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[Acosta]

To make this thread more informatiive and useful, is there a list of the launch games of the systems (at least from Dreamcast)? Jarrod?

I think is a valid thread (a little unrailed). I don´t see any possible Azurik on Xbox 360 launch lineup if you want the truth. But for a best launch ever, it would need at least a mega fantastic game like Halo or Mario 64, and I don´t think that´ll happen (I would like to be wrong, I like mega fantastic titles)...

Well, there is Oblivion as candidate for game of launchment, but I count it as a PC game

 

[borghe]

You mean except for PGR3? Oblivion? NBA 2K6?

I don't think anyone except for a segment of XBox owners will call PGR3 best of its class. Oblivion is WAY too niche to be AAA (check out Morrowind sales). NBA2K6 is cross platform and only seeing technical upgrades on the X360.

The Xbox 360 launch STOMPS

-the PS2 launch
-the Dreamcast launch
-the N64 launch
-The Gamecube launch

Gamecube, probably. PS2, questionable, but not stomps. N64, unless you can show me a game that has the same impact that Mario 64 had (it literally sold almost a million units all on its own) no way. American DC launch not even close.

 

[Speevy]

A fanboy too blind to see mediorce games on his platform of choice. You do not see this everyday.

I see all the makings of a fantastic launch.

1) Variety in genre coverage
2) Quality
3) Fantastic graphics


How many launches meet all three of those criterion?

 

[Speevy]

Gamecube, probably. PS2, questionable, but not stomps. N64, unless you can show me a game that has the same impact that Mario 64 had (it literally sold almost a million units all on its own) no way. American DC launch not even close.

That has NOTHING to do with the quality of a launch. People who buy systems want GAMES. Otherwise, the system ends up selling on a few first party franchises alone, then everyone drops it (gamers and developers included).

You cannot defend a 2-game launch against a 20 game one. I don't care what one of the games was.

 

[Speevy]

I don't think anyone except for a segment of XBox owners will call PGR3 best of its class. Oblivion is WAY too niche to be AAA (check out Morrowind sales). NBA2K6 is cross platform and only seeing technical upgrades on the X360.

The PS3 is several months away. Cross-platform is irrelevant, just as it was with SSX.

PGR3 is best of its class. Best graphics, best arcade driving game. No question.

Morrowind sold VERY well, as did the GOTY edition. What are you talking about?

 

[borghe]

I see all the makings of a fantastic launch.

1) Variety in genre coverage
2) Quality
3) Fantastic graphics


How many launches meet all three of those criterion?

no one is saying this is a shit launch, myself included. We are talking about Best Launch Evar!! In regards to that, it is possibly missing the games that will set the XBox360 apart from yesterday's consoles like previous launches did. SSX's levels were simply monsterous at the time. Mario 64, nothing had ever been seen like it before or for quite some time after. Soul Calibur was the yardstick by which all other fight games were measured for quite some time. Do I even need to mention Halo?

You seem to think we are trashing the launch. We aren't. But it is too full of "ok" games and missing the "HOLY SHIT!!!!" games to be considered best launch of all time.

The PS3 is several months away. Cross-platform is irrelevant, just as it was with SSX.

SSX was not cross platform until Tricky (SSX2). and NBA2K6 will be out on two other consoles this fall.

PGR3 is best of its class. Best graphics, best arcade driving game. No question.

IYHO. To most others it is a decent driving game but there are many other better ones out, on last gen consoles even.

Morrowind sold VERY well, as did the GOTY edition. What are you talking about?

could we get some Morrowind numbers in here, stat?

 

[Speevy]

And I say PGR3 is a "HOLY SHIT" game. Best looking racing/driving game EVER. On any platform.

As is Oblivion. Most content-rich and longest RPG ever. On any platform.

This launch has plenty of excellent titles and potentially excellent ones.

You don't have to bash or give credit to the launch. It is a fantastic launch, and you cannot defend other launches against it.


I'll tell you what. If you have the opportunity to play every Xbox 360 game that's released during the launch period, then you can assess the overall quality of the launch. Otherwise, stop making generalizations.

 

[borghe]

If you have the opportunity to play every Xbox 360 game that's released during the launch period, then you can assess the overall quality of the launch. Otherwise, stop making generalizations.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Speevy]

IYHO. To most others it is a decent driving game but there are many other better ones out, on last gen consoles even.

Yeah, but this is the next generation. Gran Turismo 4 may be better than GT5 for some odd reason, or people may just prefer it, but that doesn't mean GT5 is disqualified as the genre leader for next-generation.

 

[Speevy]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

As with all games, you assume quality first. Looks like a bunch of quality games to me.

 

[Unison]

I believe this is the US Dreamcast day-one launch lineup:

Powerstone
Mortal Kombat Gold
Soul Calibur
Sonic Adventure
Expendable
Blue Stinger
Trickstyle
Hydro Thunder
Tokyo Xtreme Racer
Monaco GP 2
Flag to Flag
TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
Pen Pen Trilcelon
House of the Dead 2
Air Force Delta
Aerowings
NFL2K
NFL Blitz 2000
Ready 2 Rumble

 

[borghe]

Yeah, but this is the next generation. Gran Turismo 4 may be better than GT5 for some odd reason, or people may just prefer it, but that doesn't mean GT5 is disqualified as the genre leader for next-generation.

umm.. that by definition precludes it from being an AAA game. Just because a game is the "best available for the console" doesn't make it AAA. Fantavision was the best possible fireworks simulator you could get for the PS2, and that wasn't AAA. Sonic Adventure was the best possible 3D platformer you could get for the DC (and that "gen"), yet I wouldn't consider that AAA.

As with all games, you assume quality first. Looks like a bunch of quality games to me.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... you don't assume anything. you go by what info has been released. and by that info the games look decent but nothing stands out as AAA.

 

[Acosta]

You cannot defend a 2-game launch against a 20 game one. I don't care what one of the games was.

I can, but take it as a matter of personal opinion.

An important, relevant and influential games it´s more important than a complete launchment lineup, no matter if it´s 20 or 50 games. What people want when they purchase a new system it´s something that redefines their vision of games and serves them to justify why he paid 500 $ on a new system.

For variety and quality there are the actual systems that have a lineup impossible to match for a new system at launch.

 

[gofreak]

You cannot defend a 2-game launch against a 20 game one. I don't care what one of the games was.

I think this is a very subjective matter (but of course, the whole bloody thing is, really). If X360 had "a Mario64" or "a Halo" at launch, I'd be first in line. Without that, I doubt I'll be buying one this year (thanks in part for my need for a new PC right now..but I'd make allowance for it still if there was such a title, even if that were very difficult ). For me, such a title would trump 20 mixed titles with no real standouts of AAAAAAA* quality.

 

[Speevy]

umm.. that by definition precludes it from being an AAA game. Just because a game is the "best available for the console" doesn't make it AAA. Fantavision was the best possible fireworks simulator you could get for the PS2, and that wasn't AAA. Sonic Adventure was the best possible 3D platformer you could get for the DC (and that "gen"), yet I wouldn't consider that AAA.

No, it's the best available for any next-generation console. I said next generation, which means it's a technical feat well above ANYTHING on current systems.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... you don't assume anything. you go by what info has been released. and by that info the games look decent but nothing stands out as AAA.

Decent? The games look great. See what I did there? You're not backing up anything you've said.

 

[Speevy]

I think this is a very subjective matter (but of course, the whole bloody thing is, really). If X360 had "a Mario64" or "a Halo" at launch, I'd be first in line. Without that, I doubt I'll be buying one this year (thanks in part for my need for a new PC right now..but I'd make allowance for it still if there was such a title, even if that were very difficult ). For me, such a title would trump 20 mixed titles with no real standouts of AAAAAAA* quality.

But there are standouts. I guess it will take launch to show some of you that.

 

[Speevy]

I can, but take it as a matter of personal opinion.

An important, relevant and influential games it´s more important than a complete launchment lineup, no matter if it´s 20 or 50 games. What people want when they purchase a new system it´s something that redefines their vision of games and serves them to justify why he paid 500 $ on a new system.

For variety and quality there are the actual systems that have a lineup impossible to match for a new system at launch.

No it isn't. Most gamers do not like 3D platformers. No N64 launch for them. Of course, it's not like that system only had 2 games for the next several months, or ended up selling only 35 million units or anything...

 

[borghe]

No, it's the best available for any next-generation console. I said next generation, which means it's a technical feat well above ANYTHING on current systems.

Fantavision and Sonic Adventure were "best available for next gen console" also. Helps when you are the first respective games for the console. :\

Decent? The games look great. See what I did there? You're not backing up anything you've said.

I am backing them up with what I've read. Same as you.

but whatever., being this thread has degenerated into us thinking you are a bit, well... overzealous.. eh. I think the point has been made. If you feel it is the best launch ever, more power to you. I know I won't be getting an X360 this year probably. Many others agree. Too each their own. The lineup looks ok, and on topic there doesn't look to be any serious duds, but I guess we will just agree to disagree on the relative placement of the launch compared to previous system launches.

No it isn't. Most gamers do not like 3D platformers. No N64 launch for them. Of course, it's not like that system only had 2 games for the next several months, or ended up selling only 35 million units or anything...

1 million consoles sold on a single game back when 1 million consoles meant something disagrees with you entirely.

 

[Unison]

No it isn't. Most gamers do not like 3D platformers. No N64 launch for them. Of course, it's not like that system only had 2 games for the next several months, or ended up selling only 35 million units or anything...

Oh come on... Mario 64 was a Must-Play title for pretty much EVERY gamer at the time. I hate N64 as much as anyone, but there's no denying that. It's one of those rare games that couldn't really be pigeonholed by its genre because it was THAT groundbreaking.

 

[gofreak]

But there are standouts. I guess it will take launch to show some of you that.

There are standouts in any crowd. I'm talking real, revelatory standouts ala Halo. I'm not saying there are or aren't, yet. I'll wait and see, but it'll take a lot to sway me this side of Christmas.

(If I weren't getting a new PC now, it'd be an easy choice. But as is, the most promising of the lot for me (Oblivion) is something I'll now play quite well without paying another €3-400. Combining that with my fast dwindling bank balance, and the standard goes up I'm afraid!).

 

[monkeyrun]

No it isn't. Most gamers do not like 3D platformers. No N64 launch for them. Of course, it's not like that system only had 2 games for the next several months, or ended up selling only 35 million units or anything...

now you are really trying too hard ....

 

[Speevy]

Here's another example.

Everyone loves Metal Gear Solid 4, right? Not me. Hate the series. Hate the genre. The idea of sneaking around and stabbing people in the neck makes me nervous. Not fun for me.

So if the PS3 launched with *just* MGS4, I would not buy it. It could be the best game ever, and is certainly one of the best looking ones.

That's meaningless to me. I'd rather have 20 quality PS3 games to choose from than one Metal Gear Solid 4 anyday.

 

[borghe]

Everyone loves Metal Gear Solid 4, right? Not me. Hate the series.

You just proved the point. Games like Mario 64, Halo, Soul Calibur, Super Mario World, SSX.. these games were transcedent. Back WHEN THEY WERE ORIGINALLY RELEASED the "genre" didn't matter, because the games were so fun that EVERYONE played them.

THAT is an AAA game.

If someone doesn't like racers, they likely won't play PGR3. If someone doesn't like long long long RPGs they won't touch oblivion. But people who didn't play platformers still played Mario 64, people who didn't play fighters still played Soul Calibur, and people who didn't like FPS games (and this is a big one) picked up Halo instantly. If any of the X360 games turn out like those, then I recant my statements, but so far it isn't looking like it.

 

[Speevy]

If someone doesn't like racers, they likely won't play PGR3. If someone doesn't like long long long RPGs they won't touch oblivion. But people who didn't play platformers still played Mario 64, people who didn't play fighters still played Soul Calibur, and people who didn't like FPS games (and this is a big one) picked up Halo instantly. If any of the X360 games turn out like those, then I recant my statements, but so far it isn't looking like it.

That doesn't make any sense at all. You're saying that PGR3 somehow isn't good enough to transcend the racing genre? I'll say it is. You're saying Oblivion doesn't transcend the RPG genre? I say it does.

But if you absolutely detest a genre, you're not going to enjoy playing a game. Mario 64 sold because of its quality, accessibility, and because of the Mario name. Had it been the most transcendent horse-racing simulation ever, it would have bombed.

 

[monkeyrun]

But if you absolutely detest a genre, you're not going to enjoy playing a game. Mario 64 sold because of its quality, accessibility, and because of the Mario name. Had it been the most transcendent horse-racing simulation ever, it would have bombed.

yeah and I am sure if it's a transcendent dog simulator it would have bombed too .......... wait ......... yeah it must've bombed ...... BAM ... yup totally bombed.

 

[Acosta]

No it isn't. Most gamers do not like 3D platformers. No N64 launch for them. Of course, it's not like that system only had 2 games for the next several months, or ended up selling only 35 million units or anything...

I couldn´t care less about N64 history, we are speaking of launchment, aren´t we?

Mario 64 exposed very well the strenghts of the new system and why it was something different and worth to play. Personal opinion about the genre doen´t change that.

Ridge Racer showed that arcade to home conversion was very near, Soul Calibur showed that arcade had been surpassed by home systems, Super Mario World exposed the high improvement that traditional 2D games would have in Super NES, Halo was a masterpiece on its genre. All them were important moments that are marked in gaming history, because they showed clearly the strenghts of its machine.

Doen´t mean anything at all, PS2 had nothing of that category and look the system it has become.

But the truth, and that is is something you seem to be agree, is that it seems there is nothing of that category on Xbox 360. So this is a dead end where we have different opinions of what´s make a biggest launchment.

I think each one have fair points and both are defendable, so is not like we can take this discussion too far.

 

[gofreak]

That doesn't make any sense at all. You're saying that PGR3 somehow isn't good enough to transcend the racing genre? I'll say it is. You're saying Oblivion doesn't transcend the RPG genre? I say it does.

But if you absolutely detest a genre, you're not going to enjoy playing a game. Mario 64 sold because of its quality, accessibility, and because of the Mario name. Had it been the most transcendent horse-racing simulation ever, it would have bombed.

So you now recognise the subjectivity of this issue?

And how this statement..

"You cannot defend a 2-game launch against a 20 game one. I don't care what one of the games was."

..just doesn't hold up?

I think talking in objective absolutes like this is what people have a problem with.

 

[Acosta]

You're saying that PGR3 somehow isn't good enough to transcend the racing genre? I'll say it is. You're saying Oblivion doesn't transcend the RPG genre? I say it does.

You won´t find a bigger supporter of Elder Scroll than me but I don´t think it will be anything more of a improvement of that type of forumla for RPGs, but it won´t be anything revolutionary that expose the main strenghts of the new machine and convince people to buy it just for playing. PGR 3 doen´t seem a step so big from PGR 2 to transcend racing game.

Again, all this could be bullshit and at the end Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, PGR or any other title could be considered as one of the most important games ever, We don´t know yet. I just say that in the case that no one achieve this status, it won´t be considered as one of the nest launch lienups for me.

But if you absolutely detest a genre, you're not going to enjoy playing a game. Mario 64 sold because of its quality, accessibility, and because of the Mario name. Had it been the most transcendent horse-racing simulation ever, it would have bombed.

That is not the case. If Nintendo would have released horse-racing so fun, so revolutionary and so well suited for its new machine that convinced people to buy the new machine to play that, yes, it would be considered as one of the most important launchment ever.

 

[Unison]

LOL @ this topic now. :lol

Looks like we found some duds.

 

[Ganondorf>Link]

... the fuck you say? *polishes shotgun*

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[krypt0nian]

LOL @ this topic now. :lol

Looks like we found some duds.

The point was we saw no duds back then. Of course there will be low reviewed titles, but I see no Pen Pen/CART/Blue Stinger in this bunch. No matter how shit TONY HAWK is, it will be heads and tails about those duds.

Good try though.

 

[Speevy]

LOL @ this topic now. :lol

Looks like we found some duds.

We found some mediocrity, but none of the crap that usually comes with launches. Still no Azuriks, Universal Studios Theme Parks, or Kabuki Warriors.

Hindsight is 20/20, so why did you bump this thread?

 

[krypt0nian]

We found some mediocrity, but none of the crap that usually comes with launches. Still no Azuriks, Universal Studios Theme Parks, or Kabuki Warriors.

Hindsight is 20/20, so why did you bump this thread?

He desperate to get a 1 in the owned column on me, but its not possible.

 

[Ryudo]

I am astounded by this forum yet again.

 

[Unison]

A lot of these 360 games appear to be worse than Blue Stinger!

 

[krypt0nian]

A lot of these 360 games appear to be worse than Blue Stinger!

:lol

 

[G-Fex]

Easy answer, Kameo.

 

[krypt0nian]

Easy answer, Kameo.

Kameo is as bad as Azurik? As bad as Pen Pen? Just stop - you've got nothing.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Easy answer, Kameo.

The average score is ~8. How is that a dud again?

Again, compare this to past launches. Think hard.

 

[Unison]

:lol

You're the one who started this thread by asking, "Where are the Blue Stingers?" IGN gave that game an 8.4. Only 3 360 games so far on IGN are 8.4 or higher out of 9 games reviewed.

Gamespot gave the game only a 6.3. Admittedly none of their 5 360 reviews score that low yet, but Gun and Tony Hawk both scored in the 6s.

It's not shaping up to be the BEST LAUNCH EVER at all. There are duds here.

 

[FoneBone]

Universal Studios Theme Parks

Not actually a launch title (and I can't believe I know that).

 

[Prine]

Easy answer, Kameo.

wrong

 

[krypt0nian]

You're the one who started this thread by asking, "Where are the Blue Stingers?" IGN gave that game an 8.4. Only 3 360 games so far on IGN are 8.4 or higher out of 9 games reviewed.

Gamespot gave the game only a 6.3. Admittedly none of their 5 360 reviews score that low yet, but Gun and Tony Hawk both scored in the 6s.

It's not shaping up to be the BEST LAUNCH EVER at all. There are duds here.

Again since you're slow. The thread was a state of the time thread and at that time there were no duds evident.

AND there still aren't. Review scores or no review scores, a TONY HAWK/GUN and especially a fucking KAMEO is heads and tails over the games I named.


Sorry. :lol

 

[Speevy]

Would anyone like me to find scores for past launch games? I'll be happy to do so.


For example, the standard-setting PSP launch:

2. Lumines PSP Ubisoft 71 7.7 90.6% 90.1%
3. Wipeout Pure PSP SCEA 71 8.0 88.2% 88.5%
4. Ridge Racer PSP Namco 64 7.9 87.7% 87.9%
10. Tony Hawk's Underground 2 Remix PSP Activision 63 7.7 83.5% 83.5%
18. Twisted Metal: Head-On PSP SCEA 50 7.9 80.8% 80.0%
20. Tiger Woods PGA Tour PSP EA Sports 27 7.0 79.2% 79.6%


Those were the games that scored over 80%

For 6 almost certain to be scored similarly games:

Kameo
PGR3
Perfect Dark 0
Madden
Call of Duty 2
Condemned

 

[G-Fex]

you people are joking yourselves. So much good remarks, hope you enjoy the cartoon as well.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

It seems like TOny hawk is a dud

 

[Unison]

Again since you're slow. The thread was a state of the time thread and at that time there were no duds evident.

Plenty of people in this very thread were happy to point out the duds, but you couldn't see them through your 360 goggles.

 

[krypt0nian]

you people are joking yourselves. So much good remarks, hope you enjoy the cartoon as well.

I love cartoons! Thanks!

Plenty of people in this very thread were happy to point out the duds, but you couldn't see them through your 360 goggles.

You fail since you still cannot compare TONY HAWK to the games I listed.. :lol

 

[HokieJoe]

Even though the commercial looks pretty cool, Gun just s c r e a m s dud to me. I don't know, maybe the game plays well, but it looks very this-gen to me so far.

 

[Speevy]

nm