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[richiek]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/7-y...-man-with-concealed-carry-license-opens-fire/

A 7-year-old girl died at soccer practice Thursday night and a family friend who had been experiencing paranoia is accused of shooting her in the head before taking his own life.

Emma Nowling and her mother, Sharon Watson, were shot after the little girl’s soccer practice session at the Taylor Sportsplex in Michigan. Watson is listed in serious but stable condition, while Nowling died Thursday night after suffering head injuries, MLive.com reports. Authorities describe the suspect, Timothy Nelson Obeshaw, as a family friend who had a concealed carry permit and a legally-purchased gun.

Police say a 9 mm pistol recovered from the shooting scene was registered to Obeshaw.

The man had recently been experiencing paranoia, thought someone was out to get him and believed someone was trying to control him through mind control, Taylor police Chief Mary Sclabassi told MLive.

“He thought someone was out to get him,” the chief told reporters at a Friday press conference. “Unfortunately, it appears as a result of his (instability) we now have a little girl who simply just wanted to go yesterday to play soccer, and never went home.”

Police said the girl’s mother is being treated and was informed her daughter has died.

Obeshaw had attended Nowling’s practice sessions in the past and on Thursday had a pleasant interaction with the child and her mother, but after the practice, had a confrontation at about 8 p.m. Witnesses saw him shoot into the vehicle then turn the gun on himself.

Obeshaw had no known criminal history. He had registered the gun under his own name in September.

“Of course, this is a tragic situation and the thought that maybe if the right person had the right information at the right time could have prevented this, of course it’s very frustrating,” Sclabassi said. “Clearly this was an individual who needed help. Clearly this is an individual who should not have been able to purchase a handgun just this past September.”

CCW holders are responsible and citizens and gun owners... until they're not.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Fuck this.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/7-y...-man-with-concealed-carry-license-opens-fire/



CCW holders are responsible and citizens and gun owners... until they're not.

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

 

[GorillaJu]

As much as I hate guns and hate how easy it is to get them, even I can see the foolishness in using one person as an example to make a flippant insinuation about all gun carriers.

 

[Arials]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

As much as I hate guns and hate how easy it is to get them, even I can see the foolishness in using one person as an example to make a flippant insinuation about all gun carriers.

Did you both miss all those many other times fucked up gun stuff has happened in America?

 

[BolognaSoup]

One mentally ill person did something terrible therefore tens of millions of others meeting a similar demographic do terrible things. Ok.

 

[Currygan]

Did you both miss all those many other times fucked up gun stuff has happened in America?

arguing with gun enthusiasts is futile, they will probably never get it

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Schools get shot up, movies get shot up, medical centres get shot up, shootings at zombie-cons and soccer games... Might as well just stay locked up at home, assault rifle pointed at the front door, enjoying all that freedom.

America.

 

[Freyjadour]

One mentally ill person did something terrible therefore tens of millions of others meeting a similar demographic do terrible things. Ok.

https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0

 

[FunkyPajamas]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

He didn't say that. What he said is that anybody (not everybody) with a gun can use it on innocent civilians in the blink of an eye.

One mentally ill person did something terrible therefore tens of millions of others meeting a similar demographic do terrible things. Ok.

1. One mentally ill person was able to buy, own, and use a gun on innocent civilians because no checks were made prior to acquiring it.
OR.
2. One gun owner which started suffering from mental illness was still allowed to keep his gun because no regular checks were made to make sure that his mental health cleared him as a responsible owner of guns.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0

Motherfucking Jim Jeffries. Love him to bits!

 

[blackMamba1187]

God fucking dammit. Every fucking day!

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

How many Mortal Kombat characters doing random things accounts are there on this site lol.

How tragic. I don't see the need to include the jab at concealed carry people though, OP. I mean.. one bad apple and all. You could literally say everyone is a law abiding and responsible citizen until they aren't.

 

[17 Seconds]

remember guys, NOW IS NOT THE TIME

 

[dabig2]

Thoughts and prayers with the victim. We certainly have a huge mental health issue on our hands. That's it.

 

[Frozenprince]

God I might throw up.

A little girl. Somebodies fucking BABY.

Disgusting.

 

[MrHoot]

Gun apologists came in at lightning fast speed in this thread this time around.

 

[Massive_Edge]

absolutely disgusting

 

[blackMamba1187]

What's wrong with expanding background checks, again? If it might, possible, prevent a situation like this.

 

[HyperionX]

As much as I hate guns and hate how easy it is to get them, even I can see the foolishness in using one person as an example to make a flippant insinuation about all gun carriers.

A large part of it is that there has been a long propaganda campaign by various pro-gun groups to convince Americans that CCW holders are somehow much more responsible than the ordinary gun owners. Therefore, the expansion of such programs would bring about an increase in safety and fewer deaths or crime.

This claims is most likely total nonsense, as there is very little evidence for it, other than pointing out the basic fact that rich white men tend not to commit burglaries or robberies. Since wealth white people are the predominant holders of CCWs, that tend to skew the number in a way that made look like CCW holders commit crimes at a much lower rate than normal. In reality, a closer look suggests they are commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than people of their demographic group who don't own guns.

Furthermore, many states have now moved on from requiring licensing and/or training for CCWs, to a world where no licensing or training is required. The pretty straightforward outcome is that there are going to be a lot more deaths and dumb shootings as a result. This is an obvious example of one of those outcomes.

 

[BlastProcessing]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

It is all too fathomable. That's the point.

 

[Perfect Blue]

One mentally ill person did something terrible therefore tens of millions of others meeting a similar demographic do terrible things. Ok.

Pretty much. If someone supports the current state affairs in terms of guns legislation in the US as far as I'm concerned they are part of the problem, or at least enabling tragedies like this.

 

[Netherscourge]

As much as I hate guns and hate how easy it is to get them, even I can see the foolishness in using one person as an example to make a flippant insinuation about all gun carriers.

The ability and access to allow 1 person to kill another person without cause makes all gun ownership wrong.

Had this man, and thousands of others with the propensity to murder, had not access to guns, their victims would most assuredly be alive.

It's not about the carriers - it's about what's being carried.

 

[DECK'ARD]

7yo gets shot and killed.

Posters get upset about a statement that anyone can fall victim to mental illness at any time, and that someone with a gun could be particularly dangerous.

Especially being allowed to have it on their person at a soccer practice.

Maybe because this highlights both the problem of blaming everything on mental illness, and the stupidity of CCW for the possibility of what might happen rated than the reality of what can.

 

[Dazza]

He didn't say that. What he said is that anybody (not everybody) with a gun can use it on innocent civilians in the blink of an eye.

Yeah, I'm not sure why the 2nd and 3rd posters read it that way for.

The prevailing argument is that all those that possess a Concealed Carry Permit are responsible gun owners, this case proves that this isn't a guarantee.

Geez I feel terrible for the family, even more so that it's a friend that committed the crime.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Guns are a cancer on this country.

 

[ColdPizza]

Wow, that is some day-ruining news right there. Having a vivid imagination and a young daughter isn't helping either.

 

[IndoAssassin]

Every citizen of America needs to carry a gun everywhere they go. It's time to start defending yourselves because the politicians ain't gonna do nothing for you.

 

[fredrancour]

One mentally ill person did something terrible therefore tens of millions of others meeting a similar demographic do terrible things. Ok.

A society where a person this mentally ill can buy a gun is a society that needs to radically expand background checks on firearm purchases.

 

[BolognaSoup]

Pretty much. If someone supports the current state affairs in terms of guns legislation in the US as far as I'm concerned they are part of the problem, or at least enabling tragedies like this.

So tens of millions of other concealed carry holders murder children? That's what you are saying by saying "pretty much." Ok.

 

[water_wendi]

If i hated the US every day would be a cause for celebration.

 

[smurfx]

if this guy didn't have any sort of criminal history then there wouldn't have even been any red flags. the article didn't say if he had been to any mental health clinics either. how would stricter gun laws stop somebody like him?

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Did you both miss all those many other times fucked up gun stuff has happened in America?

Crimes committed by CCW holders are extraordinarily rare.

He didn't say that. What he said is that anybody (not everybody) with a gun can use it on innocent civilians in the blink of an eye.

It's called dog-whistle politics and I know it when I see it.

A large part of it is that there has been a long propaganda campaign by various pro-gun groups to convince Americans that CCW holders are somehow much more responsible than the ordinary gun owners. Therefore, the expansion of such programs would bring about an increase in safety and fewer deaths or crime.

This claims is most likely total nonsense, as there is very little evidence for it, other than pointing out the basic fact that rich white men tend not to commit burglaries or robberies. Since wealth white people are the predominant holders of CCWs, that tend to skew the number in a way that made look like CCW holders commit crimes at a much lower rate than normal. In reality, a closer look suggests they are commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than people of their demographic group who don't own guns.

Furthermore, many states have now moved on from requiring licensing and/or training for CCWs, to a world where no licensing or training is required. The pretty straightforward outcome is that there are going to be a lot more deaths and dumb shootings as a result. This is an obvious example of one of those outcomes.

These claims are "most likely total nonsense" so they should be easy to disprove, correct? I expect to see the receipts on that one: please point to some information demonstrating that CCW holders are indeed highly represented in gun crime.

 

[entremet]

The man had recently been experiencing paranoia, thought someone was out to get him and believed someone was trying to control him through mind control, Taylor police Chief Mary Sclabassi told MLive.

This type of person should not have a CCW.

 

[commedieu]

really need a OT.

This type of person should not have CCW.

Should in one cup, vomit in the other. See which fills up faster.

 

[BolognaSoup]

A society where a person this mentally ill can buy a gun is a society that needs to radically expand background checks on firearm purchases.

I agree.

 

[Netherscourge]

Every citizen of America needs to carry a gun everywhere they go. It's time to start defending yourselves because the politicians ain't gonna do nothing for you.

How do you defend yourself or your family from someone who walks up to the side of your car from out of nowhere and just points a gun at your head and pulls the trigger?

Do you keep your gun in your hand at all times with the safety off, constantly looking around for suspicious-looking people?

How the fuck do you go through life like that?

 

[Perfect Blue]

So tens of millions of other concealed carry holders murder children? That's what you are saying by saying "pretty much." Ok.

Not directly but, yes. People are dying all over the country because sociopaths are obsessively attached to their instruments of murder.

 

[Sianos]

If people want to blame mental health for these recurrent tragedies, then they better be prepared to entirely overhaul the current system and end the reign of insurance companies over therapy. And no, a fiftieth protest vote to repeal Obamacare so millions lose their health insurance does not count as an overhaul.

Why is someone suffering from delusions allowed to buy a gun? How did this happen?

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Every citizen of America needs to carry a gun everywhere they go. It's time to start defending yourselves because the politicians ain't gonna do nothing for you.

Well, what if we WANT TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE WE DON'T WANT TO CONSTANTLY WORRY ABOUT GETTING MURDERED ANYWHERE, AT ANYTIME? WHAT THE FUCK DO WE DO THEN!?

These gun freaks are so fucking worried about the government persecuting them. What they should be worried about is a future where their fellow citizens treat them like lunatics and ostracize them if they own guns.
That's what the future's going to be like, and it will be great.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Why is someone suffering from delusions allowed to buy a gun? How did this happen?

Because the American government won't ban guns, and citizens get upset because they think it would violate their 2nd amendment, which it wouldn't.

 

[stump sock]

Well, what if we WANT TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE WE DON'T WANT TO CONSTANTLY WORRY ABOUT GETTING MURDERED ANYWHERE, AT ANYTIME? WHAT THE FUCK DO WE DO THEN!?

at this rate... emigrate.

 

[DECK'ARD]

This type of person should not have a CCW.

That type of person is potentially any person.

Before or after they have a gun.

 

[Arkeband]

It really isn't appropriate to attribute the actions of an individual to an entire group, regardless of your political beliefs. This is an unfathomable and unforgivable crime but one guy is not representative of an entire group no matter how convenient it is to pretend otherwise.

So what you're saying... Is he wasn't a REAL Scotsman.

See you in the next thread!

 

[Dai101]

See? I told you guys the week wasn't over yet.

Disgusting and sad. But this will never change.

 

[MrHoot]

So tens of millions of other concealed carry holders murder children? That's what you are saying by saying "pretty much." Ok.

Well maybe not tens of millions but..how many bunch of responsible gun owners did we have this year in america murdering people ? I think september alone had quite a nice score !

American gun owners: We'll only start caring after we reach over 100'000 corpses a year. Maybe.

Maybe should try to put less money in weapons (also you know, lowering the chances of black market for foreign terrorism) and more into an actual health institution so aaaaall these people with mental health issues would actually get healthcare instead of guns

 

[Netherscourge]

If people want to blame mental health for these recurrent tragedies, then they better be prepared to entirely overhaul the current system and end the reign of insurance companies over therapy. And no, a fiftieth protest vote to repeal Obamacare so millions lose their health insurance does not count as an overhaul.

Why is someone suffering from delusions allowed to buy a gun? How did this happen?

Because gun ownership itself is a mental illness, born of paranoia and inadequacies.

 

[commedieu]

at this rate... emigrate.

Only solution. The game is rigged and the gun lobby is too strong. Fear mongering is the only news from media. So this is just the way America will continue to devolve. No chance at gun reform at all.

None. People will continue to point fingers at every and all things besides immediate teethy gun reform. I'm tired. Point @ mental health care, then condemn the freeloaders getting medical aid from the government. This country is broken folks.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Repeal the 2nd. Confiscate guns.

 

[Goldenroad]

I'm going to guess the argument is going to be that she should have had a gun. Every moment just seems like a new low that I didn't know existed.