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[lybertyboy]

Also, David, you're taking very cliched questions from the fans. Whose body would you step in? Who gives a shit.

Good job all around though.

Trust me I prefer asking good questions. When 95% of the questions all ask the same thing you sometimes have to dig deeper for questions. I solicite questions every week on the 1up boards and via Twitter. Would love to get questions from a wider circle of the audience.

 

[templeusox]

So why not just solicit questions on a discretionary basis to augment an interview, instead becoming its own segment? It's so much more interesting to me when someone in the room comes up with a question organically, which flows with the conversation. Questions from the listeners always makes a segment choppy and lack fluidity. You are so much better at coming up with questions than people on Twitter.

Just my two cents.

 

[Virro]

Trust me I prefer asking good questions. When 95% of the questions all ask the same thing you sometimes have to dig deeper for questions. I solicite questions every week on the 1up boards and via Twitter. Would love to get questions from a wider circle of the audience.

Way to throw the fans under the bus.

Its lose/lose. When will people learn?

 

[lybertyboy]

Way to throw the fans under the bus.

Its lose/lose. When will people learn?

Not intentionally trying to throw anyone under the bus. My response was an example of a poorly worded response typed on an iPhone while watching a documentery out of the corner of my eye.

Including user questions as part of the interview segment instead of segregating them on their own is probably the best way to go going forward.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Wow, you're very well spoken. I wish I had half the command of the spoken word that you do. Now go on the Bombcast if you haven't already.

Thanks Would be happy to do the Bombcast, they just need to invite me

 

[Virro]

Not intentionally trying to throw anyone under the bus. My response was an example of a poorly worded response typed on an iPhone while watching a documentery out of the corner of my eye.

Including user questions as part of the interview segment instead of segregating them on their own is probably the best way to go going forward.

Was joking.

Just pointing out if you ask the deep questions, someone is bound to yell out "bored! boring! too thinky! fast forward!" and if you ask the softballs people are going to put you on a spit for not being Tim Russert or something.

I love it when you guys ask the questions you know the assholes of the audience (the captain obviouses) would if they were there, stuff that would make the guest uneasy and they might not have a prepared response for. At the very least its entertaining. Its a fine line you're trying to maintain I'm sure. But every once in a while, you can tell a question hits a nerve for a guest. I love those moments. Oh well. I suppose they're people too.

 

[Buckethead]

Good stuff Whitta. About half way in.
I'm sure at some point I'll bother you for tips and advice about screenwriting and the Hollywood climate.

So I apologize in advance.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Also not a fan of user questions in general. They always seem to slow down any momentum just to give some sense of community. Plus, as David himself even said, the questions usually aren't that interesting. So don't ask them at all. No need to force it.

 

[Gowans]

Whitta!

!

 

[Jakeh111]

Always love to listen to any podcast Gary is on!

 

[karobit]

For various reasons I spent a good chunk of last week reading up on The Day After, The War Game, and Threads. Hearing Gary Whitta reference Threads on the podcast brought it back for me and now I'm in a sour mood again.

Otherwise great show!

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Yeah, I agree with those complimenting Gary, you really were a fantastic, interesting guest.
As for user questions, 'the inhabit another body question' yes, was silly, but I generally enjoy them, because I think users can/are willing/think of questions that the interviewers might hesitate to ask.
Of course that only works if thse questions are asked.

I personally didn't know what to ask Gary, although if I'd known about his earlier Akira script involvements .

 

[eznark]

Just started listening, the "long development cycle = hatred" sweeping comment seemed strange, especially considering how well Dragon Age has been received.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Thanks to all those who had nice things to say, glad you enjoyed it Will be happy to do it again any time if they'll have me back!

 

[Y2Kev]

Excellent podcast. I had no idea Gary Whitta was British :lol

And David, you were never forced to pick up guns in Mirror's Edge. I played without touching them because I thought they sucked. That sucked too, though. The combat in Mirror's Edge was just completely awful. It was only acceptable when it was 1v1 so you could counter, but frequently you were pitted against three or more guys firing at you simultaneously, so you had to rush it. Mirror's Edge combat was like running into brick walls and there being no impact.

Just started listening, the "long development cycle = hatred" sweeping comment seemed strange, especially considering how well Dragon Age has been received.

Eh, to qualify, Jeremy did say "protracted," and 4-5 years isn't really all that long for an RPG from original conception to completion when there's a lot of preproduction to be done on the world and such. I think it's fair to say that 12 years for an FPS is abnormal.

 

[No_Style]

Gary was indeed a very interesting guest. I wanted to hear more about his views on movies and games. His journey from games media to the movie industry is fascinating.

 

[rollingstart]

Mirror's Edge combat worked. When I first played it on PS3, I hated it because I was trying to get through without using guns. When I played it again on PC, I thought it was awesome with the guns. It's also one of those games where there is no reason to turn up the difficulty. The focus is on platforming, not combat. It's more fun just to seem like a bad ass, steal a gun, go pew pew at the remaining enemies, then continue on your way. And you never needed to kill all the enemies, just those in your way.

 

[GhaleonQ]

I know Whitta's technically been on other podcasts since Game Theory, but I miss him in a starring role. I can't wait!

 

[Chris Murphy]

Thanks to all those who had nice things to say, glad you enjoyed it Will be happy to do it again any time if they'll have me back!

I feel bad now considering i'm the only person in this thread that that had a bad reaction to your opinions on the podcast. Guess i'm just the PC defense force for this thread, I should get a series of Crysis animated gifs or something on the go.

I found everything bar your PC comments agreeable, especially when talking about Super Mario Wii. Which I have yet to buy.

 

[lybertyboy]

And David, you were never forced to pick up guns in Mirror's Edge. I played without touching them because I thought they sucked. That sucked too, though. The combat in Mirror's Edge was just completely awful.

Yeah, I meant to qualify that by adding that I was actually talking about being forced into the combat in general.

 

[theBishop]

Next-Gen podcast: Best gaming podcast of all time

Spoiler

When not flaming the PS3!

 

[mattiewheels]

Whoa, you're british! Good to hear from you gary.

 

[JWong]

Sounds like SW:OR is not going to be as special as they say it will be.

No one can break out of the game archetypes.

 

[Zeliard]

Mirror's Edge combat worked. When I first played it on PS3, I hated it because I was trying to get through without using guns. When I played it again on PC, I thought it was awesome with the guns. It's also one of those games where there is no reason to turn up the difficulty. The focus is on platforming, not combat. It's more fun just to seem like a bad ass, steal a gun, go pew pew at the remaining enemies, then continue on your way. And you never needed to kill all the enemies, just those in your way.

I really think that keyboard/mouse makes a huge difference for that game. I originally rented the 360 version, and I thought it was okay, but somewhat cumbersome. Especially, yep, the combat sections.

Fast-forward a while to the PC release. First of all, jesus fucking christ it is beautiful on the PC, even by normal console ---> PC standards. Just a jaw-droppingly good-looking game.

Secondly, it is far easier to control the game using a kb/mouse due to the first-person view. It becomes easier to land jumps in quick succession and link together certain moves you would have quite a bit of difficulty with using analog sticks. Disarming also becomes a much more viable tactic since you're just a lot more precise in general.

It almost completely changes the gameplay. Where you were once moving through levels relatively slowly and always stopping to see where you had to go next, you now have much clearer picture of your surroundings due to the speed and precision of a mouse (which emulates the character looking around), and the game becomes much more fluid as a result.

 

[Otrebor Nightmarecoat]

Another fantastic episode. Keep up the amazing work guys.

 

[Curufinwe]

Gary Whitta was the editor in chief of PC Gamer magazine in the US and UK...to suggest he's coming from an "ignorant" place on any level is ludicrous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Whitta

John Davison used to be the editor of PC Zone and still said more ignorant things about PC gaming on 1up podcasts than every other guest/host combined. Former involvement /= current understanding.

 

[eznark]

Eh, to qualify, Jeremy did say "protracted," and 4-5 years isn't really all that long for an RPG from original conception to completion when there's a lot of preproduction to be done on the world and such. I think it's fair to say that 12 years for an FPS is abnormal.

I thought they started showing Dragon Age like ten years ago? Desslock was talking about how different it was from when Bioware first started talking about it.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

I thought they started showing Dragon Age like ten years ago? Desslock was talking about how different it was from when Bioware first started talking about it.

What? No way man, they only started talking about Dragon Age three years ago.

 

[eznark]

Wikipedia says E3 2004. Must have misremembered.

 

[Ninja Face]

Thanks Would be happy to do the Bombcast, they just need to invite me

I need this.

 

[dLMN8R]

Despite the fact that I have some serious issues with Gary's oft-fallacious and wholly cliched opinions on the state of PC gaming, I thought his appearance on this episode and the whole episode in general was just plain fantastic. Once again, thanks David and everyone else!

 

[RobertM]

And here we go again with Half-life 2 and narrative. No Gary, I don't feel like I'm the character when I'm playing a mute, because all he becomes is just that, a mute character. I don't personify myself in that character, I view the muteness as the character's attribute which in term makes me believe that Gordon is just some sociopath that cares only about himself and killing everything in sight. It's actually a huge disconnect. Now if you give me a dialog tree on the lines of Fallout 3, I can apply myself to that character through the choices I make.

I actually prefer well rounded characters than mold your own. It's probably because of one thing: empathy. I connect with the character, I become that character, I can feel what the character is feeling and what's going through his/her head. It's not just about "me" being in the game, it's about the game moving me mentally and emotionally.

 

[Blackface]

I would be willing to bet there are more people playing Popcap/Yahoo/ Real Arcade etc.. games on the PC then people playing any games on a next-gen console.

For some reason people don't consider them gamers.

 

[legend166]

I would be willing to bet there are more people playing Popcap/Yahoo/ Real Arcade etc.. games on the PC then people playing any games on a next-gen console.

For some reason people don't consider them gamers.

They don't even consider Wii owners gamers and they paid $200+ for the specific purpose of playing video games.

Long ways to go yet.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I don't think that they don't think they're 'gamers' so much as they think of them as not part of their niche. Yeah, both groups play games, but the games are being played for very different reasons. It's like comparing someone who listens to alternative bands and someone who listens to Britney Spears. Both people listen to music, but that doesn't make the Britney Spears listener's tastes any more relevant in a discussion detailing the indie-rock scene (and visa-versa)

And here we go again with Half-life 2 and narrative. No Garry, I don't feel like I'm the character when I'm playing a mute, because all he becomes is just that, a mute character. I don't personify myself in that character, I view the muteness as the character's attribute which in term makes me believe that Gordon is just some sociopath that cares only about himself and killing everything in sight. It's actually a huge disconnect. Now if you give me a dialog tree on the lines of Fallout 3, I can apply myself to that character through the choices I make.

I actually prefer well rounded characters than mold your own. It's probably because of one thing: empathy. I connect with the character, I become that character, I can feel what the character is feeling and what's going through his/her head. It's not just about "me" being in the game, it's about the game moving me mentally and emotionally.

I'd say you're in the minority in thinking this.

 

[legend166]

I honestly never got the whole "Gordon Freeman is the best character ever!!1" thing, but yeah saying he's a sociopath goes a bit far.

 

[DMczaf]

No Inception trailer talk? Damn it Gary!

Speaking of Mirrors Edge, I wish EA would drop the price of the DLC.

 

[RobertM]

I'd say you're in the minority in thinking this.

What I think of Gordon, maybe, but if you don't find Gordon being just a two way mirror, then you're the minority (and it's not an implication of applying yourself to the game).

 

[HK-47]

And here we go again with Half-life 2 and narrative. No Gary, I don't feel like I'm the character when I'm playing a mute, because all he becomes is just that, a mute character. I don't personify myself in that character, I view the muteness as the character's attribute which in term makes me believe that Gordon is just some sociopath that cares only about himself and killing everything in sight. It's actually a huge disconnect. Now if you give me a dialog tree on the lines of Fallout 3, I can apply myself to that character through the choices I make.

I actually prefer well rounded characters than mold your own. It's probably because of one thing: empathy. I connect with the character, I become that character, I can feel what the character is feeling and what's going through his/her head. It's not just about "me" being in the game, it's about the game moving me mentally and emotionally.

This, though without the sociopathy. I just feel like there must be a conversation there that I'm only hearing half of. I connect more with the Survivors of L4D and the members of TF2 because they actually talk. To be honest, L4D is doing much more interesting things with narrative and dialogue then HL2 did.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

for me, it's not so much a case of "I am Gordon" as "I can imagine what Gordon is thinking/saying". In fact, it's even vaguer than that. It's not like I'm imagining sentences or actual dialogue, it's this weird unspoken, but inherently video-gamey thing that I find really cool. So in that regard, the narrative told in HL2 is a lot more interesting to me, as I feel more invested in it thanks to that tiny bit of personal expression that I subconsciously add to the game as I play. It's weird, I can't even articulate it properly, but yeah, like I said, it's cool because it's something that only video games can do. The HL series in general has always been great at doing that.

I find that in games where I can see the character (third-person games or when the camera cuts to different shot during cutscenes) it doesn't work as well.

 

[lowrider007]

Another great show, thanks.

And here we go again with Half-life 2 and narrative. No Garry, I don't feel like I'm the character when I'm playing a mute, because all he becomes is just that, a mute character. I don't personify myself in that character, I view the muteness as the character's attribute which in term makes me believe that Gordon is just some sociopath that cares only about himself and killing everything in sight. It's actually a huge disconnect. Now if you give me a dialog tree on the lines of Fallout 3, I can apply myself to that character through the choices I make.

I actually prefer well rounded characters than mold your own. It's probably because of one thing: empathy. I connect with the character, I become that character, I can feel what the character is feeling and what's going through his/her head. It's not just about "me" being in the game, it's about the game moving me mentally and emotionally.

I think this can ultimately depend on what your looking for in a game, I mainly play games to experience what it is like to be in another world, when I played through the Half-Life series I felt like 'I' was playing in that environment, not Gordon, If they had gave him dialogue that would of drastically broke down the illusion of immersion for me, think of the movie Total Recall, 'Douglas Quaid' becomes 'Hauser' but he is still himself, I know that in actuality 'Gordon' doesn't say anything but mentally I'm there in that world 'thinking' and sometime even saying out loud my own dialogue.

Edit -

I find that in games where I can see the character (third-person games or when the camera cuts to different shot during cutscenes) it doesn't work as well.

Agreed, when I play a third person game I feel like I'm controlling a character rather than being that character so I personally like it if the character has some interesting dialogue.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I don't know how successful depriving the protagonist of a voice is in terms of helping other players imagine that they "are" that character, but it's a technique that has always worked for me. It does have some strange narrative side-effects mostly in terms of limiting character interaction, but I never considered that players would take it to mean that Gordon was a mute sociopath! I feel like he *is* speaking, but with my own thoughts and emotional reactions rather than with pre-defined dialog and that for me helps form a connection between player and protagonist. Please tell me the mute thing is a minority opinion, I'd hate to think so many people who played the HL games so totally missed the point :lol

 

[BlaneH]

I can safely say I never imagined Gordon as a mute psychopath. Interesting how people can get totally different things out of the same game...

 

[HK-47]

How can you be speaking with your own thoughts when the game doesnt react them? It's just assumes Gordon said something. Not really an amazingly awesome storytelling mechanism. Dialogue is still preset for everyone else (hence why I find L4D's randomly generated dialogue superior and a place to keep an eye for the future of writing in games.) I mean my name isnt Gordon Freeman yet I'm constantly referred to as such. Clearly this is a character I am controlling, not an avatar. I'd be better off connecting to him rather than trying (and failing) to evoke the feeling that I am him.

 

[Snipes424]

Great podcast this week, a lot of interesting discussions.

 

[Ten-Song]

How can you be speaking with your own thoughts when the game doesnt react them? It's just assumes Gordon said something. Not really an amazingly awesome storytelling mechanism. Dialogue is still preset for everyone else (hence why I find L4D's randomly generated dialogue superior and a place to keep an eye for the future of writing in games.) I mean my name isnt Gordon Freeman yet I'm constantly referred to as such. Clearly this is a character I am controlling, not an avatar. I'd be better off connecting to him rather than trying (and failing) to evoke the feeling that I am him.

Yeah, I never really got into the whole "I am the character" thing. The Half Life games themselves seem almost schizophrenic to me, because it has amazingly well crafted characters, but all those characters center around a guy that never says anything, and never does anything unless prompted to.

I actually think the Left 4 Dead games do an outstanding job in all aspects of story telling. Pretty much everything is contextual, so my character only reacts when there's something to react to, and the story only exists if I want to go dig it up between character dialog, and the stuff written on the walls in the safe houses. Everything requires my input though, which does a far better job of making me interested in those characters and story.

Voice emotes also greatly help recent Valve games... or, that may just be how me and my friends like to screw with them constantly. For example, I cannot think of Louis and Francis as characters in Left 4 Dead now, without thinking of me playing as Francis constantly jamming on the laugh emote, and listening to my buddy play as Louis constantly going "NO! OH NO! NO! We... are gonna be OKAY! OH NO!" Do the same thing when I'm playing TF2 as well though. I refuse to communicate with voice chat, and just spam emotes while playing as a Pyro, which generally makes me as unhelpful as I can possibly be.

Back on track though. This far along, I think of a silent protagonist as lazy on the developers part. Unless there's some great and new amazing way to emote or react in first person that doesn't require speech, I just get kind of annoyed that a character can go through so much, and not have anything to say about it. For the example of contextual emoting, the characters in the Sims might as well not be saying anything at all, because it's all gibberish, but they'll still react to things as they happen. Where as in most FPS games these days, I feel more and more that I'm just a camera with a gun. Everyone will shout and holler for me to do something, but I have no way to say "fuck off, do it yourself" or "wait a minute, assholes." Which doesn't matter, because those NPC's will continue to stand there and repeat the same shit until I do what they ask anyways, or they'll say it once, and just stand around like idiots waiting for me to trigger something.

 

[Micromegas]

I haven't listened to 1up for a dog's age, but wanted to listen to Gary Whitta Gary Whitta Gary Whitta -- why is this not showing up on iTunes?

 

[OmniAvenger]

It's funny that the guest industry panelist is the person most candid about criticizing people and companies in the industry.

Also, David, you're taking very cliched questions from the fans. Whose body would you step in? Who gives a shit.

Good job all around though.

Yeah, questions like that are total shit. " If you could, whose body would you like to inhabit for one day?" What does that have to do with games or anything? I mean, when was the last time I played a character that wasn't me?

 

[Benson]

It's nice to hear a British voice on a podcast, most seem to be all west coast Americans and that accent REALLY annoys me. Someone in the UK needs to make a podcast of the calibre our American friends make.

 

[sun-drop]

love Gary Whitta , great podcast david.

totally agree with gary on the whole thing about peiople who skip cutscenes .. i mean WTf ..do these people FF through movies to the action bits as well?

pointless .. you loose all frame of reference of what your doing. people who do that must have ADD or something.