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[The Faceless Master]

So someone making 19k a year should pay the same in taxes as the billionaires of the country?

That's fucked up, man.

why should how much they make matter? are they less of a man?

 

[Princess Carl]

why should how much they make matter? are they less of a man?

a man makes 1 million dollars and spends 500,000 of it. he now has 500,000 dollars extra.

another man only makes 19k and has to spend 18k of it. Now he has only 1000 dollars extra.

You see where i am going with this?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Yo littleorphanfunk I'm really happy you think the rich should get richer and imma let you finish but The Faceless Master has the worst economic policies of all time!


All time.

 

[typhonsentra]

I really envy those poor Lucky Ducky's who don't earn enough to pay taxes. Welfare, food stamps, free clinics, breadlines. The list goes on and on! They have no idea how good they have it.

 

[The Faceless Master]

a man makes 1 million dollars and spends 500,000 of it. he now has 500,000 dollars extra.

another man only makes 19k and has to spend 18k of it. Now he has only 1000 dollars extra.

You see where i am going with this?

sounds like the second man should work harder, or get a better education.

 

[Stinkles]

a man makes 1 million dollars and spends 500,000 of it. he now has 500,000 dollars extra.

another man only makes 19k and has to spend 18k of it. Now he has only 1000 dollars extra.

You see where i am going with this?

I have to admit, I am confused.

 

[quilter46761]

why should how much they make matter? are they less of a man?

How much would $3800 affect you if you were making $19,000?

How much would $38,000 affect you if you were making $190,000?

How 'bout $380,000 if you were making $1.9 million?

Twenty percent matters far, far more when it leaves you with $15,200 than with $1.52 million.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Same percentage, yes, if we're going to be taxing a percentage of income as a means of taxation.

A compromise might be to not tax below a certain level of income (much like Friedman's NIT), but setting that level where 47% pay nothing is downright obscenity.

why should i pay twice as much as someone who makes 26k? do i use the roads twice as much? call the cops twice as much? it should be a flat value, not a flat %, a flat % is ridiculous and unfair to hard workers!

 

[Princess Carl]

sounds like the second man should work harder, or get a better education.

how can he pay for a better education when he has no money?

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Progressive tax rates make sense because the more powerful you get, the more you should contribute.

If a filthy poor loses his house, nobody really cares and losing said house doesn't impact the country much. If Warren Buffett makes a few poor investment decisions and has to sell off a lot of holdings where thousands of people lose their jobs as well as stability for the employees remain, that is a huge impact on the country. Guys like Buffett and Gates have exponentially greater influence than a single mother in the country. It only makes sense that they should contribute the greatest to the infrastructure.

 

[speculawyer]

You might want to check your history about what America was built on.

History? The past is just a big mystery to them. Just ask them about evolution.

 

[Dega]

sounds like the second man should work harder, or get a better education.

Please tell me you aren't that incredibly ignorant.

 

[Foxtastical]

Really knowing someone in the top 1% gives more perspective on the rich than the usual stuff I read on the Internet.

Seriously, the top 1% are much, much more charitable than you'd ever guess.

 

[DoomGyver]

I have to admit, I am confused.

He's talking about Faceless's plan that everyone should pay the same amount of taxes.

Faceless I'm curious, what class are you in?

 

[The Faceless Master]

How much would $3800 affect you if you were making $19,000?

How much would $38,000 affect you if you were making $190,000?

How 'bout $380,000 if you were making $1.9 million?

Twenty percent matters far, far more when it leaves you with $15,200 than with $1.52 million.

i'm not the one saying a flat %.

 

[bill0527]

The problem is is that most of the top 1% of the wealthy have achieved so through illegal means.

This is about as stupid of a statement as saying that all poor people are poor - because they choose to be and are too lazy to do anything to improve their situation.

 

[Princess Carl]

I have to admit, I am confused.

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[demon]

sounds like the second man should work harder, or get a better education.

If only all the people making 25k a year put in those extra hours at the office or pulled a few more all-nighters in college, they would be billionaires.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Morality

That's exactly what's wrong with America. We live in an age where the government legislates morality, and some people still have the balls to call this a free country.

and an understanding of how Capitalism works

Oh, I wait on tenterhooks to hear this one. Please, elaborate on this mythical version of "Capitalism" where state redistribution of money exists as a crucial support to the economy.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Social redistribution of wealth? you fuckin kidding me? As someone who grew up on welfare you know how unbelievably hard a lifestyle and embarrassing it is to receive public assistance?

the social stigma of 'lol food stamps' doesn't seem to stop some people from depending on them...

 

[Jonm1010]

Except for my facts come from www.irs.gov, not from some buddy at work or some internet gaming forum.

What do you do for a living? Because I prepare tax returns for low income individuals. I see and experience this complete and utter clusterfuck on a daily basis. I see people that falsely claim the perfect amount of money and kids to get the maximum amount of EITC on a regular basis. If I don't do my job right, I could be severely fined or imprisoned for some jackoff trying to screw the government and taxpayers just to get a few grand.

Stating the facts does not mean I agree with the principles behind them.

Lol. You probably should have gandered at my other posts before getting so defensive and worked up.

 

[Evolved1]

i'm not the one saying a flat %.

No what you're advocating is even more absurd. Apparently you have no grasp of the current disparity of wealth? You could take every cent the bottom half of the population will ever make and still not meet the requirements you'd impose by just "splitting the difference".

It's fucking retarded.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

how can he pay for a better education when he has no money?

I can vouch for that.

Hard to get a better education working a minimum wage job. :|

I tried Junior College a few years back when I was slinging stock in a Target store room during the initial economic nose dive after having been laid off from my IT job. Simply couldn't swing school costs on top of living costs with no financial aid / assistance, which I did look into.

Now I look back on all the college graduates slinging stock in that store room with me and question the worth of a College Degree. Additionally I shake my head in disgust when NPR laments America's lack of mathematical brain power, when my sister who is a math whiz has a teaching degree; but can't find fuckin' work outside of K-Mart.

She would go back to school, but unfortunately she's looking at filing for bankruptcy.

Ugh. . .

Just pray you're born into a wealthy family in your next life.

 

[Princess Carl]

This is about as stupid of a statement as saying that all poor people are poor - because they choose to be and are too lazy to do anything to improve their situation.

ok ill rephrase that. Most of the richest of the rich are a bunch of criminals that are getting away with illegal activities because of their wealth.

(see the ceos of the top companies skipping out on income taxes and getting govenment money only to get bigger bonuses while laying off more employees.)

(see also the top ceos that now work for the government and directly influence how much the richest of the rich get taxed through their wealth)

 

[quilter46761]

i'm not the one saying a flat %.

why should how much they make matter? are they less of a man?

Err... Did I misunderstand?

Whatever. Progressive rate system works for me.

 

[speculawyer]

And for the poorer members of the country (not talking about the "abusers"), you would prefer them not to get any kind of assistance? At all?

Not looking for an argument, just trying to understand your position.

He is pretty content with poor people dying in the street due to starvation and/or lack of healthcare.

 

[giga]

i'm not the one saying a flat %.

What are you saying then?

 

[Foxtastical]

whatev

 

[Stinkles]

That's exactly what's wrong with America. We live in an age where the government legislates morality, and some people still have the balls to call this a free country.



Oh, I wait on tenterhooks to hear this one. Please, elaborate on this mythical version of "Capitalism" where state redistribution of money exists as a crucial support to the economy.

Sorry, I thought you were serious!

 

[Princess Carl]

the top 1% are also responsible to using their influence in the government to abolish the regulations in place that kept greedy asshole motherfuckers like them from abusing the system and making money off it. (housing crisis, mortgage fraud caused by the banks themselves) yay unregulated capitalism amirite?

 

[Dega]

whatev

:lol

You had every right to feel that way.

 

[Princess Carl]

That's exactly what's wrong with America. We live in an age where the government legislates morality, and some people still have the balls to call this a free country.



Oh, I wait on tenterhooks to hear this one. Please, elaborate on this mythical version of "Capitalism" where state redistribution of money exists as a crucial support to the economy.

:lol :lol :lol oh man! are you serious?

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Sorry, I thought you were serious!

That's not an argument. I win.

EDIT:

:lol :lol :lol oh man! are you serious?

Oho, three smilies. I can see I've got my work cut out for me.

 

[Stinkles]

:lol :lol :lol oh man! are you serious?

Of course not. But my sarcasm meter didn't detect his subtle homage to both David Hume and A Modest Proposal either.

 

[bill0527]

ok ill rephrase that. Most of the richest of the rich are a bunch of criminals that are getting away with illegal activities because of their wealth.

(see the ceos of the top companies skipping out on income taxes and getting govenment money only to get bigger bonuses while laying off more employees.)

(see also the top ceos that now work for the government and directly influence how much the richest of the rich get taxed through their wealth)

You're still being ridiculous.

What you're saying doesn't even make any logical sense.

If the top 1% of people are all crooks who are not paying their taxes... then who the hell is paying taxes in this country? Its well documented everywhere from the IRS to to CBO that the top 1% pay most of the taxes in this country.

I realize that jumping all over 'rich corporations' and labelling all of them as crooks and cheaters gives a certain political party a giant throbbing hard-on, but its still nothing more than a shitty generalization.

That's not to say that there aren't people at the top working the system and cheating, but its not different than poor people doing it, which is the whole point of this thread. Human beings by nature will sometimes look to get their best advantage regardless of the consequences and regardless of how it affects anyone else, and this human trait can be found in both rich people and poor people.

 

[Evolved1]

That's exactly what's wrong with America. We live in an age where the government legislates morality, and some people still have the balls to call this a free country.

If you think the alternative would lead to greater freedom I wonder if you've really thought it through.

 

[Toby]

I wonder if, by the time I get to the age I can collect social security, it will still be there.

Spoiler

But seriously, I think we need to raise taxes if we ever plan to get rid of the national debt

 

[Princess Carl]

See, this is what i dont understand.

If i was extremely wealthy, and i was taxed for a certain percentage of my earnings; which while high, did not affect my ability to live comfortably in any way whatsoever; and this money went into imporving the livelyhood and staus of Every American and America as a country , why would i oppose this?

It doesnt make any sense.

 

[The Faceless Master]

No what you're advocating is even more absurd. Apparently you have no grasp of the current disparity of wealth? You could take every cent the bottom half of the population will ever make and still not meet the requirements you'd impose by just "splitting the difference".

It's fucking retarded.

people do it at dinner all the time, it's not really a hard thing to figure out.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

If you think the alternative would lead to greater freedom I wonder if you've really thought it through.

The alternative to legislating morality would be not legislating morality. Yes, that would lead to more freedom. Done.

All my liberal friends are quick to denounce the big bad government for making marijuana illegal (it's our body, man!) or limiting the rights of homosexuals (it's not a choice, man!), but when the focus is shifted from social issues to economic issues they have no qualms with the government getting in the way.

See, this is what i dont understand.

If i was extremely wealthy, and i was taxed for a certain percentage of my earnings; which while high, did not affect my ability to live comfortably in any way whatsoever; and this money went into imporving the livelyhood and staus of Every American and America as a country , why would i oppose this?

It doesnt make any sense.

BECAUSE IT'S YOUR FUCKING MONEY, Jesus Christ. It's the principal of the matter. Many wealthy people would continue to make charitable donations because most humans are good. Some would choose to hoard every cent and give away nothing, which is also okay, although a little dickish.

 

[JayDubya]

But seriously, I think we need to raise taxes if we ever plan to get rid of the national debt

Actually, we can heavily reduce tax revenues and still eliminate the debt in a decade.

 

[Stinkles]

The alternative to legislating morality would be not legislating morality. Yes, that would lead to more freedom. Done.

All my liberal friends are quick to denounce the big bad government for making marijuana illegal (it's our body, man!) or limiting the rights of homosexuals (it's not a choice, man!), but when the focus is shifted from social issues to economic issues they have no qualms with the government getting in the way.

The reason you can't name a first world democracy without a taxation system is that there isn't one.

When you can name one, I will read about it and see if it sounds like a good idea.

 

[Princess Carl]

You're still being ridiculous.

What you're saying doesn't even make any logical sense.

If the top 1% of people are all crooks who are not paying their taxes... then who the hell is paying taxes in this country? Its well documented everywhere from the IRS to to CBO that the top 1% pay most of the taxes in this country.

I realize that jumping all over 'rich corporations' and labelling all of them as crooks and cheaters gives a certain political party a giant throbbing hard-on, but its still nothing more than a shitty generalization.

That's not to say that there aren't people at the top working the system and cheating, but its not different than poor people doing it, which is the whole point of this thread. Human beings by nature will sometimes look to get their best advantage regardless of the consequences and regardless of how it affects anyone else, and this human trait can be found in both rich people and poor people.

the problem with that argument though while there are two sides to every story, the is a bigger responsibilty and obligation to regulate the top 1% then the bottom.

Given the current distribution of wealth in the country:
say 20 times more people on the bottom took advantage income tax and gained at most 5000 dollars more than they should have then the top 1%

The top 1% will still account for an unfathomable amount more lost than the bottom of the income pool.

Both sides have their bad people, but theres a bigger responsibility to regulate the top 1%

 

[Princess Carl]

The alternative to legislating morality would be not legislating morality. Yes, that would lead to more freedom. Done.

All my liberal friends are quick to denounce the big bad government for making marijuana illegal (it's our body, man!) or limiting the rights of homosexuals (it's not a choice, man!), but when the focus is shifted from social issues to economic issues they have no qualms with the government getting in the way.



BECAUSE IT'S YOUR FUCKING MONEY, Jesus Christ. It's the principal of the matter. Many wealthy people would continue to make charitable donations because most humans are good. Some would choose to hoard every cent and give away nothing, which is also okay, although a little dickish.

Thats extremely dickish and which is why there are taxes to keep people like that from hoarding their money for no goddam reason. America gave you the opportunity to be that wealthy, time to give some back for the good of the country bitch.

And fyi, charitable donations dont mean shit imo. Most of the time the money doesnt go where its supposed to go. That should not be a substitute for government taxation.

 

[Toby]

Actually, we can heavily reduce tax revenues and still eliminate the debt in a decade.

Genuinely curious, how?

All the documentaries and information I had seen has painted it as a looming catastrophe that only worsens when you add the fact that the next generation retiring will heap a lot more costs on to it with health care costs and social security collection.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

The reason you can't name a first world democracy without a taxation system is that there isn't one.

When you can name one, I will read about it and see if it sounds like a good idea.

Whoa, who said anything about all taxes being evil? Not me. You know, there was a time when income tax didn't exist and America kept on chuggin'.

One should also consider the vast amount of superfluous bullshit our government collects taxes for before rushing to the defense of the IRS.

 

[shintoki]

I think it's all bullshit:lol

How companies can magically bullshit into No Tax
How the very top % has something like 40-50% the amount of wealth given their %
How poor families can trout their misfortune while they have 4 or 5 kids, paying no taxes, Don't even attempt to work, and say they demand more.

I was going through CNN earlier and saw about a Clinic in Atlanta closing. Medical one that served a large amount of illegal immigrants. Where a family openly attempted they will be exploiting the federal law that ERs can not turn away people regardless of citizenship or money to get the medicine they need. And then having the audacity to say how the US shouldn't be allowed to deport them. At the same time, filing charges against the hospital that is going out of business(Because they are millions in debt). And trying to force them to stay open for an extra few months so the patients can continue to "transfer". The Hospital even gave their patients money to continue their treatment elsewhere. And it's was like everything wrong with the US healthcare system to begin with. :lol

 

[Stinkles]

Whoa, who said anything about all taxes being evil? Not me. You know, there was a time when income tax didn't exist and America kept on chuggin'.

One should also consider the vast amount of superfluous bullshit our government collects taxes for before rushing to the defense of the IRS.

Who's defending the IRS? The IRS is a bloated, corpulent mess that has been deliberately evolved to benefit the top 1% we're complaining about. The IRS code is effectively a set of complex tax cheats for the wealthiest. Who apparently can't even abide to use that shortcut half the time.

 

[Gallbaro]

people do it at dinner all the time, it's not really a hard thing to figure out.

Well an easier way to get to that end would just be to privatize every single function of government, because your talking fees and not taxes. And the permanent ruling class will be glorious!

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Who's defending the IRS? The IRS is a bloated, corpulent mess that has been deliberately evolved to benefit the top 1% we're complaining about. The IRS code is effectively a set of complex tax cheats for the wealthiest. Who apparently can't even abide to use that shortcut half the time.

Preachin' to the choir.

Well an easier way to get to that end would just be to privatize every single function of government, because your talking fees and not taxes. And the permanent ruling class will be glorious!

You know, I had a friend who assumed that the moment marijuana was legalized, everyone on Earth would get high and productive society would cease to exist. You remind me of him.