Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
OJ played football, which in America is apparently a bulletproof vest, and as I said before, Zimmerman has a lot of supporters.
She's been in one movie in an unimportant role.
Actress Daniele Watts reported for lewd acts, goes nuts at police investigating
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OJ played football, which in America is apparently a bulletproof vest, and as I said before, Zimmerman has a lot of supporters.
She's been in one movie in an unimportant role.
Son of Cervantes
Member
I think that was Reese Witherspoon when she got arrested for drunk driving, lol.
Reese Witherspoon?
DoktorEvil
Banned
About that:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129917231&postcount=6
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129917429&postcount=11
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129917609&postcount=17
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129918236&postcount=26
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129918932&postcount=49
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129920879&postcount=91
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129920975&postcount=95
This was the only informative post in the first 2 pages:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129919121&postcount=51
Which was nice that when I posted I got an informative answer about ID policy in the US.
Too bad - I believed her, but it just goes to show that:
A - people lie about shit and try to turn themselves into victims
B - police need to have recording devices on them all the time
She showed all the maturity I had when I was 12 and I was trying to get out of trouble by being an indignant, whiney asshole. She's done damage to her own cause and any cause she was trying to hide behind.
During the incident that reaction could perhaps be understood, but it's her reaction afterwards, and that of her boyfriend, who during the incident barely said a word, that has me shaking my head.
To be fair, the amount of dog piling onto people who have doubts is getting out of control. Yes, cops sometimes lie, but so do citizens.
A - people lie about shit and try to turn themselves into victims
B - police need to have recording devices on them all the time
She showed all the maturity I had when I was 12 and I was trying to get out of trouble by being an indignant, whiney asshole. She's done damage to her own cause and any cause she was trying to hide behind.
During the incident that reaction could perhaps be understood, but it's her reaction afterwards, and that of her boyfriend, who during the incident barely said a word, that has me shaking my head.
To be fair, the amount of dog piling onto people who have doubts is getting out of control. Yes, cops sometimes lie, but so do citizens.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I edited my original post to say no one was saying all cops are racist A-holes -- before I received 3+ responses. None of those post tell me that all cops are racist A-holes -- which is what you accused them of doing. Most of them are actually VERY logical considering the story we were presented. Those posters are recognizing a trend which is proven by data.
edit: how is pointing out possible racism the same as saying "All cops are racist A-holes"? Especially, as I mentioned before, it is known with verifiable data that law enforcement tends to target black individuals?
blitzcloud
Banned
prejudice:
a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
b. A preconceived preference or idea.
prejudice, yes.
Hey now, we called no dictionaries!
Apparently it's just one or the other.
something something middle groung on neogaf
Apparently it's just one or the other.
something something middle groung on neogaf
On NeoGAF it sometimes is, yes.
While I can see this thread repeatedly getting cited in every upcoming police thread, I'm sure it will be dismissed by others just as quickly.
I don't even mind people 'jumping to conclusions' when it comes to blaming the police because of the amount of negative situations lately, but at the very least I hope this thread calms down the trend of calling people who want to 'wait for more facts' pseudo-racists or whatever.
Welcome to the internet!
Seriously, Foxy Fox 39, seriously?
Stop stroking your ego with semantics, you're doing nothing good for the general issue of black discrimination. Instead of discussing how Mrs Watts was properly wrong in her actions and that this is a bad thing to do, you try to desperately lead the discussion away from the topic and to general issue as if it were so shallow that it'll break down with Mrs Watts wrongdoings. It's not. And people, including those who called for calm, know that and will properly call policemen and who ever out for shit when it happens again.
Stop stroking your ego with semantics, you're doing nothing good for the general issue of black discrimination. Instead of discussing how Mrs Watts was properly wrong in her actions and that this is a bad thing to do, you try to desperately lead the discussion away from the topic and to general issue as if it were so shallow that it'll break down with Mrs Watts wrongdoings. It's not. And people, including those who called for calm, know that and will properly call policemen and who ever out for shit when it happens again.
DoktorEvil
Banned
The story didn't present anything! This is shoddy journalism:
We're presented we only her side of the story. How is this decent journalism?
Now we have the update:
So even Variety doesn't have the balls to admit they're wrong and TMZ ends up breaking and covering this non-story much better than a premier Hollywood publication.
Don't defend those shit posts. They're shit posts. They're reactionary posts. Something like this article doesn't pass a HS writing class! I also like how Variety absolves themselves of any blame by having the author as "Variety Staff".
I'm delving way off topic with this back and forth, but I'd like more Gaffers to actually read and interpret what's in these threads instead of reacting.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Seriously, chariot.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I'm not trying to be a martyr. I just think it's completely ridiculous at how judgmental people here are being at people who want to hear the whole story before making a judgement about something.
It's not my fault that people are doing exactly what I said they'd do when you asked why I wasn't in this thread earlier then I was. Instead of debating with me, people are just shitposting at me.
He didn't provide an opposing argument to me, he didn't pose a rebuttal and try to discuss the situation. He was just aiming to insult me. I haven't done that once in this thread. And then you sit there and wonder why people don't come in to talk in threads like this. It's because people just start needlessly shitposting and no one is going to do anything about it.
Son of Cervantes
Member
I'm sorry, but now it's hard to take you seriously because you're pretending not to recognize hyperbole, which is a fundamental tool of rhetoric.
Please be reasonable here.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Honestly they should use this audio recording as an example for rookie cops on how to do proper police work with a person that is refusing to cooperate.
That cop did a great job handling the whole thing. I don't want to live in a community where someone who had been called on by the cops, can simply throw a tantrum, throw everything they can at the cop, (verbally and otherwise) just to avoid showing their ID and the cop actually budging to their bullshit and leaving the scene.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I recognize hyperbole. But is it ever useful in a discussion like this? Especially when taking about the viewpoints that others hold?
What was the point of conflating "America has a systemic problem with race" with "All cops are racist? They're not the same sentence and it only serves to villainize people who actually are speaking truths.
Again, how does that help anything?
Son of Cervantes
Member
How does what you're doing help anything? You're essentially crusading for people to be banned ("you trying to be a martyr?") because you disagree with them.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Lol. No I'm not. What are you even talking about? Why don't you just answer the question instead of bringing something else up which you so badly misunderstood.
edit: Some clarity, me calling Zen a martyr is not me crusading for him to get banned. Lol. It's me calling him out every time he acts like Neogaf is the big bad wolf persecuting him and others for trying to have "fair and balanced" discussions. Every post where I mention this you will note he talks about how much is and other people are suffering. It's called a persecution complex -- which is why I said that. Nothing to do with me trying to get him banned as 1) I don't back seat mod and 2) He hasn't said anything ban-worthy.
DoktorEvil
Banned
It doesn't but surely you can see from the writing that her story was first hand account hyperbole vs people who're actually abused by police and don't know their civil liberties.
This isn't journalism. This is gossip.
pants
Member
Son of Cervantes
Member
Why don't you answer the question? You're really being prickly here. Sorry for misunderstanding your posts, but a lot of what you're writing here seems to be purposefully malicious. You parse people's posts, pretend not to understand when they're being hyperbolic, interpret the letter but not the spirit of what people are saying in some weird attempt to prove that you're right and they're all wrong, etc., etc., etc.
The first posts were indeed saying that there's a lot of racist cops out there, and that's because we have a systemic problem with race in this country. So, the two issues are intertwined.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Hey how would you know you don't like apple pie until you try one? and sometimes some store made apple pies taste much better than other's and let's not ignore delicious home made apple pies.
I press the "two sides" argument a lot. It's not because I think all [whoever] are a bunch of liars, it's because I've been burned by bias-baiting stories like this one enough times that I finally learned a lesson from it. As the internet demonstrates clearly every god damn day, learning to recognize and suppress confirmation bias is something we all need to be a lot better at.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
This is very easy to say when your posts are going to be discussed instead of insulted.
I don't think I've said anything so far that warrants people trying to insult me instead of discussing my points. I don't think you do either, considering you've been civil and have had a discussion with me for most of the day without having to make snarky shitposts.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I admit that the journalism was weak but typing a perfectly reasonable response (although misguided in this specific situation) to a story we've seen countless times is not something to be mocked.
The story updated and we got more information so we've changed our opinion. Science works the same way. You have information and you form a conclusion. Once you get more information that conclusion may change or it may stay the same.
It's a bit silly to me that people in here are trying to villainize posters who are simply using reasonable logic to come to a conclusion with limited information. I keep saying this but it's naive to think the first 14 pages should have been "Let's wait and see for more info".
DoktorEvil
Banned
In general, I'd like future threads to actually vet the source, because the discussion and bannings and unbannings Wouldn't have happened if people would've recognized how poorly written this article is.
While I'd like to believe first person accounts aren't wrong, there's always hyperbole, bias, and emotions running high when the source of an incident is only from one POV.
I like the lapel camera idea, but civvies can't know they're being recorded, otherwise people will act one way and behave another around a camera cop because they know they're being recorded.
I'm sorry to say those first few posts aren't "reasonable logic". They're reactionary, as most threads are quickly becoming behind these shoddy write ups posted too often in the first post.
If were going to have spirited debate, I'd like to expect the other posters to have seen those things as well and not be called racists for questioning the whole write up or questioning why refusing To give ID is even a civil liberty.
You're still ignoring the nazi comparisons? Because they were there and it was that some people protested the most.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The problem isn't that people believed the actress. The problem is how they respond to people who didn't choose to believe her right away.
SwiftDeath
Member
I believed the actress. I was wrong. I'm sorry
stufte
Member
Not sure why you or anyone has to apologize. It's perfectly reasonable to take a side (and a reasonable side to take considering the last few months of police interactions).
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
That's fine. I don't necessarily disagree but we're talking about this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=130162637#post130162637
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=130166588&postcount=979
Those posts are what got this weird little tangent going.
edit: I believe Doktor took offense to me quoting him as gloating. I viewed it as gloating because he said:
which is definitely a gloat especially when no one ever said that.
Son of Cervantes
Member
I believed her too. Nothing wrong with feeling angry when you think an injustice has happened.
Why is it a reasonable side to take?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Because it's all the information anyone had.
I think it's understandable to be hostile toward "need to wait for more facts" comments, because they're often used without any specific relevant facts in mind to be waiting for.
In those cases, they're rightfully seen as someone who has picked a side without valid reasons and simply wants to wait for evidence that backs up that side.
That being said, it's obviously not correct to always slam that comment. As sometimes there are relevant facts missing that are important in making a judgement, like in this case where the other side of the story was completely missing.
In those cases, they're rightfully seen as someone who has picked a side without valid reasons and simply wants to wait for evidence that backs up that side.
That being said, it's obviously not correct to always slam that comment. As sometimes there are relevant facts missing that are important in making a judgement, like in this case where the other side of the story was completely missing.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Who or what was the source of that information?
DoktorEvil
Banned
The victim and her husband.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
This sums up my opinion of this entire situation and the Neogaf's OT in general.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
I see, thanks.
Edit: I think quoting the word "victim" would be more accurate in your sentence, since there wasn't a real victim at the end of this incident.
stufte
Member
With the high tension regarding police/minority interactions lately, taking the side of the accuser in this situation isn't unreasonable. What IS unreasonable is anyone who lambastes other posters because they DON'T immediately take that position.
Take a side, but when all the information isn't there, don't be an asshole to those who choose a wait and see approach.
You still think she's a victim?? A victim of her own hubris maybe.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
To be fair, I was quoting someone who was asking if people were going to come back and admit they were wrong. I'm not really happy in any way about how these threads go.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Well said.
Three specific instances I can recall it happening and in each I had a different thought.
First one was, this will be great.
It wasn't
Second was like, maybe this one will be better
Nope
Third was like fuck why now?
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