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[Ripclawe]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm?postversion=2009100314

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.

In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.

The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

The issue doesn't get a lot of attention even as lawmakers debate how to pay for policy initiatives like health reform, whether to extend the Bush tax cuts and how to reduce the deficit.

The vast majority of households making up to $30,000 fall into the category, as do nearly half of all households making between $30,000 and $40,000.

As you move up the income scale the percentages drop.

Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax liability or negative liability as do 9% of households with incomes between $75,000 and $100,000.

Of course, income taxes don't tell the whole story. Workers are also subject to payroll taxes, which support Social Security and Medicare.

When considering federal income taxes in combination with payroll taxes, the percent of households with a net liability of zero or less is estimated to be 24% this year, according to the Tax Policy Center's estimates.

A key reason why there is a zero-liability group at all is because the U.S. tax system is progressive. Those who bring in more money pay more than those lower down the income scale to support government functions such as national defense and social safety nets like Medicaid for those in need. That progressivity can be dialed up or down.

"Some think it's too progressive. Some don't think it's progressive enough," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center.

President Obama falls into the latter camp. He has proposed increasing the income tax burden on families making more than $250,000 and individuals making more than $200,000, while offering new measures to reduce the tax bite for most Americans making less.

One of Obama's proposals is to extend the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts for everyone except high-income tax filers, which was the group that derived the most benefit from those cuts.

As a result, under Obama's budget, he would keep the ranks of the non-payers higher than they would otherwise be.
Why the tax-free matter

The question of who pays and who doesn't is not a trivial matter. But Washington policymakers are not dealing with it in an explicit way.

And that's a problem, given the country's fiscal outlook.

If asked to vote up or down on whether they are comfortable with such a large group of voters contributing no federal income tax or payroll tax revenue, the majority may well decide it is appropriate given the means of the households involved. Or they may decide that it's not.

Either way, that decision should inform the debate about the many costly policies and deficit-reduction strategies that lawmakers will be grappling with for years to come.

"As the number [of nonpayers] becomes larger, we have to question whether we'll make good decisions about how to allocate resources," economist George Zodrow, a professor at Rice University. "Most people don't understand how skewed the tax distribution is."

Experts say that to pay for all the things on the country's growing tab, the money can't just come from a shrunken pool of taxpayers.

"Over the long run, you'll have to have a broader base," Zodrow said. To top of page

 

[Evolved1]

But that's not really good though right... I mean... doesn't that mean something is seriously wrong?

 

[littleorphanfunk]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm?postversion=2009100314

but its the top 1% of americas job to foot 50% of the bill.

lol

what pisses me off more than anything is when people pay no income taxes and yet still get tax returns because of EITC at the end of the year. why work when i can have 6 kids and get 20 grand tax free every year

 

[kai3345]

This is bullshit

 

[ElectricBlue187]

But that's not really good though right... I mean... doesn't that mean something is seriously wrong?

It means 24 percent are too poor to make a meaningful contribution

 

[zoku88]

but its the top 1% of americas job to foot 50% of the bill.

lol

what pisses me off more than anything is when people pay no income taxes and yet still get tax returns because of EITC at the end of the year. why work when i can have 6 kids and get 20 grand tax free every year

20 grand for 7 ppl is actually pretty bad.

And this number seems to high. 24% don't pay taxes of any kind? That's like, an unhealthy amount of poorness.

And it seems odd that ppl making 75K-100K can ever get into a situation to never pay income tax. That only makes it kind of suspect.

 

[cntr]

but its the top 1% of americas job to foot 50% of the bill.

lol

what pisses me off more than anything is when people pay no income taxes and yet still get tax returns because of EITC at the end of the year. why work when i can have 6 kids and get 20 grand tax free every year

poverty and starvation are perfectly fine amirite

 

[littleorphanfunk]

^ 20 grand for 7 ppl is actually pretty bad.

not for free money given to somebody.

 

[polyh3dron]

but its the top 1% of americas job to foot 50% of the bill.

lol

what pisses me off more than anything is when people pay no income taxes and yet still get tax returns because of EITC at the end of the year. why work when i can have 6 kids and get 20 grand tax free every year

Capital Gains say hi. Ever heard Warren Buffett talk about how he pays less in taxes than his secretary does?

 

[cntr]

not for free money given to somebody.

You misunderstood what he said.

 

[littleorphanfunk]

poverty and starvation are perfectly fine amirite

so where is the incentive to work again?

 

[zoku88]

not for free money given to somebody.

Id' rather give ppl "free" money than live in an unstable society, which is often the case where poor ppl receive very little help and the gap between the rich and the poor becomes insanely big...

But that's just me.

 

[littleorphanfunk]

Capital Gains say hi. Ever heard Warren Buffett talk about how he pays less in taxes than his secretary does?

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

 

[littleorphanfunk]

Id' rather give ppl "free" money than live in an unstable society, which is often the case where poor ppl receive very little help and the gap between the rich and the poor becomes insanely big...

But that's just me.

and people are more charitable if its not taken from them

 

[DoomGyver]

ITT the wealthy cry because they lose out on a little spending money for the good of the country.

 

[zoku88]

and people are more charitable if its not taken from them

Well, I suppose that's true depending on the amount taken. But I'd rather not count on masses of people doing the "right thing." Hasn't really worked well in the past.

 

[CharlieDigital]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 12% to 17% living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time, and roughly 40% falling below the poverty line at some point within a 10 year time span.[2]​

Me? My wife and I make over 4x the median household income in the US and we're in the top 5% of all wage earners. I have no complaints about my income tax...though I'm a bit down on my property taxes.

When you consider how poor some families are, I can't even imagine asking them to pay federal income taxes given that some months, they can barely scrape by and put food on the table.

 

[quilter46761]

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

So?

 

[Keylime]

why work when i can have 6 kids and get 20 grand tax free every year

Probably because you can't raise 6 kids off of 20 grand a year and you'll have them all taken away from you...and then you won't get your 20 grand a year anymore...and your life will suck dicks.

 

[littleorphanfunk]

youd also count on an equal number of masses to be willing to work too right

its not just the wealthy. anybody who earns a paycheck should be angered at teh social redistribution of wealth that occurs in teh US. you bust your ass at your job and get paid, why cant a person living off the system (excluding the hadicapped)

 

[Stinkles]

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

That's the responsibility that comes with living in a country that allows them to do that, own an estate in the Hamptons and have several Lamborghinis while people like you defend them as victims.

Some of them are nice people who on top of that, can afford to give massive amounts to charity that aren't part of a carefully structured deduction.

Some of them are douchebags with twenty illegal immigrants on minimum wage taking care of their extensive properties.

Meanwhile they often pay a lower percentage of said massive income than middle class folks.

It's the shittiest argument ever and you should be ashamed of typing it. If you're in the top 1%, it's not a burden, it's a privilege.

 

[zoku88]

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

You see that as "the wealthy pay too much"

Sane people see that as "holy crap, why is the gap getting bigger!"

 

[Evolved1]

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

How about the fact that the top 2% of the world's population own over 50% of the global wealth? And 50% of the world's population account for less than 2% of that wealth?

How does that sit with you? You good with that? Must be a bunch of lazy bums... only possible explanation.

 

[bionic77]

but its the top 1% of americas job to foot 50% of the bill.

I believe they also have like 90% of the wealth too. Sounds like a good deal to me.

That is the problem with this country today, no one really cares about the billionaires and millionaires anymore.

 

[Stinkles]

youd also count on an equal number of masses to be willing to work too right

its not just the wealthy. anybody who earns a paycheck should be angered at teh social redistribution of wealth that occurs in teh US. you bust your ass at your job and get paid, why cant a person living off the system (excluding the hadicapped)

It gets redistributed upwards if you pay careful attention to the percentage you quoted. Jesus.

Why is there an endless stream of fuckwads like Joe the Plumber working hard to defend the wealth of billionaires, as if there's some threat of it going away?

 

[littleorphanfunk]

Probably because you can't raise 6 kids off of 20 grand a year and you'll have them all taken away from you...and then you won't get your 20 grand a year anymore...and your life will suck dicks.

bullshit, government housing and food stamps cover living and food.

20 grand is just money givin to you for popping out babies at the end of every year. its called the earned income tax credit

when i worked at a banki made 30k a year before taxes, so closer to 20k after everything was taken out. there were people who had no job, contributed to no federal taxes and had returns of over 15k because of earned income tax credit. i have personally seen this

 

[Jonm1010]

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

They also pull in 49.7% of the total wages. So whats your point?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

The top 1% also have most of the money in the country.

 

[littleorphanfunk]

and here comes liberal gaf acting as if only half the country should be burdoned with 100% of the debt.

 

[zoku88]

bullshit, government housing and food stamps cover living and food.

20 grand is just money givin to you for popping out babies at the end of every year. its called the earned income tax credit

when i worked at a banki made 30k a year before taxes, so closer to 20k after everything was taken out. there were people who had no job, contributed to no federal taxes and had returns of over 15k because of earned income tax credit. i have personally seen this

You didn't even counter anything. You haven't really even personally seen anything.

Have you actually "seen" a family of 6 on 20K a year? Like, observed them? The meals they eat? Their house (or, I guess, most likely apt.)?

Anyway, have you ever heard the phrase: "the riches of the rich are made with the blood of the poor" or something like that? Ponder it.

 

[soul creator]

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm#Backwelfarequeen

 

[Gallbaro]

yes, and its fact that the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax burden of the country.

Doesn't that more speak towards a broken economy rather than a flawed tax system.

That far to much wealth is localized at the top 1%, and that really disrupts the idea of the invisible hand because purchasing power and hence the benefits of capitalism is not located with the majority of the population.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

youd also count on an equal number of masses to be willing to work too right

its not just the wealthy. anybody who earns a paycheck should be angered at teh social redistribution of wealth that occurs in teh US. you bust your ass at your job and get paid, why cant a person living off the system (excluding the hadicapped)

This sounds like somebody who desperately hates to work projecting on others. Go ahead, give your job to an unemployed person, they will appreciate it more. The welfare rolls are waiting for you.

 

[Raistlin]

This is bullshit

.

 

[quilter46761]

bullshit, government housing and food stamps cover living and food.

20 grand is just money givin to you for popping out babies at the end of every year. its called the earned income tax credit

when i worked at a banki made 30k a year before taxes, so closer to 20k after everything was taken out. there were people who had no job, contributed to no federal taxes and had returns of over 15k because of earned income tax credit. i have personally seen this

So hey, let's just go back to 1913 and kill the sixteenth amendment, right?

It would be almost cosmically funny to watch our system fall apart from a flat tax.

 

[Seth C]

but its the top 1% of americas job to foot 50% of the bill.

lol

what pisses me off more than anything is when people pay no income taxes and yet still get tax returns because of EITC at the end of the year. why work when i can have 6 kids and get 20 grand tax free every year

Well considering the top 1% hoards about 90% of the money, why shouldn't it be? I mean, if they would like to give their employees a reasonable wage they would owe less and their employees would owe more in taxes.

But they don't do that, do they? So they clearly prefer to keep it as it is.

20 grand for 7 ppl is actually pretty bad.

And this number seems to high. 24% don't pay taxes of any kind? That's like, an unhealthy amount of poorness.

And it seems odd that ppl making 75K-100K can ever get into a situation to never pay income tax. That only makes it kind of suspect.

People making 75K-100K and not having to pay taxes are likely self employed and finding many, many ways to scam the government with legal but realistically undeserved tax write-offs.

 

[Evolved1]

It gets redistributed upwards if you pay careful attention to the percentage you quoted. Jesus.

Why is there an endless stream of fuckwads like Joe the Plumber working hard to defend the wealth of billionaires, as if there's some threat of it going away?

It's because they think they are going to be there some day. One day it will be them. It's delusions of grandeur coupled with misguided ideology... and a serious fucking disconnection from reality.

 

[littleorphanfunk]

You didn't even counter anything. You haven't really even personally seen anything.

Have you actually "seen" a family of 6 on 20K a year? Like, observed them? The meals they eat? Their house (or, I guess, most likely apt.)?

listen 20k is not the only benefit they receive. thats a tax return because they could pop out kids


thats excluding welfare, fod stamps, government housing they receive in addition to that

 

[zoku88]

listen 20k is not the only benefit they receive. thats a tax return because they could pop out kids


thats excluding welfare, fod stamps, government housing they receive in addition to that

You still haven't answered any of the questions...

And here's another question: if their lives are so dandy, why don't you live like that? It's logical, afterall. If someone is making out like a bandit with very little work and in easily repeatable steps, almost no one should feel incentive to do otherwise. Afterall, that's illogical.

 

[Evolved1]

listen 20k is not the only benefit they receive. thats a tax return because they could pop out kids


thats excluding welfare, fod stamps, government housing they receive in addition to that

You are so full of shit.

 

[JayDubya]

Too bad it's not 100%.

In the meantime, yeah, downright disturbing.

 

[Stinkles]

and here comes liberal gaf acting as if only half the country should be burdoned with 100% of the debt.

Here comes mathematical fact gaf, to show how stupid you are. When it comes to Math.

I can't believe you used to work in a bank.

 

[teh_pwn]

They also pull in 49.7% of the total wages. So whats your point?

And talking about the income tax of the top 1% is about as relevant as talking about sales tax. Wealthy people make money on investments. Investments cash out under Capital Gains tax at 15%. They pay less as a percentage of their income than the middle class.

 

[Jonm1010]

bullshit, government housing and food stamps cover living and food.

20 grand is just money givin to you for popping out babies at the end of every year. its called the earned income tax credit

when i worked at a banki made 30k a year before taxes, so closer to 20k after everything was taken out. there were people who had no job, contributed to no federal taxes and had returns of over 15k because of earned income tax credit. i have personally seen this

So because you can point out(or better yet paint a caricature) of potential abuse in the system we should disband the entire system? Punish the majority who dont abuse the system because of the abuse of the minority?

Not to mention the EITC is more beneficial if you have some income coming in. It actually does incentivize work. Up to a certain point. The shit your talking about, the abuse, is concentrated at the 1000 dollar a month threshold where there is arguably a disincentive to earn more because you get put into a phase out bracket.

Thats an argument for reform not disbandment.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

You still haven't answered any of the questions...

And here's another question: if their lives are so dandy, why don't you live like that? It's logical, afterall. If someone is making out like a bandit with very little work and in easily repeatable steps, almost no one should feel incentive to do otherwise. Afterall, that's illogical.

unlike some of you, he works for a living and doesn't have hours upon end to answer your trivial questions

 

[littleorphanfunk]

You are so full of shit.

work in a bank, in a poorer area around tax return season and come back and talk

 

[bionic77]

:lol @ the idea that people who are poor enough that they don't have to pay taxes and actually receive money back are in some sort of cushy situation.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

listen 20k is not the only benefit they receive. thats a tax return because they could pop out kids


thats excluding welfare, fod stamps, government housing they receive in addition to that

tax returns are counted against government assistance. Anyone getting $20K in returns is gonna be hard pressed to be eligible for those kinds of government programs.

don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people that live off of the government in the way you are describing, but it is a pretty fucking miserable life to you and me, and most live that way because either A)they are broke and have no other choice or B) they are fucking lazy and don't care.

 

[CharlieDigital]

I really don't get it.

It seems like a pretty simple equation to me.

The folks who make the most money also tend to, indirectly, use the most resources. As such, they should pay more taxes.

They should contribute more to national defense. Why? Because they have more to defend. More assets. More properties. More money. More enterprises.

They should contribute more to education. Why? Because they need a skilled and educated workforce to find employees from.

They should contribute more to public safety. Why? Because they have more to protect and it's to their advantage to help keep the peace since it's generally good for the workers that they need for their offices and factories and warehouses and retail stores and what not.

They should contribute more to infrastructure. Why? Because their enterprises use the infrastructure more and contribute more to wear.

The U.S. asks so little of its citizens. You are born here and you're a citizen. BAM! Just like that. No compulsory military service. Just a relatively small percentage of your income in exchange for the relative peace and safety that we live in. A few thousand dollars a year in exchange for an environment that allows enterprises to flourish and innovation.

What's the big deal?

 

[Jonm1010]

and here comes liberal gaf acting as if only half the country should be burdoned with 100% of the debt.

You mean the part of GAF that is inundating you with pesky facts and descriptions of how and why things actually work the way they do? I know, it is rather annoying to have to deal ith when you rather live in a fantasy land where the rich are the poor and those who use EITCs are all a bunch of welfare nannies popping out kids o they can remain lazy and unproductive.