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[kirblar]

I broke my collar bone playing middle school football and the doctor told me I should stop playing because it wasn't worth the damage it does to your body. Doc was dropping facts only.

Parents have started pulling their kids from football and steering them to pretty much any other sport. It feels like it's going to go in the direction Boxing did and start pulling more and more from the underclasses since the upper/middle ones will be staying further away.

 

[vatstep]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/

Every NFL fan should absolutely watch this documentary. It made me, as a lifelong fan, question the morality of supporting the NFL altogether.

Part 1 is airing momentarily on TV (10pm EST). I think I may watch it again.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Parents have started pulling their kids from football and steering them to pretty much any other sport. It feels like it's going to go in the direction Boxing did and start pulling more and more from the underclasses since the upper/middle ones will be staying further away.

Despite playing for 20 years you couldn't get me to allow my kid or nephew on a football field unless you killed me. I loved it dearly but nope nope nope.

 

[ezrarh]

I went to a somewhat prestigious university and I swear, every kid pretty much did track and field or cross country. I'm quite confident that the head trauma will make your kid less able to focus on schoolwork. I would also be hesitant to have my kid play soccer.

 

[GameGuru59]

Parents have started pulling their kids from football and steering them to pretty much any other sport. It feels like it's going to go in the direction Boxing did and start pulling more and more from the underclasses since the upper/middle ones will be staying further away.

I feel people who say this have never been to an SEC football game (or just even an NFL game). When Auburn won over Bama last year, Auburn had to replant the field because so many people dumped their relatives' ashes on the field that it killed the grass. People arrive as early as Wednsday to claim spots on the plains for tailgating.

Football will never go the way of boxing. People will play with flags before that. The South will never let it go. Never. This is the place where its still fine and dandy to wave the fucking Confederate flag. The seal of the city of Montgomery says "Cradle of the Confederacy, Birthplace of the Civil Rights Movement."

Unless somebody can come up with a new sport to use the huge ass stadiums and give people random reasons to grill, its not going anywhere. At least down here. Football is the real American pastime.

 

[Zeke]

I broke my collar bone playing middle school football and the doctor told me I should stop playing because it wasn't worth the damage it does to your body. Doc was dropping facts only.

My knees are pretty shot and my back isn't all that great either. Had my bell rung a few times was never held out as precaution just finished out games feeling dizzy and woozy. It's a tough ass sport, sounds horrible but if given the choice again I'm not sure I'd change anything.

 

[Gallbaro]

I feel people who say this have never been to an SEC football game (or just even an NFL game). When Auburn won over Bama last year, Auburn had to replant the field because so many people dumped their relatives' ashes on the field that it killed the grass. People arrive as early as Wednsday to claim spots on the plains for tailgating.

Football will never go the way of boxing. People will play with flags before that. The South will never let it go. Never. This is the place where its still fine and dandy to wave the fucking Confederate flag. The seal of the city of Montgomery says "Cradle of the Confederacy, Birthplace of the Civil Rights Movement."

Unless somebody can come up with a new sport to use the huge ass stadiums and give people random reasons to grill, its not going anywhere. At least down here. Football is the real American pastime.

How can you claim that such a young sport is our past time?

The sport will be replaced by Football, just a brief matter of time.

Spoiler

Even quicker if FIFA makes the right call.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Rules are going to change and we are going to be getting 100-point games in the future. It will be like in that movie with the co-ed showers and the giant bugs. The one where you rooted for the bugs.

As long as Dina Meyer is there to cheer me on!

 

[Esch]

I feel people who say this have never been to an SEC football game (or just even an NFL game). When Auburn won over Bama last year, Auburn had to replant the field because so many people dumped their relatives' ashes on the field that it killed the grass. People arrive as early as Wednsday to claim spots on the plains for tailgating.

Football will never go the way of boxing. People will play with flags before that. The South will never let it go. Never. This is the place where its still fine and dandy to wave the fucking Confederate flag. The seal of the city of Montgomery says "Cradle of the Confederacy, Birthplace of the Civil Rights Movement."

Unless somebody can come up with a new sport to use the huge ass stadiums and give people random reasons to grill, its not going anywhere. At least down here. Football is the real American pastime.

Nothing lasts forever.

Not a single goddamn thing.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Man..that's something. Time for airbag helmets..

 

[ShaggsMagoo]

I would be interested to see a similar study involving Rugby League and Union players along with Australian Rules Football players. It's been theorized that the increased protective gear is actually worse for player safety in the long term sort of the same way that boxing gloves are possibly more dangerous than MMA gloves over long periods of time.

 

[kirblar]

I went to a somewhat prestigious university and I swear, every kid pretty much did track and field or cross country. I'm quite confident that the head trauma will make your kid less able to focus on schoolwork. I would also be hesitant to have my kid play soccer.

If they want a contact sport- wrestling/martial arts/lacrosse are the way to go, imo. Wrestling's concussions don't get problematic until college, when you have grown-ass men throwing each other around.

 

[siddx]

One of the issues I think gets glossed over is that even if the NFL was completely transparent about the risks associated with playing the sport, it won't stop the influx of kids (or parents) who are fine with potential brain damage if it makes them rich and famous. I'm normally the guy who says "as long as they know the risks, let them do whatever they want!" but in this case it's not so clear cut because many of these players begin at an age where they are unable to make a responsible decision on their own. And even as they get older, that potential to be a millionaire at an age when the vast majority of people are either spiraling deep into student loan debt or struggling with a minimum wage job must be a siren's call. I know if I was talented enough to have played football at a level that made the NFL even a remote possibility, I would have been fine in my teens and early 20's with any risk associated.

 

[revolverjgw]

Nothing lasts forever.

Not a single goddamn thing.

Even cold November Rain?

 

[Opiate]

Parents have started pulling their kids from football and steering them to pretty much any other sport. It feels like it's going to go in the direction Boxing did and start pulling more and more from the underclasses since the upper/middle ones will be staying further away.

Yes, although I doubt Football will crater in popularity the way boxing has. Its days as America's premiere sport may wane in the next decade or so, but it's not going to suddenly collapse in popularity. Whatever trends we're talking about will take a good deal of time to have noticeable effects, and even then it won't be a sudden fall, just a gradual decline.

And even that is hard to predict; the future of sport is easier to see than the future of tech, but still, 10 years from now who knows what the landscape will look like with any real accuracy.

 

[LuchaShaq]

I would be interested to see a similar study involving Rugby League and Union players along with Australian Rules Football players. It's been theorized that the increased protective gear is actually worse for player safety in the long term sort of the same way that boxing gloves are possibly more dangerous than MMA gloves over long periods of time.

Rugby and football are not analogous in this way. The mechanics of football lead to many more high speed impacts while rugby is much more of a constant grind to over simplify things.

The helmets problem is that in football you constantly use it not as protection, but as a weapon.

 

[Bodacious]

How long until this sport is banned?

How long until boxing is banned? Wrestling? Skiing? Weightlifting? Mountain climbing? Any sport involving strenuous activity, physical contact, dependence on safety equipment, and/or speed has its risks.

 

[Esch]

Wow, that League of Denial special is damning.

 

[siddx]

Rugby and football are not analogous in this way. The mechanics of football lead to many more high speed impacts while rugby is much more of a constant grind to over simplify things.

The helmets problem is that in football you constantly use it not as protection, but as a weapon.

There's also the fact that while Rugby players are certainly strong fit guys, and the back rows are often filled with pretty large dudes, they are still dwarfed by the size and power of many football players.

Although it's also worth noting that I have heard complaints and concerns that Rugby has begun moving towards bigger and more powerful players in the last few years which is leading to a more dangerous game. So we may start seeing similar concerns in that sport as well.

 

[FreeMufasa]

Played American Fotball for 3 years in da UK and I can definitely see this. You really take a beating. Im seeing dudes who I use to play with continue and end up with all fucked up problems. What blows my mind is how these kids taking a beating in high school, a worser one in college and an even worse one in the NFL and still function to some degree.

Wonder if theres a study like this for rugby.

 

[GameGuru59]

How can you claim that such a young sport is our past time?

The sport will be replaced by Football, just a brief matter of time.

Spoiler

Even quicker if FIFA makes the right call.

Its our pastime because of TV ratings, tailgating, and the fact baseball isn't our pastime anymore.

Not a chance. Football (Americano) is not Boxing. The nature of boxing causes concussions. Football can be changed to make it less dangerous. The reason we have helmets at all is because of an effort to make football less dangerous. The same is true of the forward pass. America will change football before it replaces it with Soccer- a sport that doesn't lend itself to American needs for instant gratification and demosnstrations of physical strength.

Honestly, flag football doesn't actually sound that bad. Tackling itself could be prohibited, but blocking and other types of roughousing allowed. Multiple flags could be placed on the player, perhaps the back, shoulders, and waistline. The flags could be difficult to remove so that some level of strength is required to remove them. If a player succesfully removes two flags from the ball carrier, the ball would be placed at that spot and the down would turnover.

Football may have to change, but it sure as hell isn't going to be replaced by soccer- unless soccer itself changes. Frankly, the idea is laughable to me as a person who played soccer breifly in a California highschool, where the sport should be the most popular. Even in California, soccer games were mostly attended by friends and family, while much of the entire highschool aparatus was designed around football (band, cheer, homecoming, ect.). And, while I lived a couple years in California, I've spent most of my time in Georgia and Alabama. It would be unimaginable for soccer to replace football here.

Unfathomable. I don't want to be dismissive, but I feel even the suggestion that soccer might replace football here in the southern United States just reflects an inexperice with this entire part of the country (let alone "don't mess with my multi-million dollar highschool football stadium" Texas). Such a suggestion just wouldn't even compute with your run of the mill southerner. A large part of our culture is pretty much organized around it.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Its our pastime because of TV ratings, tailgating, and the fact baseball isn't our pastime anymore.

Not a chance. Football (Americano) is not Boxing. The nature of boxing causes concussions. Football can be changed to make it less dangerous. The reason we have helmets at all is because of an effort to make football less dangerous. The same is true of the forward pass. America will change football before it replaces it with Soccer- a sport that doesn't lend itself to American needs for instant gratification and demosnstrations of physical strength.

Honestly, flag football doesn't actually sound that bad. Tackling itself could be prohibited, but blocking and other types of roughousing allowed. Multiple flags could be placed on the player, perhaps the back, shoulders, and waistline. The flags could be difficult to remove so that some level of strength is required to remove them. If a player succesfully removes two flags from the ball carrier, the ball would be placed at that spot and the down would turnover.

Football may have to change, but it sure as hell isn't going to be replaced by soccer- unless soccer itself changes. Frankly, the idea is laughable to me as a person who played soccer breifly in a California highschool, where the sport should be the most popular. Even in California, soccer games were mostly attended by friends and family, while much of the entire highschool aparatus was designed around football (band, cheer, homecoming, ect.). And, while I lived a couple years in California, I've spent most of my time in Georgia and Alabama. It would be unimaginable for soccer to replace football here.

Unfathomable. I don't want to be dismissive, but I feel even the suggestion that soccer might replace football here in the southern United States just reflects an inexperice with this entire part of the country (let alone "don't mess with my multi-million dollar highschool football stadium" Texas). Such a suggestion just wouldn't even compute with your run of the mill southerner. A large part of our culture is pretty much organized around it.

The nature of football absolutely causes head trauma, and there is really no way around that. You cant just look at the high light reel hits, some of the guys who get it the worst are the lineman who are banging against each other down after down 70 times a game. That is probably the unhealthiest aspect of the game. How exactly are you going to change that?

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Baseball used to be king and Americas pastuime and then football took over.

Things can change like that. Football is mad popular though. Its not gonna drop anytime soon. But I thought the same about boxing. That was big in my youth. Its shit now.

I don't see soccer taking over AT ALL, haha.

O yea,I love watching football.

I played in HS as well. Still got a slightly bum knee from it.

 

[GameGuru59]

The nature of football absolutely causes head trauma, and there is really no way around that. You cant just look at the high light reel hits, some of the guys who get it the worst are the lineman who are banging against each other down after down 70 times a game. That is probably the unhealthiest aspect of the game. How exactly are you going to change that?

You could get them to play without helmets like Rugby players. There's some suggestion that the fact the players are wearing helmets makes them beleive they can take harder shots to the head.

A more drastic option would be to lower the number of linemen, so that big pileups don't happen like they do now. Such a change would also likely require the linemen to be more agile because fewer people would have to protect a wider area- making them lighter.

Also, I think they could consider changing the rule on the forward pass ending at the line of scrimmage, in favor of a rule that says you can only do one forward pass per play. This would make EVERYONE more agile because the whole of the field would need to be protected, and would make the idea of a linebacker less relevant.

Come on guys, this is a forum with a huge contingent of game design affecionados; surely we can come up with a safer and perhaps even more exciting game!

 

[Elfforkusu]

Come on guys, this is a forum with a huge contingent of game design affecionados; surely we can come up with a safer and perhaps even more exciting game!

Should be the NFL's job to spend the brainpower and money to save the game.

The nature of football absolutely causes head trauma, and there is really no way around that. You cant just look at the high light reel hits, some of the guys who get it the worst are the lineman who are banging against each other down after down 70 times a game. That is probably the unhealthiest aspect of the game. How exactly are you going to change that?

The smaller impacts are the literally the easiest to solve with technology. Invent better helmets. Tada

 

[Salazar]

T
Although it's also worth noting that I have heard complaints and concerns that Rugby has begun moving towards bigger and more powerful players in the last few years which is leading to a more dangerous game. So we may start seeing similar concerns in that sport as well.

Aye. The physique of your elite rugby back has changed quite a damn bit.

 

[GameGuru59]

Should be the NFL's job to spend the brainpower and money to save the game.

The NFL only exists because of its own fans. Nor did the NFL invent football. Sports are not intellectual property, they are held in common by the public.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I don't get the boxing comparisons.

I mean my understanding is boxing had issues due to the unorganized nature of the sport. How many organizations, divisions, champions are there? How do you even follow it effectively? The other issue being people like Don King. Basically running rampant and destroying the game at the expense of everyone else. Not sure how accurate that is.

But never did I hear it lose popularity due to safety concerns.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't get the boxing comparisons.

I mean my understanding is boxing had issues due to the unorganized nature of the sport. How many organizations, divisions, champions are there? How do you even follow it effectively? The other issue being people like Don King. Basically running rampant and destroying the game at the expense of everyone else. Not sure how accurate that is.

But never did I hear it lose popularity due to safety concerns.

Those are definitely issues but the talent pool in boxing has pretty much been drained. Look at the heavyweight division. In the past, some of the best athletes in the U.S. were steered towards boxing, nowadays those guys are becoming NFL tight ends and linebackers or NBA power forwards. The lack of organization is tied in with the safety aspect though. It's such a long shot to actually become anything in boxing and make any serious money, people don't want to spend years getting their brains bashed in for the one in a million shot they become the next Floyd Mayweather or Oscar De La Hoya. This could also affect football. If I'm an elite athlete that can play any sport he wants, the guaranteed big money contracts that baseball and basketball players net would start looking pretty damn attractive.

 

[Elfforkusu]

The NFL only exists because of its own fans. Nor did the NFL invent football. Sports are not intellectual property, they are held in common by the public.

The NFL (and universities) are making an enormous money off of football. If they want to continue making that money, they should invest in its future.

Otherwise, something else will indeed take its place. Though I don't buy that there's going to be a sudden sea change over the next decade -- it might take 30 years for the decline to happen. Football is far more entrenched than boxing ever was.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Those are definitely issues but the talent pool in boxing has pretty much been drained. Look at the heavyweight division. In the past, some of the best athletes in the U.S. were steered towards boxing, nowadays those guys are becoming NFL tight ends and linebackers or NBA power forwards. The lack of organization is tied in with the safety aspect though. It's such a long shot to actually become anything in boxing and make any serious money, people don't want to spend years getting their brains bashed in for the one in a million shot they become the next Floyd Mayweather or Oscar De La Hoya. This could also affect football. If I'm an elite athlete that can play any sport he wants, the guaranteed big money contracts that baseball and basketball players net would start looking pretty damn attractive.

Hm I could see that.

But I think the other issues were much larger and dwarfed any safety issues. I mean by the late 1990s and early 2000s, boxing was fading. But it was essentially replaced by the exploding popularity of MMA. Which from a safety perspective is arguably much worse than boxing.

 

[Odrion]

Just gotta wait for those brain repairing nanomachines, son.

 

[GameGuru59]

people don't want to spend years getting their brains bashed in for the one in a million shot they become the next Floyd Mayweather or Oscar De La Hoya. This could also affect football. If I'm an elite athlete that can play any sport he wants, the guaranteed big money contracts that baseball and basketball players net would start looking pretty damn attractive.

The thing with boxing is that the injuries are much more visible. All the major boxing stars still alive today have huge and obvious mental disablities. This is not true of football, especially in more athletic postions like quarterback, runningback and receiver. The dropoff for football's sources of talent will likely be much smaller because of this- in addition to fact the sport is more popular than boxing ever was or could ever hope to be. Highschool and Collegiate life is essentially socially organized around footbal in many places. Boxing never had that, and had much more serious results from the head trauma associated with it. Football will have to change because this situation is unacceptable. But its not going to go the way of boxing.

Hm I could see that.

But I think the other issues were much larger and dwarfed any safety issues. I mean by the late 1990s and early 2000s, boxing was fading. But it was essentially replaced by the exploding popularity of MMA. Which from a safety perspective is arguably much worse than boxing.

This too on MMA. If you count the popularity of boxing and MMA together, did boxing really truly fade? Or did the audience split?

The NFL (and universities) are making an enormous money off of football. If they want to continue making that money, they should invest in its future.

Otherwise, something else will indeed take its place. Though I don't buy that there's going to be a sudden sea change over the next decade -- it might take 30 years for the decline to happen. Football is far more entrenched than boxing ever was.

If they were so stupid as to see a 30 year decline and not do anything about it, football wouldn't be replaced by soccer. I would contend the very nature of soccer leans against Americans' entertainment tastes. Soccer is a blast to play, but its boring as hell to watch.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

The nature of football absolutely causes head trauma, and there is really no way around that. You cant just look at the high light reel hits, some of the guys who get it the worst are the lineman who are banging against each other down after down 70 times a game. That is probably the unhealthiest aspect of the game. How exactly are you going to change that?

Bring back the 'five mississippi' rush.

 

[Tesseract]

why not play flag or tag or {insert mode here} instead?

those numbers are devastating

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Big fan of football but haven't watched much lately. Can't remember the last time i watched a game from start to finish.

Whereas I used to look at big hits and go, "whoaaaa, that dude got ROCKED!" now all I think about is, "I hope he's okay"

At some point I just thought it's not worth it anymore.

 

[Zizbuka]

Yet they still lead with their heads. Blame this on ESPN. Tackles don't make the highlights, bone jarring hits.......

 

[4th Chamber]

Is a concussion enough to cause lasting brain damage?

 

[Deleted member 1235]

what I don't understand is why all football players are getting this. what about rugby? there's not even helmets, but you just don't hear all the stories about the freak outs/deaths whatever.

 

[kingocfs]

Big fan of football but haven't watched much lately. Can't remember the last time i watched a game from start to finish.

Whereas I used to look at big hits and go, "whoaaaa, that dude got ROCKED!" now all I think about is, "I hope he's okay"

At some point I just thought it's not worth it anymore.

I feel the same way, honestly. Watching running backs lower their heads and run full speed into a group of dudes doing the same thing just makes me cringe now. It's just not enjoyable to see.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Is a concussion enough to cause lasting brain damage?

Even sub-concussive hits will contribute to risk of CTE over a prolonged period of time.

Football's gotten too big and too fast and there's no way around it.

what I don't understand is why all football players are getting this. what about rugby? there's not even helmets, but you just don't hear all the stories about the freak outs/deaths whatever.

I don't think there have been many studies done wrt rugby. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a link there as well. Big hits in rugby cause a lot of whiplash and contribute to concussions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/s...-concussions-but-few-want-to-participate.html

 

[GoldenEye 007]

what I don't understand is why all football players are getting this. what about rugby? there's not even helmets, but you just don't hear all the stories about the freak outs/deaths whatever.

Do we know there has been this level of scrutiny on the sport? I know in the US, nobody cares about the sport. But overseas, have there been studies and examinations of former players' brains?

 

[gogosox82]

This is incredibly disturbing but not completely shocking at the same time. There have been reports for years on how incredibly damaging football is to the body and the mental damage it does. The NFL has mostly been trying to skate around the issue but its getting harder and harder for them deal with it. On a personal level, I played hs football and remember taking some nasty hits. Just makes you wonder about the lasting effects some of those hits I took will have on me years later.

Do we ban boxing or ufc? If more about people having choices and choosing to put themselves in harms way.




I share in this. I get really uncomfortable when people cheer on big hits when its clear damage is being done.

I think parents will just stop letting their kids play football. My g/f's son isn't into sports at all so we won't have to worry about him but if we decide to have another kid together, I don't think I'd let him play.

Second point makes me think how Eagles fans were cheering when Micheal Irvin got carted off the field at the Vet. Still sends chills down my spine years later.

 

[Elfforkusu]

If they were so stupid as to see a 30 year decline and not do anything about it, football wouldn't be replaced by soccer. I would contend the very nature of soccer leans against Americans' entertainment tastes. Soccer is a blast to play, but its boring as hell to watch.

Yeah... I don't think soccer is replacing anything, apart from maybe during the world cup months.

Basketball resurgence is more likely!

 

[TylerD]

Big fan of football but haven't watched much lately. Can't remember the last time i watched a game from start to finish.

Whereas I used to look at big hits and go, "whoaaaa, that dude got ROCKED!" now all I think about is, "I hope he's okay"

At some point I just thought it's not worth it anymore.

I still watch it and enjoy it but it seems like every play I'm cringing. The NFL is a machine that uses up players over an average of 2 years and spits them out.

 

[BigDug13]

How can you claim that such a young sport is our past time?

The sport will be replaced by Football, just a brief matter of time.

Spoiler

Even quicker if FIFA makes the right call.

Soccer will never become popular in Capitalist USA because they can't show commercials during the games.

 

[revolverjgw]

Big fan of football but haven't watched much lately. Can't remember the last time i watched a game from start to finish.

Whereas I used to look at big hits and go, "whoaaaa, that dude got ROCKED!" now all I think about is, "I hope he's okay"

At some point I just thought it's not worth it anymore.

I'm the same with that stuff in sports. I've been watching Don Cherry's Rock 'Em Sock 'Em videos for like 25 years, and whereas I used to love watching the hit montages, rewinding them over and over again, now I just cringe and imagine their brains sloshing around and smacking into their skulls. It disturbs me. I don't take pleasure watching somebody get run over in hockey anymore, especially when a hit wasn't necessary to get the puck from them, and is just done to hurt.

 

[Esch]

I would contend the very nature of soccer leans against Americans' entertainment tastes. Soccer is a blast to play, but its boring as hell to watch.

The only reason soccer isn't super popular here in America right now at this very moment is because of a century of mismanagement by various failed leagues. It has nothing to do with your subjective opinion, or a nebulous painting of what Americans supposedly intrinsically like and dislike.

 

[More_Badass]

Fuck. My younger brother started playing football last year. He's 12.

 

[makingmusic476]

Soccer will never become popular in Capitalist USA because they can't show commercials during the games.

If that's what people are watching, that's what they're watching, advertisers be damned. MLS's viewership in the US continues to climb, and games are seeing record sellouts.

The growth is happening, regardless of what TV advertisers may want.