But that money has been on the table for years now and Sony has made no moves to try and tap it as far as I know. Surely they would have done something about it by now but system update after system update has brought no ads to the UI. Unless you count that dreadful Singstar "app".
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AdvertisingAge: Xbox One's Data Treasure Trove Could Reshape Marketing
- Thread starter Freki
- Start date
But that money has been on the table for years now and Sony has made no moves to try and tap it as far as I know. Surely they would have done something about it by now but system update after system update has brought no ads to the UI. Unless you count that dreadful Singstar "app".
People should be aware of MS' L-O-N-G use of astroturfing. Bill Gates uses it for political stuff like pushing for education reform as well.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
I'm pretty sure this is about tv advertisements.
Miles Quaritch
Member
The PS3 UI doesn't lend itself to advertising. The tiled based UI for the PS4 however, in my opinion, is perfect for implementing ads.
Also, there are some ads on the PS3 UI.
CadetMahoney
Member
judging from pre-orders they'll be out in a few years.
You wait, iwatch and other wearable computing platforms are going to make browser cookies look quaint and silly by comparison. Big Brother is coming, and he is clad in cool corporate colors and you will pay to invite him into your life.
naw, its about an integrated advertising platform that will tie together mobile, tv, pc, etc. Someone who uses only bing, windows phone, windows pc, windows tablet, and xbox will be worth a lot of money to ms.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Dude, I live in the UK, Big Brother has been on our streets, buses, trains, stations, banks, bakeries, newsagents, restaurants, etc for years.
For example, at the end of my road, I have two CCTV traffic cameras up on 100/150 foot poles that can have a near 360 degree view of the entire area.
killer rin
Member
Seriously people, like the currently 360 now, to enable advertising you will need to actually go into the settings and enable ad collection. Microsoft has yet to release a product that doesn't make it an opt in for datacollection.
Those things? Pretty sure that's the "what's new?" section of the UI which shows games and what not. Seems fair enough to me and it's pretty out of the way. Plus I think they can be disabled.
The MS blades interface did not lend itself to advertising either but that didn't stop MS did it?
If Sony wanted to push some ads on XMB they would. If they can kill the Linux functionality that people paid for they can sure as hell squeeze some ads on the UI.
We currently have no reason to suspect Sony would try to set up an ad platform like Microsoft's on the PS4. If that does happen they've lost a loyal customer in me. I've been a Sony fan since PS1 but if they try and pull this sh*t MS is pulling on PS4 I'm out. But I really don't think I have anything to worry about to be honest. Maybe I will eat my words. We'll see...
It is weird, but I can kinda of agree with the cctv initiative, but only because it is public. or maybe I'm just a hypocrite, lol.
I read a UK story about a guy whose life was being ruined by a rape accusation from a woman he met at a bar, including death threats from neighbors. Using cctv footage, it was proved that her story and accusations were lies, and further investigations revealed a history of mental illness. While his life was derailed, at least the truth came out and he didn't go to jail.
dude said he liked it, why'd he unplug it?
The PS3 ads aren't really the same, considering you have to go specifically to a section called "What's New" that shows you whats new... You don't get ads unless you literally scroll specifically to them.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Those things? Pretty sure that's the "what's new?" section of the UI which shows games and what not. Seems fair enough to me and it's pretty out of the way. Plus I think they can be disabled.
The MS blades interface did not lend itself to advertising either but that didn't stop MS did it?
If Sony wanted to push some ads on XMB they would. If they can kill the Linux functionality that people paid for they can sure as hell squeeze some ads on the UI.
We currently have no reason to suspect Sony would try to set up an ad platform like Microsoft's on the PS4. If that does happen they've lost a loyal customer in me. I've been a Sony fan since PS1 but if they try and pull this sh*t MS is pulling on PS4 I'm out. But I really don't think I have anything to worry about to be honest. Maybe I will eat my words. We'll see...
You can disable what's new? I think you can set your PS3 not to start on it, but I didn't know that it could be be disabled.
I disagree, there's no realistic way to push ads on XMB without having a major redesign, the image I posted is a testament to how hard it is to implement ads that everyone sees on XMB.
Actually, the blades did somewhat lend itself to advertising. The problem was the limited amount of space, they only had two windows in which to advertise/promote content.
I think it's just being a realist. Sony themselves have talked about content discoverability and that's hard to do without advertising. How can you ensure everyone who uses your console knows that there's a new game available in the store? Sending messages might work, but there's no guarantee everyone will read it, advertising removes those issues.
The real question is will they take it as far as MS in having non gaming related ads? Will they have an ad for Lynx/Axe, McD, Mountain Dew, etc? My feeling they won't, but I think game and store related ads will be a big feature in a couple of years and that's a good thing as it makes it easier for me, as a gamer, to know that's a new game on the store without having to do anything more than turning my console. If that ad links directly to the game so I can purchase it or download the demo as is the case on 360, even better.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I agree with Michio Kaku that "little brother" is far more scary and imposing than "big brother". Someone who posts on NeoGAF is far more likely to ruin my life than Microsoft or any company gathering information on me.
Companies want to exploit and gain profit, but they lack the malice to want to do much with information other than get money. I'm sure that I've been spied on for years. But it's impersonal, and there's far too much information out there for people to actively do much with. It makes me uncomfortable, but not that uncomfortable. I feel like I take much more of a risk by putting myself out there and posting on internet forums.
That being said, I certainly don't like the sound of what is going on with the XBOX One. The Kinect seems a bit eerie of a device right now.
Companies want to exploit and gain profit, but they lack the malice to want to do much with information other than get money. I'm sure that I've been spied on for years. But it's impersonal, and there's far too much information out there for people to actively do much with. It makes me uncomfortable, but not that uncomfortable. I feel like I take much more of a risk by putting myself out there and posting on internet forums.
That being said, I certainly don't like the sound of what is going on with the XBOX One. The Kinect seems a bit eerie of a device right now.
Yep that's pretty much how it is
See here's the issue, we really shouldn't be speculating on measures/steps like these without a solid reason to. I mean we went through same cycles for online DRM, No used games, price etc already in the last few months.
Will they use ads in the UI itself..no idea. If they do I will voice my hate for it along with I'm sure majority of people in this thread who are doing the same with MS.
In addition tho, I doubt they will. I'm guessing sony will take a vita like approach here with the PS4 where they will advertise movies/games etc in the store and no where else. They kind of do it already anyways and I'm fine as long as it stays in the store itself.
The reason why I'm confident in sony (when it comes to PS4 btw, vita is a different issue and I have voiced my issues very clearly before) is mainly because it has a dedicated team behind it who understands gamers well (and to clarify I'm saying understand how gamers react to things, not trying to put them in a different pedestal to other business man in the industry)
Same reason why I lack confidence in XBone. I don't like the team behind it. They are no where near the 360 team sadly. Their approach to their new system has been baffling at best
tl;dr: No reason to have doubts about the PS4 yet so I see no need to think about it. But if they do it we will DEFINITELY talk about then
The bottom line is there are much better ways to earn more money with a console. Increasing the install base and goodwill is one such method and I don't think all this drama and potential money is worth losing that overthunder_snail
Member
The PS3 UI doesn't lend itself to advertising. The tiled based UI for the PS4 however, in my opinion, is perfect for implementing ads.
Also, there are some ads on the PS3 UI.
That's because you went to "What's new" section of the UI where you explicitly go to to check out ads.
That's akin to going to appstore on IOS or google play on android and seeing ads. Last time I checked, I don't see any ads on my android phone's home screen or my Ipad's home screen. Unless Sony is willing to be stupid again, I can't see them putting ads on their home screen either.
Miles Quaritch
Member
It's not being a hypocrite for the reason you mentioned, those are all public and while some might disagree, are there for the greater good as your example about the false rape allegations shows.
They are still ads, which is my point. Any digital store needs space to advertise and the PS3 doesn't lend itself to advertising the store in a way that raises awareness of new releases/content. The PS4 UI does, at least that's my opinion and it's been that since they first showed it.
Hey, I'd be more than happy if they got rid of it!
Or at least made it an optional purchase. They seem pretty hardcore about it tho, so I don't see it happening for a while bleachrude
Banned
I expect BOTH machines to track data.
As another poster mentions, how else are they going to recommend at the least games if they don't know what your previous purchase/playing habit is?
Steam's store front is somewhat horrible..sure there's the recommended tab but that only seems to work with old games you had on your wishlist...With the potential of way more games being released on a weekly basis thanks to indies and smaller developers, there has to be some sort of tracking
As another poster mentions, how else are they going to recommend at the least games if they don't know what your previous purchase/playing habit is?
Steam's store front is somewhat horrible..sure there's the recommended tab but that only seems to work with old games you had on your wishlist...With the potential of way more games being released on a weekly basis thanks to indies and smaller developers, there has to be some sort of tracking
killatopak
Member
You are amazing dude. You get a lot of people to eat crow. Shows that they don't even know what they're talking about. So much for credibility.
$100 wasted.
Sword Of Doom
Member
That's completely different though. I use my PS3 every day and I haven't seen those "ads" in years. You have to actually select that Icon in order to see them. And if I remember correctly it displays whatever is new or selling well on PSN. It's not like the Xbox where if you like it or not you have a Doritos add on your dashboard
has someone's life been ruined by posting on neogaf?
elementalsin
Member
I take issue with all of the 'ad's are horrible' ideology. Yes, I think you should be able to turn them off if you don't like them, and I'm not talking necessarily ontopic here about NuAds and data mining, so please forgive me... But I honestly do not see the problem with advertising things that are relevant to my interest on the device I'm buying said things for? There have been more than a couple times there was an ad for a new game on the dash that I had either completely forgotten about, or hadn't heard of/knew was coming out and I was indeed interested in the information/game... And this is coming from someone that generally speaking keeps up on the 'latest info' in gaming. Now I agree dorito's and taco bell ads are just silly and pointless, but I don't for the life of me understand this anti everything ad based on consoles. It just sounds like something else to constantly bitch about for no reason.
Again... slightly offtopic... and I am in no way agreeing with/condoning/promoting/etc NuAds and kinect being used for data mining..... That being said, I also am in the boat that believe this would have to have an opt in/out policy or MS would just be shooting themselves in the foot yet again. Time will tell, but I really do believe this is another situation where people are blowing things out of proportion.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Disconnect Kinect. Play games. End of story. That is if this is such a big deal or concern to you, even though Microsoft has already stated quite clearly, I believe, that they don't allow this kind of customer information to be shared outside of the company, or even that they're collecting this kind of personal information on people in the first place. If they were without telling people, I'm sure they would be in some serious shit, and would deserve every punishment that comes their way.
At worst this is something that customers would have to explicitly agree to and it would be off by default, in which case the burden of responsibility is on the customer for agreeing to this kind of thing in the first place.
But then, if I'm being honest, I'm no more concerned about this than I am when using a smartphone, a laptop, or even my HDTV, which is also equipped with a camera. Plus, I'm one of those people that actually want and am pretty excited about Kinect, so I don't see myself being overly concerned about this to the point that I'll disconnect it, but of course that doesn't mean I want advertisers or whoever else getting information on me. I'm, after all, one of those people who always say no to programs that ask permission to gather usage statistics to help improve the program. I even refuse to join the Norton Community Watch program that Norton 360 antivirus asks me to join when I install that. So not being all that worried about this doesn't mean that you somehow welcome people spying on you, or support your behavior and other things you may do being used for marketing or other purposes. I think they know full well they have to cross all their 't' s and dot all their 'i' s where it concerns Kinect and customer privacy.
What is your contribution to society?
At worst this is something that customers would have to explicitly agree to and it would be off by default, in which case the burden of responsibility is on the customer for agreeing to this kind of thing in the first place.
But then, if I'm being honest, I'm no more concerned about this than I am when using a smartphone, a laptop, or even my HDTV, which is also equipped with a camera. Plus, I'm one of those people that actually want and am pretty excited about Kinect, so I don't see myself being overly concerned about this to the point that I'll disconnect it, but of course that doesn't mean I want advertisers or whoever else getting information on me. I'm, after all, one of those people who always say no to programs that ask permission to gather usage statistics to help improve the program. I even refuse to join the Norton Community Watch program that Norton 360 antivirus asks me to join when I install that. So not being all that worried about this doesn't mean that you somehow welcome people spying on you, or support your behavior and other things you may do being used for marketing or other purposes. I think they know full well they have to cross all their 't' s and dot all their 'i' s where it concerns Kinect and customer privacy.
What is your contribution to society?
Data collection via the camera/microphone is not necessary to make game recommendations.
Dyack?
killatopak
Member
Oh wow. I notice that all of those that are either unaffected by this, is just plain supporting the policies or is saying "Sony too!" , are those that are heavily invested in the MS ecosystem.
Would you defend your stalker? But they spin it. "He's not stalking me he's protecting me ,just like those VIP's bodyguards, everybody's doing it!"
Would you defend your stalker? But they spin it. "He's not stalking me he's protecting me ,just like those VIP's bodyguards, everybody's doing it!"
thunder_snail
Member
Not exactly ruining someone's life, but Albert Penello must've had gone through many stressful nights reading responses to his posts. He deserves respect for still being active on gaf.
What is your contribution to society?
No need to bring that kinda talk. Everyone who has a job or is taking care of somebody is contributing to society.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Oh my goodness, yes... lol.
James Chilton
Banned
Assuming that this NUads initiative is happening, I wonder where MS sees the revenue split between advertising and video game sales.
Presumably they don't need attach rates to be quite as high if they plan to use ad revenue to assist in breaking even on the cost of the console.
Given the heavy emphasis on TV it might be that they have pretty high hopes as to what they might be able to achieve financially.
Presumably they don't need attach rates to be quite as high if they plan to use ad revenue to assist in breaking even on the cost of the console.
Given the heavy emphasis on TV it might be that they have pretty high hopes as to what they might be able to achieve financially.
mhayze
Member
First, let's address this whole scary idea of advertisers understanding / knowing / caring about what you think of an ad. Many of us, let's face it, don't want to see any ads. If you disconnect your cable, you're a good portion of the way there, but you may still see limited ads with a streaming service like Hulu / Hulu Plus.
Hulu Plus has a feature called ad tailor, that lets you skip an ad, replace an ad, or simple choose 'this ad is not relevant to me'. No more tampon commercials for a single guy. I can still go get a snack or walk away when ads come on, but when I do sit through an ad, its now at least 75% of the time for something I'm semi-interested in (games, phones, cars, music, movies, etc.) BUT, I still have to keep picking things when a new ad comes up that I don't like.
So let's take it a step further, if there's a service that anonymously records that it thinks I hated an ad (for aggregate purposes - i.e. out of an audience of targeted gamers, 80% thought the new COD ad was stupid, 20% seemed to like it), AND for me personally - i.e. person X hates all phone commercials, don't show him any, without me needing to rage about it on a forum, post about it, even click a like/hate button, honestly, I don't care. Good. Let them have my like or dislike. I actually believe that will improve my experience, and possibly even the feedback of whether the ad agency did a good job on the campaign. Really, what's so bad about having an automatic like / dislike option on every ad? I wish such a thing existed on vanilla Cable TV services. I know I'd be hitting the 'hate' button everytime I saw those stupid Progressive commercials.
If I change my mind and don't want Microsoft / advertisers to know my reaction to an ad, I'll put a piece of masking tape over the camera (or hopefully choose the opt-out option). Problem solved. I really don't believe Microsoft is going to upload video of me - if they are, they're fucking crazy, and will turn off most of their audience. It makes a lot more sense for them to record reactions as a value not a picture (smiled, frowned, showed screen middle finger, etc.)
There's a website called GameTrailers. It's full of trailers. AKA ads. People go there voluntarily and watch ads, uh, I mean trailers. There are some kinds of ads that people seek out, and if there's a way to have me see trailers for new games, and not see any Centrum Silver for Women commercials mixed in with that, then I'm not so sure that's a bad thing for me.
Then of course, there's the whole 'I just don't want to see any ads' option. And I agree, there should be an option for that. Opt out of the whole data submission thing, stay off of Xbox Live, use your game console the same way you did your NES. There's a market for that, and Microsoft should just shut up and collect the money from those people too. It's all about choice.
That's not how it works by default, I believe. The PS3 shows you ads automatically when you logon AFAIK, unless you turn it off (an option I much appreciate).
Hulu Plus has a feature called ad tailor, that lets you skip an ad, replace an ad, or simple choose 'this ad is not relevant to me'. No more tampon commercials for a single guy. I can still go get a snack or walk away when ads come on, but when I do sit through an ad, its now at least 75% of the time for something I'm semi-interested in (games, phones, cars, music, movies, etc.) BUT, I still have to keep picking things when a new ad comes up that I don't like.
So let's take it a step further, if there's a service that anonymously records that it thinks I hated an ad (for aggregate purposes - i.e. out of an audience of targeted gamers, 80% thought the new COD ad was stupid, 20% seemed to like it), AND for me personally - i.e. person X hates all phone commercials, don't show him any, without me needing to rage about it on a forum, post about it, even click a like/hate button, honestly, I don't care. Good. Let them have my like or dislike. I actually believe that will improve my experience, and possibly even the feedback of whether the ad agency did a good job on the campaign. Really, what's so bad about having an automatic like / dislike option on every ad? I wish such a thing existed on vanilla Cable TV services. I know I'd be hitting the 'hate' button everytime I saw those stupid Progressive commercials.
If I change my mind and don't want Microsoft / advertisers to know my reaction to an ad, I'll put a piece of masking tape over the camera (or hopefully choose the opt-out option). Problem solved. I really don't believe Microsoft is going to upload video of me - if they are, they're fucking crazy, and will turn off most of their audience. It makes a lot more sense for them to record reactions as a value not a picture (smiled, frowned, showed screen middle finger, etc.)
There's a website called GameTrailers. It's full of trailers. AKA ads. People go there voluntarily and watch ads, uh, I mean trailers. There are some kinds of ads that people seek out, and if there's a way to have me see trailers for new games, and not see any Centrum Silver for Women commercials mixed in with that, then I'm not so sure that's a bad thing for me.
Then of course, there's the whole 'I just don't want to see any ads' option. And I agree, there should be an option for that. Opt out of the whole data submission thing, stay off of Xbox Live, use your game console the same way you did your NES. There's a market for that, and Microsoft should just shut up and collect the money from those people too. It's all about choice.
That's not how it works by default, I believe. The PS3 shows you ads automatically when you logon AFAIK, unless you turn it off (an option I much appreciate).
It is a bit of a tangent, but manipulating people's thinking and perceptions (of which advertising is a part) do shape people in deep and pervasive ways, they really really do, from birth to death.
You would be astounded at the amount of money and research effort expended in this area.
Sword Of Doom
Member
It's a gaming console. I don't mind using my purchasing habits in the PS Store for them to make game recommendations. However "watching" how I react to a tv ad and then targeting me with specific ads I'm not ok with.
elementalsin
Member
I'm sorry... But how do you 'notice this'? Did you stalk each of them, check out their xbl and psn accounts? post history? facebook? You're just generalizing anyone who doesn't believe everything written by anyone negative about ms/xb1 must obviously be an ms/xbox fanboy.
Bottom line is that both companies DO mine data to a certain extent.... Now when the new systems are actually available and we actually see whats going on/read some user agreements and policies, then we can start saying who is blindly defending, who cares about these types of policies and who honestly just doesn't give a shit.
Melchiah
Member
The 'What's new' section is unobtrusive, as the contents only show when you actually go there. You can also set its display off.
EDIT: Took a pic.
I personally have no problems with game ads, as they go along with what the system is for, but if the platform holder starts to force-feed unrelated ads to me, unavoidably on top of the user interface, it's going to be a big problem.
No, they'll just have games that will require a Kinect being plugged in.
elementalsin
Member
No you're right, and I agree with you. But this is also a part of our society and life at this point. Marketing definitely deeply impacts pretty much every major decision of our lives. But at the same point I'm talking purely from the standpoint of a game console recommending/advertising games and other interests that fit the medium. I just don't feel THAT specific type of advertisement fits the demonizing its getting, especially when we're targeting one platform and ignoring others (again, granted ontopic this is about the potential NuAd kinect based stuff... I'm again speaking generally).
elementalsin
Member
Which we have NO proof this will ACTUALLY happen.... We need to calm down a bit and see whats really going to happen before we start spreading unconfirmed information as scripture man. If this is a reality, I'm on board with protest of it... As I've said in my previous posts in this thread, while I don't mind general ads targeting my interests, I don't agree with invading my privacy on that level. But again, we still don't KNOW this is the case and even have record of MS employees stating otherwise. I'm not saying we should blindly believe them, but I put more faith in that than a bunch of random articles rehashing old topics and trying to get hits.
EDIT: Sorry for back to back post
Sword Of Doom
Member
Of course we don't know for sure. I'm simply stating what is acceptable for me and what isn't.
What about the permanent ads in the video menu? The netflix and other icons don't go away.
The level of corporate apologists for a system where their executives are touting advertising as a huge part of their strategy makes me think that there is nothing Microsoft can do to sway some people. It's incredible how devoted some have become and how they're able to spin every shred of negative news into "it's not that bad".
After moving from N64 to Xbox to 360 to PS4 as my primary consoles each gen, being loyal to a console maker only goes as far as they don't do things to piss me off.
After moving from N64 to Xbox to 360 to PS4 as my primary consoles each gen, being loyal to a console maker only goes as far as they don't do things to piss me off.
They announced the DRM, no offline, without a care or explanation. They are pushing a Kinect with every single device, even though many people have complained, implying that "every console owner needs to own one to warrant further development and great games" - despite the fact that 24 million sales of Kinect 1 in the previous generation didn't seem to do so -- they haven't even tried to make it seem exciting, at any of their events. One of their first party games, Ryse, even went back to regular controls.
This is the way you should do this in my opinion. Not only are these ads non-intrusive, they don't take up space that could be better used for something else. And my favorite part of all, none of this is on the main home screen. Hell, the 2nd screen where all the open applications are listed are something I doubt most people ever use. The day a Burger King ad pops up is the day I stop being in favor of this. And the ads in Guacamelee are for use for the publisher or creator of the title to use. They have space to use for whatever they want.
killatopak
Member
Because I've seen them in many other threads, the fact that they're banned and wrong on many accounts? One doesn't need to look at post histories to know someone's preferences and agenda.
Bottom line is that one of the two companies is crossing the line in data mining. Would you rather wait for them to implement this or would you want them to 180 this to prevent further accusations. It's already blatantly obvious that they're doing this. They said so themselves.
When you pay for something premium you don't expect this kind of shit.
Man, I just wanna play games. I just wanna relax not worry about some goddamn company spying on me. The least they could do is help me stop worrying about it. Release a statement regarding this issue before it goes out of hand.
mhayze
Member
This is the part I don't understand. So you watch the latest COD ad, and you hate it. You frown, gesticulate, or just get up and leave the room everytime you see it. It's now recorded you didn't like this ad. What about this bothers you? You don't want the advertiser to know you hated the ad?