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68-Year Old Ex-Marine Shot After Accidentally Triggering His Medical Alert System

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Cyrillus

Member
New York Times said:
The niece stood in the darkened stairwell of the Winbrook Houses, listening, as 20 feet away five police officers yelled at her uncle, who had locked himself in his apartment.

It was 5:25 on a chill November morning. The officers banged loud and hard, demanding that her 68-year-old uncle open his door.

“He was begging them to leave him alone,” she recalls. “He sounded scared.” She pulls her shawl about her shoulders and her voice cracks; she is speaking for the first time about what she saw. “I heard my uncle yelling, ‘Officers, officers, why do you have your guns out?’ ”

The string of events that night sounds prosaic, a who-cares accumulation of little mistakes and misapprehensions. Cumulatively, though, it is like tumbling down the stairs. Somehow the uncle, Kenneth Chamberlain Sr., a former Marine who had heart problems and wheezed if he walked more than 40 feet, triggered his medical alert system pendant. The system operator came on the loudspeaker in his one-bedroom apartment, asking: “Mr. Chamberlain, are you O.K.?” All of this is recorded.

Mr. Chamberlain didn’t respond. So the operator signaled for an ambulance. Police patrol cars fell in behind — standard operating procedure in towns across America. Except an hour later, even as Mr. Chamberlain insisted he was in good health, the police had snapped the locks on the apartment door.

They fired electric charges from Tasers, and beanbags from shotguns. Then they said they saw Mr. Chamberlain grab a knife, and an officer fired his handgun.

Boom! Boom! Mr. Chamberlain’s niece Tonyia Greenhill, who lives upstairs, recalls the echoes ricocheting about the hall. She pushed out a back door and ran into the darkness beneath overarching oaks. He lay on the floor near his kitchen, two bullet holes in his chest, blood pooling thick, dying.

It makes sense to be humble in the presence of conflicting accounts. The White Plains public safety commissioner declared this a “warranted use of deadly force”; the shooter was later put on modified assignment. Mr. Chamberlain, in the commissioner’s telling, had withstood electric charges, grabbed a butcher knife and charged the officers.

The alert system phone in Mr. Chamberlain’s apartment recorded most of the standoff, as did a security camera in the hall. And the officers’ Tasers carried video recorders.

Last month, the Westchester County district attorney played these for the dead man’s son, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr., who teaches martial arts for a local nonprofit organization and intends to file a lawsuit. He is lithe, with a shaved head, and takes pride in a reasoned manner. “My family, we’re not into histrionics,” he says. “We don’t run down the street inciting riot.”

His voice cracks, though, as he describes the tapes. “I heard fear,” he says. “In my 45 years on this earth, I never heard my father sound like that.”

The district attorney will present the case to a grand jury and has not released transcripts. But the family’s recollection matches that of neighbors who listened through closed doors.

They say officers taunted Mr. Chamberlain. He shouted: “Semper fi,” the Marine Corps motto. The police answered with loud shouts of “Hoo-rah!” Another officer, the niece says, said he wanted to pee in Mr. Chamberlain’s bathroom.

Someone, the niece and neighbors say, yelled a racial epithet at the door. Black and white officers were present.

Kenny Randolph listened from his apartment across the hall. “They put fear in his heart,” he says. “It wasn’t a crime scene until they made it one.”

The police say Mr. Chamberlain was “known” to them, although it appears he had not been convicted of a crime. There are intimations that he wrestled with emotional issues. Sometimes, neighbors say, he talked to himself. Who’s to say? As often, life’s default position is set to “complicated.”

Many police departments have trained corps of officers expert in talking with the emotionally upset. Their rule of thumb: talk quietly and de-escalate. That night in White Plains, no one appeared to have de-escalated anything.

Mr. Chamberlain sounded spooked. His son recalls hearing his father say on tape: “This is my sworn testimony. White Plains officers are coming in here to kill me.” A few minutes later, a bullet tore through his rib and heart. The ambulance took him to White Plains Hospital, where he soon died.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/nyregion/fatal-shooting-of-ex-marine-by-white-plains-police-raises-questions.html

Truly an awful situation. This reminds me of the case where two officers shot a man who had been burned head to toe in a car accident because he charged them after they tazed him multiple times for "being uncooperative." I know we seem to be having more and more threads that dump on the police, but with more examples like this popping up it seems hard not to.
 
“He was begging them to leave him alone,” she recalls. “He sounded scared.” She pulls her shawl about her shoulders and her voice cracks; she is speaking for the first time about what she saw. “I heard my uncle yelling, ‘Officers, officers, why do you have your guns out?’ ”

His voice cracks, though, as he describes the tapes. “I heard fear,” he says. “In my 45 years on this earth, I never heard my father sound like that.”

Mr. Chamberlain sounded spooked. His son recalls hearing his father say on tape: “This is my sworn testimony. White Plains officers are coming in here to kill me.” A few minutes later, a bullet tore through his rib and heart. The ambulance took him to White Plains Hospital, where he soon died.
Hope the grand jury convicts the murderer and every officer involved in this incident is fired.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Why the fuck did they have weapons at the ready? Why did they think it was anything other than a possible medical situation?
 

sk3

Banned
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.
 

Onemic

Member
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.

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abusori

Member
Why the hell did they have to get inside? I can't even figure this one out.
I have extreme doubt that any of the cops will get in any real trouble anyway, so whatever.
 

LordCanti

Member
Why the fuck did they have weapons at the ready? Why did they think it was anything other than a possible medical situation?

Those alert pendants are kind of double billed as cop/medical emergency things. The idea being that if you couldn't talk (due to a burglar, medical issue, etc) you can push the button and get the appropriate authorities. Since no one talked, they have no idea if it's a medical or criminal emergency.

Not to say that it absolves anyone of anything in this case. Hard to say who is at fault without the video tape.
 

Veezy

que?
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.

The 68 year old man was shot with tazers, beanbags, and two fucking bullets. He had no priors. I don't need much more of the story to know that he probably could have been put down by the first two items fired his way and this is a prime, and disgusting, example of incredibly excessive force.
 

Jintor

Member
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.

Was it just because he didn't open his door when they knocked? It reads like a SWAT team was deployed or something.
 

BHZ Mayor

Member
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.

Well that was quick. Defense force assemble!
 

Kogepan

Member
Those alert pendants are kind of double billed as cop/medical emergency things. The idea being that if you couldn't talk (due to a burglar, medical issue, etc) you can push the button and get the appropriate authorities. Since no one talked, they have no idea if it's a medical or criminal emergency.

Not to say that it absolves anyone of anything in this case. Hard to say who is at fault without the video tape.

Awesome, so the likelihood of getting curbstomped and murdered by police goes UP by getting one of these things.

This is crazy, its not like a burgulary alarm went off. Nothing that old guy could have done would have justified deadly force, or any force for that matter.
 

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.

It shouldn't have even escalated.

Mr. Chamberlain didn’t respond. So the operator signaled for an ambulance. Police patrol cars fell in behind — standard operating procedure in towns across America. Except an hour later, even as Mr. Chamberlain insisted he was in good health, the police had snapped the locks on the apartment door.

Why did it reach the point of them breaking the door down when he had already responded?
 

Cyrillus

Member
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.

Yeah, he sounds belligerent from the article:

“He was begging them to leave him alone,” and "Officers, officers, why do you have your guns out?"

Sounds belligerent enough to deserve to be tased multiple times and shot with non-lethal shotgun rounds, and ultimately two bullets to the chest.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
As often, life’s default position is set to “complicated.”

That's a fucked up situation to be in. Officers need to be fully investigated and dismissed with criminal charges laid down if need be.

But from the information presented, it can just as well be a series of small unfortunate missteps that lead to a disastrous outcome.

Who's to blame in such a situation? Intuitively, we feel like it should obviously be the guy that shot the other guy dead.

But if in the moment he pulled the trigger, he was legitimately justified in pulling the trigger - felt fear for himself and his comrades, then what?

If in the moment the guy pulled the knife was justified in feeling fear, and reacted intuitively by grabbing a knife, then what?

We keep travelling down the chain of causation, until we realise, that the event was mostly a result of misfortune than caused by any one particular individual.

Shit happens. Sometimes, you have a car accident, and neither party is speeding or drunk.
 

Veezy

que?
As often, life’s default position is set to “complicated.”

That's a fucked up situation to be in. Officers need to be fully investigated and dismissed with criminal charges laid down if need be.

But from the information presented, it can just as well be a series of small unfortunate missteps that lead to a disastrous outcome.

Who's to blame in such a situation? Intuitively, we feel like it should obviously be the guy that shot the other guy dead.

But if in the moment he pulled the trigger, he was legitimately justified in pulling the trigger - felt fear for himself and his comrades, then what?

If in the moment the guy pulled the knife was justified in feeling fear, and reacted intuitively by grabbing a knife, then what?

We keep travelling down the chain of causation, until we realise, that the event was mostly a result of misfortune than caused by any one particular individual.

Shit happens. Sometimes, you have a car accident, and neither party is speeding or drunk.
Or, NYPD shot a tazer, beanbag, and bullets at a 68 year old man who was pleading for his life. So, there's that.
 

sk3

Banned
I'm not saying it shouldn't be investigated further. I didn't see that he was black, maybe its partly a race thing. But I can imagine how the situation can get out of control. An old man woken in the middle of the night (early morning whatever). A bit discombobulated, confused. Doesn't want to let strange people yelling outside the door inside.

Maybe the police have to come in to see he is ok? I don't know the protocol there. They bust in, dude freaks out and grabs a weapon.
 

Cyrillus

Member
Shit happens. Sometimes, you have a car accident, and neither party is speeding or drunk.
Holy false equivalency Batman.


Maybe the police have to come in to see he is ok? I don't know the protocol there. They bust in, dude freaks out and grabs a weapon.
The article says he grabbed a knife after they tased him multiple times and shot him with non-lethal rounds. Also after he told them he was fine and they broke his door down.
 

Mudkips

Banned
As often, life’s default position is set to “complicated.”

That's a fucked up situation to be in. Officers need to be fully investigated and dismissed with criminal charges laid down if need be.

But from the information presented, it can just as well be a series of small unfortunate missteps that lead to a disastrous outcome.

Who's to blame in such a situation? Intuitively, we feel like it should obviously be the guy that shot the other guy dead.

But if in the moment he pulled the trigger, he was legitimately justified in pulling the trigger - felt fear for himself and his comrades, then what?

If in the moment the guy pulled the knife was justified in feeling fear, and reacted intuitively by grabbing a knife, then what?

We keep travelling down the chain of causation, until we realise, that the event was mostly a result of misfortune than caused by any one particular individual.

Shit happens. Sometimes, you have a car accident, and neither party is speeding or drunk.

No, it's pretty simple. They killed a guy instead of assessing who he was and whether or not anyone else was in the house in need of help.
 
They heard the whole thing and have video of it as well. If they decide the use of deadly force was warranted, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've known some crazy old dudes, they can be belligerent. This story sounds crazy, but we don't have the whole story. I'm not going to jump on the "cops are out of control" bandwagon.
because a group of officers using tasers to subdue a single, old man just too much like right.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Those alert pendants are kind of double billed as cop/medical emergency things. The idea being that if you couldn't talk (due to a burglar, medical issue, etc) you can push the button and get the appropriate authorities. Since no one talked, they have no idea if it's a medical or criminal emergency.

Not to say that it absolves anyone of anything in this case. Hard to say who is at fault without the video tape.

Assuming they thought the man was under duress, I don't think it makes sense for them to bust in and shoot at the first thing they see that moves. Especially if they were in some way familiar with this man knew him. Why shoot the guy you think might be under duress?

The whole thing stinks.
 

Onemic

Member
I'm not saying it shouldn't be investigated further. I didn't see that he was black, maybe its partly a race thing. But I can imagine how the situation can get out of control. An old man woken in the middle of the night (early morning whatever). A bit discombobulated, confused. Doesn't want to let strange people yelling outside the door inside.

Maybe the police have to come in to see he is ok? I don't know the protocol there. They bust in, dude freaks out and grabs a weapon.

But he told them he was alright and they still broke through his door. Plus they supposedly taunted him too. The only thing that would possibly absolve the cops of wrongdoing is if he did indeed pick up that butchers knife and started going towards them without stopping. But didn't the article say they started attacking him first without just cause before the whole knife thing happened?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/nyregion/fatal-shooting-of-ex-marine-by-white-plains-police-raises-questions.html

Truly an awful situation. This reminds me of the case where two officers shot a man who had been burned head to toe in a car accident because he charged them after they tazed him multiple times for "being uncooperative." I know we seem to be having more and more threads that dump on the police, but with more examples like this popping up it seems hard not to.

These situations just can't get covered up and tossed under the rug like they used to. Anyone who's done enough reading or had enough experiences will tell you about the Blue Code of Silence. But it's breaking down more and more as social media and other things spotlight the ever pervasive corruption in police departments.
 

antonz

Member
I doubt that he ever went for a knife. Its not uncommon for police to make up stories to justify their actions.

A man of his age with his health conditions is not going to take multiple taser and beanbag hits and keep going let alone grab a knife and charge police.

Big dudebro cops are left rolling on the floor cursing like little bitches when they are shot once with tasers for training.

Multiple taser attacks would leave the old man incapable of such actions.
 

LordCanti

Member
Assuming they thought the man was under duress, I don't think it makes sense for them to bust in and shoot at the first thing they see that moves. Especially if they were in some way familiar with this man knew him. Why shoot the guy you think might be under duress?

The whole thing stinks.

We don't know the whole story, but it's pretty clear that they weren't going anywhere until they verified the mans identity face to face. Why they needed to go into full scale "We need to breach and clear this residence" SWAT mode when he refused to open up is beyond me. It's scary as hell for sure.
 

Koomaster

Member
How powerful was this old guy that he couldn't be subdued with tasers and shooting beanbags at him that they had to shoot live rounds at him too? :/

If he really grabbed a knife and had been responding crazy, I could see the tasers. Isn't that supposed to drop someone instantly? Did he get back up or something? Or did the police just unload everything they had at the poor dude all at once?
 

FelixOrion

Poet Centuriate
Here's what I don't get.

You need to identify who is who. The man is 68, he's not exactly in amazing shape. Even if you taze him, you then restrain/cuff him and then get stuff sorted out, take him to the hospital, etc.

Ever heard the saying "knife to a gun fight?" Guess what wins and guess who had the guns here?

They went all rambo and there needs to be serious repercussions. I wish police conduct hearing and board were public and not organized by the police themselves and held in different jurisdictions.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
Any cop involved should face the firing squad in a just society.

Shit like this is why noone trusts or helps the police unless something heinous like child molestation is involved.
 

lexi

Banned
Militarized police with superiority complexes, 'us vs them' attitudes, this is endemic to the system and won't change for generations. Look forward to thousands more deaths at the hands of police -- with little to no accountability.
 

Veezy

que?
Did he flip out or what? It sounds like he shrugged off a tazer and a beanbag shotgun at close range.

I'm a 26 year old, 190lb, in shape, male. I couldn't shrug off a tazer, much less a shot gunned beanbag, much less one after the other. I hightly doubt a 68 year old man, who's sick enough that he has a medical panic button, could do any of the above.

The man that killed him committed some degree of murder. I can't imagine how it could be explained any other way.
 

abuC

Member
Militarized police with superiority complexes, 'us vs them' attitudes, this is endemic to the system and won't change for generations. Look forward to thousands more deaths at the hands of police -- with little to no accountability.

artworks-000003658139-mnxs6a-crop.jpg
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
I'm a 26 year old, 190lb, in shape, male. I couldn't shrug off a tazer, much less a shot gunned beanbag, much less one after the other. I hightly doubt a 68 year old man, who's sick enough that he has a medical panic button, could do any of the above.

The man that killed him committed some degree of murder. I can't imagine how it could be explained any other way.
I guess that's possible. But the article's details don't add up to make a clear timeline of what happened.

If they really wanted to murder the guy then they would have been better off tazering him to death. Easier to make it look like an accident. But I can't think of a reason why they would hate him so much. If I had to guess at things, the marine scared the shit out of them and the shooter panicked.
 

antonz

Member
I guess that's possible. But the article's details don't add up to make a clear timeline of what happened.

If they really wanted to murder the guy then they would have been better off tazering him to death. Easier to make it look like an accident. But I can't think of a reason why they would hate him so much. If I had to guess at things, the marine scared the shit out of them and the shooter panicked.

Some douchebag probably fired live rounds caught up in the moment and the cop code means everyone falls in line and the old man was suicidal and trying to attack them all of a sudden
 
How and when did the police in America get so fucked up? What the fuck happened?

Is the answer really just "9/11, Bush, internet exposing this stuff more frequently...?"
 
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