4 Unhealthy Mentalities the Internet Turned into Movements

Status
Not open for further replies.
no i just hate assholes who revel in the fact that they know there isn't a god in the sky. like, no shit. you know what the worst thing that people who think there's a god in the sky do? they rally around the fact that they think there's a god in the fucking sky. it's like a bunch of assholes took the worst part about religion and turned it into being "against religion".

hate actions, hate ideas, hate anything you perceive as against human rights.. just quit pretending its root is in your lack of belief in something you claim to hate.
 
no i just hate assholes who revel in the fact that they know there isn't a god in the sky. like, no shit. you know what the worst thing that people who think there's a god in the sky do? they rally around the fact that they think there's a god in the fucking sky. it's like a bunch of assholes took the worst part about religion and turned it into being "against religion".

hate actions, hate ideas, hate anything you perceive as against human rights.. just quit pretending its root is in your lack of belief in something you claim to hate.

That's like the most meaningful post I've ever seen you write.
 

Yes.

I learned about the MGTOW phenomenon when I came across this blog. There are some nutty people out there.

The sad thing is, people in that broader movement have either prevented positive change or effected real negative changes:

At the end of October, National Domestic Violence Awareness Month, members of the men’s movement group RADAR (Respecting Accuracy in Domestic Abuse Reporting) gathered on the steps of Congress to lobby against what they say are the suppressed truths about domestic violence: that false allegations are rampant, that a feminist-run court system fraudulently separates innocent fathers from children, that battered women’s shelters are running a racket that funnels federal dollars to feminists, that domestic-violence laws give cover to cagey mail-order brides seeking Green Cards, and finally, that men are victims of an unrecognized epidemic of violence at the hands of abusive wives.

“It’s now reached the point,” reads a statement from RADAR, “that domestic violence laws represent the largest roll-back in Americans’ civil rights since the Jim Crow era!”

RADAR’s rhetoric may seem overblown, but lately the group and its many partners have been racking up very real accomplishments. In 2008, the organization claimed to have blocked passage of four federal domestic-violence bills, among them an expansion of the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) to international scope and a grant to support lawyers in pro bono domestic-violence work. Members of this coalition have gotten themselves onto drafting committees for VAWA’s 2011 reauthorization. Local groups in West Virginia and California have also had important successes, criminalizing false claims of domestic violence in custody cases, and winning rulings that women-only shelters are discriminatory.

[...]

“The biggest concern, though, is not the wasted effort on a false issue,” writes Straton, but the encouragement given to batterers to consider themselves the victimized party. “Arming these men with warped statistics to fuel their already warped worldview is unethical, irresponsible, and quite simply lethal.”

In this, critics like Australian sociologist Michael Flood say that men's rights movements reflect the tactics of domestic abusers themselves, minimizing existing violence, calling it mutual, and discrediting victims. MRA groups downplay national abuse rates, just as abusers downplay their personal battery; they wage campaigns dismissing most allegations as false, as abusers claim partners are lying about being hit; and they depict the violence as mutual-part of an epidemic of wife-on-husband abuse-as individual batterers rationalize their behavior by saying that the violence was reciprocal. Additionally, MRA groups' predictions of future violence by fed-up men wronged by the family-law system seem an obvious additional correlation, with the threat of violence seemingly intended to intimidate a community, like a fearful spouse, into compliance.​
 
Wow at the anti-woman forum. I don't know if it's sillier than that forum for people who believe the Earth is flat I found some time ago.
 
/r/atheism is a community for atheists where they can keep to themselves. Comparing that to door to door religion or conservative religious dogma being forced down your throat isn't nearly the same. I'm not sure what you'd expect from Reddit, either. Reddit is not all atheists.

Except that's exactly what's it not. r/atheism is a default subreddit, which means anyone not logged in or has unsubscribed from it, sees it on the front page, much to r/atheism's delight. Only so many pictures with text over them with hundreds of comments of people agreeing with eachother before it's annoying. The pics of facebooks posts of people demeaning others and then posting it themselves for "karma" is great too.
 
no i just hate assholes who revel in the fact that they know there isn't a god in the sky. like, no shit. you know what the worst thing that people who think there's a god in the sky do? they rally around the fact that they think there's a god in the fucking sky. it's like a bunch of assholes took the worst part about religion and turned it into being "against religion".

hate actions, hate ideas, hate anything you perceive as against human rights.. just quit pretending its root is in your lack of belief in something you claim to hate.

A lot of these ideas and actions that atheist are opposed to come from religion and religion's holy books. Religion is the root of a lot of these ideas. We aren't pretending. And belief in an afterlife and the rewards and punishments that are supposed to come with it, is the big factor that is motivating people to perform these horrible actions that atheists are opposed to. You can't tell people "stop doing x!", if "x" is part of their religious tradition, or if their holy books command them to do "x".
 
EDIT nevermind i'm not going to make this thread about something i said when really the thread doesn't have anything to do with it.

men's rights people are the worst.
 
The Southern Poverty Law Center has some articles about how many MRAs are basically Hate Groups given the misinformation spread and the tactics they employ.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...wse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...ing/myths-of-the-manosphere-lying-about-women
This is. Wow. As a male I find myself thinking all the time "man, being a guy is so much easier than being a woman". And these guys think think they're being oppressed? What exactly they can't do or struggle to achieve because of their gender?
 
The Southern Poverty Law Center has some articles about how many MRAs are basically Hate Groups given the misinformation spread and the tactics they employ.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...wse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...ing/myths-of-the-manosphere-lying-about-women

Alcuin is a blog that promotes the “Intellectual Renaissance of the Western Tradition.” “Just as the Nazis had to create a Jewish conspiracy as a way to justify mass slaughter,” one post declares, “so feminists have to create patriarchy as a way to justify mass slaughter of innocent unborn, and the destruction of men and masculinity. Rape is now a political crime, not a crime of sex or violence. A man doesn’t have to rape in order to be a rapist. A man is a rapist until he somehow proves himself innocent.” Another post, titled “Having their cake,” asserts that “Western women … act, dress, and look like hairy fat pigs, but get angry when they can’t find a man … act like bitches, but expect men to respect them … don’t know what the hell they want, but seek power over men and over everything.”

Crazy group, and this is just one of them.

EDIT: Looks like it gets worse

This site’s mission statement describes American women as “generally immature, selfish, extremely arrogant and self-centered, mentally unstable, irresponsible and highly unchaste. The behavior of most American women is utterly disgusting.” Plus, they supposedly pose a higher risk of divorce than women from such countries as Russia, Thailand and the Philippines, where the blog suggests men find their mates. The site is rife with posts from outsiders, like the recent one that said: “I think we should export all american [sic] bitches to other countries and take in women from other places. … Have you noticed how fat these sluts get AT AN EARLY AGE… . f you were allowed to beat your wife we wouldn’t be dealing with this crap.”
 
This is. Wow. As a male I find myself thinking all the time "man, being a guy is so much easier than being a woman". And these guys think think they're being oppressed? What exactly they can't do or struggle to achieve because of their gender?

Have sex with beautiful women with no independent volition, basically.
 
This is. Wow. As a male I find myself thinking all the time "man, being a guy is so much easier than being a woman". And these guys think think they're being oppressed? What exactly they can't do or struggle to achieve because of their gender?

The MRA nuttiness rabbit hole goes rather deep. They're a charming bunch:

The abuser lobby, which ridiculously calls itself the “men’s rights movement”, was handed a massive victory today by the Republican-controlled House, who passed a watered down version of the Violence Against Women Act. Prior to this year, even Republicans by and large felt that tacitly endorsing moderate levels of wife-beating was a bridge too far, but since their new motto is, “Bitches: Fuck ‘Em”, I suppose this sort of thing was inevitable. Right Wing Watch has a piece up about the lobbyists who influenced this vote. These lobbyists, led by the anti-victim group Concerned Women for America, is a real cadre of hateful people. The coalition released a letter supporting the watered-down bill, and it was signed by a rather notorious wife-beater who ran for office by claiming his ex-wife endorsed him, which she did not. There’s also a group that represents men who purchase mail order brides. They’re concerned that the bill would allow women who have been secured through their services to divorce husbands who beat them without being deported. (A favorite tactic of abusers is to marry immigrants, often secured through these services, and then terrorize them with the threat of deportation if they don’t take their beatings like good girls.) These are the people that the Republicans are listening to.

The letter itself is some odious shit, the typical vile conservative beliefs tidied up in euphemistic language:

There is no denying the very real problem of violence against women and children. However, the programs promoted in VAWA are harmful for families. VAWA often encourages the demise of the family as a means to eliminate violence.

Emphasis mine. That sentence is a polite expression of the belief that’s widespread in MRA circles and the Christian right that domestic violence is primarily the victim’s fault, usually for being insufficiently subservient to her husband or partner. The theory is that the solution for domestic violence is to encourage victims to stay with their abusers and just work harder on the marriage, usually by trying to be even more placating. I mean, this sentence is offensive on its face—they take it as a given that there’s something wrong with helping women get out of abusive relationships—but if you understand the ideology behind it, it gets uglier. It’s reflective, in fact, of what the wife-beater/Republican politician Timothy Johnson told the police when he was arrested for beating his wife in 1996.​

(more at the link)

pigeon, it took me a minute but I did eventually get your point, I think. Though personally I have more problems with religion than the fact that the dominant theological interpretations of scripture and religious tradition seem to have a tendency to be, er, bad when it comes to X social issue of the day, the fact that religions do have this plasticity is something I appreciate when it goes in the right direction.

Have sex with beautiful women with no independent volition, basically.

Go read Real Doll forums or MRA forums where they complain how unfair it is that women can say no to sex for evidence of that.
 
This is. Wow. As a male I find myself thinking all the time "man, being a guy is so much easier than being a woman". And these guys think think they're being oppressed? What exactly they can't do or struggle to achieve because of their gender?

They're oppressed because the 50s came and went.
 
no i just hate assholes who revel in the fact that they know there isn't a god in the sky. like, no shit. you know what the worst thing that people who think there's a god in the sky do? they rally around the fact that they think there's a god in the fucking sky. it's like a bunch of assholes took the worst part about religion and turned it into being "against religion".

hate actions, hate ideas, hate anything you perceive as against human rights.. just quit pretending its root is in your lack of belief in something you claim to hate.

Those are all good points and I even agree with many of them. Still, you shouldn't have said "militant."

/gang stalking
 
MRM is not anti-women

It seems like many people don't even understand that MGTOW, PUA, etc is not even the same thing as MRM/MRA, though you could probably argue there is SOME overlap. There's plenty of facets to the whole movement, I wouldn't paint it with such broad strokes. I won't deny that there are bad elements though. That's true for pretty much any movement out there.
 
It seems like many people don't even understand that MGTOW, PUA, etc is not even the same thing as MRM/MRA, though you could probably argue there is SOME overlap. There's plenty of facets to the whole movement, I wouldn't paint it with such broad strokes. I won't deny that there are bad elements though. That's true for pretty much any movement out there.

Exactly
 
pigeon, it took me a minute but I did eventually get your point, I think. Though personally I have more problems with religion than the fact that the dominant theological interpretations of scripture and religious tradition seem to have a tendency to be, er, bad when it comes to X social issue of the day, the fact that religions do have this plasticity is something I appreciate when it goes in the right direction.

Yeah, I agree that a lot of currently successful religious groups have adopted some problematic and pernicious ideas that are kind of screwing up our society, though. I hope it won't disappoint you too much to learn that I'm religious, albeit in an inoffensive liberal-socialist kind of way!
 
I'm utterly fascinated by the Gang Stalking thing. I've been reading through massive YouTube comments threads of totally delusional individuals, and I can't stop.
 
It seems like many people don't even understand that MGTOW, PUA, etc is not even the same thing as MRM/MRA, though you could probably argue there is SOME overlap. There's plenty of facets to the whole movement, I wouldn't paint it with such broad strokes. I won't deny that there are bad elements though. That's true for pretty much any movement out there.
When your movement is mostly bad apples you need to consider that maybe the whole damn idea is just rotten.
 
I'm trying to decide whether to laugh at these assertions that the broader MRA movement is not horrifically misogynistic or to be sad that people actually believe it.

Yeah, I agree that a lot of currently successful religious groups have adopted some problematic and pernicious ideas that are kind of screwing up our society, though. I hope it won't disappoint you too much to learn that I'm religious, albeit in an inoffensive liberal-socialist kind of way!

Some of my best friends are religious!
 
I'm utterly fascinated by the Gang Stalking thing. I've been reading through massive YouTube comments threads of totally delusional individuals, and I can't stop.

That stuff really bums me out. I want to pitch a startup where we create fake gangstalking forums that slowly track people into counseling and medication.
 
I'm trying to decide whether to laugh at these assertions that the broader MRA movement is not horrifically misogynistic or to be sad that people actually believe it.

It's unfortunate that MRA movement is filled with so many misguided, women-hating men with anger problems, because there are certain real issues affecting men, particularly among minorities and younger adults. The idiocy there is detracting from what could be a positive effort to get aimless and underachieving boys and young men back on track.
 
I'm trying to decide whether to laugh at these assertions that the broader MRA movement is not horrifically misogynistic or to be sad that people actually believe it.

Can't decide. Will attempt to do both at the same time.

It's unfortunate that MRA movement is filled with so many misguided, women-hating men with anger problems, because there are certain real issues affecting men, particularly among minorities and younger adults. The idiocy there is detracting from what could be a positive effort to get aimless and underachieving boys and young men back on track.

Those issues can and should be addressed individually, rather than as a nonsensical blanket "Men's Rights" concept that can be so easily turned into a misogynistic blame game, assuming that's not what it is by default in the first place.
 
Those issues can and should be addressed individually, rather than as a nonsensical blanket "Men's Rights" concept that can be so easily turned into a misogynistic blame game, assuming that's not what it is by default in the first place.

Recent guest posting from a blog I read on occasion:

[...] Once the study of women qua women had been firmly established in academic institutions, some theorists – mostly feminist theorists or those heavily influenced by them – rather naturally began to ask “if the study of women qua women has yielded such positive fruits, then would an examination of men qua men yield similar fruits?” While it was true that men had been the de facto focus of sociological and anthropological analysis for much of the history of the social sciences, they had, for the most part, been studied only in terms of their actions and effects on the world; they had never truly been studied as men. What did it mean to be a man? What is masculinity? How do particular behaviours come to be seen as ‘masculine’, and what does the valorization of those behaviours lead to? And thus was a whole new sub-discipline of gender studies born.

[...]

The study of men really took off with the arrival of a number of absolutely brilliant scholars in the field – most notably R.W. Connell, Michael Kimmel and Michael Messner. Connell’s work Masculinities is the most-cited work in the entire field and an absolute must-read for students of gender studies. Messer and Kimmel only slight less so. Connell’s theory of masculinities radically altered the way in which gender theorists understood the process of becoming gendered beings. Alright, I’ll admit that Judith Butler had more than a few things to say on the subject, but her writing was physically painful for me to read, alright? We all have our favourites, and Connell is mine. R.W. Connell’s concept of ‘hegemonic masculinity’ made heavy use of intersectionality and her resultant theoretical lens posited that there is no such thing as a singular male gender; there are dozens of competing masculinities, arranged into complex hierarchies of dominance and subordination, and all of them subjugated by – and measured against – an articulation of masculinity that is culturally dominant and rigorously – if subtly – enforced. These competing forms of masculinity are intersected by multiple vectors of privilege and oppression which make the entire structure chaotic, violent, and ultimately self-destructive.

[...]

The point I’m trying to make is that academic analyses of men and men’s lives are becoming increasingly common in the social sciences, and a lot of the research that is done can (and does) fit seamlessly with feminist analyses of women and women’s lives. The resultant body of data suggests that a better understanding of these sorts of social pressures can go a long way to helping men break out of the vicious cycles of toxic masculinity that threaten both themselves and everyone else. Patriarchy hurts everyone, and recognizing that can help men become better citizens and generally better people.

The Men’s Rights Movement does nothing to help us. Contrary to their wild-eyed assertions that ‘teh menz’ are the real victims in society, the data shows that while men have many, many problems, the vast majority of their issues still take place within a space of almost unparalleled privilege. No, men do not have it worse than women, PoCs or members of the LGBT communities. No, feminists are not out to destroy men or strip them of their ‘hard-won’ rights. No, the struggle for recognition and an equitable share of the fruits of civilization is not a zero-sum game with men at the losing end! Men are not losing out to anyone; everyone else is merely asking to share the same rights and privileges that men have always possessed.​

I thought it was a really great post. I think it's rather sad that people are not more aware that feminism has more to say about the issues facing men than the MRM does, though.

But I must admit that I myself have not read those books on masculinities (though I have come into contact with some of the ideas in various books and blog postings over the years) and it is a bit of a hole in my education. It's funny that he mentions Butler, because I first came to her ideas secondhand through CJ Pascoe's Dude You're A Fag which basically applies her thoughts about how we construct our gendered self in opposition to a "constitutive outside", which is constructed from various "abject identities." These "abject identities" consist of unacceptably (by social standards) gendered selves. In her interactional model this "abject identity" must be named in order to give it social power and create a "threatening specter." In her book, she identifies the "fag" as occupying this space as that "threatening spectre" in the California high school she performed her ethnographic survey.

... But I still haven't actually read Judith Butler firsthand.
 
militant atheists

Obligatory

atheistscartoons.jpg


Militant+Atheist..JPG
 
Just an excerpt taken from men going there own way forums

7Ev2x.png


I can't say that most of that I don't agree with logically

it's eloquent as hell though

This guy has obviously been cheated on and probably more than once. And obviously that is something that one can sympathize with.

But he obviously went off the rails based on his experience and went to bad place. It is like becoming a racist because you were once robbed by a person of a different race.

Hopefully that guy has calmed the fuck down. Just because a woman burned you, that does not give you license to fuck over other women.
 
God, you guys. Atheists are completely and totally irrelevant to the world scene as they lack:
1. Money
2. Power
3. Political power, which is the same thing as the first two.

The worst thing atheists can do is annoy people online.

The worst thing any other religious group can do...is pretty much change the course of history in the world, since international affairs and politicians (i.e. the President) are affected by them daily.

Atheists vs. religious groups are not comparable and not a good debate since it's like comparing Mom and Pop's Family Diner to McDonald's. Oooh, yeah, that small fry in smalltown, Ohio is a HUGE threat to the multi-national superpower.
 
Atheists dont knock on my door handing me shitty pamphlets & cards about Jesus, Jehovah, or Mormon underpants, then trying to have a conversation at my doorstep about saving my soul.

So less annoying to me.
 
Atheists dont knock on my door handing me shitty pamphlets & cards about Jesus, Jehovah, or Mormon underpants, then trying to have a conversation at my doorstep about saving my soul.

So less annoying to me.

This happens to me about every three weeks. A nice lady named Maggie comes and says hi, but she's not very fire and brimstoney. Plus, she makes the effort to get to know the folks in the neighborhood and she tries to converse in Punjabi (she's actually pretty good at it) since the majority of folks here are Indian immigrants or descendants of Indian immigrants.

She's pretty cool. I'm not about to change my religion, but she doesn't seem to really force her beliefs on us. She simply gives us the pamphlet, talks for a couple of minutes and invites us to the next meeting or organization or whatever. I don't really find it annoying at all.

Of course, that might be a Canadian door-to-door Mormon thing.
 
This happens to me about every three weeks. A nice lady named Maggie comes and says hi, but she's not very fire and brimstoney. Plus, she makes the effort to get to know the folks in the neighborhood and she tries to converse in Punjabi (she's actually pretty good at it) since the majority of folks here are Indian immigrants or descendants of Indian immigrants.

She's pretty cool. I'm not about to change my religion, but she doesn't seem to really force her beliefs on us. She simply gives us the pamphlet, talks for a couple of minutes and invites us to the next meeting or organization or whatever. I don't really find it annoying at all.

Of course, that might be a Canadian door-to-door Mormon thing.

We have those in the US, they're usually just Jehovah's Witnesses, though.
 
Can't decide. Will attempt to do both at the same time.

Those issues can and should be addressed individually, rather than as a nonsensical blanket "Men's Rights" concept that can be so easily turned into a misogynistic blame game, assuming that's not what it is by default in the first place.

The various troubling issues that affected women 30 years ago came together to form the first generation of feminism. Would you argue that the movement should've never happened and each individual issue tackled separately? One such issue was inequality in education, such as men outnumbering women in college. Nowadays, the severity to which women outnumber men in colleges is much greater than what started the reforms in education to get more women in the classroom. It's also been well-studied that changes in teaching and the classroom have negatively impacted boys from as early as kindergarten. Less competitiveness, hands-on work, team activities, and other engaging work, in favor of long periods of sitting, quietness, lecturing and increased testing, have led to a growing number of disinterested and unmotivated boys who are under-performing, failing, and ultimately dropping out.

Another example was pay inequality. Among Generation Y adults (roughly early 20s to mid 30s), women now earn more, earn a greater number of post-grad degrees, and are generally better employed. The one exception are CEO and executive-level positions, which constitute a small and generally older segment of the population. Anecdotal, but relevant: I work at a large firm and most of the new hires are women, presumably because of a lack of qualified male candidates. My own department, which isn't "female-oriented" in any way, consists of 6 men and 24 women -- with nearly all the senior positions being women. HR and management are intentionally reaching out to hire qualified male candidates, because on some level they realize something isn't quite right here.

I mentioned some of this once to a former coworker who happened to mention the very outdated line about women only earning x number of cents for every dollar a man makes, and she didn't believe me. I pointed her to the articles and studies from reputable sources. She still doubted it, ultimately shrugging it off and more-or-less stating she didn't care -- like so many other people, because these are little-known problems getting a fraction of the attention they deserve.

A few of the MRA rants are based in reality, but somewhere along the way that "movement" became misguided and went off the deep-end. But to deny that there exist male-specific problems worth addressing as such, is just wrong. If you disagree or wish to learn a lot more, then please read one of the books linked below.

Boys Adrift: The Five Factors Driving the Growing Epidemic of Unmotivated Boys and Underachieving Young Men
www.amazon.com/Boys-Adrift-Epidemic-Unmotivated-Underachieving/dp/0465072100/

Why Boys Fail: Saving Our Sons from an Educational System That's Leaving Them Behind
www.amazon.com/Why-Boys-Fail-Educational-Leaving/dp/0814420176/

The Trouble with Boys: A Surprising Report Card on Our Sons, Their Problems at School, and What Parents and Educators Must Do
www.amazon.com/The-Trouble-Boys-Surprising-Educators/dp/0307381293/
 
This is. Wow. As a male I find myself thinking all the time "man, being a guy is so much easier than being a woman". And these guys think think they're being oppressed? What exactly they can't do or struggle to achieve because of their gender?
The primary one? Getting custody of their children. I think that was more or less the founding issue of the movement.
 
This is. Wow. As a male I find myself thinking all the time "man, being a guy is so much easier than being a woman". And these guys think think they're being oppressed? What exactly they can't do or struggle to achieve because of their gender?

The class in power always imagines they're being oppressed. As things become more and more equal, those in the group considered the "standard" feel that rights are being taken from them.
 
Ah yes, MRA.

For some reason, this image of predominantly fat underachieving men with socialization and hygene problems that moan about how women don't hit on their big hunka lovin' selves gets conjured up.
 
Ah yes, MRA.

For some reason, this image of predominantly fat underachieving men with socialization and hygene problems that moan about how women don't hit on their big hunka lovin' selves gets conjured up.


You do realize there are plenty of women who are MRA's right?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom