KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Apollo Justice has some real lows, but the first case is one of the very best first cases in the series.
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Ace Attorney Community Thread - MUNCHMUNCHMUNCHMUNCHMUNCH
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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Professor Beef
Banned
I completely agree.
Magnet_Man
Member
Shortened version of 4-4's last trial day
There's a lot to be said about the importance of how a game ends because that is the feeling you're left with once you're back at the title screen and shapes your mindset for that initial reflection on the entire experience, and AA4 ended sour and flaccid.
Kristoph: Why would I kill Drew?
Klavier: You were Zak's attorney! That's why you knew about the forged diary page you told me about, and that I wasn't suspicious of at all! Achtung!
Apollo: That's why you poisoned Drew!
Kristoph: You can't prove that.
Apollo: Don't have to, the jury thinks you smell!
Kristoph: WWRRRRRIIIIIIIIIGGGHHHHHTTT!!!
Klavier: You were Zak's attorney! That's why you knew about the forged diary page you told me about, and that I wasn't suspicious of at all! Achtung!
Apollo: That's why you poisoned Drew!
Kristoph: You can't prove that.
Apollo: Don't have to, the jury thinks you smell!
Kristoph: WWRRRRRIIIIIIIIIGGGHHHHHTTT!!!
There's a lot to be said about the importance of how a game ends because that is the feeling you're left with once you're back at the title screen and shapes your mindset for that initial reflection on the entire experience, and AA4 ended sour and flaccid.
Poltergust
Member
BassForever
Member
Menitta you are going through the AJ cycle where the more you think about how that final case played out, and the overall story AJ was trying to tell, the more and more the game completely falls apart story wise.
I'm at the part where I realize the
jurist system
I still liked it more than AA2 overall because of the character interactions. Again, Ema is fantastic.
I consider AA4 to be one of my favorite games in the series and even I'm not going to try and pretend like 4-4 ends well. I actually really like 4-4's overall case, characters, and the way it ties everything together (give or take
) but ending with a trial where
is the definition of anticlimax.
I respect that Takumi tried to shake things up by having so much of the meat of the case be in the final investigation phase instead of court but ultimately it felt weak.
Phoenix's behavior in the flashback trial
you present like two pieces of evidence, one profile, and do a single Perceive before the jury just fixes everything for you
I respect that Takumi tried to shake things up by having so much of the meat of the case be in the final investigation phase instead of court but ultimately it felt weak.
BassForever
Member
Problems with 4-1 and 4-4
And on a more game focus level of issue
Of course ignoring the glaring plot issues of the game 4-3 is the worst case in the saga (I haven't finished AA6 yet fwiw) and 4-4 completely goes off the rails among other ???? overall plot issues that are never resolved.
Phoenix presents forged evidence in the 4-4 flashback that was given to him by Trucy which he didn't need to present and was goaded into which got him disbarred. Phoenix then makes Trucy do the exact same thing in 4-1 with Apollo but this time "oh the only way you'd know it was fake is if you have the real one" and somehow Apollo wins and gets to keep his badge. What was the point of Shadi trying to expose Phoenix's poker winning streak or any of the nonsense with the waitress girl if he was really Zack and was worried about the Kristoph's ghost or w/e nonsense was the reason he originally met with Phoenix.
And on a more game focus level of issue
The story focuses on the Gavins but Klavier has no character and Kristoph is the bad guy too easily in 4-1. WE never see Klavier ever antagonist towards Apollo either for putting his brother away or for working with his brother and following his ideals which Klavier doesn't agree with.
Of course ignoring the glaring plot issues of the game 4-3 is the worst case in the saga (I haven't finished AA6 yet fwiw) and 4-4 completely goes off the rails among other ???? overall plot issues that are never resolved.
Slime Scholar
Member
If we're talking about glaring plot holes/issues with AA4's story, what about Valant?
In 4-3, he performs a magic trick with Lamiroir, who we later find out is actually Thalassa Gramarye, a woman he was deeply in love with before she disappeared and was presumed dead. Why wasn't he able to recognize her? He had to have met her and interacted with her when creating the trick for her show (which involved him actually disguising as Lamiroir, IIRC). He's even the one to tell you that Thalassa might be alive and brings up the fact that her body was never recovered, so why was he never able to piece this together when he finally met her again?
AA4 also has a superb case 2
The rest of the game is pretty disappointing, however and Apollo Justice himself (in AA4) is terrible.
Case 4 could have been so much better if the execution was better, but
The rest of the game is pretty disappointing, however and Apollo Justice himself (in AA4) is terrible.
Case 4 could have been so much better if the execution was better, but
it's predicated on Kristoph being a good antagonist, and he's well...not.
davidwhangchoi
Member
Matt Attack
Member
4-4's climax is almost inarguably weak, but I will say that the Day 1 Investigation in Misham's studio might be my favorite investigation in the series.
Looking under the paintings and seeing Apollo's previous cases was such a cool moment.
BassForever
Member
Except
there's no pay off for this at all in fact those 3 paintings are never presented or mentioned again in the case iirc
Her return to her peppy personality in AA6 wouldn't be nearly as effective without AA4 either, at least in my opinion. She's actually struggled to get there.
This is such a minor complaint but I hate it how the assistant in cases are on opposite sides during trials in Dual Destinies (and I assume SoJ). Maya, Trucy, etc. has always been on the right side of Phoenix or Apollo and now they're on the left. It's so trivial, but I don't like it.
To be fair, the movie and PLvsPW have it set up like that as well and they came out before DD. I don't know why they changed it, but it seems like it's a series-wide change.
The music in this Capcom UK giveaway video: https://twitter.com/Capcom_UK/status/784433035211046912
Why.
Why.
Now that's just mean. They're practically waving it at our faces at this point.
Magnet_Man
Member
Capcom UK twitter? Surprised they didn't throw out "we'd love to release it, but it's too bad the fans didn't get more involved."
My guess is that it's something to do with the 180 degree rule. There's 5 main "views" in the court segments: the defense/prosecution bench, the witness, the assistant, the judge, and the wide gallery view. If you look at the court images, you can clearly place the location of the camera.
The lawyers and the witness are all clearly from the same spot, since it pans from side to side. This is from the judge's perspective. The judge is viewed from the witness stand opposite the judge. The gallery is viewed from opposite the judge as well. But the assistant is to the left of the defense in the DS games and to the right in the 3DS games. So, that's viewed from opposite the judge and from the judge respectively.
So, if, for instance, the following exchange occurred, with the Judge's view being labeled "front" and the opposite being "back":
Witness: The murder occurred at 2:00. (1)
Defense: No, it was actually 3:00! (2)
*gallery mumbles* (3)
Judge: Order! (4)
Prosecution: Do you have evidence to back that wild claim? (5)
Defense: Of course I do! (6)
Assistant: Why would the witness lie about that? (7)
Defense: I don't know, but we've got to press any hole we find. (8)
Y'know just some generic dialogue like that's been done in the series countless times over. If you follow the DS games' approach, it would be:
1 - front
2 - front
3 - back
4 - back
5 - front
6 - front
7 - back
8 - front
That's four abrupt angle changes in a short span, while the 3DS games would switch 7 to "front" and only have two. The more abrupt these things happen, the more spacially confused the audience is. It's not as big a deal in a confined setting like this, but that's probably what the developers were doing. They were "fixing" the spacial awareness problem that they had before. I'm sure the assistant was to the left originally so that back view clearly shows Phoenix and the prosecutor in the gallery shot, but they must have preferred this to that and switched it.
Now, as for why everyone seems to talk at the exact same witness stand, even when it's two characters talking to each other, I have no fucking idea.
what
why does capcom uk even have DGS music anyway? surely someone would've had to go out of their way to get that track in that division >>
Hours Left
Member
What an unfortunate tease if nothing comes from this. 
At first thought that Case 2 of DD was dumb, but everything about Maya Fey is dumb too so...
I'd buy a UK 2DS for that.
I'd buy a UK 2DS for that.
Matt Attack
Member
What an unfortunate tease if nothing comes from this.
Tell me about it. D:
BassForever
Member
Probably at the same time if you own a 3ds you can probably track down the ds version and play it.
Nocturnowl
Member
Probably not quite as much as "THIS MURDER ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE AT A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LOCATION!"
So hype it's coming to Android. Hopefully this brings the other games too
I have the cart for AA4. But I want all AA in digital format.
I hope they consider DGS.
Poltergust
Member
So the fan translation for DGS appears to be much further along than I thought.
I just hope it matches the quality of AAI2's fan translation.
I just hope it matches the quality of AAI2's fan translation.
Magnet_Man
Member
Very glad progress is being made.
What I'm really impressed by is how effectively they can manipulate the models and text boxes. I don't believe that entire sequence was taking a scene from the game and just replacing the dialogue as I don't recall a moment that Asougi did his laughing animation during court, so I think that was a series of spliced animations and camera angles. What I'm surprised by is the hand on the chin with darting eyes that Naruhodo did. I can't remember seeing that animation in any of my playthroughs. Either it shows up in one of the unnecessary press / penalty / testimony loop that I never encountered (I avoid the "press every statement" strategy whenever I can, even though it means I miss dialogue. I just don't like doing it), was unused data like Phoenix's heart eyes, or that was a splice of his normal darting eyes model and his thinking model. The latter would be very impressive and would be very telling of their graphical editing requests they sent out.
Their text box work is also very impressive as it had pauses, varying speeds, timed sound effects, and interruptions while still having the lip flaps properly function in tune with them. All in all that's a very impressive and promising tech demo showing how they've come along, especially with the difficult part of manipulating the game data. If they can get it down to a simple process, then that would make DGS 2's potential patch that much easier to do.
What I'm really impressed by is how effectively they can manipulate the models and text boxes. I don't believe that entire sequence was taking a scene from the game and just replacing the dialogue as I don't recall a moment that Asougi did his laughing animation during court, so I think that was a series of spliced animations and camera angles. What I'm surprised by is the hand on the chin with darting eyes that Naruhodo did. I can't remember seeing that animation in any of my playthroughs. Either it shows up in one of the unnecessary press / penalty / testimony loop that I never encountered (I avoid the "press every statement" strategy whenever I can, even though it means I miss dialogue. I just don't like doing it), was unused data like Phoenix's heart eyes, or that was a splice of his normal darting eyes model and his thinking model. The latter would be very impressive and would be very telling of their graphical editing requests they sent out.
Their text box work is also very impressive as it had pauses, varying speeds, timed sound effects, and interruptions while still having the lip flaps properly function in tune with them. All in all that's a very impressive and promising tech demo showing how they've come along, especially with the difficult part of manipulating the game data. If they can get it down to a simple process, then that would make DGS 2's potential patch that much easier to do.
davidwhangchoi
Member
this is good news =)
StarStabbedMoon
Member
As far as I know, the only main thing that was graphically edited in was Jezail's exclamation at the end. The animations and scene were all programmed. It did replace an actual scene in the game, but it was essentially wiped and remade into what you see in the video.
Magnet_Man
Member
Huh, that's strange.
I've played through DGS four times and I've never seen Naruhodo do his eye darting animation during that thinking model, just during his standing, hand raised, and with both hands on the desk. I also haven't seen Asougi laugh mid-trial.
When does this scene happen? I'm guessing after an incorrect response to a question?
I've played through DGS four times and I've never seen Naruhodo do his eye darting animation during that thinking model, just during his standing, hand raised, and with both hands on the desk. I also haven't seen Asougi laugh mid-trial.
When does this scene happen? I'm guessing after an incorrect response to a question?
I'm a little bummed right now. I just finished act 3 of the first game and had to consult a FAQ to do so. It was the end when you get Vasquez to change up her wording and I had no clue what to present when, although I felt it had to be during the new statement portion. I told myself I wouldn't cheat in that way with this series since that IS the gameplay portion of the game, but the outcome of the case felt convoluted. I'm sure it only gets worse as you delve deeper into the series. Once you break the game initially, it's easy to do so again and continue to look things up at the first sign of a roadblock. I feel turned off on the game now.
Poltergust
Member
Wait, how is it convoluted?
You're talking about her mistaking Will Power's injury to be Jack Hammer's, right? That's pretty straightforward.
I guess. For whatever reason I didn't equate what she was saying to that piece of evidence. I'm normally really good about deducting things like that. The whole reasoning behind all of it felt needlessly convoluted. It's probably just me.
Magnet_Man
Member
What matters is realizing the contradiction and the issue is not being sure what evidence proves that, because you found the twist the game wanted you to spot. What's really frustrating is when you jump ahead with your thought process and try to prove something too far down the line, just to need to answer that immediately after.
Either way, it happens to everyone at some point. Don't let it get you down.
You realized the important issue which is Vasquez thinking Hammer was injured and not. The twisted ankle mix up could only be logically proven by either the spear since it was broken when the ankle got twisted or the Steel Samurai dragging his leg photo. The game doesn't accept the spear so it falls to the photo mainly because it's more direct and answers why the confusion happened in the first place. I'd chalk up your difficulty with finding what to present with over thinking or being tired. At least that's what I've seen watching people on Twitch and such play these blind.
Either way, it happens to everyone at some point. Don't let it get you down.
Hours Left
Member
Yes. Playing them in release order is imperative.
Wowfunhappy
Member
So I'm on Episode 2 of AA3, and I've got to say... Godot is freaking awesome. I've never really been a fan of any of the prosecutors, other than Edgeworth, I guess, but Godot... he's intimidating, and fun to clash with, but also smart, and he has a smoothness I've never really experienced from any character in this series.
Edit: And now he
!
Edit: And now he
just threw his mug of coffee on Pheonix
I'm shocked
Case 4 is really good so far. I think I know what happened, but I'm not sure.
has probably the best character design in the game so far. Still not a fan of Blackquil. That pointing at his head animation got really annoying really quickly.
how little Phoenix is in Dual Destinies.
Case 4 is really good so far. I think I know what happened, but I'm not sure.
Aura