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[YeulEmeralda]

8K is so 2020. I was expecting 16K. They better deliver it on the sixth.

Forget 16 bit we 16k now.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Do you know what the word IMAGINE means?

Yes, it's what PCMR does to justify their overpriced hardware.

 

[BlackTron]

So all the talk about tools on the Xbox side lacking was just bullshit?

Sony paid those devs to say that.

 

[Topher]

Sony paid those devs to say that.

We are going to hear about "slimy platform things" until the end of days, aren't we?

Thanks Phil

 

[BlackTron]

We are going to hear about "slimy platform things" until the end of days, aren't we?

Thanks Phil

Honestly man, it's kind of weird discourse to be a part of because the brand of projection (accuse you of what we are probably doing, or worse) is easy to compare to some real world stuff, unsettling to come to mind because you were talking about game tech. It's literally in an e-mail that Microsoft is "in a unique position to spend Sony out of business". To these people evidence is a fluke, belief is truth, enemy results are undeserved forgery, and lack of results are enemy sabotage. "Console War" is a pretty sad phrase when taken this damn literally.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

No patch for TLG is one of the most painful ones. I get that it was a sales failure after a decade of development but to just leave it with that 30 fps cap forever is so sad

What's interesting about TLG is that if you have a physical disc of the game like me, you can put it in the PS4 Pro with the console not connected to the Internet and it will happily run v1.0 at 60 fps but the game has crashes that were patched but the patches also add the 30 fps cap

But you are right, the nice thing about PC gaming is that you can just run the game faster when you upgrade your PC, devs don't need to do shit. Not so on consoles and it's one of the biggest issues PS4 Pro had and it will be an issue with PS5 Pro too

Exactly! Someone gets it! Whenever a new console comes out, everyone just wants to assume that games will get patched because fpr $700 that's a reasonable assumption ...the problem is this is the console games industy we're talking about! Publishers love the fact that we're at their mercy and many of them are greedy/stingy. As long as they know we're buying their products in record numbers, they feel no pressure to go back and patch something thats already exceeded their sales expectations. RDR2 is the perfect example- infinite resources but why should we spend any more time than we need to on a 60 fps patch when we can be working on a new project? Even though they know how much more enjoyable for gamers 60 fps would be for that game (esp a game like RDR2 with its long animations- it doesn't play well at 30).

Oh and maybe we can sell a "remaster" of it sometime in the future ....they can't get away with this kind of anti gamer attitude on PC but console they know we will accept their bullshit at this stage of the game. Maybe, eventually with the advent of newer, more expensive consoles like the Pro, console users will start getting angry enough about stuff like this and they'll be forced to "give back" a little with something like a fairly simple 60 fps patch...

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Series X is already 20% more powerful than base ps5.

PS5pro being 35% more power than ps5 will suddenly make it 4 times more powerful?

Improved ray tracing: over base ps5. Lmao.

There is very good reason why Mark Cerney showed ps4 games instead of latest titles to show the jump in quality. He didn’t wanted to show artifacting mess when upscaling from 720p to 4k by zooming in 8 times.

Sadly, you might have a VERY good point. 45% is not big!

 

[DavJay]

Im the type of guy who bought the 4090 but still think the PS5 Pro is overpriced.

They promised 4K 60fps with the original PS5 and what happen?

 

[Kacho]

They promised 4K 60fps with the original PS5 and what happen?

Rhetorical question or did you actually believe that?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

As I understand it 4k is such a massive increase in pixels that the PS5 would have to be 3 or 4 times more powerful than last gen to achieve it- in last gen games!

We don't see that kind of technological advance anymore. And certainly not for $€399.

 

[DavJay]

Rhetorical question or did you actually believe that?

I mean the ps4 was also advertised to be 4k 60fps.

 

[Bojji]

Rhetorical question or did you actually believe that?

I mean the ps4 was also advertised to be 4k 60fps.

 

[FoxMcChief]

How is Astro not on there???? It would benefit BIG time with ray tracing instead of cube maps.

Because it’s not some small game to benefit from minimal spec changes.

 

[lh032]

Series X is already 20% more powerful than base ps5.

PS5pro being 35% more power than ps5 will suddenly make it 4 times more powerful?

Improved ray tracing: over base ps5. Lmao.

There is very good reason why Mark Cerney showed ps4 games instead of latest titles to show the jump in quality. He didn’t wanted to show artifacting mess when upscaling from 720p to 4k by zooming in 8 times.

but ps5 performs better compared to the series X in most cases lol?
and i dont think using % to compare is fair, its not a simple math.
Low effort tryhard argument here.

 

[Kacho]

Across the motherfucking board!

 

[Guardian Monkey]

The price for performance for the ps5 pro is still good compared to PCs it sounds. If it performs well or close to a 4070 that’s not bad for price in the current market. Yeah games cost more, you pay for online, etc but that’s the price your going to pay for a streamlined closed eco system. Although it would be nice if it cost less, I am happy the option exists.

 

[King Dazzar]

They promised 4K 60fps with the original PS5 and what happen?

I think in general it gave it a good go delivering on that during the cross gen period. But there is forever a bigger push for ray tracing and UE5. I think its good base PS5 will still be the primary target. The Pro can then give that bit extra on top. I'm not expecting miracles, but overall I think its going to boost things noticeably enough. That bit extra, which for me is needed.

 

[BlackTron]

It could be Xbox’s fault. They do some crazy shit.

But when were these consoles launched, some 4 yrs ago?

Still tools are not done ?? Shiieeett.

It's not about done or not done.

Two photo editors come out and experienced experts use the .7 version of one to get better and faster results than the 2.0 version of another.

Internally their only metric of being "done" is feeling satisfied with their own tools and hoping the other guy doesn't have better ones. There is no universal force that would guarantee PS5 and X would achieve parity when their respective tools were "done", like building a house with plans or something.

Besides the fact this stuff is never really truly finished, of course the bulk of it must be before you even have a platform to publish on, after that it's just a question of how good and updated the tools are, whether they get around to any big improvements or just leave it.

 

[BlackTron]

As I understand it 4k is such a massive increase in pixels that the PS5 would have to be 3 or 4 times more powerful than last gen to achieve it- in last gen games!

We don't see that kind of technological advance anymore. And certainly not for $€399.

It's called DLSS (or PSSR).

Basically Nvidia has been killing it with their DLSS tech which uses AI to take a lower res image and upscale it. It needs special hardware, but the processing cost is much smaller than rendering natively.

Consoles have AMD graphics, while AMD has their own upscaling tech and it filled a need, it pretty much sucks compared to DLSS. This is why everyone is so excited about the prospect of a new Nintendo with DLSS. Miracles.

PS5 Pro is still AMD but has a new upscaling tech called PSSR while not quite as good, blows away what we had before and is almost as good as DLSS. Making it the first console that can trade blows with Nvidia AI upscaling.

So yeah, it's not bullshit.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Man I love marketing bullshit

Yeah updates to games don’t exist… its all fake right

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It's not about done or not done.

Two photo editors come out and experienced experts use the .7 version of one to get better and faster results than the 2.0 version of another.

Internally their only metric of being "done" is feeling satisfied with their own tools and hoping the other guy doesn't have better ones. There is no universal force that would guarantee PS5 and X would achieve parity when their respective tools were "done", like building a house with plans or something.

Besides the fact this stuff is never really truly finished, of course the bulk of it must be before you even have a platform to publish on, after that it's just a question of how good and updated the tools are, whether they get around to any big improvements or just leave it.

Right, so basically xbox is unable to provide tools that are as good 4 yrs into the generation.

Meanwhile devs are able to run all sorts of games on Series S by tons of optimisation.

Something is not adding up.

 

[Ammogeddon]

Bu bu but wait PS5 had 8k

 

[Preseznik]

You know what, instead of 8k for GT7 how about they fix shadows, anisotropic filtering and all the other problems this game has in visual quality, especially in VR?
8k, lol. Yeah I can see all those inadequacies at higher rez now.

 

[Preseznik]

Gran Turismo 7 on PS5 PRO with PSVR2, here we go! Hoping for 90FPS and higher resolution in VR mode.

I'm worried we won't be getting anything on the PSVR2 front, as they haven't mentioned any specifics.
Especially with GT7, given they've already laid out the new graphics modes, no mention of VR improvements.

Huge L if true.

 

[BlackTron]

Right, so basically xbox is unable to provide tools that are as good 4 yrs into the generation.

Meanwhile devs are able to run all sorts of games on Series S by tons of optimisation.

Something is not adding up.

You're right that something doesn't add up and all we can do from our vantage point is make informed speculation from what we can gather. Frankly, it is very unlikely that games running worse on Xbox is the simple result of a single direct reason. Rather it's a confluence of weighted factors that we aren't completely sure which matter more than others, but all of which contribute to the end result.

First, again the question isn't really, do the tools work or not. Obviously they do because we have a game console in the market with games on it. Maybe there is a helpful feature in PS kit not present in either Xbox or Switch. They don't mind plowing through it in Switch due to sales potential, then the S parity clause takes so much attention on Xbox that for Series X they just kinda push it out. Because nobody is going to buy it anyway and MS already paid for GP add.

I just completely made up the above but it includes vestiges of all kinds of theories floating around. Tools, Series S, game pass whatever. To be clear I don't think it actually happened that way but whatever reality is, it's some version of multiple factors interacting in this way. We are unable to pin the exact hows and whys with facts but one fact I'm confident on from everything is which way the wind is blowing (Xbox fucked up).

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I just completely made up the above but it includes vestiges of all kinds of theories floating around. Tools, Series S, game pass whatever. To be clear I don't think it actually happened that way but whatever reality is, it's some version of multiple factors interacting in this way. We are unable to pin the exact hows and whys with facts but one fact I'm confident on from everything is which way the wind is blowing (Xbox fucked up).

There can be any no of reasons why devs are not putting effort in xbox versions.

Not all of them are nefarious and it could be just that its sales potential is less. Though that is again, self fulfilling prophecy.

Am kinda enjoying messy launch of ps5pro though which seems to be direct result of xbox not being competitive. Anyone wanting xbox exiting industry will have to bear with it.

 

[BlackTron]

Exactly! Someone gets it! Whenever a new console comes out, everyone just wants to assume that games will get patched because fpr $700 that's a reasonable assumption ...the problem is this is the console games industy we're talking about! Publishers love the fact that we're at their mercy and many of them are greedy/stingy. As long as they know we're buying their products in record numbers, they feel no pressure to go back and patch something thats already exceeded their sales expectations. RDR2 is the perfect example- infinite resources but why should we spend any more time than we need to on a 60 fps patch when we can be working on a new project? Even though they know how much more enjoyable for gamers 60 fps would be for that game (esp a game like RDR2 with its long animations- it doesn't play well at 30).

Oh and maybe we can sell a "remaster" of it sometime in the future ....they can't get away with this kind of anti gamer attitude on PC but console they know we will accept their bullshit at this stage of the game. Maybe, eventually with the advent of newer, more expensive consoles like the Pro, console users will start getting angry enough about stuff like this and they'll be forced to "give back" a little with something like a fairly simple 60 fps patch...

This mentality is why I changed from a rabid fanboy must have physical console copy with pride gamer, to a bah humbug fuck it gamer. You just end up feeling insulted and fleeced by those you support the most, incessantly. Grab that shit on PC for five bucks.

 

[BlackTron]

There can be any no of reasons why devs are not putting effort in xbox versions.

Not all of them are nefarious and it could be just that its sales potential is less. Though that is again, self fulfilling prophecy.

Am kinda enjoying messy launch of ps5pro though which seems to be direct result of xbox not being competitive. Anyone wanting xbox exiting industry will have to bear with it.

I appreciate this post especially the bolded. That's part of making a console, it's how the whole picture comes together.

Personally I only want Xbox out because they are damaging. While it is too late now (they bought all the publishers) I'd have liked to see Xbox go away pre-acquisition. Now, in order to prevent even further damage, they need to stay to manage those studios (spoiler alert, this should happen, but probably an enormous loss of value just transpired and there is no stopping it).

Dealing with an expensive console option/variant is a pathetic consequence compared to all the other damage. Yes, I agree it would have been better if MS was good, I kept my Series X, they offered stiffer competition with Sony, and the whole industry would be better for it. But uh...they didn't.

The main reason people are bitching about price is, they want it. If they can't pay it, they will try to, and use old 5 until they can. That's "suffering from success". I would wait until Pro is out to call launch "messy". I do think there would be less margin for Sony if Xbox showed up to the party, and the cycle would repeat of basically denying revenue from each other. Xbox fenced themselves into this corner on their own, it's not "fans fault" or "Sony's fault".

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I appreciate this post especially the bolded. That's part of making a console, it's how the whole picture comes together.

Personally I only want Xbox out because they are damaging. While it is too late now (they bought all the publishers) I'd have liked to see Xbox go away pre-acquisition. Now, in order to prevent even further damage, they need to stay to manage those studios (spoiler alert, this should happen, but probably an enormous loss of value just transpired and there is no stopping it).

Dealing with an expensive console option/variant is a pathetic consequence compared to all the other damage. Yes, I agree it would have been better if MS was good, I kept my Series X, they offered stiffer competition with Sony, and the whole industry would be better for it. But uh...they didn't.

The main reason people are bitching about price is, they want it. If they can't pay it, they will try to, and use old 5 until they can. That's "suffering from success". I would wait until Pro is out to call launch "messy". I do think there would be less margin for Sony if Xbox showed up to the party, and the cycle would repeat of basically denying revenue from each other. Xbox fenced themselves into this corner on their own, it's not "fans fault" or "Sony's fault".

Xbox is most creative company out of big 3 currently.

We got Pentiment, Hellblade 2 etc along with Hifi Rush, Psychonauts 2 etc.

Its a farcry from Mario - Zelda template or cinematic 3rd person action adventure template.

Still there being uncompetitive has brought upon us ps5pro debacle. So not all is lost.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Xbox is most creative company out of big 3 currently.

We got Pentiment, Hellblade 2 etc along with Hifi Rush, Psychonauts 2 etc.

Its a farcry from Mario - Zelda template or cinematic 3rd person action adventure template.

Still there being uncompetitive has brought upon us ps5pro debacle. So not all is lost.

You spelt least wrong.

 

[rodrigolfp]

8K? Are people with a 4090 even attempting to utilize that?

Easily. Even I with a 3080 12GB can play 99,9% of games in 8k.

 

[BlackTron]

Xbox is most creative company out of big 3 currently.

We got Pentiment, Hellblade 2 etc along with Hifi Rush, Psychonauts 2 etc.

Its a farcry from Mario - Zelda template or cinematic 3rd person action adventure template.

Still there being uncompetitive has brought upon us ps5pro debacle. So not all is lost.

Art is subjective, so even if I wanted to be generous and say okay, fair enough that in your opinion, they're the most creative. Then there's another problem.

It's pretty obvious that when they have games that do strike, it's not because of some formula within Xbox for making great games. It's because they threw around money not made by their division to get the studio/game, which in most cases was already well in development when they stepped in. Then they can take all the credit for it as an "XSG game", then shut the studio/never make a sequel/fire all the staff.

If people have an opinion that Nintendo is doing something right, even if you personally don't agree, at least whatever it is they see in Nintendo, you can tell they have the capability to manufacture/package/sell it through whatever philosophy or pipelines they have, because it comes from within Nintendo. Why would you list Hi Fi Rush to prove Xbox is most creative, when they bought it from someone else then fired them? Are you saying Xbox management has the most creative games because they pick the most creative studios to suck the life out of before moving on like the aliens from ID4?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Art is subjective, so even if I wanted to be generous and say okay, fair enough that in your opinion, they're the most creative. Then there's another problem.

It's pretty obvious that when they have games that do strike, it's not because of some formula within Xbox for making great games. It's because they threw around money not made by their division to get the studio/game, which in most cases was already well in development when they stepped in. Then they can take all the credit for it as an "XSG game", then shut the studio/never make a sequel/fire all the staff.

If people have an opinion that Nintendo is doing something right, even if you personally don't agree, at least whatever it is they see in Nintendo, you can tell they have the capability to manufacture/package/sell it through whatever philosophy or pipelines they have, because it comes from within Nintendo. Why would you list Hi Fi Rush to prove Xbox is most creative, when they bought it from someone else then fired them? Are you saying Xbox management has the most creative games because they pick the most creative studios to suck the life out of before moving on like the aliens from ID4?

Nobody said this when Sony established their console hardware dominance with 3rd party games.

Double standard I say.

Again, doesn’t affect me. Be happy and pay $800 for pro and play at 840p i guess.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

8K? Are people with a 4090 even attempting to utilize that?

It's badass.

 

[UnrealEck]

I'm wondering how many modern fully 3D games will be doing 120 FPS if it's the same CPU.