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[T-0800]

I assume there is a list of banned substances. Wouldn't it be better to just have list of approved substances. Not on the list. Don't take it.

 

[Kaze Kyou]

Damn at the Essendon verdict. It's gonna kill their profits, memberships and just the AFL's image in general.

As for the Hawks, hell yeah to the three-peat! I'm hoping we pump some game time into the youngsters though, especially with the midfield - Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson etc can't be winning premierships forever.

 

[mrpookles]

The 'poor players' rhetoric falls over with the revelation that all the players lied on their forms to ASADA.

You can look at the form here:https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/world-anti-doping-program/doping-control-form

Basically it's the paper work for when an athlete is drug tested. There's a box where you fill in what drugs you've taken over the last week (it even says 'supplements').

According to CAS there was never any mention from any of the Essendon players about anything Dank had given them. Strange behaviour if they thought everything was above board.

Pretty much this. The club and its sociopathic ex-coach deserve the bulk of the blame, but the players and in particular Watson and the senior players are very much culpable.

Losing Crameri hurts us... I just wish he, Monfries et al broke away as was rumoured and took it on the chin a couple of years ago.

Anyway, go Dogs. Can't wait for the footy to be back.

 

[mrpookles]

Also, listened to a bit of SEN this morning. Rohan Connolly sounded like he found out that a relative died.

For those with Foxtel, AFL 360 is required viewing tonight. Slobbo just might burst into tears on air.

The boys' club bias in AFL media is pretty fucking sickening.

 

[Jezabel]

All in all though it's gonna be a strange year, like having another new struggling club in the comp.

 

[freoleo29]

Thanks for the tip, I don't know if I would've cracked your username code otherwise

Forgot i had this name tbh, I guess thats what happens when Gaf makes it so hard to sign up! can't just pick and choose your name.

 

[jambo]

The AFL Commission will allow the club to upgrade two rookies to replace Angus Monfries and Paddy Ryder.

But the footy department will review that offer first: http://bit.ly/1JH3Isg

 

[reptilescorpio]

So does most of Australia look on Essendon pretty poorly here? The players, I mean. My husband doesn't give one whit for the team as a whole (as we're transplanted Crows in Melb), but he's definitely sympathetic to the players. I could see how a bunch of young guys would just do whatever they were told, especially if they were assured it was legal/fine. Not that it gets them off the hook or anything, but if that's the case for some, I do feel bad for them as individuals.

I do feel a bit sorry for them. They're already fucked up due to being stupid kids thrown into a fucked up system. The pressure on them is insane, just look at how messed up a lot of them turn out in terms of drug abuse and psychologically. I can't imagine what they were told at Essendon, Tim Watson was probably round at their house every night banging on windows telling them snitches get shanked in the fucking neck lol.

At the end of the day they fucked up. They are paying for it now, won't hold it against them as long as they accept responsibility for it. Fuck the old guard at Essendon though. Clear the lot out and start again anew.

Upset about Ryder, not so much Monfries.

lol I'm the opposite!

 

[Yagharek]

The old guard at Essendon are mostly all gone. The club as it stands is basically all new people in terms of figureheads, coaches and most of the playing list. So the people who will be facing the fallout from this in the future will be the majority of new players who weren't there in 2012, and new staff e.g. Tanner and Worsfold. The club itself which is a non-entity can't make reparations in any way, so you have to look to the following people:

Hird, the CEO in 2012, the medical staff, the board, Dank and Robinson, the coaching panel. Basically anyone in that group should be handed bans of the same magnitude in their current roles. The CEO should be banned from CEO spots for 2 years in any industry. Hird should have another 12 month holiday, this time unpaid. Anyone on the board should be banned for 2 years on any sporting involvement.

All the people who are culpable are not facing any punishments. The players are facing the letter of the law punishment according to WADA. It sucks if they were misled, but they shouldn't be the only ones facing any discipline.

I'm all for a witch hunt.

 

[chicko1983]

Is that real?

When is the media going to stop with the 'they are all victims' theme. They are not victims, none of them. Reading the CAS statement they all lied and deliberately went out of their way to cheat the system.
They should be asking for forgiveness, not sympathy.

x2

I assume there is a list of banned substances. Wouldn't it be better to just have list of approved substances. Not on the list. Don't take it.

Yes, there is a banned substance list:
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada-2015-prohibited-list-en.pdf

If an athlete has any doubt over the substance they are going to take, they need to contact ASADA for clarification. This is up to the person being administered, and not just taking someones word for it, as in the case with the Essendon players.

The process is not hard to abide by. Even athletes at low levels (even when I was about 15yo and playing sport for state sport institute) are told, if in doubt - DONT TAKE IT.

 

[Deleted member 18827]

Fair disclosure, I'm a League fan and don't have much time for AFL, but non Essendon fans cant be happy with how your HQ has handled this.
Three years of dragging the game through the mud and the response is to, most probably, give them the first draft pick AND cap concessions? FMD this is the biggest team doping scandal in Australian history, the club should be crippled to the point they aren't competitive for a decade, maybe even kicked out all together. From an outsiders view, it looks like the AFL only cares about protecting its product, and not about the fairness of the comp.
Plus all this bullshit about the players being victims. Some sympathy for the young rookies who would've gone with the team, but seniors players like Watson are as complicit in this Hird and Dank.
Im trying to imagine how it would've gone down if the NRL had taking such a soft stance with the Storms rorting. Surely this lettuce leaf approach isnt going to go down with the general AFL public.

 

[Yagharek]

Fair disclosure, I'm a League fan and don't have much time for AFL, but non Essendon fans cant be happy with how your HQ has handled this.
Three years of dragging the game through the mud and the response is to, most probably, give them the first draft pick AND cap concessions? FMD this is the biggest team doping scandal in Australian history, the club should be crippled to the point they aren't competitive for a decade, maybe even kicked out all together. From an outsiders view, it looks like the AFL only cares about protecting its product, and not about the fairness of the comp.
Plus all this bullshit about the players being victims. Some sympathy for the young rookies who would've gone with the team, but seniors players like Watson are as complicit in this Hird and Dank.
Im trying to imagine how it would've gone down if the NRL had taking such a soft stance with the Storms rorting. Surely this lettuce leaf approach isnt going to go down with the general AFL public.

And what, pray tell, should have happened to the Canterbury Bulldogs after their rapists and salary cap cheating incidents? Surely that should have seen a far worse penalty than Essendon.

Glass houses.

 

[H.Protagonist]

Yes. Club is a stain and my reading of the CAS statement shows players deliberately leaving out details

Seeing legend166's post, it does seem like they had a chance to mention it. I can imagine the pressure must be really tough for the younger players getting their first shot at AFL, but it's a shame the older ones didn't 'know better'.

Port knew that risk when they signed them, sorry.

I have no sympathy for the players. They could have spoken out but stood behind their club because they were lead to believe that Essendon would get them off the hook.

Strip Watson's medal please.

Make an example of them.

Shame all around it seems (of both sorts).

I do feel a bit sorry for them. They're already fucked up due to being stupid kids thrown into a fucked up system. The pressure on them is insane, just look at how messed up a lot of them turn out in terms of drug abuse and psychologically. I can't imagine what they were told at Essendon, Tim Watson was probably round at their house every night banging on windows telling them snitches get shanked in the fucking neck lol.

At the end of the day they fucked up. They are paying for it now, won't hold it against them as long as they accept responsibility for it. Fuck the old guard at Essendon though. Clear the lot out and start again anew.

lol I'm the opposite!

Yeah. While it does seem they should have certainly known better, I do feel for the younger ones. I can only imagine what went on behind the scenes for them. I do like Dyson, though.

 

[Deleted member 18827]

And what, pray tell, should have happened to the Canterbury Bulldogs after their rapists and salary cap cheating incidents? Surely that should have seen a far worse penalty than Essendon.

Glass houses.

Well the coffs incident is murky, def brought the game into disrepute, and they were fined for that. But when the authorities aren't prosecuting what could the governing body do? Lawsuits left and right for any sanctions on players.
As for the cap cheating, believe me, no opposition fan was happy with how the NRL handled that. That they won with pretty much the exact same team two years later is a black mark on the game. But they learnt their lesson and the next time a team rorted the cap so blatantly(storm) they made them shed players and were stripped of everything they had obtained through their cheating.
I wasn't attacking your game or anything, I was just genuinely interested in the fan response.

 

[Yagharek]

Well the coffs incident is murky, def brought the game into disrepute, and they were fined for that. But when the authorities aren't prosecuting what could the governing body do? Lawsuits left and right for any sanctions on players.
As for the cap cheating, believe me, no opposition fan was happy with how the NRL handled that. That they won with pretty much the exact same team two years later is a black mark on the game. But they learnt their lesson and the next time a team rorted the cap so blatantly(storm) they made them shed players and were stripped of everything they had obtained through their cheating.
I wasn't attacking your game or anything, I was just genuinely interested in the fan response.

I'm not defending AFL. You're right in that they care only about perception and have absolutely fucked up in a number of regards, including salary cap cheating incidents, rapes, illicit drug use, assaults and threats of violence, pretty much mirroring most of the NRLs debacles give or take.

I'm just exercising whataboutism in pointing out that neither code is perfect, in fact far from it. I would never defend one from the other, they're both rubbish.

Aside from that I'd say your initial post was 100% fair.

 

[Deleted member 18827]

I'm not defending AFL. You're right in that they care only about perception and have absolutely fucked up in a number of regards, including salary cap cheating incidents, rapes, illicit drug use, assaults and threats of violence, pretty much mirroring most of the NRLs debacles give or take.

I'm just exercising whataboutism in pointing out that neither code is perfect, in fact far from it. I would never defend one from the other, they're both rubbish.

Aside from that I'd say your initial post was 100% fair.

Haha yea, we have enough problems of our own. TBH, outside of stuff specific to the game like doping and cap cheating, I think too much scrutiny and blame is placed on the codes for stuff that is pretty widespread throughout the community.

 

[Chaosmidas]

Port knew that risk when they signed them, sorry.
.

I think Monfries joined before it all came out?

Pretty frustrating as a Port fan, I still think Ryder is a decent addition to the team and with time the chemistry will come. Guess that'll be pushed back a year now!

Still reckon we can make top 4 if Dixon stays fit and Schulz and Lobbe return to their 2014 form. I can't wait for the season to start, looking forward to more freakish performances from Gray and Wingard!

 

[legend166]

Fair disclosure, I'm a League fan and don't have much time for AFL, but non Essendon fans cant be happy with how your HQ has handled this.
Three years of dragging the game through the mud and the response is to, most probably, give them the first draft pick AND cap concessions? FMD this is the biggest team doping scandal in Australian history, the club should be crippled to the point they aren't competitive for a decade, maybe even kicked out all together. From an outsiders view, it looks like the AFL only cares about protecting its product, and not about the fairness of the comp.
Plus all this bullshit about the players being victims. Some sympathy for the young rookies who would've gone with the team, but seniors players like Watson are as complicit in this Hird and Dank.
Im trying to imagine how it would've gone down if the NRL had taking such a soft stance with the Storms rorting. Surely this lettuce leaf approach isnt going to go down with the general AFL public.

I agree with everything you've said. The AFL response was woeful.

From an NRL perspective, I find it funny that no one seems to care that the man who was the architect of the biggest team doping scandal in Australian history (Dank) worked in the NRL for years and years before the AFL, including with Manly while they were winning premierships. His stink is everywhere and I'm certain the NRL pushed the Cronulla players to take a deal because they didn't want that stuff investigated too thoroughly.

 

[jambo]

I think Monfries joined before it all came out?

Yeah, we got him in October 2012 and all of the drug stuff came to light a few months later in early 2013.

 

[Rubixcuba]

Brief thread hijack as we're all matey mates in here, but have we ever had an NRL thread on GAF?

 

[chicko1983]

Yeah, we got him in October 2012 and all of the drug stuff came to light a few months later in early 2013.

ah ok, I could not remember that.

However, they only got Ryder because he wanted to get out of the club, so port still benefited from this scandal, even if he doesn't get out onto the field this year.

 

[PhantomZone]

Day 2 of Esesendon being confirmed drug cheats

The sun is shining much more brighter today.

 

[AxeMan]

Seeing legend166's post, it does seem like they had a chance to mention it. I can imagine the pressure must be really tough for the younger players getting their first shot at AFL, but it's a shame the older ones didn't 'know better'.

If you're half way interested have a read through the statement. It doesn't take long and you can really see why the players are not innocent or victims.
Don't believe the media or AFL or ALFPA (man I hate them) narratives or Essendon and the players especially being victims and that we should feel sorry for them.
They knew what they were doing and were deliberately obtuse with the investigation so they could try and cover it up

Fair disclosure, I'm a League fan and don't have much time for AFL, but non Essendon fans cant be happy with how your HQ has handled this.
Three years of dragging the game through the mud and the response is to, most probably, give them the first draft pick AND cap concessions? FMD this is the biggest team doping scandal in Australian history, the club should be crippled to the point they aren't competitive for a decade, maybe even kicked out all together. From an outsiders view, it looks like the AFL only cares about protecting its product, and not about the fairness of the comp.
Plus all this bullshit about the players being victims. Some sympathy for the young rookies who would've gone with the team, but seniors players like Watson are as complicit in this Hird and Dank.
Im trying to imagine how it would've gone down if the NRL had taking such a soft stance with the Storms rorting. Surely this lettuce leaf approach isnt going to go down with the general AFL public.

I'm filthy with the AFL, have been with a long time. In my opinion they are a corrupt, manipulative, boys club with no integrity. Only concerned with $$$.
How they can possibly say that Essendon and the players need our support is stupefying. They need our forgiveness, but they are being enabled to go out and play the victim for sympathy. Makes me sick.

 

[chicko1983]

This sums up why I have no sympathy for the players:

Players fail badly on duty of care

The panel placed greatest emphasis on the standard of care that could be expected from a reasonable person in the athlete's situation.

Here, it judged that the players had fallen down badly.

CAS repeated a long-held concept, that it is an athlete's responsibility "to ensure that what goes into his body does not contain a prohibited substance."

"If an athlete wants to persuade an anti-doping tribunal, or a CAS panel, that he has been found to have a prohibited substance in his body, but that he was not at fault or negligent, or that he was not substantially at fault or negligent, he must do more than simply rely on his doctor," CAS said.

The panel laid out a series of strikes against the players:

# The players had all received AFL anti-doping education, which emphasised individual responsibility

# No player appeared to have made use of the WADA drugs hotline or any other hotline to check what they were being given

# No player appeared to have searched on the internet for information on Thymosin or to have made other inquiries about its elements or properties

# No player asked the club doctor for advice about Thymosin despite signing a consent form for its administration

# No player tested during the 2012 season revealed on his doping control form that he was in receipt of Thymosin injections

"There would be no reason to cast a veil of secrecy over something that was known positively to be lawful and innocent," CAS said.

"Given that it is the primary responsibility of the player to ensure that he does not make use of a prohibited substance, the players' lack of curiosity is fatal to the success of this particular plea [for a no significant fault finding]."

The end result is the loss of a full season of football for the players, which in some cases may signal the end of their careers.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...tal-errors-by-bombers-led-to-downfall/7085292

 

[Yagharek]

Saw an article on Abc news today about the tests and players hiding it from doctors including one who developed cardiac arrhythmia. This player hid the supplement history from his personal doctor who was also the club doctor Reid. Only revealed it to a specialist he was referred to.

If that's the case then
A) the players deserve to be banned and
B) the club deserves to be sued by players by administering a dangerous supplement without adequate controls or medical advice regardless of consent forms.
C) hird, dank, and their associates must be sued too.

 

[jambo]

AFL 360 - Essendon Decision Special

Robbo is hilarious in this one.

"Football clubs are like an army sometimes," implying that following orders is a good enough excuse. The article that chicko1983 linked blows that stupid argument apart.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Brief thread hijack as we're all matey mates in here, but have we ever had an NRL thread on GAF?

Not that I'm aware of. Fun fact my old man used to play for Cronulla Sharks, many decades ago.

 

[chicko1983]

Brief thread hijack as we're all matey mates in here, but have we ever had an NRL thread on GAF?

yeah pretty sure there has been

 

[jambo]

I don't understand how they are still saying this

Jobe Watson devastated by ban, maintains players' innocence

"The decision announced by the Court of Arbitration for Sport to uphold WADA’s appeal is devastating," Watson said in a statement on behalf of the 34 current and former players.

"We are struggling to come to terms with this decision, and feel it does not support the players’ firm belief that we are innocent.

"Our legal team is conducting a thorough review of the decision and will explore any avenues available to us."

 

[chicko1983]

I don't understand how they are still saying this

Jobe Watson devastated by ban, maintains players' innocence

They are still saying this because they have A LOT to lose if they are guilty and they are being advised by people from organisations that also have A LOT to lose if they are guilty i.e. Essendon FC and the AFL.

Then to compound this feeling of being victims, there are a whole heap of past and present players in the media saying they are not guilty.

Then there are a whole heap of uneducated fans who are also saying they are victims and not guilty just because they were doing what they were asked.

The thing that I hate is that the government will continue to support the AFL with buckets of money and spending on stadia despite their shitty track record with drugs (PEDs and recreational). The best way to clean up the sport will be for the government to threaten to cut funding unless the AFL pulls its socks up. Then you might actually get some real action from the AFL towards Essendon, rather than the slaps on the wrists it initially gave.

If Watson doesnt get his Brownlow taken from him, I'm out.

 

[jambo]

I suppose it's not that I don't understand why they are still saying this and more that it is so fucking obvious that they are guilty and it just shits me.

If Watson doesnt get his Brownlow taken from him, I'm out.

He has to at this point, no way the AFL can just ignore it.

 

[chicko1983]

I suppose it's not that I don't understand why they are still saying this and more that it is so fucking obvious that they are guilty and it just shits me.

He has to at this point, no way the AFL can just ignore it.

Maybe they are still in the denial stage of guilt?

It took the UCI two weeks to strip Lance Armstrong of his tour de france wins following USADA's ruling. Lets see how long it takes the AFL to act.

 

[Omikron]

This twitter conversation is interesting on the Zaharakis needle phobia story.

https://twitter.com/ChrisKaias/status/687437696441044992


Honestly, wherever you look it makes the Essendon Football Club look worse.

 

[legend166]

Maybe they are still in the denial stage of guilt?

It took the UCI two weeks to strip Lance Armstrong of his tour de france wins following USADA's ruling. Lets see how long it takes the AFL to act.

They've already invited Jobe to a Commission hearing in February to discuss the issue. I think they're just waiting for things to die down so they don't have to take it off him.

I don't know what there is to discuss. He's been found guilty of doping through 2012. People are ruled ineligible for the Brownlow if they get a one game suspension. I would have thought year long doping would make him ineligible, but this is the AFL we're talking about.

If you look at his stats from 2012, he has a career high in basically every single statistic that matters. All at once. Then in 2013, everything drops right back where it was before he doped.

I know having a career year doesn't mean you doped, but when you're found to have doped during your career year? Yeahhhh, you shouldn't get to keep the Brownlow.

 

[Omikron]

I honestly don't know why they even invited him. Seems a bit like asking someone to beg for forgiveness.

 

[legend166]

This twitter conversation is interesting on the Zaharakis needle phobia story.

https://twitter.com/ChrisKaias/status/687437696441044992


Honestly, wherever you look it makes the Essendon Football Club look worse.

Yeah, what's become incredibly clear now is that everyone involved knew that they'd cheated, including the players. Which of course completely flies in the face of the AFL pushed media narrative that the players were innocent all along and duped by big bad Dank.

I hope ASADA catches them breaking the rules of their punishment and bans them some more.

 

[chicko1983]

They've already invited Jobe to a Commission hearing in February to discuss the issue. I think they're just waiting for things to die down so they don't have to take it off him.

I don't know what there is to discuss. He's been found guilty of doping through 2012. People are ruled ineligible for the Brownlow if they get a one game suspension. I would have thought year long doping would make him ineligible, but this is the AFL we're talking about.

If you look at his stats from 2012, he has a career high in basically every single statistic that matters. All at once. Then in 2013, everything drops right back where it was before he doped.

I know having a career year doesn't mean you doped, but when you're found to have doped during your career year? Yeahhhh, you shouldn't get to keep the Brownlow.

Yeah didnt they have an unbelievable start to 2012 and were undefeated in about 12 first games?

I wouldnt be surprised they backed off the TB4 after the halfway point as winning too much would have put them under the spotlight!

They all started that season saying how much weight they had lost while keeping their muscle mass - which is unsurprisingly one of the major benefits of using TB4, with its ability to aid recovery making easier to lose weight and gain muscle.

 

[Yagharek]

They are still saying this because they have A LOT to lose if they are guilty and they are being advised by people from organisations that also have A LOT to lose if they are guilty i.e. Essendon FC and the AFL.

Then to compound this feeling of being victims, there are a whole heap of past and present players in the media saying they are not guilty.

Then there are a whole heap of uneducated fans who are also saying they are victims and not guilty just because they were doing what they were asked.

The thing that I hate is that the government will continue to support the AFL with buckets of money and spending on stadia despite their shitty track record with drugs (PEDs and recreational). The best way to clean up the sport will be for the government to threaten to cut funding unless the AFL pulls its socks up. Then you might actually get some real action from the AFL towards Essendon, rather than the slaps on the wrists it initially gave.

If Watson doesnt get his Brownlow taken from him, I'm out.

1. The AFL is a massive business with billion dollar media deals. They should be getting precisely zero federal or state dollars irrespective of the illicit/PED drug issues.
2. Watson's Brownlow should be reconsidered after all legal avenues are explored as that is a natural justice issue. If players are still considering legal action through Federal avenues then let's see if any action is taken. If not, then do it. That said, on those terms you should also be stripping Brownlow medals from Ben Cousins and Chris Judd for drugs and eye gouging respectively.

This twitter conversation is interesting on the Zaharakis needle phobia story.

https://twitter.com/ChrisKaias/status/687437696441044992


Honestly, wherever you look it makes the Essendon Football Club look worse.

That twitter conversation is entirely hearsay. Where is the actual transcript or recording?

 

[chicko1983]

1. The AFL is a massive business with billion dollar media deals. They should be getting precisely zero federal or state dollars irrespective of the illicit/PED drug issues.
2. Watson's Brownlow should be reconsidered after all legal avenues are explored as that is a natural justice issue. If players are still considering legal action through Federal avenues then let's see if any action is taken. If not, then do it. That said, on those terms you should also be stripping Brownlow medals from Ben Cousins and Chris Judd for drugs and eye gouging respectively.

I think the AFL runs a lot of community events at football clubs and Aus-kick etc, this is how they justify getting money from the government.

Its easier for government to spend money like that than having to run those events themselves.

I agree they should only take the brownlow off him if no other appeals are ongoing, but I thought that the CAS tribunal is the last resort?

And were Cousins and Judd ever found guilty of drug use or eye gouging in their Brownlow years? If so, then yeah, they should be stripped too.

I thought that Watson's case is different because he has now been found to have used PEDs in the year he won the Brownlow. If it was a different year, then things get complicated.

 

[jambo]

Yeah didnt they have an unbelievable start to 2012 and were undefeated in about 12 first games?

They won 10 out of their first 13 games, and those 3 losses were 1 point, 6 points and 4 points respectively.

Not bad.

 

[Westlo]

They won 10 out of their first 13 games, and those 3 losses were 1 point, 6 points and 4 points respectively.

Not bad.

A lot of them wins were against shit teams though.

R1 - North 8th
R2 - Port 14th (@ Eithad)
R3 - Gold Coast 17th
R4 - Carlton 10th
R5 - Pies 4th (Lost)
R6 - Brisbane 13th (@ Eithad)
R7 - West Coast 5th (@ Eithad)
R8 - Richmond 12th
R9 - GWS 18th
R10 - Melbourne 16th (Lost)
R11 - Sydney 3rd (Lost) (@ Eithad)
R12 - BYE
R13 - Fremantle 7th
R14 - Western Bulldogs 15th

They were flat track bullies in that period, only notable wins were against West Coast and Fremantle really.. North was the first round... I remember Lloyd kicked 8 leading us to a win against the reigning premiers Sydney in round 1 once... we finished that season second last and they were runners up.

Dat Sydney game @ Eithad is pretty telling though... back in those days you never saw a team tear Sydney up the way Essendon did in the last quarter of that game which they would've won with 5 more seconds.... (why'd you play on Dempsey!)

 

[PhantomZone]

I don't understand how they are still saying this

Jobe Watson devastated by ban, maintains players' innocence

James Hird has taught them well, the delusion is strong in them all.

 

[Banderdash]

Can someone explain the tread title joke?.. I don't get it.

 

[legend166]

Can someone explain the tread title joke?.. I don't get it.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Banderdash]

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Christ I'm stupid... I was trying to work out if it was an Arab Spring reference.

 

[Yagharek]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...rship-player-ken-judge-dies2c-aged-58/7091106

Ken Judge has died. Only 58. Cancer.

Never knew he was ill, the guy was on radio here in WA every single weekend.

 

[jambo]

2016 is apparently the year of Cancer.

=[

 

[Yagharek]

Oh no, it was his birthday too. Tragic all round.

 

[speedpop]

A cruel mistress.


It will be interesting to see how Carlton fare this season. Small building blocks but there's a tiny bit inside of me that is holding out on at least a top 12 finish.

The issue is finding out who is going to score our goals since our frontline of a few years gone by are playing for other teams. Hopefully some of the forward half team will pick it up and learn the lesson from the "kick it to Kouta cause he's all we got!" mantra of the early/mid 2000s.

 

[bomma_man]

I had a couple of coaching sessions from brendon back in the early 00s. Nice guy. And we went on won three flags in a row.