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4K UHD/Blu-ray/DVD Community Thread: Bringing the Theater Home!
- Thread starter KDash31987
- Start date
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm gonna call you picky - the difference between 1080p BD and 2k DCP isn't all that big (in some cases its negligible at worst), and considering most home theater screens are decidedly smaller than even the smallest house at a multiplex, so long as you're working with a good projector (which you can get for SHOCKINGLY low prices) the image you get from a well transferred blu-ray should be flat-out amazing, and in many cases (depending on the projection at your local theater) comparable, if not outright better in terms of contrast/color.
And yeah, a whole lot of 4K UHD films are going to be 2K upscales because a whole lot of films in the last 20-30 years have been finished at 2K res.
But as has been pointed out already, the real benefit of UHD isn't even the resolution bump, but the dynamic range increase.
I'll be riding out BD until it craters, and by then my 1080p Sony Projector will probably be due for that upgrade, and that's when I'll likely jump on the 4k train. Just depends on how long (or short) that timeline runs.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Star Trek into darkness IMAX shots look phenomenal.
edit: this thread is nice but i use all of my 4k info at this place - AVS FORUM
just a sample of what this guy does! i thank him very much!!! (dolby vision is the hdr format whereVUDU next to the movies, so this copy/pasta isnt showing the whole picture of what info he has gathered)
and ...
Prayer hands jpg
edit: this thread is nice but i use all of my 4k info at this place - AVS FORUM
just a sample of what this guy does! i thank him very much!!! (dolby vision is the hdr format whereVUDU next to the movies, so this copy/pasta isnt showing the whole picture of what info he has gathered)
and ...
Prayer hands jpg
Right here
Bought the Kong and GiTS 4K steelbooks, both of which are gorgeous
The Homecoming steelbook is also on pre-order, because hot damn that cover is tasty
hikarutilmitt
Member
IIRC there were a handful of UHD Blu-rays put out early on in the cycle that didn't have HDR or at least didn't advertise it as a feature. I'm pretty sure it's the latter since I can't seem to find anything supporting the former.
Useful link: http://realorfake4k.com/list/
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Is "Real 4K" meaning it was filmed at a res at or higher than 4k, and finished at 4k as well?
Also, I just dug around a little and it seems like the number of THEATRICAL projectors putting out a 4K image were, around 2014, less than 30%? I might be misreading that, but it seemed to be the case (Sony's was leading Texas Instruments by quite a bit at 4K capabilities, but I believe TI has more projectors in more theaters)
hikarutilmitt
Member
Clean the drive maybe? I know on about 2 updates ago the system wasn't the best at loading some menus and such, but the blu-ray app is much much better than it used to be. That or you've got something on the system downloading/updating and its eating some cycles while you watch your movie.
Yeah. The site goes over it but Real 4k means it was shot at 4k+ or was scanned that way off film, whether any VFX were rendered at 2k or not. Fake is pretty much always upscaled.
Sad to see GOTG2 is on the fake list, though.
The Elite
BOSS
According to that site:
That's for Dunkirk. I have seen them refer to some as mixed if it was shot in 4k but the effects are 2k.
Marty Chinn
Member
Projector
depends on how big you want to go. If dont want to go too big just get a tv. If you want to go 100" or bigger get a projector.
If it were me for a basement i would do a projector.
The problem is 4k projectors are very expensive right now.
There are a few UHD BDs that don't have HDR. One example from my collection is the German release of Texas Chainsaw Massacre
I've always been a proponent and collector of physical media for movies, and I've always wanted the best quality available. This has led me from DVD to HD-DVD and Blu-ray and now to UHD 4K.
I thought about getting an Xbox Slim, but I'm just as picky about sound, and the limitations of the slim made it a no go. Instead I waited and bought the Oppo 203 as soon as it went on sale in late December 2016. I know a lot of people will balk at the price tag, but it is bar none the best UHD Blu-ray player on the planet.
My UHD collection isn't huge, but so far I own:
The Accountant
Arrival
Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them
Ghost in the Shell
Ghostbusters (2016)
John Wick Chapter 2
Kong Skull Island
Logan
Lucy
Mad Max Fury Road
The Magnificent Seven
Pacific Rim
Planet Earth II
Star Trek Beyond
Warcraft
X-Men Apocalypse
The resolution boost is nice, but even on large screens it's usually not a huge difference (nowhere near the leap from DVD to Blu-ray). HDR is where UHD really shines.
I thought about getting an Xbox Slim, but I'm just as picky about sound, and the limitations of the slim made it a no go. Instead I waited and bought the Oppo 203 as soon as it went on sale in late December 2016. I know a lot of people will balk at the price tag, but it is bar none the best UHD Blu-ray player on the planet.
My UHD collection isn't huge, but so far I own:
The Accountant
Arrival
Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them
Ghost in the Shell
Ghostbusters (2016)
John Wick Chapter 2
Kong Skull Island
Logan
Lucy
Mad Max Fury Road
The Magnificent Seven
Pacific Rim
Planet Earth II
Star Trek Beyond
Warcraft
X-Men Apocalypse
The resolution boost is nice, but even on large screens it's usually not a huge difference (nowhere near the leap from DVD to Blu-ray). HDR is where UHD really shines.
Isn't Sony the only one with consumer 4K (native res) projectors currently? And yeah, they're all in the 5 figure range I think.
Beer Monkey
Member
With most movies, if the effects are in 2k, the entire film is in 2k because of workflow. Shot with 4k cameras means nothing. Most movies with 2k effects are mastered to a 2k Digital Intermediate.
Of course, pixel counts are kind of dumb anyway (see the videos I posted earlier), as there's much more that affects actual spacial resolution of the finished film/video.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
What? Hardly. That movie was shot with Red's 8k cameras with a 4k DI. It could hardly be any less fake for the live action scenes, at least.Sad to see GOTG2 is on the fake list, though.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
woah GOTG2 UHD isn't Dolby Vision after all? What a buzz kill
High five! Same player, but have an E6. GotG2 will def be my next purchase. Will it have Dolby Vision or HDR10?
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
it's officially announced as HDR10 only on the disc, Disney couldn't get the Dolby Vision encode done in time for the disc.
VUDU has the Dolby Vision version.
Also the only GOTG2 version with the IMAX aspect ratio scenes presented in full frame is the 3D Blu-Ray.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This should basically be the jstevenson thread for maximum informational efficiency.
That's a bummer, but thankfully I have the bandwidth to stream it.
Sucks that they aren't bundling 3D with the UHD. I can't justify double dipping on this movie. Terminator 2 is being done the same way.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
oh god I've earned a reputation.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
oh but they are (only at Best Buy) and if the digital code works with VUDU (it in theory should... thru Disney Movies Anywhere) - you then have the streaming 4k Dolby Vision version, the higher bitrate disc-based 4K HDR10 version, and the 3D 2K Version with the IMAX sequences...:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/guardia...u-ray-blu-ray-3d-2017/5904801.p?skuId=5904801
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Some are better than others.
You've got one of the good ones.
You've got one of the good ones.
You're better than google! Thanks dude!
No it isn't.
Fuck, it's not even mandatory for a UHD blu-ray to be in colour, for obvious reasons.
Nor is it mandatory for a UHD Blu-ray player to be capable of HDR output.
Literally the only thing that's mandatory is that the player has to be able to read an HDR stream of the appropriate format without crashing.
Unaha-Closp
Member
I have a 4K TV and just recently bought a XBox One S so thought I had better get a UHD Movie but I'll be damned if any of them available, in my Country at least, are films I want to watch. Must be a film snob I guess lol The films I would watch I have seen already. Luckily I have not seen the new Spiderman or Dunkirk so I suppose I had better wait until they come out. Wonder Woman too.
And also many many movies were shot in a way that there isn't 4k of detail no matter what
I mean Stargate doesn't even have 1080p of detail most of the time
I stand corrected. I thought the BDA mandated HDR10 for UHD Blu Ray discs last year. I don't think I'd buy any UHD disc without HDR tbh.
Same here. Might as well buy the standard blu ray and upconvert to 4K. HDR makes all the difference.
Geno Breaker
Banned
Great OP. Anyways does anybody have a UHD player that can play DVDs and regular BR discs from any region?
Sony and Oppo both have region free universal players.
Oppo requires a hardware mod, but it's super easy. No soldering. Plug and play. Costs about $80.
demosthenes
Member
Subbed.
I've held out on a new 4k tv and a new receiver for a while now. Waiting to see what next year sets bring if we get 2.1 or not.
I've held out on a new 4k tv and a new receiver for a while now. Waiting to see what next year sets bring if we get 2.1 or not.
The whole "real 4K" bit is a little silly.
The videos Beer Monkey posted earlier demonstrate why this is far better than any essay I could write. Seriously, if you have an hour and are interested in this, watch them. You will then be far better informed, with examples from professionals operating in real world situations rather than marketing wank.
The increase in spatial resolution is probably the least interesting aspect of the UHD format. Spatial resolution isn't overridingly important when assessing whether an image is pleasing. It comes after image brightness, contrast and colour. Of course all things being equal more resolution is always better, and there is a de minimis threshold for what is acceptably resolved. But once that threshold is broken the law of diminishing returns kicks in.
I remember about a decade ago there was a test done at a trade show. Two 50" screens were put side by side showing identical footage. One was a standard 1080p plasma the other was a KURO which was 720p. It was virtually unanimous that the KURO looked better despite being lower resolution. The KUROs were so good they were unrivalled until OLED TVs arrived.
Again all things being equal a 1080p KURO looks better than a 720p KURO. But in that test all things were not equal and resolution was not the decisive criterion marketing departments would have you believe.
More interesting are increases in colour depth (going from not quite 8 bit video to 10 or even 12 bit video is huge) colour gamut (more colours makes for better images) and HDR are much more important. The better compression and greater bandwidth allowances are much more important.
A 1080p image with at least 10 bit video and an improved colour gamut, HDR, improved compression and generous bandwidth on a TV which could properly display it would almost certainly perform as well against a 4K image without those things as the KURO did in the test I mentioned above.
That isn't to say a good 4K TV is a poor investment. They are, for the most part, brilliant TVs. Nor is it to say UHD Blu-rays will not outperform their non UHD cousins. They will. Handily. Even the 2K upscales. It's just that to put it all down to an, admittedly huge, increase in pixels is missing the woods for the trees.
It is a factor, an important one even. It just isn't the most important one. In the same way how many megapixels your camera's sensor has is not the most important factor in how well it takes pictures (operator notwithstanding).
But they are easy buzzwords that marketers can run with. And run with them they do.
The videos Beer Monkey posted earlier demonstrate why this is far better than any essay I could write. Seriously, if you have an hour and are interested in this, watch them. You will then be far better informed, with examples from professionals operating in real world situations rather than marketing wank.
The increase in spatial resolution is probably the least interesting aspect of the UHD format. Spatial resolution isn't overridingly important when assessing whether an image is pleasing. It comes after image brightness, contrast and colour. Of course all things being equal more resolution is always better, and there is a de minimis threshold for what is acceptably resolved. But once that threshold is broken the law of diminishing returns kicks in.
I remember about a decade ago there was a test done at a trade show. Two 50" screens were put side by side showing identical footage. One was a standard 1080p plasma the other was a KURO which was 720p. It was virtually unanimous that the KURO looked better despite being lower resolution. The KUROs were so good they were unrivalled until OLED TVs arrived.
Again all things being equal a 1080p KURO looks better than a 720p KURO. But in that test all things were not equal and resolution was not the decisive criterion marketing departments would have you believe.
More interesting are increases in colour depth (going from not quite 8 bit video to 10 or even 12 bit video is huge) colour gamut (more colours makes for better images) and HDR are much more important. The better compression and greater bandwidth allowances are much more important.
A 1080p image with at least 10 bit video and an improved colour gamut, HDR, improved compression and generous bandwidth on a TV which could properly display it would almost certainly perform as well against a 4K image without those things as the KURO did in the test I mentioned above.
That isn't to say a good 4K TV is a poor investment. They are, for the most part, brilliant TVs. Nor is it to say UHD Blu-rays will not outperform their non UHD cousins. They will. Handily. Even the 2K upscales. It's just that to put it all down to an, admittedly huge, increase in pixels is missing the woods for the trees.
It is a factor, an important one even. It just isn't the most important one. In the same way how many megapixels your camera's sensor has is not the most important factor in how well it takes pictures (operator notwithstanding).
But they are easy buzzwords that marketers can run with. And run with them they do.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
honestly the 4K discs I get most excited about are older films. Stuff that has only really been on DVD / VHS quality. Stuff where special effects were added back to the film negative. Where a 4K / HDR scan of old film can allow us to essentially see something very very close to what the theatrical presentation is like.
Obv some things like film grain are still really difficult with video compression, but overall, when you watch Labrynth or Ghostbusters on a 4K disc, it's the closest thing to seeing those old film versions which is really exciting.
The Blade Runner and Terminator re-releases are exciting for that reason to.
As others have mentioned, most of the 90s onward stuff is all 2K Digital Intermediates and/or 2K Digital effects, which will still benefit from high bitrate, 10-bit / HDR presentations, but won't be as big a leap over the BRD versions.
Obv some things like film grain are still really difficult with video compression, but overall, when you watch Labrynth or Ghostbusters on a 4K disc, it's the closest thing to seeing those old film versions which is really exciting.
The Blade Runner and Terminator re-releases are exciting for that reason to.
As others have mentioned, most of the 90s onward stuff is all 2K Digital Intermediates and/or 2K Digital effects, which will still benefit from high bitrate, 10-bit / HDR presentations, but won't be as big a leap over the BRD versions.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Oh shit, DPP is in here too?
This is gonna be one of the more information rich threads on the board if it stays alive.
This is gonna be one of the more information rich threads on the board if it stays alive.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
well, it's unknown if they will redeem the UHD version on VUDU or not, folks are hoping that's the case but we won't know until the codes arrive
Jesus Carbomb
From Water into Guinness
In most cases, by most objective standards, it will be significantly better than the original theatrical presentation. But then again in most respects so is a well mastered Blu-ray.
A first generation scan of an original negative, even when downsampled to 8 bit 1080p video, will outperform a 4th generation release print. And this is from a self avowed fan of projected film.