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Ace Attorney Community Thread - MUNCHMUNCHMUNCHMUNCHMUNCH
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
calc84maniac
Member
"Thanks to you, I am missing the NX reveal right now."
In Justice we trust!
Finally beat Dual Destinies. Last case spoilers:
That was a really good last case. Out of all the good endings, I'd say it's last, but it's still good. I'm so bummed it was Fulbright. I really liked that character. I thought it was going to be Aura the whole time. Really solid twist. However it did have problems. Both this case and somewhat Rise from the Ashes do prove that it's kinda necessary to have a break from the courtroom scenes.
i'm seeing some peeps on twitter talk about SoJ doing surprisingly well in the west. this true? any numbers? seeing someone freak out because to them this obviously means we're getting the DGS games ASAP and I feel bad cuz they're seemingly getting their hopes up over nothing :L
Wowfunhappy
Member
I hate having to ask for hints on here, but I've been stuck on this for more than two weeks now, and I don't want to just outright look up a guide.
AA3, Case 2, Part 3 Investigation.
I can't tell whether I actually have the evidence I need--if I don't have it, I'm at a complete loss as to where it could be; it feels like I've looked everywhere.
Hint please? If you can do it without outright telling me the answer, I'd appreciate it!
AA3, Case 2, Part 3 Investigation.
I use the Magnatama on Adrian Andrews. "Maybe the urn isn't the same! It could be a fake! Do you have any evidence the urn that was submitted at the trial was genuine?"
I can't tell whether I actually have the evidence I need--if I don't have it, I'm at a complete loss as to where it could be; it feels like I've looked everywhere.
Hint please? If you can do it without outright telling me the answer, I'd appreciate it!
Magnet_Man
Member
Who would know the most about the urn and could verify if it is the real one?
I wrote a pair of posts about the future of the series: general thoughts, and a more specific post on what AA7 should try to be.
Nocturnowl
Member
A fresh start is what I want from the series more than anything.
I've still yet to finish the DLC case of AA6 because i'm just not engaged at all with its nostalgia hour.
I've still yet to finish the DLC case of AA6 because i'm just not engaged at all with its nostalgia hour.
I agree with some of the points you made and disagree with others. I think the series could definitely use soft reboot as well, that's incredibly unlikely. Still, I think continuing in its current path is a decent alternative; Phoenix Wright as a franchise absolutely lend itself to a serialized story format, and there's still more they can do with the current cast of characters (like what on earth happened with Gumshoe and Franzsika)
I must ask, what character. You mean that flaccid, lazy Phoenix Wright expy, with 0 discernible personality traits beyond being the "straight man" and "is kind of loud"? There is nothing to undermine here. AA4 Apollo is one of the poorest and blandest characters in the franchise, and while his arcs in AA5 and AA6 are disconnected, they represent an attempt at trying to create an actual character.
While contrived, Apollo's backstory in AA6 is the closest thing to a competent backstory in the AA franchise. I mean the only other competition is Edgeworth, because lord knows Phoenix "I wrote this on a napkin at a restaurant" backstory is a joke, and the endlessly recycled backstories for the genki assistants aren't particularly great either. I also think you're shortselling AA6. There are past references, but they're not as overbearing as they were in AA5, and it has one of the strongest emotional cores in the series (Apollo's relationship with Dhurke).
Someone needs to write an essay on how Phoenix Wright has gotten progressively worse as a character, because it's happening at an alarming rate.
davidwhangchoi
Member
i want
to show up.
polly and trucy's mom
BassForever
Member
davidwhangchoi
Member
but they haven't told them
That's true, and one of the points I didn't touch on was that the AA series is basically a long-running procedural at this point. I'm someone who's much more invested in the series for its characters than for its mysteries, so I'm underselling the value of having a consistent murder mystery series.
To be clear, that first line was a pretty big oversimplification I made of my actual opinion.
I'll put aside the question of AA4 Apollo's character for now (I liked him a lot more than most, but I'm also definitely not trying to pretend like AA4 handled him well), but my greater point which I'll write about in that piece is that Apollo feels like a different person in each game, and it's the rare case where I say that not because of his personality (it's fairly well maintained across each one) but because of the plot and his role in it. Apollo's got the unfortunate distinction of being a character whose backstory is rewritten/reijggered each game he appears in just to try and tie him into the main plot.
Again, I'd rather have this talk when I actually post that longer piece, but my main beef with Apollo's AA6 backstory is that it basically rewrites his entire character history to depend on people and places that have never even been alluded to before, and sweeps AA4 and AA5 under the rug. Even 6-2 is focused on Trucy's relation to the Gramaryes, and even that is focused on a "new" Gramarye and pretty much ignores anything related to them from AA4.
This, on the other hand, I will co-sign.
Oh.
Oh damn.
I can't really refute any of that
shoooot
You're absolutely right; it feels like they took their shot at writing Apollo 3 different times. Though where I feel AA6 particularly succeeds is finally landing Apollo's character. Though yeah I guess i'll wait for the full post.
Magnet_Man
Member
So g ood.gif
Fantastic write ups. I'm a little conflicted on Takumi moving away from AA. On the one hand, I absolutely don't want any creative talent in an industry being pigeon-holed, but on the other hand I love his AA games... I definitely don't mind the idea of Yamazaki moving on because while I don't hate or even dislike his games, I feel like his approach to AA is flawed and limited. In a past Gamespot interview, he says that he tries to create a premise that will catch people's attention when you describe it to them, which is why he created the Dark Age of the Law and Khura'in's ludicrous hatred of lawyers. This is the mind-set of a click-bait article and I don't think it should be used as the basis when creating a narrative work like Ace Attorney. He thinks up the premises but can't provide scenarios to justify them. Dark Age was a nothing problem with no impact while Khura'in's attitude was silly and overbearing rather than a compelling conflict. Even with how Maya was practically the center of the advertising effort she herself had little role in the game, but damned if that information didn't get people looking at it.
Gyakuten Saiban 3's trailer is one of the best I've seen while still hyping up the premise of the game with an unexpected situation of young Mia defending a young Phoenix and ending with the tag line "The past and the present intertwine to reveal a single truth".
I'm for a soft-reboot with a new cast and it would work out better this time since AA4's stumble was making it a time-skip, which makes series fans anxious to see what the established cast is doing now rather than looking at the new cast. I'm really curious to see how Switch will impact the series, because while I would love to see the AA games with console-tier graphics, I can't see Capcom investing that kind of money for a series with consistently moderate returns. I'm hoping Switch will have two tiers of releases where one tier has console level production value priced at $60 and a lower tier for handheld level for $40, to hopefully temper consumer expectations when some titles lack that level of graphical complexity. I would love to see AA visuals get that console power so we could get something along the lines of Danganronpa VR's energy (Not in VR though, VR is too obnoxious).
I liked him a lot more in AA4 than later on actually. In 4, he was a bit more assertive and seemed frustrated with how the system actually worked. He meets Phoenix for the first time and Phoenix uses him to his own ends which makes their two ideologies clash, not so subtly expressed when Apollo slugged him. It makes their later interactions very interesting because on the one end, Phoenix provides much needed information and advice from his experience but on the other Apollo doesn't want to be used again so he's trying to stay ahead of Phoenix. It was different take on the student / mentor relationship but it was never faithfully explored and was outright dropped when AA5 returned Phoenix to lovable goofball and Apollo as "second in command".
But even then and across all three games with him, I've never been really attached or interested in Apollo because he lacks clear motivation. I've mentioned it before but we have no idea why he's a lawyer, why he believes in his clients so much, what drives him during court? AA6 is the only one that somewhat addresses this as
, but that's so boring. Even if Phoenix's motivations are simple, they're relatable and empathetic.
Oh god this. I miss the Phoenix that would stare down killers like (1-5 spoiler)
when the entire court and his own client was against him.
Fantastic write ups. I'm a little conflicted on Takumi moving away from AA. On the one hand, I absolutely don't want any creative talent in an industry being pigeon-holed, but on the other hand I love his AA games... I definitely don't mind the idea of Yamazaki moving on because while I don't hate or even dislike his games, I feel like his approach to AA is flawed and limited. In a past Gamespot interview, he says that he tries to create a premise that will catch people's attention when you describe it to them, which is why he created the Dark Age of the Law and Khura'in's ludicrous hatred of lawyers. This is the mind-set of a click-bait article and I don't think it should be used as the basis when creating a narrative work like Ace Attorney. He thinks up the premises but can't provide scenarios to justify them. Dark Age was a nothing problem with no impact while Khura'in's attitude was silly and overbearing rather than a compelling conflict. Even with how Maya was practically the center of the advertising effort she herself had little role in the game, but damned if that information didn't get people looking at it.
Gyakuten Saiban 3's trailer is one of the best I've seen while still hyping up the premise of the game with an unexpected situation of young Mia defending a young Phoenix and ending with the tag line "The past and the present intertwine to reveal a single truth".
I'm for a soft-reboot with a new cast and it would work out better this time since AA4's stumble was making it a time-skip, which makes series fans anxious to see what the established cast is doing now rather than looking at the new cast. I'm really curious to see how Switch will impact the series, because while I would love to see the AA games with console-tier graphics, I can't see Capcom investing that kind of money for a series with consistently moderate returns. I'm hoping Switch will have two tiers of releases where one tier has console level production value priced at $60 and a lower tier for handheld level for $40, to hopefully temper consumer expectations when some titles lack that level of graphical complexity. I would love to see AA visuals get that console power so we could get something along the lines of Danganronpa VR's energy (Not in VR though, VR is too obnoxious).
I liked him a lot more in AA4 than later on actually. In 4, he was a bit more assertive and seemed frustrated with how the system actually worked. He meets Phoenix for the first time and Phoenix uses him to his own ends which makes their two ideologies clash, not so subtly expressed when Apollo slugged him. It makes their later interactions very interesting because on the one end, Phoenix provides much needed information and advice from his experience but on the other Apollo doesn't want to be used again so he's trying to stay ahead of Phoenix. It was different take on the student / mentor relationship but it was never faithfully explored and was outright dropped when AA5 returned Phoenix to lovable goofball and Apollo as "second in command".
But even then and across all three games with him, I've never been really attached or interested in Apollo because he lacks clear motivation. I've mentioned it before but we have no idea why he's a lawyer, why he believes in his clients so much, what drives him during court? AA6 is the only one that somewhat addresses this as
wanted to be like Dhurke
Oh god this. I miss the Phoenix that would stare down killers like (1-5 spoiler)
Gant
Maya is the Kane of the Ace Attorney Universe.
You don't have to convince me of that! Like I said, I actually liked Apollo in AA4, and I miss the slightly more caustic dynamic he had with Phoenix (and to a lesser extent Trucy) in AA4 versus the more traditional mentor/partner relationship he has with Phoenix/Athena in AA5 and AA6.
I mean that Apollo gets the short end of the stick plot-wise in AA4. While I do think Apollo does more than people give him credit for, the game still ends with him basically just presenting some evidence Phoenix has prepared for him, and completely unaware of his personal stakes for the final case. It's unsatisfying and it undermines the idea that AA4 is "Apollo's game", inadvertently setting the stage for Apollo to play second fiddle for the remainder of the second trilogy (or at least until 6-5.)
(Glad you liked the write-ups!)
BassForever
Member
The "we don't know what to do with Apollo" issue along with how poorly he was handled in his introduction game is the biggest reason I've been a member of the "get rid of him" camp for awhile now. I still need to finish AA6 so maybe it'll help me come around on the character more but based upon the above discussion it sounds like AA6 is Apollo take 3 maybe this time it sticks edition.
Nocturnowl
Member
So you're telling me you don't like his current characterisation as bluff man, master of bluffs to the knowledge of everyone who will then call bluff on every bluff that ever bluffed?
Maya took a break for like a decade, Kane is more like Gumshoe, he puts in consistent work and is only now getting phased out.
So I have to do a psychological analysis of a fictional character for my psychology class, and I'm picking Miles Edgeworth. He's surprisingly perfect for this. His entire backstory is exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately it doesn't require too much character development which sucks because Edgeworth's character development is arguably the best in the series.
Also while we're on the topic of AA4, I think it's a good game with a poor ending. I wish Apollo did more in the investigation section of the last case, but it was a cool sequence nonetheless. Also, the stuff with the
doesn't freaking matter with AA5 and 6.
Also while we're on the topic of AA4, I think it's a good game with a poor ending. I wish Apollo did more in the investigation section of the last case, but it was a cool sequence nonetheless. Also, the stuff with the
Jury system
Baleoce
Member
I definitely agree with this.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I don't think they need to completely reboot the franchise to give it new life. They can still use Wright, Apollo and Edgeworth ect it's just they need to do something meaningful with them, that carries some weight and simply doesn't get brushed off by the next game. What was the point of Edgeworth in AA6 really. Nothing he served no purpose. What makes AA1-3 great is that the characters develop and grow and change. AA5 and AA6 they really don't. Apollo maybe a tiny bit but not really. At least as dumb as AA4 was they gave Wright an interesting arc that changed him forever. What lasting thing did AA5 give us? They introduced a new character, that for all intents and purposes wasn't needed.
davidwhangchoi
Member
i'm replaying AA4 after beating spirit of justice...
my gosh AA4 has so much better flow. well at least imo.
i hope next AA is better than spirit of justice...
trucy looks like she has a big head in spirit of justice compared to AA4
my gosh AA4 has so much better flow. well at least imo.
i hope next AA is better than spirit of justice...
trucy looks like she has a big head in spirit of justice compared to AA4
Initial trilogy Phoenix != AA4 Phoenix != AA5 and AA6 Phoenix. "As he is" can mean different things depending on what you're talking about.
I'm finally playing through Layton vs. Wright, up to Chapter 5 now. Every puzzle the game throws at me feels increasingly like just a roadblock between court cases. lol
I just don't care for Layton's puzzles at all. I had a ton of puzzle books as a kid and I feel like I've done most of them before a number of times.
I just don't care for Layton's puzzles at all. I had a ton of puzzle books as a kid and I feel like I've done most of them before a number of times.
I don't think that really applies after AA4, right? I mean, they need to build them up to make them sound like a threat, but neither Blackquill or Sadhmadhi were touted to be prodigies or "final boss level" like all of the initial trilogy prosecutors.
I would like a different dynamic to the prosecutor side in the future, though. It's why I loved it so much when (AA6 spoilers)
the final case had two prosecutors on the opposing bench for the first time in the series. I did feel it brought something different.
(Not quoting to avoid spoilers)
It's probably because I've been going through the entire series rather quickly, but the build-up has kinda become desensitised for me. It's like "oh, this prosecutor is super good, huh? Yeah...like the last 5."
I admit that I'm the problem though.
It's probably because I've been going through the entire series rather quickly, but the build-up has kinda become desensitised for me. It's like "oh, this prosecutor is super good, huh? Yeah...like the last 5."
I admit that I'm the problem though.
BassForever
Member
Godot is an interesting character but he also suffers from not really being much of a challenge. I honestly think Blackquill is tougher as an opponent.
davidwhangchoi
Member
Gavin is the best, i hope he appears again
Magnet_Man
Member
She shouldn't have an accent because she's a native born American / Japanese and was only traveling abroad to Germany / America.
Doom was framed, yo.
You're thinking of Mei Karuma
Franziska von Karma was born and raised in Germany
See, I never gave her a German accent when I first played through the games, but I saw some AA2 gameplay and tried imagining her with a slight german accent and then this happened
It works so well. I seriously missed out
Magnet_Man
Member
I suppose it could work if we assume Manfred was German and also had the accent.
Magnet_Man
Member
The double post! Found a cute little animation put to one of the Japanese Drama CDs provided by The Nostalgic Gamer using translations provided by Rubia the Royal Pomeranian.
Phoenix and Edgeworth team up to help a girl deal with an aggressive admirer at the request of the Chief Prosecutor. Don't expect anything serious.
Turnabout Combination
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Phoenix and Edgeworth team up to help a girl deal with an aggressive admirer at the request of the Chief Prosecutor. Don't expect anything serious.
Turnabout Combination
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
SaintBrody
Banned
I disagree with you when saying AA6 was a mess of throwbacks mashed together. Most of the characters they brought back fit well into the story, even when some didn't have the important roles. For instance, Edgeworth showing up during the latter half of 6-5 makes complete sense given his role as Chief Prosecutor and Phoenix's friend. He doesn't need to have a central role in the story to show up, him just being there reaffirms him as a character and makes for more continuity.
And really what the series needs to focus on is stronger continuity/world building and consistent character development. Apollo's character arc in AA6 was great, it had a really good story behind it and resulted in a permanent change to the series. Problem is his character arc was only really built up from AA6 alone, his story in AA5 contributed nothing in the grand scheme of things and didn't affect his character growth. It also bothers me that Phoenix is an established veteran and still acts like his rookie AA1-3 self in court. At this point in the story, with Phoenix as established as he his, he should be more fucking more confident and mature like his AA4-self. This personality is shown when you're interacting with Phoenix as Apollo/Athena, so I don't understand why it doesn't translate to the actual court segments when you play as Phoenix.