEs which it clearly isnt. Let me ask you. Did the video have nothing but QTEs? A simple yes or no will suffice.
 
grandwizard said:
Perfect summation of my feelings on the demo as well. Glad to see someone in the mainstream press not fooled by the pretty graphics wrapped around stale gameplay that does absolutely nothing new or interesting. This game really does feel like RAD have spent all their time creating the universe and cinematic elements and are just forced to shove in the bare necessity of gameplay for it to be sold as a video game.
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It's a bit premature and condescending to say people are being "fooled" when they say they enjoyed what they played. The general mainstream press was lukewarm or negative on the game when they only had that hilariously short gameplay segment to play. It's only just turned around considerably at PSX after they got their hands on a 30-40 minute demo to get a feel for it. When a lot of the recent impressions are positive, why suddenly take that as some kind of brainwashing?

I mean, if you find third person shooters stale and uninteresting, it's definitely not for you. Third person shooters by themselves is an interesting gameplay genre to me -- it all comes down to execution. Can they make it feel fun and satisfying? I don't need it to be remixed to be fun for me because I already enjoy the basic mechanics behind third person shooters. Getting TPS games to have solid basics and good weapons is no easy feat and it seems like you just take that for granted as there aren't that many games in the genre that nail the core of it.

mercenar1e said:
Does the video not have QTE's?
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You're a piece of work lol
 
Acquiescence said:
It does, but it doesn't consist solely of them like some would lead us to believe.
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Yeah but some are wondering just how many it has in total from start to finish. The stealth segment involving one guy.. why even bother? On the positive side the gameplay after 17:00+ looks really good. I can't say the same about everything before that.
 
Y2Kev said:
There is a pretty big difference between this criticism and the earlier one. Instadeath fail states, QTEs, and "slow repelling" might not be compelling to everyone (it's not, as you put it, uninteresting "any way you slice it"), but there is a fundamental difference between taking issue with a game's design for being bad and taking issue with a game's design for being unoriginal, unimaginative, or uninventive. There's nothing inherently wrong with the last three. Some of the biggest and most popular games are all of those three.

I certainly can understand the perspective of people who prioritize innovation, inventiveness, or originality over iteration and polish, but I do not always agree and I find myself very annoyed when certain posters (like you in your post) assume that just because something is NOT those things that everyone should automatically understand a) why that's bad and b) why anyone should care. There's nothing wrong with tried and true. Lots of people like tried and true. I like tried and true. I also like inventive and original. I find room for both in my gaming diet.

It's also pretty annoying to see people say things like painfully linear or restrictively linear. I LIKE linear and you haven't done your diligence in showing me why I shouldn't like it. So I don't respect comments like that.

Penalizing a linear scripted shooter for being scripted, a shooter, and linear is silly. It doesn't get to any fundamental truth about a product, it doesn't convey the experience of playing the game, it doesn't inform the reader beyond vague generalities about what something denotatively IS, and it certainly doesn't read as more than "I don't like this thing so you will deal."

Again, big difference between the first post and the second post you made. And it's not just you. You just happened to be one of the only people worth responding to.
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bravo sir, bravo. One of the best posts I've seen in ages. This "linear" is bad nonsense even the press is permeating is ridiculous.... Openworld is not the be all end all. In fact they are quickly becoming overdone, are filled with filler, and lack narrative focus.
 
Acquiescence said:
It does, but it doesn't consist solely of them like some would lead us to believe.
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Well I guess it's obvious that people are getting a bit defensive about criticism for this game. Look, it's probably the best looking game I've ever seen and I'm sure it will be decently fun. I don't have the time to get into it and I wouldn't want to derail this thread but this game is not what I am personally looking for in "next gen" gaming experiences. Gaming as a medium has such unbelievable potential but I see too much time invested in trying to ape other forms of entertainment instead of utilizing gaming's own unique factors to create something new.
 
brett2 said:
Well I guess it's obvious that people are getting a bit defensive about criticism for this game. Look, it's probably the best looking game I've ever seen and I'm sure it will be decently fun. I don't have the time to get into it and I wouldn't want to derail this thread but this game is not what I am personally looking for in "next gen" gaming experiences. Gaming as a medium has such unbelievable potential but I see too much time invested in trying to ape other forms of entertainment instead of utilizing gaming's own unique factors to create something new.
Click to expand...

Except that there are plenty games that more focused on mechanics already, and there will always be.

This is what annoys me. Just because there are games that are heavily narrative, and heavily cinematic, doesn't mean that the industry is suddenly nothing but these. Instead, if anything, these heavily narrative games are actually outliers, although very expensive and high production outliers.

Just because a small set of games go super heavy on cinematics and production quality, doesn't suddenly erase tetris from existence.

Maybe you could go out and find those mechanics oriented games and buy them, instead of constantly complaining about narrative heavy games. In fact, I'd have to say we're at a time where mechanics based games vastly outnumber these AAA cinematic games by a vast majority. Just look around on these forums for all the posts about indie developers.
 
Y2Kev said:
There is a pretty big difference between this criticism and the earlier one. Instadeath fail states, QTEs, and "slow repelling" might not be compelling to everyone (it's not, as you put it, uninteresting "any way you slice it"), but there is a fundamental difference between taking issue with a game's design for being bad and taking issue with a game's design for being unoriginal, unimaginative, or uninventive. There's nothing inherently wrong with the last three. Some of the biggest and most popular games are all of those three.

I certainly can understand the perspective of people who prioritize innovation, inventiveness, or originality over iteration and polish, but I do not always agree and I find myself very annoyed when certain posters (like you in your post) assume that just because something is NOT those things that everyone should automatically understand a) why that's bad and b) why anyone should care. There's nothing wrong with tried and true. Lots of people like tried and true. I like tried and true. I also like inventive and original. I find room for both in my gaming diet.

It's also pretty annoying to see people say things like painfully linear or restrictively linear. I LIKE linear and you haven't done your diligence in showing me why I shouldn't like it. So I don't respect comments like that.

Penalizing a linear scripted shooter for being scripted, a shooter, and linear is silly. It doesn't get to any fundamental truth about a product, it doesn't convey the experience of playing the game, it doesn't inform the reader beyond vague generalities about what something denotatively IS, and it certainly doesn't read as more than "I don't like this thing so you will deal."

Again, big difference between the first post and the second post you made. And it's not just you. You just happened to be one of the only people worth responding to.
Click to expand...

HCNwS.gif
 
Felsparrow said:
Except that there are plenty games that more focused on mechanics already, and there will always be.

This is what annoys me. Just because there are games that are heavily narrative, and heavily cinematic, doesn't mean that the industry is suddenly nothing but these. Instead, if anything, these heavily narrative games are actually outliers, although very expensive and high production outliers.

Just because a small set of games go super heavy on cinematics and production quality, doesn't suddenly erase tetris from existence.

Maybe you could go out and find those mechanics oriented games and buy them, instead of constantly complaining about narrative heavy games. In fact, I'd have to say we're at a time where mechanics based games vastly outnumber these AAA cinematic games by a vast majority. Just look around on these forums for all the posts about indie developers.
Click to expand...

You massed together everyone you've argued with on message boards into some kind of frankenstein straw man. How do you know what I "constantly" do? Did you think that maybe the gameplay experiences I have in mind can't be done by indie developers?
 
brett2 said:
Well I guess it's obvious that people are getting a bit defensive about criticism for this game. Look, it's probably the best looking game I've ever seen and I'm sure it will be decently fun. I don't have the time to get into it and I wouldn't want to derail this thread but this game is not what I am personally looking for in "next gen" gaming experiences. Gaming as a medium has such unbelievable potential but I see too much time invested in trying to ape other forms of entertainment instead of utilizing gaming's own unique factors to create something new.
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in my country it is called trolling, criticism is very different from some of the posters here have being doing

calling 800pr is a criticism?
give me a break
 
I just really don't understand what people expect out of video games anymore.

This is exactly the type of game that I want to play when I just want to chill out and play a linear singleplayer shooter.

I don't go to the movie theater expecting every movie I watch to be my favorite movie, and the same goes for reading a new book.

The Order is a third person shooter that seems to have great weapons, incredible graphics, an orchestra soundtrack, and bad guys to kill. If that sounds like a bad time to you, you're wasting your time here arguing about it.
 
Triggerhappytel said:
Why does this game need to do anything "new and interesting"? Have RAD ever claimed it would move the TPS genre forward in a meaningful way? Does it need to do that before it meets your approval? Should every game strive to be new and interesting, or are you only holding The Order up to this intangible and unrealistic requirement? Seems to me that you dislike the game because of what it's not, rather than what it is.
Click to expand...

I would be more than happy with a solid TPS with gorgeous graphics and some nice music.
 
brett2 said:
Well I guess it's obvious that people are getting a bit defensive about criticism for this game. Look, it's probably the best looking game I've ever seen and I'm sure it will be decently fun. I don't have the time to get into it and I wouldn't want to derail this thread but this game is not what I am personally looking for in "next gen" gaming experiences. Gaming as a medium has such unbelievable potential but I see too much time invested in trying to ape other forms of entertainment instead of utilizing gaming's own unique factors to create something new.
Click to expand...
The irony of this post is that the only one limiting the medium is people like you who say games like this can't exist. Whether you like the genre or not, gaming has so much potential because of the vast amount of different experiences that you can find at any given time, from Skyrim to The Order. Whether The Order is good or not is yet to be seen but its not instantly disqualified because its described as a "linear cinematic shooter". That's not a negative, that's a genre.
 
Felsparrow said:
Except that there are plenty games that more focused on mechanics already, and there will always be.

This is what annoys me. Just because there are games that are heavily narrative, and heavily cinematic, doesn't mean that the industry is suddenly nothing but these. Instead, if anything, these heavily narrative games are actually outliers, although very expensive and high production outliers.

Just because a small set of games go super heavy on cinematics and production quality, doesn't suddenly erase tetris from existence.

Maybe you could go out and find those mechanics oriented games and buy them, instead of constantly complaining about narrative heavy games. In fact, I'd have to say we're at a time where mechanics based games vastly outnumber these AAA cinematic games by a vast majority. Just look around on these forums for all the posts about indie developers.
Click to expand...

I don't exactly disagree, and surprisingly enough I certainly prefer to just play the kinds of games I like than bitch about games I know I won't, but then you get big budget productions with a lot of potential like this game. As you say, there are likely more indies than AAA games focused on mechanics than presentation nowadays, but therein lies the issue. It's lamentable (even if lamenting is arguably both useless and annoying) that we don't have more AAA games with great concepts that live up to their full potential.

We're not comparing unlike genres or confusing apples and oranges, this is a matter of comparing a production's goals with how well those goals could have been realized. For instance, by judging two different games in the same genre based on "gameplay" and "narrative", you're just utilizing colloquially co-opted semantics to describe a false dichotomy created by an artificial schism where none should objectively exist; cutscenes 20 years ago were a technical treat, and often the best option possible for communicating something with the hardware. Decades of repetition has bred acceptance and complacency in spite of the technical ability for playable portions of games to now blend more seamlessly with cutscenes. The end result is enabling developers to engage in impotent, interactively minimalist showcases rather than offering the imagination and effort necessary to put the player in complete control of these sequences, and it's allowed them to justify these cop outs as offering a "cinematic experience."

Saying a game offers a "cinematic experience" is beside the point. That doesn't preclude offering satisfying mechanics and systems, and doesn't excuse the lack of them.

There are only so many objective reasons beyond resources, imagination, leadership, effort, and talent that prevent a game from having both a great story and great mechanics & systems, and in truth all elements present in a game combine to create how a game feels to play and the narrative it communicates.

I would agree there's a lot of No True Scotsman fallacies flying around in this thread and that I've been guilty of the same in the past, but I think there's more to the opposing viewpoint than just snobbishness or stubbornness. It's a differing perspective on fundamentals, not just a reluctance to accept that people have different tastes.
 
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