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[Nokterian]

Oh, happy day! I love being analyzed by a camera in my own home and flooded with personalized ads. It helps keep me in touch, makes me feel special and tells me who I am! As they are tailored just for me!

expect a lot of porn ad's!

Spoiler

so your family or friends are there you show them your new xbone and bam there it is, ad's...porn ad's everywhere!

 

[Bgamer90]

Well, it's about a multitude of factors. I can certainly understand where your reading of it came from, but consider this, in case you missed my post:



Here's the link to Microsoft Advertisement, in particular the targeted advertisement section:

http://advertising.microsoft.com/en-us/display-ad-targeting

Here's the Xbox-specific section, which right now only covers the 360, but already mentions Kinect:

http://advertising.microsoft.com/en-us/xbox



Ads bring in the big bucks, targeting ads bring in the HUGE bucks, and Microsoft absolutely knows this and is going after it.

Yeah, and I definitely understand where you are coming from too.

I'm just trying to see how people are taking all of it to mean "kinect watching me 24/7" especially since the Xbox One doesn't need it to function.

 

[jem0208]

Really? Cool. Can you point us all to a link where they stated that? Thanks.

Link me to something stating they will watch video of us.

Basically everything MS has said up until this point has refuted that, however if I was to link that you'd merely say you don't believe them.

Anyway, there's no logical reason for them to actually watch a recorded video/audio clip of you. No only would it be pointless and very time consuming, the logistics behind it would be ridiculous. They'd need massive storage facilities to keep all of the data, they would also need to somehow find a way of uploading all of this data from our Xbox's to their servers. Suffice to say, I think it's pretty ridiculous to believe they are going to study our reactions to adverts via video.

 

[ironcreed]

expect a lot of porn ad's!

Spoiler

so your family or friends are there you show them your new xbone and bam there it is, ad's...porn ad's everywhere!

Nah, I never watch porn... on my TV.

 

[Nokterian]

Recording my reactions? In my own home? What business is it of theirs? What right do they have to that information?

Ridiculous.

Quoted since i can stress enough this is just disgusting in every form i can think off.

 

[Zornack]

Link me to something stating they will watch video of us.

Basically everything MS has said up until this point has refuted that, however if I was to link that you'd merely say you don't believe them.

Anyway, there's no logical reason for them to actually watch a recorded video/audio clip of you. No only would it be pointless and very time consuming, the logistics behind it would be ridiculous. They'd need massive storage facilities to keep all of the data, they would also need to somehow find a way of uploading all of this data from our Xbox's to their servers. Suffice to say, I think it's pretty ridiculous to believe they are going to study our reactions to adverts via video.

The fear isn't that every piece of video will end up at Microsoft HQ. The fear is that the Kinect has the capability to send recorded video to Microsoft or the NSA or a data collection agency without your connect.

I don't think anyone believes that everything in front of the Kinect will be stored in a Microsoft vault somewhere but until I see a breakdown of what exactly is being transmitted I am going to be skeptical.

 

[SmokedMeat]

This is why Kinect is in every box despite no games making any big use of it. It's a gateway for advertisers to watch you, and engage with their customers in a way they never could.

And it's all to Microsoft's benefit, with you footing the bill for the invasive device.

No game could ever exist that would make me want another one of their systems. I'm done.

 

[hawk2025]

Link me to something stating they will watch video of us.

Basically everything MS has said up until this point has refuted that, however if I was to link that you'd merely say you don't believe them.

Anyway, there's no logical reason for them to actually watch a recorded video/audio clip of you. No only would it be pointless and very time consuming, the logistics behind it would be ridiculous. They'd need massive storage facilities to keep all of the data, they would also need to somehow find a way of uploading all of this data from our Xbox's to their servers. Suffice to say, I think it's pretty ridiculous to believe they are going to study our reactions to adverts via video.

At least from my part, it's not about being watched at all -- I don't expect MS to quite literally have a file with the actual video feed of Kinect. But there's still plenty of meta data I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being available. Reverse-engineering the ads that were fed to my console could potentially identify it. I don't want to be offered a $9.99 DLC that will make a game easier if Kinect sees I'm frustrated. I don't want to wonder whether or not what's being show in my little entertainment box that I just want to enjoy at the end of the day is understanding that I'm tired, or haven't turned on the system in 7 days, and thus maybe am more likely to break open my wallet to specific things and feed me ads on those.

I... just want to play games.

 

[ironcreed]

At least from my part, it's not about being watched at all -- I don't expect MS to quite literally have a file with the actual video feed of Kinect. But there's still plenty of meta data I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being available. Reverse-engineering the ads that were fed to my console could potentially identify it. I don't want to be offered a $9.99 DLC that will make a game easier if Kinect sees I'm frustrated. I don't want to wonder whether or not what's being show in my little entertainment box that I just want to enjoy at the end of the day is understanding that I'm tired, or haven't turned on the system in 7 days, and thus maybe am more likely to break open my wallet to specific things and feed me ads on those.

I... just want to play games.

In a nutshell.

 

[Vodh]

So, when Amazon released one of the Kindles, there were two options - one with ads, and the other one with nice screensavers instead. Literally the only difference between them were the ads and the price - you're willing to grab the one with the ads? Sure, hey, we'll give you a discount.

That's an approach I can get behind, especially since the difference wasn't too big and the one without ads was still a really cheap and amazing reader.

Spoiler

I still would have grabbed the one without the ads.

And Microsoft want to sell people a console that's weaker, more expensive than their competitor, and their justification for the price is a fucking ad reactions scanner?

Fucking hell.

The thing I understand the least in this whole thing is WHY ON EARTH aren't they willing to take a hit and sell the console cheaper than PS4? They have weaker components, and if the ad thing succeeds it's going to earn its cost back multiple times over the lifespan of the console. It's like they actually want to fail.

 

[dose]

Link me to something stating they will watch video of us.

I never said they would be doing that, yet you were stating that all that'll be recorded is 'small data points like whether you watched the entire ad or not' as fact, when you have nothing to back it up.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

At least from my part, it's not about being watched at all -- I don't expect MS to quite literally have a file with the actual video feed of Kinect. But there's still plenty of meta data I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being available. Reverse-engineering the ads that were fed to my console could potentially identify it. I don't want to be offered a $9.99 DLC that will make a game easier if Kinect sees I'm frustrated. I don't want to wonder whether or not what's being show in my little entertainment box that I just want to enjoy at the end of the day is understanding that I'm tired, or haven't turned on the system in 7 days, and thus maybe am more likely to break open my wallet to specific things and feed me ads on those.

I... just want to play games.

Apparently the $60/game we spend isn't enough for some

 

[ironcreed]

The thing I understand the least in this whole thing is WHY ON EARTH aren't they willing to take a hit and sell the console cheaper than PS4? They have weaker components, and if the ad thing succeeds it's going to earn its cost back multiple times over the lifespan of the console. It's like they actually want to fail.

Sony had to learn a thing or two about it for the first few years of this current gen.

 

[Lazlo Woodbine]

See Arthur Gies go all in defense mode after that? Is he gunning for Hryb's job or something?

 

[jem0208]

The fear isn't that every piece of video will end up at Microsoft HQ. The fear is that the Kinect has the capability to send recorded video to Microsoft or the NSA or a data collection agency without your connect.

I don't think anyone believes that everything in front of the Kinect will be stored in a Microsoft vault somewhere but until I see a breakdown of what exactly is being transmitted I am going to be skeptical.

The problem I have with this is that almost every modern device with a camera has this capability. I don't think the NSA is going to be all that interested in what's going on infront of your TV when they can just as easily know exactly where you are going and what you are saying by tracking your smartphone.

At least from my part, it's not about being watched at all -- I don't expect MS to quite literally have a file with the actual video feed of Kinect. But there's still plenty of meta data I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being available. Reverse-engineering the ads that were fed to my console could potentially identify it. I don't want to be offered a $9.99 DLC that will make a game easier if Kinect sees I'm frustrated. I don't want to wonder whether or not what's being show in my little entertainment box that I just want to enjoy at the end of the day is understanding that I'm tired, or haven't turned on the system in 7 days, and thus maybe am more likely to break open my wallet to specific things and feed me ads on those.

I... just want to play games.

I agree, I'd rather have no ads at all. However if we are to have them, I'd prefer to have an ad for the latest Bioshock DLC than one for the latest Justin Beiber albumn.

 

[Kleegamefan]

See Arthur Gies go all in defense mode after that? Is he gunning for Hryb's job or something?

What did agies say?

 

[diggler41]

See Arthur Gies go all in defense mode after that? Is he gunning for Hryb's job or something?

I don't know why he does this everytime(Gies). I like RebelFM but man... Whenever there is a bad word spoken about Microsoft within his peers he is the 1st and well only one there to defend it.

 

[Racer1977]

Let's be honest here, Kinect has delivered ZERO compelling evidence it can enhance gaming, MS has essentially bailed on dedicating any more resources towards AAA, Kinect only, games.

Today's spiel, is snap, menu navigation etc., pretty useless features that are second best to controller navigation.

Compare and contrast MS's woolly explanations as to why Kinect is an essential piece of kit for gamers/entertainment enthusiasts (PR BS in short), with their detailed, highly targeted focus on Kinect as a means to drive ad revenue.

Gamers are basically paying a $100 premium to have their life given over to advertisers.

 

[TKM]

Disgusting if implemented. I wouldn't participate for a free Xbox, let alone pay for the privilege. Or maybe I'll been bombarded with lightbulbs ads because Kinect2 will be locked in a dark closet.

I don't think this will fly in the Eurozone where privacy is better guarded that corporatist America.

 

[jem0208]

I never said they would be doing that, yet you were stating that all that'll be recorded is 'small data points like whether you watched the entire ad or not' as fact, when you have nothing to back it up.

What else are they going to record?

It's either data points or video/audio.

 

[funkystudent]

So are they going to ad "Next Gen marketing!" to that infographic?


Like I have nothing against the idea of ads on consoles .... unless its at the expense of the user and kinect seems like a $100 expense which is packed in for advertisers more then it helps games.

If MS and Sony want to sell ads for Mcdonalds on the system menu then fine. Just dont charge me extra for it thanks!

 

[Zaph]

Of course Gies is going HAM.

The smartphone/webcam argument is so threadbare it's now comical.

 

[ironcreed]

Disgusting if implemented. I wouldn't participate for a free Xbox, let alone pay for the privilege. Or maybe I'll been bombarded with lightbulbs ads because Kinect2 will be locked in a dark closet.

I don't think this will fly in the Eurozone where privacy is better guarded that corporatist America.

Germany has already labeled it as a 'surveillance device.'

 

[kafiend]

How is it dealt with for friends etc. that come to your house? Do they get automatically opted in if you authorize the system to watch you?

 

[Kaako]

There are no ads that are interesting to me, if MS need feedback on ads all they need is a one-off pop-up when setting up the system.

"Do you like and want to view ads on your Xbox?"

The answer is no, period, now fuck off. forever.

Expecting any other reaction from me is stupid.

I don't want "more interesting" ads, there are none, I just want none of that shit.

Profiling me? - Fucking pay me for that shit or just fuck off.

Or better yet, a pop-up, let me opt-out right from the bat.

Won't do that? - Oh I know why, my opinion means fuck all, and for that reason among many others, MS can take the Xbox One and shove it up Ballmers ass.

Amen to that. To think you're only paying $100 extra over the competition for this revolutionary tool in custom advertisement. Smfh...

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Disgusting if implemented. I wouldn't participate for a free Xbox, let alone pay for the privilege. Or maybe I'll been bombarded with lightbulbs ads because Kinect2 will be locked in a dark closet.

I don't think this will fly in the Eurozone where privacy is better guarded that corporatist America.

This and the broadband/24hr check in issue should be pretty big in Europe.

 

[Slashlen]

Nah, I never watch porn... on my TV.

You don't need to. Kinect is watching you.

 

[Black-Box]

Didn't MS say this will not be happening. Like a day before?

 

[Goodacre0081]

.

 

[Chobel]

Didn't MS say this will not be happening. Like a day before?

MS said it's not implemented at the moment.

 

[twobear]

I don't have as big a problem with the 'it does stuff other than video games' angle of the Xbone as I think a lot of people on GAF do, but I have problems with how incredibly cynical all those extra features seem on MS's behalf. Hamstring the features and apps unless you have XBLG, mandatory Kinect that's used to collect data for advertisers, dashboard ads, mandatory internet connection to prevent you trading in games easily while ensuring that you're in a position to be marketed to through your internet connection, etc. Everything is so obviously a ploy for revenue.

 

[TOYCOFFIN]

This is for sure happening. There is no, "if this is implemented". They probably already have it 100% working.

 

[2345425]

I don't have as big a problem with the 'it does stuff other than video games' angle of the Xbone as I think a lot of people on GAF do, but I have problems with how incredibly cynical all those extra features seem on MS's behalf. Hamstring the features and apps unless you have XBLG, mandatory Kinect that's used to collect data for advertisers, dashboard ads, mandatory internet connection to prevent you trading in games easily while ensuring that you're in a position to be marketed to through your internet connection, etc. Everything is so obviously a ploy for revenue.

It's not that that they want to increase revenue, it's that they're trying to do it without offering any benefit to the end-user in exchange. I think part of what we're seeing is Microsoft not knowing what to do when they can't act from a position of near absolute power (Office, Windows) and thus aren't able to force consumers to do whatever they want them to because they have nowhere else to go. Their approach to dealing with markets where they do not have an established monopoly is slow and clumsy.

 

[Horp]

I'm seriously annoyed with all the "well it's only if you opt-in"-comments I've seen over the internet in discussions on this new piece of news. That's not the point. This isn't what a gaming console (or a media box for that matter) should be used for. It's disgusting and disturbing that they can even think of something like this. And add to this the fact that they wanted Kinect and online to be mandatory from the start. So maybe they didn't intend this to be opt-in, but for everyone? They must have completely lost the plot, lost the touch with their customers.

Panello, if you happen to be reading this:
Get a grip MS.
You did just about everything wrong with the Xbox One.
The hardware is weak, far weaker than your competitors box. I know how you must have felt when you saw the Wii succeed with its inferior hardware, but common who really liked the fact that the Wii didn't give us Mario Galaxy in HD?
You made the Kinect mandatory, even though you must have known a huge part of your true fanbase wouldn't want that.
The price is too high.
You came up with a disgusting new way of advertising shit, which clearly shows what your true intent with the Kinect is.
You have hid behind a new buzzword every month, until proven wrong either by people that knows what they are talking about, or by things actually not working in actual demos. Remember when you told us the "power of the cloud" was infinite? Then it was 4 times the power of the Xbox, PER Xbox. What was it, "4 xboxes running in the cloud for each xbox".
I really hope the Xbox One fails miserably, just so you not only go back to the drawing board for the hardware and the games, but your entire way of approaching this market and its customers.

 

[Jac_Solar]

I don't care because I'm pretty damn certain no one is actively watching me with these devices. If it came to light that Kinect was recording video of us and people in marketing at MS were reviewing these videos, then yes, I would be pretty outraged.

What I don't care about is data points being sent to a computer program which then sends back ads which are more interesting to me.

You seriously don't care about the consequences of major corporations profiling individuals under the guise of gaming, entertainment? That they are allowed to do this? You think they are doing this for you? You really think major corporations being allowed into the individuals homes, having instant feedback about reactions, thoughts, patterns from millions of people is a good thing? That it will be limited only to "interesting ads"?

Marketing and ad profiling is already absurd - a 20 minute show has 2-4 commercial slots; minute long segments where a couple of commercials repeat over and over. The Xbox One is set to create entirely new precedents, and lower the standard for advertising, privacy and individuality even further.

Not to mention the fact that they are trying to push more and more advertising into gaming - unlike Xbox 360, they are announcing that this will be ad heavy from the start.

F2P games seem to be a big thing on the next generation of consoles, and they will probably soon start featuring ad clips when you enter a town, or finish a match, or start a match, or enter a lobby. It's already a heavy part of flash games. Then they'll offer a subscription for fewer ads, no ads, and so forth. Then eventually they will probably introduce it to regular multiplayer games, and then single player games.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I don't have as big a problem with the 'it does stuff other than video games' angle of the Xbone as I think a lot of people on GAF do, but I have problems with how incredibly cynical all those extra features seem on MS's behalf. Hamstring the features and apps unless you have XBLG, mandatory Kinect that's used to collect data for advertisers, dashboard ads, mandatory internet connection to prevent you trading in games easily while ensuring that you're in a position to be marketed to through your internet connection, etc. Everything is so obviously a ploy for revenue.

A little subtlety goes a long way

 

[IvorB]

You can disable what's new? I think you can set your PS3 not to start on it, but I didn't know that it could be be disabled.

I disagree, there's no realistic way to push ads on XMB without having a major redesign, the image I posted is a testament to how hard it is to implement ads that everyone sees on XMB.

Actually, the blades did somewhat lend itself to advertising. The problem was the limited amount of space, they only had two windows in which to advertise/promote content.

I think it's just being a realist. Sony themselves have talked about content discoverability and that's hard to do without advertising. How can you ensure everyone who uses your console knows that there's a new game available in the store? Sending messages might work, but there's no guarantee everyone will read it, advertising removes those issues.

The real question is will they take it as far as MS in having non gaming related ads? Will they have an ad for Lynx/Axe, McD, Mountain Dew, etc? My feeling they won't, but I think game and store related ads will be a big feature in a couple of years and that's a good thing as it makes it easier for me, as a gamer, to know that's a new game on the store without having to do anything more than turning my console. If that ad links directly to the game so I can purchase it or download the demo as is the case on 360, even better.

Yeah could be that. I haven't seen that "what's new" section in ages. It's pretty tucked away. What I meant with the blades thing is: MS redesigned their whole UI to accommodate ads but Sony hasn't done anything similar when they could do it just as easily.

There's a difference between content deliverability and just straight-up ads. When you see a Mazda ad on your games console then you know that's a step too far.

 

[BigDug13]

It's really crazy the difference, the humility, the culture, the message, the defense by hardcore fans, the "Sony will do it too" mantra. The vast difference in the approach to this upcoming generation by both companies. The social media direct interaction by guys like Shu to general customers, the humility in calling their competition really smart.

All the while that competition has forced a camera and microphone system into their console without a clear gaming purpose at launch and it comes out that its primary purpose is advertising directly from the mouths of MS execs, and there's still this HUGE defense by people so invested in making the Xbox brand the most successful brand that they're willing to forgive absolutely every single move. It's just incredible to me.

 

[alr1ght]

What did agies say?

Just imagine the many MS astroturfers that have been banned the last few months, but not being paid.

redacted url. no need for discussing him derailing yet another thread.

 

[mhayze]

Recording my reactions? In my own home? What business is it of theirs? What right do they have to that information?
Ridiculous.
Not even close.

OK, so they have no 'right' to the information. Assume that providing feedback was opt-in (but delivering ads is not). Now you get an ad for a tampon. They're asking you, nicely, if you dont like/want our ad, let us know. Why would you NOT want to let them know what you don't like it? Without the feedback, you're just being bombarded with random junk. Ads are worth more money if they're targeted, so by not allowing feedback, you're just increasing the number of ads that it takes to deliver an appropriate impression.

 

[Clear]

The best part is of course that the datamining functionality isn't restricted to just xbox applications, the way the system is designed as this gatekeeper device that sits atop all incoming video signals makes it a potential feedback resource for any broadcaster...

Its genius, in a dubious sort of way. That sort of real-time market research data is worth a fortune.

I wrote a post about this in more detail a few months back, it really is just the final fruition of Bill Gates long-standing ambition for MS to "own" the living rooms of America. Funny part being that back then we had a far more unsubtle idea of what that "ownership" actually entails - as it turns out its not just having a MS branded box by every TV its a device that can passively monetize all content that passes through it.

 

[weekend_warrior]

10 years from now.

You get up to use the washroom when an ad comes on. The ad pauses and waits till you get back before finishing.

 

[2345425]

It's really crazy the difference, the humility, the culture, the message, the defense by hardcore fans, the "Sony will do it too" mantra. The vast difference in the approach to this upcoming generation by both companies. The social media direct interaction by guys like Shu to general customers, the humility in calling their competition really smart.

All the while that competition has forced a camera and microphone system into their console without a clear gaming purpose at launch and it comes out that its primary purpose is advertising directly from the mouths of MS execs, and there's still this HUGE defense by people so invested in making the Xbox brand the most successful brand that they're willing to forgive absolutely every single move. It's just incredible to me.

Console gamers finally get to experience the joys of Microsoft's corporate culture and strategy.

 

[famousmortimer]

I don't like Microsoft very much, but why doesn't a company like Apple get as much flack? I mean, Touch ID is introduced and they also say the data never leaves your iPhone. Where's the questioning about that?

I have heard many, many, many people complain about the touch ID.


I used to love my iphones but I reached a point where I couldn't take it anymore. Apple can go F itself in the A as well.


Google isn't much better... but atleast with an open platform there are a number of apps that atleast give me the illusion that I'm getting some level of privacy.

 

[Barzul]

Germany has already labeled it as a 'surveillance device.'

What did they label the original Kinect as, if you have any idea on that?

 

[twobear]

I have heard many, many, many people complain about the touch ID.


I used to love my iphones but I reached a point where I couldn't take it anymore. Apple can go F itself in the A as well.


Google isn't much better... but atleast with an open platform there are a number of apps that atleast give me the illusion that I'm getting some level of privacy.

Google and privacy are not really terms I associate with each other.

 

[Iacobellis]

I have heard many, many, many people complain about the touch ID.


I used to love my iphones but I reached a point where I couldn't take it anymore. Apple can go F itself in the A as well.


Google isn't much better... but atleast with an open platform there are a number of apps that atleast give me the illusion that I'm getting some level of privacy.

Yeah, I remember you were briefly talking about your switch to Android on an episode of your podcast. I have a 5 right now and am on the fence of sticking with iOS or jumping to Android when the Nexus 5 is released. 5-6 years of using the same software is really starting to get stale. May I ask why you don't like Apple as a company?

 

[FINALBOSS]

I see it didn't take long for people to start the usual comparisons of disliking to Kinect to phones and laptop webcams.

 

[hawk2025]

OK, so they have no 'right' to the information. Assume that providing feedback was opt-in (but delivering ads is not). Now you get an ad for a tampon. They're asking you, nicely, if you dont like/want our ad, let us know. Why would you NOT want to let them know what you don't like it? Without the feedback, you're just being bombarded with random junk. Ads are worth more money if they're targeted, so by not allowing feedback, you're just increasing the number of ads that it takes to deliver an appropriate impression.

Can't say I understand this point at all. If ad revenue goes up on the Xbox, we'll see more and more non-gaming related advertisement. We'll start seeing Geico. Health Insurance. ANY kind of insurance (the people that benefit a lot from targeting).

The best we can hope for is that those people take their ad money elsewhere.

Microsoft already has access to every single game we've played, for how long, and our achievements. They don't need anything else to target gaming content properly.

Simply giving up and accepting a whole new level of ads since it will happen "anyways" is not the right answer, IMO.

 

[twobear]

I see it didn't take long for people to start the usual comparisons of disliking to Kinect to phones and laptop webcams.

It's not an illegitimate comparison, though. There are obviously points of difference but there are also many of similarity.