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7-year-old girl shot and killed at MI soccer practice by paranoid man with CCW
- Thread starter richiek
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I mean more specifically in this case how the system failed to such an extent that an openly delusional (in the psychological sense of the word) man in need of psychological care was able to purchase a gun with no problem and use it to kill an innocent child.
I know the current system is unacceptable, but I didn't think it was THAT bad.
FunkyPajamas
Member
But they do exist. I mean, I am not talking about taking guns away. Just, if you're a CCW holder OR are requesting a CCW permit, then go through a medical/mental/physical check.
1. Clear a mental check to demonstrate you're sane.
2. Clear a medical check to demonstrate you have proper vision/etc.
3. Clear a physical/weapons handling course/check to demonstrate you can handle the gun properly.
What? I mean, what's the hidden agenda/message in my could-not-be-clearer post? I'm just saying that I think CCWs should go through checks. I'm not saying BAN ALL GUNS.
It's pretty sad that you think I have an ulterior motive. Hell, if I wanted to say "ban all guns" I would say it out loud.
edit: oh, are you referring to the OPs comment at the end of his post? Ok, I can't claim to know what he meant or didn't mean by that, but I see it as just a fact. "Things work until they break". That's all there is to it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3518334/
Basically, CCW rarely commits crimes because wealth white men rarely commit crimes. But when they do, it's much likely to be a weapon related offense.
Furthermore, since 2009, the laws related to CCW are far more lax and have expanded to a far greater number of people. It's very likely, although I can't prove it, that CCWs are commit an increasing number of crimes as the the number of holders increase.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
#notallgunowners??
Subpar Scrub
Banned
The 2nd amendment doesn't need to be repealed, just take guns from civilians.
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Every state has their own police and special response squads, I assume (I'm not American). They can act as a well regulated militia in that sense.
No, but this is a direct consequence of the policy that makes it so easy to own guns, and it's ingenious to pretend otherwise.
Personally, i value the thousands of innocent lives lost over the rights of millions to bear glorified, killing toys.
It is possible that he purchased the gun before he started developing paranoia since the article started he only recently started experiencing paranoia.
Was it mentioned how they found out he started experiencing paranoia? Were there any records of it or did they find out from his friends/family? Although I am in favor of expanded and improved background checks if there were no records of his paranoia they would had done nothing.
Unfortunately a lot of the times when someone starts developing mental problems it goes largely ignored by everyone until something bad happens (not necessarily someone getting killed/hurt).
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Yeah, I know what you meant man :/ paranoia is a hard one, because it's a bit like anxiety, in that people who suffer from it can be fine until something gives them a mental attack.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
Each state has what's known as a National Guard. Although I think Texas has its own more military-like thing, because it was actually a sovereign republic for a few years before being annexed by the United States.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Yearly renewals of CCW permits. Do medical/physical/training checks then. If you clear them, you can keep your CCW.
Unfortunately, the majority of Americans (including the Supreme Court) ignore the "well regulated Militia" part and focus solely on the "right to keep and bear Arms" part.
So entirely missing the point. It doesn't matter that it's a 'group of people' (the reason I put it like that is that a group of people is just people who own something, it's not like they're a race of people or anything), it's that they're all people who own a very dangerous thing. No one's saying every gun owner is a bad person, or an insane person, but all it takes is a few people who don't or aren't capable of properly owning that thing for things to go very bad. This this does have a pretty singular purpose for destruction after all.
This 'group of people' is very large, larger than it should be because basically anyone can get one pretty damn easily. If you want people to be less critical of this 'group of people', then maybe make the club a bit more exclusive.
BolognaSoup
Member
Show me where CCW holders have killed thousands.
M0nochromatic
Member
Don't worry, despite the many dead innocents, the current system guarantees that your guns will remain free, widespread, and unregulated.
The status quo will certainly continue.
The status quo will certainly continue.
NHarmonic.
Member
This is sickening.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Oh okay. So would those be good enough to be considered "well regulated militias"? I know that most of the people who cry about their 2nd amendment rights don't even go to gun safety seminars or security conferences regularly, so they sure as hell aren't "well regulated".
Netherscourge
Banned
How much money has the NRA donated to mental illness research vs. lobbying congress to vote against gun control bills?
I'm guessing it's more in favor of lobbying against gun control.
I'm guessing it's more in favor of lobbying against gun control.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
In a country where PPACA itself was lambasted as "socialist", the likelihood of socialized medicine is almost nil. This country has done everything it can to dismantle state-run mental healthcare facilities over the past 5 decades.
Are events like the Boston Marathon bombing, Fort Hood attack, and San Bernandino shooting sufficient enough for people to reasonably cast wide, negative generalizations against Islam and the Muslims who practice it? I somehow doubt such rhetoric would be well received in this forum.
I really couldn't care less about the reasoning as to why CCW holders commit less crime: they commit less crime. They are not in any way a significant representation of total gun crime and no amount of mental gymnastics that you put yourself through will get you to a point where you can assert as such with any credibility.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence
Congress extends a ban on CDC research on gun violence
Add another death to the statistics for people killed by supposes responsible gun owners. I wonder what the number of deaths caused by accidental firings, mistakes, stolen guns, their kids etc. Is compared to the number of times they've actually been used to prevent a crime in progress. Fucking wanting to be superman yahoos. They're responsible gun owners until they're not.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
THAT is exactly what my problem is.
BolognaSoup
Member
Generic "gun violence" equates with CCW holders murderig children everywhere. Ok.
I know a simple solution, get a gun of your own, for protection against other gun owners!
One is one too many, it shouldn't happen at all. And there's been way more than one incident.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
It would, but the Supreme Court recently ruled that the 2nd Amendment was intended to mean that regular citizens could own private arms. And if you read what the Framers (aka the "Founding Fathers" but I hate that term) wrote about it, you'll see that that is the correct interpretation; most of them actually did envision individual, armed citizens.
What the real gun issue is is that after almost 250 years the United States is starting to become a real, distinct culture, and these old rules aren't needed any longer. No one really knows what to do, but honestly having such an old constitution as the basis of our laws is probably kind of stupid anyway.
The point is that the data isn't there because they are legally barred from researching it.
old manatee
Banned
Fuck off guns. Tired of this shit.
Netherscourge
Banned
Maybe if the Dinosaurs had guns they'd still be alive?
Alligatorjandro
Banned
This is our life now.
FunkyPajamas
Member
That's not quite the same though. Unless being a Muslim means you carry around a Scimitar.
Holy shit guys your country is insane.
BolognaSoup
Member
What's hilarious is I COMPLETELY agree with everyone calling for better backgrounds etc. but immediately jumping to "see all these millions of CCW holders are murderers!" does NOTHING to bring anyone to the table and find solutions.
CC class should be two months long at the least followed with a written examination and hands on examination and target portion. Two grand to enroll nonrefundable if you fail, six months to a year waiting period to re enroll and licenses must be renewed every two years finally no more open carry. .
It's definitely part of the equation. The problem is that the right wants to ONLY look at that part of the equation, ignoring other factors, and then doing nothing to even work on that one thing.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
that's also a pretty big issue we're going to run into sooner or later (outside of us running into issues with the 2nd amendment) and no one will ever ever bring up the idea of a new constitution or new amendments unless something very drastic changes.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Netherscourge
Banned
That right there is the problem with our country - assholes who are just blindly ignoring reality.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Confiscate the fucking guns already! What the fuck is this madness? How can anyone excuse this fucking bullshit?
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS.
This COMPOUNDS PROBLEMS FFS, DO people NOT understand how this works?!
YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS WHEN ANY FUCK COULD BREAK DOWN AND PULL OFF SOME BULLSHIT LIKE THIS OR A MASSACRE.
The US Government, gun shops and gun manufacturers should get sued into oblivion for every fucking day that goes by and nothing is done. We are all getting exposed to fucking getting EASILY killed by having these weapons available.
For reference.
ANYONE with the right to bear a fucking weapon could break and then everyone else is SOL.
AWESOME.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS.
This COMPOUNDS PROBLEMS FFS, DO people NOT understand how this works?!
YOU CAN'T HAVE GUNS WHEN ANY FUCK COULD BREAK DOWN AND PULL OFF SOME BULLSHIT LIKE THIS OR A MASSACRE.
The US Government, gun shops and gun manufacturers should get sued into oblivion for every fucking day that goes by and nothing is done. We are all getting exposed to fucking getting EASILY killed by having these weapons available.
For reference.
ANYONE with the right to bear a fucking weapon could break and then everyone else is SOL.
AWESOME.
You can't prove it because congress banned research on it at the behest of the NRA.
BolognaSoup
Member
Except that someone did.
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