HiredN00bs
Member
Way to show those assholes
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"Aggressive vegans" are putting off people from changing eating habits, study finds
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
Sure they exist. There's people that eat couches too. Aggressive vegans just aren't an issue though.
This study was for England and in England there are roughly 550,000 vegans.
How many of those are "aggressive vegans"? Let's say it's 10% even though it's probably lower than that. That means there are 55,000 "aggressive vegans".
If roughly 18,000,000 meat eating adults in England can't change their diets due to the attitudes of 55,000 "aggressive vegans" then there is something wrong here and it's not the "aggressive vegans".
Ding ding
As with... pretty much every group of people ever, people will always think of the most extreme examples of the followers of their beliefs. Both good and bad, depending on how they want to think of said group.
I know you're probably joking, but just in case anyone's going to make this claim for real:
https://www.facebook.com/iamdominickthompson/
Electric Eye
Banned
The rule I follow for anything I'm into is to never seek out groups dedicated to that thing/s because it will always turn you off of it.
IMO aggressive vegans are not so much people like this GAFer's cousin's wife:
but more like people like this:
But I live in Europe where demonstrations and these kinds of public "happenings" are more common than in the US, I think.
I've never been a vegitarian, let alone vegan but what about any of those demonstrations are aggressive? Seems like people are free to go about their day and ignore it. And those demonstrating are allowed to speak out on their passions or would you rather their free-speech be suppressed?
ChronotriggerJM
Member
My gripe is with the Vegan narratives. I was watching some documentary on soil health, and it tries to come to terms with outputs, biodiversity, wellness for animals, carbon sequestration, etc etc etc. Proper soil sustainability is great for all diets, and I feel like it takes on a less aggressive message.
The misses then puts on what the health, and it's just how meat is a carcinogen, like cigarettes, animals are polluting everything, taking all the water, etc etc, and presents it as the only solution is Veganism, disregarding a ton of nuanced conversations. In his other documentary, he totally brushes off the work that Allan Savory is putting in with different methods of land regeneration, because it doesn't fit his narrative.
Rambling aside, I think Veganism messaging feels too guilt inducing, instead of just being happy with the health benefits. I know a few Vegans that are proud because they just feel better on it, it doesn't just have to be about animal murder.
The misses then puts on what the health, and it's just how meat is a carcinogen, like cigarettes, animals are polluting everything, taking all the water, etc etc, and presents it as the only solution is Veganism, disregarding a ton of nuanced conversations. In his other documentary, he totally brushes off the work that Allan Savory is putting in with different methods of land regeneration, because it doesn't fit his narrative.
Rambling aside, I think Veganism messaging feels too guilt inducing, instead of just being happy with the health benefits. I know a few Vegans that are proud because they just feel better on it, it doesn't just have to be about animal murder.
yanipheonu
Member
If you want to change people's minds, talk less about how something upsets you, and more how something benefits them.
Albino_Yeti
Member
Veganism isn't a health thing though, it's by definition an animal rights movement (the health side is often referred to as plant based). "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose." - From the Vegan society. Fuck the healthy side, takeaway tonight!
People are turned off on a visceral level by blood and gore and take it as a personal affront when they are reminded that they like eating things that were once alive and capable of pain and fear
IMO aggressive vegans are not so much people like this GAFer's cousin's wife:
but more like people like this:
But I live in Europe where demonstrations and these kinds of public "happenings" are more common than in the US, I think.
Yeah I live in the UK and I saw chose Vegan ads on the side of the Bus and I just found it to be preachy with nonsense messaging targeted to tug the heart string.
I have nothing against Vegan but I shouldn't have to be made feel bad for choosing to eat meat, eggs and drinking milk.
eating meat doesnt make you an asshole ... lol. If that is your position then fuck yeah ill keep flauting that I eat meat even being indian my diet is must more tilted towards a vegetarian/vegan diet than the american diet.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
These kinds of actions aren't very effective. They just come off as bunches of looneys and are mocked while their message go completely ignored.
RedSparrows
Member
Been veggie for 12 years and try and act as fairly and politely to all as possible re the ethics et al.
Had way more meaties banging on about 'veggie nutters' than have seen veggies or vegans be assholes about it.
That said, i have seen some!
Had way more meaties banging on about 'veggie nutters' than have seen veggies or vegans be assholes about it.
That said, i have seen some!
Snowybreak
Member
So, I work in food service, and most vegans I serve are just regular, normal people. But, just like every group, there's a few assholes who come through. Most of the assholes never become regulars, and those who do tend to lay off the shitty attitude when we show that we can easily accommodate any dietary restrictions.
They exist out there. Not in huge numbers, but they exist.
Agressive vegans are definitely not a myth.
My best friends ex was one of them. Always linking us to videos about slaughtered animals, busting in in BBQ-discussions/plannings, even tough no one asked her.
It was almost insufferable. But I won't deny that her vegan cookies were ace!
Luckily my ex wasn't like that. In fact I had to remind myself most of the time that she was vegan and purchase the food accordingly lol
My best friends ex was one of them. Always linking us to videos about slaughtered animals, busting in in BBQ-discussions/plannings, even tough no one asked her.
It was almost insufferable. But I won't deny that her vegan cookies were ace!
Luckily my ex wasn't like that. In fact I had to remind myself most of the time that she was vegan and purchase the food accordingly lol
gutter_trash
Banned
The irony is that many vegans own cats or dogs.
Still Facebook friends with him, had to unfollow
Sounds exactly like my old art director
Still Facebook friends with him, had to unfollow
Muppet of a Man
Member
There are things to learn from vegetarianism and veganism: eating less meat is good for your health and more sustainable.
Good rule of thumb: try restricting yourself to 2 servings of meat a week for massive health benefits and helping to save the planet.
Most of our ancestors only ate meat twice a week because it was expensive. And they benefited greatly from that expense in just about all areas of their life.
Good rule of thumb: try restricting yourself to 2 servings of meat a week for massive health benefits and helping to save the planet.
Most of our ancestors only ate meat twice a week because it was expensive. And they benefited greatly from that expense in just about all areas of their life.
BlackGoku03
Member
Those figures sound like an excuse. Was the study multiple choice? They saw the "blame vegans" option and said, "hey, yeah, sure. Let's go with that."
I'll be perfectly honest, I love the taste of meat too much to give it up. I certainly do eat less nowadays, but I only have one life to live and I'm going to enjoy it whilst grilling some ribs.
I do recognize the horrible meat industry but if Oprah couldn't bring them down, what can we do about it? No amount of nice vegans/vegetarians are going to make the majority of the people on earth stop eating meat long enough for the industries to get their shit together.
No it doesn't. They may have their "reasons" but they aren't good reasons. Not enough to make a difference. And I know you're going to explain it to me but... my meat isn't going to jump on your plate if you sit at my table/booth. At the same time, I'm not going to invite you to a down south BBQ joint if you don't eat meat.
I'll be perfectly honest, I love the taste of meat too much to give it up. I certainly do eat less nowadays, but I only have one life to live and I'm going to enjoy it whilst grilling some ribs.
I do recognize the horrible meat industry but if Oprah couldn't bring them down, what can we do about it? No amount of nice vegans/vegetarians are going to make the majority of the people on earth stop eating meat long enough for the industries to get their shit together.
No it doesn't. They may have their "reasons" but they aren't good reasons. Not enough to make a difference. And I know you're going to explain it to me but... my meat isn't going to jump on your plate if you sit at my table/booth. At the same time, I'm not going to invite you to a down south BBQ joint if you don't eat meat.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Did you know that the vast majority of vegan-owned cats and dogs are pets from shelters or pets that other assholes abandoned during holidays? Maybe if assholes didn't abandon them vegans wouldn't need to adopt them.
Albino_Yeti
Member
Not sure I believe this study. Or rather, the answers people are giving. Highly doubt two thirds of those surveyed genuinely had considered switching in the past year. I think that's a lie people tell themselves to feel better (when more likely it was a passing thought, not a major consideration), just like blaming your lack of switch on the actions of other people makes you feel better.
Ultimately it is getting harder and harder to justify eating meat. The more info comes out the more guilty people are gonna feel. You either come to terms with eating it and accept it's not really okay, switch to vegan/vegetarianism, or double down and blame other things for your decision.
My current 'justification' is that a student budget makes living without meat too hard money-wise and meal-planning wise. And the current plan is to go vegan when I have a job that pays well enough to allow for it. I wonder what I would have put in the survey? Because if I'm honest it's a flimsy justification and I have never truly explored the switch on my budget seriously. Which means I guess I should accept it's not really okay and I'm not a great person in this aspect.
Ultimately it is getting harder and harder to justify eating meat. The more info comes out the more guilty people are gonna feel. You either come to terms with eating it and accept it's not really okay, switch to vegan/vegetarianism, or double down and blame other things for your decision.
My current 'justification' is that a student budget makes living without meat too hard money-wise and meal-planning wise. And the current plan is to go vegan when I have a job that pays well enough to allow for it. I wonder what I would have put in the survey? Because if I'm honest it's a flimsy justification and I have never truly explored the switch on my budget seriously. Which means I guess I should accept it's not really okay and I'm not a great person in this aspect.
As somebody who is doing maintenance keto long-term, I can understand wanting to advocate for a preferred eating habit. It has improved my health significantly and I could talk about the diet for hours. I'd imagine that desire can feel even more pressing for vegetarians / vegans who eat as they do because of moral objections to consuming animal products.
However, everybody is different and should find a diet that is healthy and sustainable for them personally. What is ideal for me could be morally or physiologically objectionable to the next person.
My philosophy: educate if the other party is willing to listen; don't preach to people who aren't soliciting information/advice (though I am a hypocrite because I consistently condemn refined sugars as metaphorical poison whenever that particular topic comes up).
However, everybody is different and should find a diet that is healthy and sustainable for them personally. What is ideal for me could be morally or physiologically objectionable to the next person.
My philosophy: educate if the other party is willing to listen; don't preach to people who aren't soliciting information/advice (though I am a hypocrite because I consistently condemn refined sugars as metaphorical poison whenever that particular topic comes up).
I am calling it. This is the NeoGAF Post of the Day.
That's a different conversation and I agree it's not very effective given how many people look like they're ignoring them in those photos.
But I think it's pretty thats pretty passive in terms of demonstrations.
Could they be more effective in their message yeah but I've seen this demonstrations all the time downtown and everyone just walks around those displays without a single interruption in their day.
Their might be far more aggressive demonstrations but I've never seen them personally.
I hear here of Vegans stepping outside the room, refusing to enter a restaurant that serves meat...
Is it a scent thing that makes them nauseus ? Are meat eaters evil ? In short is it a physical or a religious problem in those extreme cases ? Because I never met one of those. Just the regular ones who won't eat meat so we can prepare them something else, but still eat with us.
Is it a scent thing that makes them nauseus ? Are meat eaters evil ? In short is it a physical or a religious problem in those extreme cases ? Because I never met one of those. Just the regular ones who won't eat meat so we can prepare them something else, but still eat with us.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Exactly.
No, but it does make you more complicit in the suffering of animals.
If you're aware of that and fine with it then fair enough. In time I think the entire planet will be vegan anyway, if we make it that far.
I've seen interactions with vegans devolve when certain vegans used slavery imagery to raise awareness, completely forgetting that Black people in this country were lower than animals. It was a photo of a pig being lynched.
Also, conversations turned badly when the cost of food was mentioned, and people had to explain that food deserts exist, and availability affected cost and choice.
This is a very small number mind you and I wouldn't say this attitude is prevalent but if someone has an encounter with a militant vegan, I can see how it can sour people.
And as a side piece, I don't think a person owes anyone explanation of their eating habits unless they're physicians or something. People can have medical restrictions relating to diet, and they should not have to disclose anything to strangers.
Also, conversations turned badly when the cost of food was mentioned, and people had to explain that food deserts exist, and availability affected cost and choice.
This is a very small number mind you and I wouldn't say this attitude is prevalent but if someone has an encounter with a militant vegan, I can see how it can sour people.
And as a side piece, I don't think a person owes anyone explanation of their eating habits unless they're physicians or something. People can have medical restrictions relating to diet, and they should not have to disclose anything to strangers.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Steak, burger, hotdogs, sushi, bacon, Thanksgiving turkey, and everything tangentially related is just too good. I'll gladly eat lab-grown meat and I prefer grassfed beef and free range chicken, but I'm never going to stop.
Getting called a murderer or a monster or whatever because of that does the opposite of endear me to their philosophy.
Getting called a murderer or a monster or whatever because of that does the opposite of endear me to their philosophy.
I think it's more Vegans are ethically against meat, meat eaters aren't ethically against plant based foods. (Side note you keep your meat off my plate then we're good).
Anecdotally we have a Veggie mostly Vegan all you can eat place in my city. A work mate joked he'd hate it/sneak a steak in and spent week complaining. Came back after going with his in laws saying it was pretty nice and he left stuffed enjoying the food.
Inferno313
Banned
There's an argument to be made that the concept of pet ownership is problematic from a vegan perspective, absolutely. But the fact of the matter is that through years of domestication these animals, particularly dogs, are not really capable of living without people. So I don't see the harm in having a domesticated pet. It's not like my tiny pug/dachshund mix rescue that has bad front legs is going to survive on it's own, were I to release her.
I do have a BIG problem with exotic pet ownership. If it can survive in the wild, it should.
I also always encourage to go through a rescue rather than through a pet store or breeder.
It would be if the goal was reducing humanity's carbon footprint by a more plant-based diet, but most people are vegans because of a moral reason, and "eating less animals" isn't really their goal when >0 animals is unacceptable.
Doesn't that apply to basically almost every animal raised for food as well, though? Cows and pigs and chickens are all substantially different from their wild versions (or even domesticated versions for 100–300 years ago.) They wouldn't survive either. I suppose you can argue that if people stop eating meat, even if there's a mass die off of livestock it'd be worth reduced suffering in the future, but the same principles of demand apply to pets as well.
Snowybreak
Member
Oh fuck yeah, when muscle fiber can be produced independently of the animal, I'm hopping on that train forever.
Inferno313
Banned
Nah. TONS of vegans are vegans exactly because of this. Most modern vegan documentaries are heavily about this idea. That's largely why I'm a vegan.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
Rather meet an "aggressive vegan" that has empathy enough to not eat other living beings, than someone not aggressive but who lack the empathy to not each other living beings.
The only reason I wasn't a vegan for the last year was because my doctor and nutritionist both /strongly/ advise against it due to my Ulcerative Colitis. They both reasoned that the foods I'd need to replace the protein ect... would be harder for my gut to deal with, and the chance of my healthy recovery would lessen.
As it was pretty bad this time I followed their advice. Now I'm better I'm going to try again, but during this period I definitely felt terrible about telling my vegan friends what happened and I had no need to. They didn't judge me, as they don't judge anyone.
I still felt shitty though.
And I understand why some people get defensive in the face of militant veganism, but it spreads outside of this far too often imo and most vegans are nowhere near that.
I think you'll find that's actually the primary reason for the majority of vegans.
Feel free to look into it more.
Finale Fireworker
Member
My girlfriend is vegan and doesn't care what anybody else eats.
Just like most vegans.
Just like most vegans.
i can see that happening but will take a lot of time till vegen substitutes for animal meat is cheap enough to be a viable alternative in third world countries. If and when that happens Id be fine with shifting if the imitation is nearly identical. Till then I'm fine with killing animals.
Schucky Ducky
Banned
I feel like we had thread by another member where something similar happened. Can't remember how long ago it was though.
If you're feeling bad about it that's not the vegan's fault. I'm a meat eater and I own the implications of that rather than willfully ignoring it, I just try and eat free range and good-quality meat whenever I can even if it costs a little more. Those ads are only as aggressive as you want them to be.
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