Activision Blizzard Executive Brian Bulatao attempting to do union busting

It's when it involves subordinates.. or things like.. clients.. is where the lines get crossed.

And if your "habit" is to "sexually harass".. then.. yeah, that's a serious issue.

It is, but the plain fact is what's now considered to be harassment is very different from what it used to be. Socially acceptable norms are a lot more stringent, which is in many ways a good thing, but I feel like its gotten to a point of over-correction and its being abused as a status tool.

As I wrote before it all seems inextricably linked with wokism, which as an adjunct of progressivism is an undeniably real socio-political movement that has been in the ascendant for the past few years. So, whether you agree or disagree with its aims, I think we can all agree that it is a thing that is actively shaping social policy, including labour relations policy.

I guess the crux of the matter for me is that expecting people's behaviours to change in lockstep with political change is a pretty big ask, especially when there hasn't been a "day-zero" amnesty allowing everyone a fresh start. So when things from nearly a decade ago ("Cosby suite" et. al) get dredged up to bolster allegations made contemporaneously... I can't help but see it as a power play.
 
Unions used to be fine when the Pinkertons were around. It's not the 1900s anymore and they're just as corrupt than any other organization. They claim to be "for the workers" but leave out that they are taking money from the workers. I absolutely support collective bargaining, but despise unions and their politics.
 
Yet you plaster it all over a public forum. Hypocrite, lol.

Huh? I don't give 2 shits if Activision executives are coke snorting degenerates.. I'm no hypocrite. I'm not some uppity fun-ruiner.


It is, but the plain fact is what's now considered to be harassment is very different from what it used to be. Socially acceptable norms are a lot more stringent, which is in many ways a good thing, but I feel like its gotten to a point of over-correction and its being abused as a status tool.

Well norms used to be pretty fucked up. Norms change, that's just how society is.

I don't know where anyone is getting that things have gone too far, or that sexual harassment claims/particularly those that get "Actioned" are all that prevalent.

Yes you probably shouldn't end a work sanctioned happy hour with a trip to the strip club.. or get a hotel room with "the boys" and joke around about fucking.. customers... but even having said that.. that shit still happens all the time. Keep it quiet, and know your risk.

Or just.. don't do it.. life will move on.. keep that shit separate from work.
 
The majority of the biggest companies in the world have hardly any or possibly even zero union workers. That tells you a lot. And it's not like people make bad salaries. Most of the big union kinds of jobs like manufacturing and airlines are a fraction of what they were 40 years ago. Outsourced to people half way around the world who can make it just as good quality for half the costs.

If you cant hold onto a job because execs think setting up a factory 10000 miles away using their locals to make stuff just shows you're not as good as you think. So I get why you want a union to protect your job.

If you're someone who desperately needs job security and know deep down you'll have a tough time keeping a job, it's in your best interest to get a union job. If you want freedom, and know you can cut it (not lazy needing a union rep protecting you), or prefer negotiating your own deals and arent afraid interacting with bosses direct with annual performance evaluations, dont join a union.

 
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Huh? I don't give 2 shits if Activision executives are coke snorting degenerates.. I'm no hypocrite. I'm not some uppity fun-ruiner.




Well norms used to be pretty fucked up. Norms change, that's just how society is.

I don't know where anyone is getting that things have gone too far, or that sexual harassment claims/particularly those that get "Actioned" are all that prevalent.

Yes you probably shouldn't end a work sanctioned happy hour with a trip to the strip club.. or get a hotel room with "the boys" and joke around about fucking.. customers... but even having said that.. that shit still happens all the time. Keep it quiet, and know your risk.

Or just.. don't do it.. life will move on.. keep that shit separate from work.

But its all so unnecessary.

You might not be (and I'll take you at your word) a "fun-ruiner", but some of these motherfuckers are! Some people are ever willing and ready to be offended on other people's behalf, whether or not those folks were actually are offended in the first place.

When I'm talking about over-correction don't just think about really nasty, dark stuff. Think about light, frivolous stuff like people making joke posts on the studio intranet. For example the photo-thread thing that was part of the Quantic Dream controversy where they had photoshopped David Cage's head on nazi, or some gay porn or whatever.

Who's being "oppressed" by that? It might be bad taste and juvenile, but so fucking what?

Game-dev used to be fun. It was a loose thing which was great for creativity. Was it a bit of a "boy's club"? Yes. It was. But it was more chess club than fight club, and the only reason it was male dominated was because for many years women weren't actually that interested and thus the workforce was predominantly male.

This is how culture's develop organically. Yet now we're supposed to look back, shake our heads and act like it was planned as exclusionary!
 
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I wish we had some input from someone who actually still works at Blizzard now. Are you trapped there against your will? Is the job market/economy so bad you feel you would run out of financial security if you left? Are you afraid your skills don't translate elsewhere? Or do you personally have an okay time there despite what is reported about the politics and behavior? I'm just so curious.

I consider myself kind of privaleged in that I never suffered fools and poor treatment at a workplace. If I felt the quality, people, and vision of others was awful, I was immediately looking for greener pastures. For example, as a nurse, you will NEVER ever EVER catch me in a Skilled Nursing Facility. The way the USA treats their elders is fucking gross. I'd sooner cut off my arm than continue to serve those institutions.
 
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Game-dev used to be fun. It was a loose thing which was great for creativity. Was it a bit of a "boy's club"? Yes. It was. But it was more chess club than fight club, and the only reason it was male dominated was because for many years women weren't actually that interested and thus the workforce was predominantly male.

This is how culture's develop organically. Yet now we're supposed to look back, shake our heads and act like it was planned as exclusionary!

It's not just about being planned or anything nefarious; it's a self perpetuating cycle though. Women who are interested in getting into tech/development often leave because.. well.. "boys club."

And these industries are missing out on a lot of talent; the software development industry as a whole is thirsty to increase it's workforce, desperate for new hires. Being "inclusive" isn't just some woke BS, it's a way to improve a workforce, because there are some damn good women programmers, creatives, whatever out there. The faster you make things more even, the greater chance more women will stick around.. the more money you can make.

What does any of that even have to do with creativity? People can be laid back and have fun w/o being immature as shit. Try being actually clever/funny for once. lol I joke around all the time at work, I get pretty drunk at work gatherings.. hell I've dropped acid at a holiday party.. and I work for a high end consulting firm. I'm funny as shit.. I let loose.. I have no issues with HR.. nor does anyone I work with who do a lot of the same shit. We have great times on our Teams chat too..

I'm not saying being a bit immature can't be fun sometimes; but just keep it out of work. It's really not that fucking hard. You might actually find yourself being funny.
 
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When I'm talking about over-correction don't just think about really nasty, dark stuff. Think about light, frivolous stuff like people making joke posts on the studio intranet. For example the photo-thread thing that was part of the Quantic Dream controversy where they had photoshopped David Cage's head on nazi, or some gay porn or whatever.

Wait, let me get this straight, this is what you think is "frivolous"?

After the revelation of the existence and the diffusion within the company of toxic and degrading photomontages, the employee was interviewed by an employee representative, also author of some of the photomontages. He asked her for a certificate stating that she had not been offended by these « artworks ». One of them targeted her with the words « all women are born equal but the best ones become accountants », accountants being crossed out and replaced by « whore ». The employee refused.

Stopping men from saying "the best women become whores" at work, is unnecessary, and stifles creativity?
 
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I have never seen anyone fired out of the probably 1000 people Ive worked at in head offices just for kicks, where the company is doing well, the person is liked and does a good job and isnt some stodgy old timer milking it. But management some reason gasses random people for no good reason. Never seen it.

I may not be a good example since it wasn't an "office" job, but I actually am an example of someone who was fired (after several years in a company) one day because the boss was in a foul mood and decided he didn't want to deal with me in the store anymore. Let's just say the timing of his decision was actually really bad for him, and he was forced to promote someone else he wanted to get rid of to make up for the long hours I was doing before that point because it turned out I was not as replaceable as he thought I was. (Not exactly a story for or against unions, as I never got into a business that had one. Just a general workplace anecdote.)

I've since got a new job that pays more per hour, needless to say.
 
Wait, let me get this straight, this is what you think is "frivolous"?



Stopping men from saying "the best women become whores" at work, is unnecessary, and stifles creativity?

That's evidently overstepping, but to be honest I'm less than convinced that the excerpt you cited can be taken at face value.

For example it starts out with the assertion of "toxic and degrading photomontages" which may be true, but that's a subjective evaluation and doesn't state who precisely was being "degraded". Which matters because within the text you cited the inference is that it was female staffers targetted, which obviously comes across as being more egregiously malevolent than if all members of staff, male and female, including senior management (which we know to be true, the images are out there) were part of the "joke".

You have to remember this sort of evidence is used to create a legal narrative, and its incentivized financially to slant it in a certain direction.

As to the actual content. Well, once again you have an interesting interpretation where a statement referencing "all women... and the best become..." is presented as targeting the complainant specifically. Which it doesn't really do. The whole thing seems kinda fishy to me, especially if you know the offending word in French was likely "Putain", which technically means whore but is used as a general expletive in that language.

The point I'm getting at is low and unfunny as it sounds, I wouldn't automatically leap to it being more than a bad attempt at humour. And that being the case, what sort of penalty is appropriate for making it? Is that really something that demands more than a reprimand?

Do you believe that anyone was actually so damaged by this that they deserve legal remedy?

To answer your point, my problem is that if people become so concerned about inadvertently triggering some snowflake every time they make an ill-considered comment or post, they will inevitably start self-censoring to protect themselves. That mode of thinking impinges upon the creative impulse in my opinion. I don't think its a good idea to allow a tyranny of the thin-skinned in an environment which often resolves to a battle of ideas.
 
I can't wait for the industry to fully unionize so instead of waiting 3 to 4 years for a game to release it will be 6 to 7 years. We'll see work stoppages and everytime a developer claims harassment or poor working conditions then every company will strike and nothing will get done.

Oh and because they unionize companies won't hire as many people because what game developer is going to pay for health insurance and benefits for multiple studios with hundreds of employees? The answer is not many. I can't wait to read articles about studios closing down because the games it took 6 years to make didn't sell 2 .5 million copies to break even. Unionizing sounds great on paper until a company decides that they're going to downsize and then pass what someone else's work would be on to you.

The same shit happens in grocery retail you become ahead of a department. Then because the store doesn't want to hire more help they just give you more work to do. Now you're doing an order, unloading the truck, cleaning the shelves, rotating stock etc. Oh someone from your department decided that they were gonna take a week off? You have to come in and do their job now on top of doing your own. Being in a leadership position in a gaming company that's unionized would be a fucking nightmare.

Did you want to negotiate a new contract with the company you work for? Yeah that company's gonna have all the leverage because they can just replace you with somebody who just graduated from college and paid them about 30 to 40% less than what they pay you even though that you've worked for so many years in the video game industry. Why? Because they don't have to keep you after your contract is up. In fact they don't have to negotiate with any union and just hire temp workers which is what they'll do.
 
I can't wait for the industry to fully unionize so instead of waiting 3 to 4 years for a game to release it will be 6 to 7 years. We'll see work stoppages and everytime a developer claims harassment or poor working conditions then every company will strike and nothing will get done.

Oh and because they unionize companies won't hire as many people because what game developer is going to pay for health insurance and benefits for multiple studios with hundreds of employees? The answer is not many. I can't wait to read articles about studios closing down because the games it took 6 years to make didn't sell 2 .5 million copies to break even. Unionizing sounds great on paper until a company decides that they're going to downsize and then pass what someone else's work would be on to you.

The same shit happens in grocery retail you become ahead of a department. Then because the store doesn't want to hire more help they just give you more work to do. Now you're doing an order, unloading the truck, cleaning the shelves, rotating stock etc. Oh someone from your department decided that they were gonna take a week off? You have to come in and do their job now on top of doing your own. Being in a leadership position in a gaming company that's unionized would be a fucking nightmare.

Did you want to negotiate a new contract with the company you work for? Yeah that company's gonna have all the leverage because they can just replace you with somebody who just graduated from college and paid them about 30 to 40% less than what they pay you even though that you've worked for so many years in the video game industry. Why? Because they don't have to keep you after your contract is up. In fact they don't have to negotiate with any union and just hire temp workers which is what they'll do.
Yup.

Games will take longer to make. But it's not like a game taking longer to release means higher sales go with it.

So if game unions win, that's fine you got your 9-5 job. But now the studio has a choice. Take much longer to release the game, or release the game as scheduled but it'll be much shorter or shittier. Or somewhere in the middle. Either way, something has to give.

A unionized office of any sort would be a nightmare. There's already enough people I've seen going on sick leave here and there due to a real illness. It'll probably 5-fold as people take advantage of being absentee and the union protects them. You see it all the time. Contract time is coming and somehow all these unionized workers call in sick at the same time.

Unions jobs are often very specific by agreement, as the worker doesn't want responsibility to do any more than stated on that piece of paper. I've seen it myself. Had a government union worker join one of my old companies back in the day and she made an issue with the director because he wanted her to do something not on the job description.

Ridiculous.

That job description probably has vague statements about the role and maybe 10 bullet points. How anyone can think you should only do those tasks forever is insane. It'd be like getting hired for an office job and since it didn't say you had to make Powerpoint slides, you never have to make one forever. It's not like he asked her to be a janitor of cafeteria cook. Office jobs by nature are flexible and you need to do different things or pinch hit if another department needs help.

That's the mentality of a union worker.

At one of my old jobs we were pushing to make the quarter so the VP of our division asked us to go down to the shipping bay and help out doing basic tasks like wrapping skids and moving them to the shipping area lined up. Not a hard job to do. I've done that before. It was even easier as the company had automated wrapping machines while I had to hand bomb wrapping by hand with a manual handheld gadget at my summer job before. Easy as fuck.

The union members down in the warehouse floor made a stink about it. Even to a VP. They didnt want us touching the skids. Many of us have experience doing this shit (I know how to drive a forklift too), so were here just to help. Not take your jobs. So relax.

Well, if you lazy fucks hurried up and hustled (it's amazing... if you've ever been in a warehouse/shipping area how much they stroll around with little hustle), we'd make the quarter and everyone is happy. The image of a blue collar warehouse guy is a dude sweating working asap to fill trucks. What a crock of shit that is. During university I worked at 3 summer jobs where I did blue collar work. Nobody was hustling like their life depended on it. The only big hassle I saw was one time the truck backed into the shipping bay and there was a gap so our forklift got stuck as the wheel got lodged in the hole. It took another forklift to get some straps and try pulling it loose. Was much harder than it looks, as if it fucked up that forklift might crash land below if the truck move away. Our department does the sales and finance. You fucks get it out the door.
 
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A video game union specifically would be a complete disaster. think about the people who'd get these positions they are going to be the twitter type and will push for absurd things that won't in the slightest make games better.

You see these weirdo circles in the realm of gaming industry influencers they're all exclusively of a particular ilk and they will jump at the opportunity to claw more social clout. not being able to fire bad/lazy employees will be the least of their worries. Unions in general I can see both sides but one for gaming that is going to be something else.

OHTHYbv.jpg
It's always the worst people that get into positions of power.
 
Oh and because they unionize companies won't hire as many people because what game developer is going to pay for health insurance and benefits for multiple studios with hundreds of employees? The answer is not many. I can't wait to read articles about studios closing down because the games it took 6 years to make didn't sell 2 .5 million copies to break even. Unionizing sounds great on paper until a company decides that they're going to downsize and then pass what someone else's work would be on to you.

The same shit happens in grocery retail you become ahead of a department. Then because the store doesn't want to hire more help they just give you more work to do. Now you're doing an order, unloading the truck, cleaning the shelves, rotating stock etc. Oh someone from your department decided that they were gonna take a week off? You have to come in and do their job now on top of doing your own. Being in a leadership position in a gaming company that's unionized would be a fucking nightmare.

This stuff already happens in non-unionized jobs all the time; Places I've worked are constantly understaffed and I myself was frequently made to do more work to make up for the lack of new hires, slackers or people who took a week off at once. Often, the understaffed aspect of a business is by design of the company itself, and they'd rather have as little hires as possible. I'm not entirely sure how the jobs being unionized actually changes things here.

Heck, ABK themselves are known to have "downsized" after posting record profits.
 
This stuff already happens in non-unionized jobs all the time; Places I've worked are constantly understaffed and I myself was frequently made to do more work to make up for the lack of new hires, slackers or people who took a week off at once. Often, the understaffed aspect of a business is by design of the company itself, and they'd rather have as little hires as possible. I'm not entirely sure how the jobs being unionized actually changes things here.

Heck, ABK themselves are known to have "downsized" after posting record profits.
The thinking for unionized staff (job security) is that employee count can only go up as it's hard to fire people (not impossible but hard). And if some union workers have to go, it's often done by seniority level not performance. So a 10 year vet who slacks off would have preferential treatment over a year 5 guy who does a great job.

And the reason why you cant even really rate people on performance is because most union jobs have zero accountability or performance reviews, so it's even hard to evaluate 100 people to see who is bad and who is great. The pool of workers all get blended in. So the union tries to design deals like that. Thats why in every union/management deal you see where it's in public view with two sides battling, you never see anything about performance, quality improvements, timeliness or accuracy etc.... It basically comes down to money, sick day pay and things like that.

So even if a company is doing poorly and needs to claw back, a job security deal makes it tough for a company from saving costs from the union pool of labour. So the first things to go would be non-union workers.
 
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And what if the union members like a workplace deal that protects bad workers from getting fired.

Then what?
Then you lose the election. But I have never seen or heard anyone standing on "protect the bad workers" policy.

If there were many useless people the majority will surely be disgruntled at picking up their slack. Most union members just want fair pay for fair work.

I was not 100% happy with my union, so I stood, got elected and made the changes I wanted. It is possible. If you're the guy who can think of solutions (acceptable to the company as well as the workers) and not just bang on about problems, then you are probably the type to get things done and the type people want to have on their ballot.
 
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That's evidently overstepping, but to be honest I'm less than convinced that the excerpt you cited can be taken at face value.

For example it starts out with the assertion of "toxic and degrading photomontages" which may be true, but that's a subjective evaluation and (1) doesn't state who precisely was being "degraded". Which matters because within the text you cited the inference is that it was female staffers targetted, which obviously comes across as being more egregiously malevolent than if all members of staff, male and female, including senior management (which we know to be true, the images are out there) were part of the "joke".

You have to remember this sort of evidence is used to create a legal narrative, and its incentivized financially to slant it in a certain direction.

As to the actual content. Well, once again you have an interesting interpretation where a statement referencing "all women... and the best become..." (2)is presented as targeting the complainant specifically. Which it doesn't really do. The whole thing seems kinda fishy to me, especially if you know the offending word in French was likely "Putain", which technically means whore but is used as a general expletive in that language.

The point I'm getting at is low and unfunny as it sounds, I wouldn't automatically leap to it being more than a bad attempt at humour. And that being the case, what sort of penalty is appropriate for making it? (3)Is that really something that demands more than a reprimand?

(4)Do you believe that anyone was actually so damaged by this that they deserve legal remedy?

To answer your point, my problem is that if people become so concerned about inadvertently triggering some snowflake every time they make an ill-considered comment or post, they will inevitably start self-censoring to protect themselves. (5)That mode of thinking impinges upon the creative impulse in my opinion. I don't think its a good idea to allow a tyranny of the thin-skinned in an environment which often resolves to a battle of ideas.

Sorry for late reply, but this got bumped, so here goes

1) Individuals being targeted is different than joking "all women are better if they are whores". If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you; in the United States for instance, that's specifically illegal to target people at a place of employment based on their gender. You might disagree with that, but it's based on longstanding prejudice against women in workplaces. And why would a lawsuit for a specific individual somehow take into account that other people were targeted?
2) It is well documented that the photos in question used actual pictures of the employees in the lawsuit. The joke about "whores" took their faces and photoshopped them on other people's bodies. There is no "legal narrative" here, they were targeted.
3) That's obviously subjective. I've never witnessed anything remotely close to that working as a professional in corporate America the last 25 years, this shit is shocking, and it has no place at work to me. You seem to disagree, but again quite subjective. But humor is a powerful thing, used to degrade people since the beginning of human language. "It's just jokes" is just such an odd attitude to me. These people are also at work, not being paid to be standup comics. At bare minimum, there should be a formal reprimand, something documented.. and workplaces should have well documented HR practices. Many do in the US, you have warnings of varying levels, documented, and then if you fuck up again you get fired based on policy. A boss simply "reprimanding" you is rather meaningless.
4) Well, she was fired. She believes it was because of her complaints about the pictures. Initially the court agreed at least. We don't have all the info.
5) Their job has absolutely nothing to do with childish jokes. "Hey don't suggest your co-workers are whores" infringes on their creative process? I'm so baffled by this suggestion.
 
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Could MS just dump that division when they take over?

They can, get shit on by the media, likely sued, and probably lose that lawsuit.

So they kinda can't. But it also depends on how well the union was formed how much it matters. Unions are just collective bargaining groups, you don't as an employer have to agree to their terms, and then the employees can choose to go on strike, and that causes a media/PR issue at times. They also don't always have unreasonable terms they are asking for.

But just axxing an entire group? I mean, not sure the justification. Raven needs QA, and QA isn't some centralized thing across MGS.
 
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We have a thread about this already. These are temps, not even actual Raven employees, attempting to unionize. They'll be working at McDonalds next week.

It doesn't really matter..civil suits are civil suits, and temp workers are still workers.

MS wouldn't get fined (by the government) necessarily, or.. anyone arrested. They'd have a lawsuit and a PR nightmare on their hands though.

During an FTC approval process where a congressman specifically said they are focused on looking at MS improving working conditions?
 
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And? Microsoft has nothing to do with Activision until the deal closes. These temps will be replaced (and likely fired by their temp agency for being fucking idiots) long before MS has any say.
 
Good for raven. Protect yourself from crunch and get incentives into your contracts like the executives do. The people making the games should get in on the ridiculous profits these games make.
 
And? Microsoft has nothing to do with Activision until the deal closes. These temps will be replaced (and likely fired by their temp agency for being fucking idiots) long before MS has any say.

Look at the question I answered.

And why does it matter? If Raven / Activision are embroiled in a lawsuit, MS inherits that suit when they buy them.

Lawsuits can also complicate/extend approval processes as lawyers sometimes argue that it interrupts an ongoing case.
 
Good for raven. Protect yourself from crunch and get incentives into your contracts like the executives do. The people making the games should get in on the ridiculous profits these games make.

These aren't the people making the games. This is about 32 temporary QA testers.
 
We have a thread about this already. These are temps, not even actual Raven employees, attempting to unionize. They'll be working at McDonalds next week.
These workers arent even official Activision employees and they want to union against a company?

LOL.

They'd be like temp workers in our finance department hired every year to help out close some end of year financials and tax stuff trying to unionize because they got a deadline to finish their work by end of January.

Good luck with that!
 
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