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[Delta Assault]

Ya know, looking at that bruise on her boob... I'm not sure that really signifies anything. I used to play paintball and getting shot would result in bruises that looked even uglier and more discolored. The appearance is far worse than the actual bruise.

 

[kame-sennin]

So you're saying, as the jury decided, she assaulted someone.

No, I'm saying it's not clear what happened based on that video. You can't even tell if she connects with anything. Also, the defense's argument is not that she didn't hit the officer. It's that she didn't knowingly assault him. That video doesn't make it clear one way or the other. All you can see is a woman flailing, while the officers around her are barely visible. The use of the video was intentionally misleading.

Thread title is a little misleading. Imho

She doesn't deserve seven years but she definitely elbowed the guy hard.\

Wait....was she already sentenced or not? Thread title is misleading if not.

"(she's facing a possible )7 year sentence" doesn't fit in the title. The first quote in the OP makes it clear that sentencing hasn't happened yet. Heaven forbid anyone reads the article.

 

[Enron]

Ya know, looking at that bruise on her boob... I'm not sure that really signifies anything. I used to play paintball and getting shot would result in bruises that looked even uglier and more discolored. The appearance is far worse than the actual bruise.

The cop's bruise was probably worse

 

[Delta Assault]

No, I'm saying it's not clear what happened based on that video. You can't even tell if she connects with anything. Also, the defense's argument is not that she didn't hit the officer. It's that she didn't knowingly assault him. That video doesn't make it clear one way or the other. All you can see is a woman flailing, while the officers around her are barely visible. The use of the video was intentionally misleading.

Dude, what? The video isn't 1080p, but she was clearly not flailing around. Flailing around is what Elaine does when she dances on Seinfeld. That girl straight up cocked her elbow and went leaping for the moon.

Edit: And the not knowing who it was defense is laughable. You can see a veritable sea of black police uniforms that she's swimming through.

 

[Coins]

The video is crystal clear. She cocked her elbow, bent down, and fucking clocked the dude in the face. She's guilty.

 

[Jenov]

Better article http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...reet-protester-hitting-face-article-1.1758909

 

[Kinyou]

btw. I find it weird that some of the jurors were shocked to learn that she could go to jail for this. Don't they get properly instructed before a trial?

 

[Loofy]

Ya know, looking at that bruise on her boob... I'm not sure that really signifies anything.

She was groped.

 

[NH Apache]

btw. I find it weird that some of the jurors were shocked to learn that she could go to jail for this. Don't they get properly instructed before a trial?

Yeah...there's articles from before the trial started that state a 3-7 year sentence. Could be due to the variety of sources the OP provides.

 

[Coins]

She was groped.

It looks like the officer attempts to take her down after she blatantly elbowed him. I bet that's when she got the bruise.

 

[Delta Assault]

She was groped.

Uhhh... possibly. But again... what's more likely: being groped by a horny cop who's just inserted himself into the middle of a horde of hostile individuals... or having a cop accidentally grab her there because he's being jostled by a crowd while trying to gain a handhold on a small agile girl who's trying to evade him?

 

[kame-sennin]

Uhhh... possibly. But again... what's more likely: being groped by a horny cop who's just inserted himself into the middle of a horde of hostile individuals...

According to a journalist who covered occupy, it happened a lot:

Bovell, who was in plainclothes and who, according to McMillan, did not identify himself as a policeman, allegedly came up from behind and grabbed McMillan’s breast—a perverse form of assault by New York City police that other female activists, too, suffered during Occupy protests.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_crime_of_peaceful_protest_20140427

 

[Loofy]

Uhhh... possibly. But again... what's more likely: being groped by a horny cop who's just inserted himself into the middle of a horde of hostile individuals... or having a cop accidentally grab her there because he's being jostled by a crowd while trying to gain a handhold on a small agile girl who's trying to evade him?

Well if he accidently grabbed her boob, then she accidently defended herself from sexual assault..

 

[Rafterman]

No, I'm saying it's not clear what happened based on that video. You can't even tell if she connects with anything. Also, the defense's argument is not that she didn't hit the officer. It's that she didn't knowingly assault him. That video doesn't make it clear one way or the other. All you can see is a woman flailing, while the officers around her are barely visible. The use of the video was intentionally misleading.

It's absolutely clear what happened on that video, she cocked back and elbowed the guy. And how do you claim you didn't knowingly assault someone when that's exactly what you intended to do in the first place? Nothing misleading about the video at all.

 

[jon bones]

Our whole justice system is so utterly fucked.

 

[lenovox1]

Better article http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...reet-protester-hitting-face-article-1.1758909

I'd call it "the other side of the story," but both leave details out the other doesn't, and you pretty much exclusively get the cop's testimony in the Daily News piece. [And, in general, I wouldn't call the Daily News a better source than the Guardian, but that's completely beside the point.]

Well if he accidently grabbed her boob, then she accidently defended herself from sexual assault..

You can't say that, of course. As other people have noted, there's no way of knowing when and where she received that bruise. On the other hand, I'm sure his injuries were consistent with being elbowed in the eye.

 

[Delta Assault]

Well if he accidently grabbed her boob, then she accidently defended herself from sexual assault..

No, she knew he was there to apprehend her. You don't get to claim sexual assault just because you're running from the police and they happen to accidentally grab your boob while in pursuit. That's a shitty rationale.

 

[Nexas]

The cop's bruise was probably worse

So bad that he couldn't remember where it was apparently.

 

[lenovox1]

So bad that he couldn't remember where it was apparently.

I know you didn't start it, but if we're going to play that game, I don't think either injury was that bad. Both could have come out much, much worse in this situation. And the memory of even the general location of either injury two years after the incident is hardly relevant to the trial.

 

[SlipperySlope]

http://on.aol.com/video/video-shows-woman-elbowing-officer-in-the-face-during-ows-protest-518201788

Video for those that care. That pretty much looks like assault to me.

Interesting. Her claim that she didn't intend to hurt him is obviously bull. Looks like she looked at him before she threw the elbow.

Also, her claim of having her breast grabbed... can't see anything regarding that prior to her taking off. I think the bruise happened as she was running away and the officer pulled on her to stop her. After the elbow.

 

[Rafterman]

I know you didn't start it, but if we're going to play that game, I don't think either injury was that bad. Both could have come out much, much worse in this situation. And the memory of even the general location of either injury two years after the incident is hardly relevant to the trial.

Exactly, it doesn't even matter if he can remember it or how bad his injury was. What kind of moron elbows a policeman in the face? It doesn't surprise me that the people who impeded people going to work, trashed the places they occupied, shit all over the place, all while mostly not having a clue why they were there in the first place would think it was cool to elbow a cop, though.

Seven years would be harsh, of course she won't get that (nice attempt at stirring the pot Op) but she's definitely guilty of what she was charged. Maybe they can have her clean up the next place these people destroy with their "protests".

 

[makeemsayuhjr]

Yeah...there's articles from before the trial started that state a 3-7 year sentence. Could be due to the variety of sources the OP provides.

The length of the punishment is irrelevant to whether she is guilty or not. It is up to a judge at the sentencing phase to determine that.

Our whole justice system is so utterly fucked.

How so? Did she not think she would goto jail for assaulting an officer?

 

[NH Apache]

The length of the punishment is irrelevant to whether she is guilty or not. It is up to a judge at the sentencing phase to determine that.

Yup. I was replying specifically to the part of the article where jurors claimed they had no idea that she could go to jail for up to 7 years.

 

[GaimeGuy]

How so? Did she not think she would goto jail for assaulting an officer?

If the woman's tale is true, that she threw her elbow back instinctively because the person behind her was grabbing her breast, that's not assaulting a police officer. That's defense against sexual assault.

At most, it's a misunderstanding. Not a crime. It's on the cop to identify himself before he goes around grabbing people around the genitals, buttocks, or breasts.

The fact that witnesses corroborated her story should be more than enough to get her off the hook if you ask me.

 

[kame-sennin]

Exactly, it doesn't even matter if he can remember it or how bad his injury was. What kind of moron elbows a policeman in the face? It doesn't surprise me that the people who impeded people going to work, trashed the places they occupied, shit all over the place, all while mostly not having a clue why they were there in the first place would think it was cool to elbow a cop, though.

Ahh, and now I realize why there's so many people defending police brutality in this thread. I forgot how much OWS irked conservatives.

Also, the 7 year bit isn't trying to stir the pot. I wrote as much as would fit. I'm glad you're so confident she won't be doing that much time.

At any rate, I requested a title change because I don't think the debate is relevant to the thread.

 

[jond76]

If the woman's tale is true, that she threw her elbow back instinctively because the person behind her was grabbing her breast, that's not assaulting a police officer. That's defense against sexual assault.

At most, it's a misunderstanding. Not a crime. It's on the cop to identify himself before he goes around grabbing people around the genitals, buttocks, or breasts.

The fact that witnesses corroborated her story should be more than enough to get her off the hook if you ask me.

By "witnesses" you mean the other OWSers that were probably happy to see him get elbowed? Nevermind the video.

 

[GaimeGuy]

By "witnesses" you mean the other OWSers that were probably happy to see him get elbowed? Nevermind the video.

So your assumption is that the defense witnesses were committing perjury. What's the point of even having a trial if you're not willing to entertain the defense?

 

[empty vessel]

By "witnesses" you mean the other OWSers that were probably happy to see him get elbowed? Nevermind the video.

Just out of curiosity, were you happy to see people violently deprived of fundamental liberties?

 

[lenovox1]

Ahh, and now I realize why there's so many people defending police brutality in this thread. I forgot how much OWS irked conservatives.

No matter what you think about people's positions, nobody has out and out defended police brutality yet in this thread. The most I've defended is her specific conviction and the judge's decisions regarding the viability and validity of certain evidence in her specific case and I've gone the "hardest" in taking any position in this thread.

Others have only gone so far to say that she deserved an assault charge based on the actions they saw in the AOL video, but that's still not defending or taking a position on the police's actions.

The fact that witnesses corroborated her story should be more than enough to get her off the hook if you ask me.

Frankly, in this case, I wouldn't weigh testimony from either side very heavily if I was a juror.And you better believe there was testimony from his side as well.

Regardless, the other people there cannot tell the jury what was on her mind when she performed her action. They should only really tell what they saw with their own eyes. That's the only important part of their testimony.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I'm sure she could claim that she didn't know that it was an officer. He did come from behind her after all.

 

[lenovox1]

I'm sure she could claim that she didn't know that it was an officer. He did come from behind her after all.

The heart of the question is did she commit the assault, not whether or not she was aware he was an officer. If he was fulfilling his "duties" /airquote as a "peace officer" /airquote, then that ends the "but she didn't realize he was an officer" line. In this specific case, that isn't really relevant.

 

[empty vessel]

The heart of the question is did she commit the assault, not whether or not she was aware he was an officer. If he was fulfilling his "duties" /airquote as a "justice of the piece" /airquote, then that ends the "but she didn't realize he was an officer" line. In this specific case, that isn't really relevant.

It is relevant. She is engaged in self-defense if she reasonably believed she was being assaulted.

 

[jond76]

Just out of curiosity, were you happy to see people violently deprived of fundamental liberties?

Peaceful protest is one thing, property damage, sexual assaults, and health hazards are another.

The OWS movement was terribly realized from the start, to the point where they were infringing on the liberties of others.

 

[lenovox1]

It is relevant. She is engaged in self-defense if she reasonably believed she was being assaulted.

That's a different argument that doesn't involve whether or not he was police officer.

I'll presume that all the protestors were being rounded up by police? The jury probably didn't find self-defense reasonable in this case because of the circumstances surrounding her.

 

[Chumly]

I don't see how you can say that she deserves it off the video since yes she hit him but we still can't tell if she was groped or not. That was her defense not that she didn't hit him.

 

[SRG01]

It is relevant. She is engaged in self-defense if she reasonably believed she was being assaulted.

And that is the key part here. Were her statements credible given the other evidence presented? Can her claims be easily verified?

 

[rex]

The cop pretty clearly has his hand right on her chest as they're walking along for several steps before she elbows him. It's not like she's offering much resistance to being led away. I don't blame her for bashing this fucking guy in the face.

Too bad the jurors are your typical ignorant, half-wit, subservient clowns judging by the one's statement. And they weren't served well by this judge, who reminds me of the old Federalist judges who would regularly harangue their political opponents from the bench and rule out crucial evidence in order to help the government. Absolutely disgusting

 

[kame-sennin]

Activists claim NYPD used sexual assault as a tactic:

A few weeks ago I was with a few companions from Occupy Wall Street in Union Square when an old friend — I’ll call her Eileen — passed through, her hand in a cast.

“What happened to you?” I asked.

“Oh, this?” she held it up. “I was in Liberty Park on the 17th [the Six Month Anniversary of the Occupation]. When the cops were pushing us out the park, one of them yanked at my breast.”

“Again?” someone said.

We had all been hearing stories like this. In fact, there had been continual reports of police officers groping women during the nightly evictions from Union Square itself over the previous two weeks.

“Yeah so I screamed at the guy, I said, ‘you grabbed my boob! what are you, some kind of fucking pervert?’ So they took me behind the lines and broke my wrists.”

Actually, she quickly clarified, only one wrist was literally broken. She proceeded to launch into a careful, well-nigh clinical blow-by-blow description of what had happened. An experienced activist, she knew to go limp when police seized her, and how to do nothing that could possibly be described as resisting arrest. Police dragged her, partly by the hair, behind their lines and threw her to the ground, periodically shouting “stop resisting!” as she shouted back “I’m not resisting!” At one point though, she said, she did tell them her glasses had fallen to the sidewalk next to her, and announced she was going to reach over to retrieve them. That apparently gave them all the excuse they needed. One seized her right arm and bent her wrist backwards in what she said appeared to be some kind of marshal-arts move, leaving it not broken, but seriously damaged. “I don’t know exactly what they did to my left wrist—at that point I was too busy screaming at the top of my lungs in pain. But they broke it. After that they put me in plastic cuffs, as tightly as they possibly could, and wouldn’t loosen them for at least an hour no matter how loud I screamed or how much the other prisoners begged them to help me.

I’m not aware of any reports of police intentionally grabbing women’s breasts before March 17, but on March 17 there were numerous reported cases, and in later nightly evictions from Union Square, the practice became so systematic that at least one woman told me her breasts were grabbed by five different police officers on a single night (in one case, while another one was blowing kisses.) The tactic appeared so abruptly, is so obviously a violation of any sort of police protocol or standard of legality, that it is hard to imagine it is anything but an intentional policy.

http://prisonbooks.info/2012/05/08/...k-sexual-assault-against-peaceful-protestors/

 

[NH Apache]

I don't see how you can say that she deserves it off the video since yes she hit him but we still can't tell if she was groped or not. That was her defense not that she didn't hit him.

Well we have definitive evidence that she hit him, but nothing to show when her bruise occurred.


Kame, there isn't anything that ties that to this occurrence. I feel like that should be a separate discussion; it's disgusting.

 

[oneils]

According to McMillan, she did not know it was an officer who was grouping her. I would imagine that any woman who was aggressively grabbed on her breast would flail instinctively. I've seen word shit in the NBA.

Also, the cop's story is fucking ludicrous:



So a small, 25 year-old girl is going to ask if she's being filmed, then leap up and deliver a flying elbow to a cop's face while she is surrounded by hundreds of cops giving out viscous beatings?

How do you know that is the cop's story and not from other eye witness accounts. Nothing in the article makes this clear.

 

[Game-Biz]

Wow, yeah she definitely deserves to go to jail. Highly doubt she'll serve 7 years, though.

 

[Zaptruder]

Common sense, 101. Even if the POPO are fucking you up, or treating you like shit, you take it. They will get away with it, even if you're justified. You can't win.

When the rational response to police brutality is to be brutalized... I can't help but feel that society has discarded rationality at large.

 

[kame-sennin]

Kame, there isn't anything that ties that to this occurrence. I feel like that should be a separate discussion; it's disgusting.

All the events discussed happened on the same night. The article says she was one of many women who were sexually assaulted. Literally everything ties that story to this occurrence seeing as how... it was all the same occurrence.

How do you know that is the cop's story and not from other eye witness accounts. Nothing in the article makes this clear.

It's a quote from the prosecutor.

 

[oneils]

All the events discussed happened on the same night. The article says she was one of many women who were sexually assaulted. Literally everything ties that story to this occurrence seeing as how... it was all the same occurrence.



It's a quote from the prosecutor.

Right, which could be from eyewitness testimony rather than the cops testimony.

 

[Zaptruder]

Activists claim NYPD used sexual assault as a tactic:





http://prisonbooks.info/2012/05/08/...k-sexual-assault-against-peaceful-protestors/

If there's any credence to these claims, then this is basically torture - just brushed under rug and made 'ok' because of the 'chaotic' circumstances.

Because if we took it out of the context, a law enforcement official sexually molesting and breaking the bones of a non-resisting individual in custody would be seen as absolutely abhorrent as it should be.

And I'm not entirely unsure that this isn't a general strategy that law enforcement employs for situations like this.

 

[NH Apache]

All the events discussed happened on the same night. The article says she was one of many women who were sexually assaulted. Literally everything ties that story to this occurrence seeing as how... it was all the same occurrence.



It's a quote from the prosecutor.

No. It mentions her case in passing and that she had a bruise from that night. It mentions nothing new about when or where she received it.

The entirety of the reference to her case, quietly ignoring that she is in trial for the above:

One exception is Cecily McMillan, who was not only groped but suffered a broken rib and seizures during her arrest on March 17, and held incommunicado, denied constant requests to see her lawyer, for over 24 hours thereafter. Shortly after release from the hospital she appeared on Democracy Now! And showed part of a handprint, replete with scratch-marks, that police had left directly over her right breast. (She is currently pursuing civil charges against the police department):

Without even going into the bias on the story, I found the final paragraph nicely ironic when the only direct evidence we have is her throwing an elbow:

As Gandhi revealed, non-violent protest is effective above all because it reveals how power really operates: it lays bare the violence it is willing to unleash on even the most peaceful citizens when they dare to challenge its moral legitimacy.

 

[kirblar]

Well if he accidently grabbed her boob, then she accidently defended herself from sexual assault..

Grabbing someone's chest in an attempt to detain them is not sexual assault.

 

[rex]

Grabbing someone's chest in an attempt to detain them is not sexual assault.

I don't see her needing any restraining in the video. She seems completely compliant.

But the cop has his hands on her chest anyway. In other words, he's groping her.

 

[HarryKS]

What kind of tin can school is the New School? Such a strange name for a university.

 

[NH Apache]

So she got 75 days according to NPR radio.