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[HiredN00bs]

Last time I checked we did not yet have the technology to read the thoughts of other species. I can wager a guess that small to medium sized predators that feed on smaller prey do not feel sorry for their food when they kill it, but do feel upset when their mates or children are eaten by larger predators. But given that it is a natural part of the animal kingdom and most living species behave this way, I also don't think they are sitting around holding meetings about what to do about the evil predator problem, since they themselves are predators and understand the way biological systems and the world works.

In that respect, I'm like them. I don't really care, I just want to eat (other animals)

We have enough information to know that mammals like cows and pigs are sentient and intelligent. They experience pain, they protect themselves and their young, they grieve their dead...so why is it okay to own them as property? Why is it okay to slaughter them for fancy? If you can survive on things that aren't sentient, why wouldn't you? Do you really care so little about the suffering of others?

 

[Servbot24]

I care, but not enough stop eating meat. Not as if it would make a difference anyway.

Kind of like how I care about the inhuman conditions used to make my smart phone/electronics, but not enough to stop buying them.

I have varying levels of care about things, and things I turn a blind eye to because they benefit me. Most people are like that.

I don't eat vegan to make a difference, I do it to be true to my personal beliefs.

I don't expect everyone to do the same, but I do expect to not be treated like I'm automatically a hyperaggressive asshole when I'm just quietly sitting here eating a salad.

I get that people don't like to be told they're doing something wrong, but the vilification of people who are by and large going out of their way to be moral and world-conscious seems entirely disproportionate.

 

[Majukun]

My vegan friend is on FB right now saying definitively that Jesus did not fish and probably did not eat meat. He's not a religious scholar and all he really knows about Christianity is based off googling. So yes I understand the "vegans are ridiculous" argument.

At the same time check the vegan thread on NeoGAF to find stories about vegan's friends/families/co-workers shitting on them for their views.

Per the article though, the idea that some people would go vegetarian/vegan if it wasn't for those "pushy plant eaters" is funny as hell. You were really considering changing your diet so drastically but then someone was preachy so you just lost interest? Sounds like a flaky person.

well,it's the testimonial concept

if someone we consider good/cool/smart does something,we kind of want to do it too

if someone annoying,preachy or in any way kind of unpleasant does,we are less attracted by the option..or worse we don't take it seriously because we don't take seriously the guy that it's proposing it.

it's the difference between being taught religion by a creationist flat.-earther and by a simple guy that knows what is science and what is religion...starting from the same point,the latter will probably be more convincing if the listener was coming by an agnostic perspective...which is the closst thing i can think of to someone that could become a vegan, but it's not THAT interested.

 

[Zakalwe]

A lot of optional things aren't necessary. You don't have to drive a car. You don't need to travel. You don't need to drink alcohol. You don't need to smoke weed. You don't need to play video games. You don't need to watch TV. The necessary argument never stands because a lot of things in life aren't necessary but people still do them. Why? Because it brings them joy. As long as the ecosystem isn't shattered to a million bits, then it's all good.

But there's the direct link to the suffering that's the key of the argument here, and the impact on the environment, etc...

We should always be looking at ways to reduce the suffering our impact causes, moving away from meat and animal produce is a very obvious one and a great tarting point.

Well, yeah, we're not hunter-gathers as in foragers anymore but we still as a civilization hunt. That portion just is much smaller than what it used to be.

No, we farm.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

We have enough information to know that mammals like cows and pigs are sentient and intelligent. They experience pain, they protect themselves and their young, they grieve their dead...so why is it okay to own them as property? Why is it okay to slaughter them for fancy? If you can survive on things that aren't sentient, why wouldn't you? Do you really care so little about the suffering of others?

What's to say plants don't experience the same emotions? Just because they lack a nervous system like most fauna doesn't mean they don't have similar experiences? So what happens if thats proven? Do we stop eating all together?

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01...may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

 

[Shredderi]

Well, yeah. The world we actually live in vs the world we want to live in. In order to get results in the former, you have to operate like you exist in the former. Of course you want to live in the latter and think that being militant about veganism will have the result you seek. But actually doing that in this world we do live in won't have those results. It might indeed have the opposite result instead, so if one's objective is to get more people to drop meat like this, they might actually be actively fighting against their own cause.

 

[Mael]

Problem is the ecosystem is getting shattered HARD by factory farming. And those other things aren't necessary but they don't involve killing sentient beings.

I don't think you need to convince that many people that factory farming is not super ethical, but then again it's also kind of shit for produce too.
Feels like something need to be done, just cutting meat isn't going to be enough and highly inefficient too.

We have enough information to know that mammals like cows and pigs are sentient and intelligent. They experience pain, they protect themselves and their young, they grieve their dead...so why is it okay to own them as property? Why is it okay to slaughter them for fancy? If you can survive on things that aren't sentient, why wouldn't you? Do you really care so little about the suffering of others?

I'm not gonna eat insects.
And we do lots of bad things that aren't needed for survival, doesn't mean they should be outright banned either.

 

[Zepp Twofist]

edit:nvm. too late in the thread and I havent read most of it

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

Again: what about the vegans you met that you didn't know about due to the fact they weren't writing blogs or preaching the good word?

And a vegan diet is not just rice and beans. Poor people can be vegan. Trust me, I've been poor and vegan (and healthy) for quite a few years out of my lifetime.

I tend to end up eating with most people I claim I know. All vegans had told me way before we had the chance to eat together. Not the vegetarians. And I mean, two of my best friends are vegans, now one of them is a raw vegan (the logistics baffle me) and I've gone through some lectures so I know all the arguments. Every time you guys will say it.

About affordability, without knowing where you leave it remains anecdotal because the world is very big. And even then, providing 7000 million people with their necessary proteins and minerals on a solely vegan food production pipeline is a long shot. Nutrient rich plants are very harming to the environment.

 

[Zakalwe]

I tend to end up eating with most people I claim I know. All vegans had told me way before we had the chance to eat together. Not the vegetarians. And I mean, two of my best friends are vegans, now one of them is a raw vegan (the logistics baffle me) and I've gone through some lectures so I know all the arguments. Every time you guys will say it.

Two things:

1. No, we won't.

2. I always find it hard to believe when a person claims every vegan they know is this way, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as it's bound to happen to some people.

About affordability, without knowing where you leave it remains anecdotal because the world is very big. And even then, providing 7000 million people with their necessary proteins and minerals on a solely vegan food production pipeline is a long shot. Nutrient rich plants are very harming to the environment.

More harmful than livestock?

 

[Subpar Spatula]

But there's the direct link to the suffering that's the key of the argument here, and the impact on the environment, etc...

We should always be looking at ways to reduce the suffering our impact causes, moving away from meat and animal produce is a very obvious one and a great tarting point.



No, we farm.

We are moving away from meat eating. Vegan alternatives is a sign of this. It's not an overnight thing. It's just not feasable for a lot of people. So you can't say it's not necessary.

We farm our prey. You're missing a lot here.

 

[jph139]

A lot of optional things aren't necessary. You don't have to drive a car. You don't need to travel. You don't need to drink alcohol. You don't need to smoke weed. You don't need to play video games. You don't need to watch TV. The necessary argument never stands because a lot of things in life aren't necessary but people still do them. Why? Because it brings them joy. As long as the ecosystem isn't shattered to a million bits, then it's all good.

"It's okay to do something as long as the harm that results is beneath a certain threshold."

That's something that most people can agree with. The issue is where to draw the line. If an animal suffers and dies as a result of the action, that should be over the line, right? If the PS4 ran on kitten blood I'd definitely looking people playing video games.

Humans are designed to eat meat along with other things, while I respect a persons decision to veer away from it, they have no right to try and interfere with my life. I couldn't care less about their opinion of what i'm eating. Just like an overweight person who is eating cake shouldn't have someone jump down their throat because of the calorie content, get over it. I'm not ignorant to the fact i'm eating animals, I simply choose to do it, vegans often act like they have some sort of revelation to display, it's like religious cultist.

Fact of the matter is, if you're at my table eating a vegan meal, I won't comment on it outside of asking if you enjoy it, I respect most decisions people make until they attempt to interfere with mine. You won't enlighten me or change my mind on that subject.

From your point of view, being vegan and not being vegan is ethically agnostic. Neither is any better or worse than the other. But from a vegan point of view, eating meat is morally wrong. It's no different than anything else. Like, take the following:

- You do a bad thing.
- "Man, you're doing a bad thing."
- "You have no right to tell me that the thing I'm doing is bad."

You realize that in most contexts that's not really a valid moral defense, right?

 

[Zakalwe]

We farm our prey. You're missing a lot here.

Can someone else deal with this one, please? I've run out of steam.

 

[PabloBolivar]

We are moving away from meat eating. Vegan alternatives is a sign of this. It's not an overnight thing. It's just not feasable for a lot of people. So you can't say it's not necessary.

We farm our prey. You're missing a lot here.

I agree. Fish farming is even a big thing now. It's really not a big leap from farmed fish flesh to an oozy meat substitute.

 

[cpp_is_king]

We have enough information to know that mammals like cows and pigs are sentient and intelligent. They experience pain, they protect themselves and their young, they grieve their dead...so why is it okay to own them as property? Why is it okay to slaughter them for fancy?

You mean for food

If you can survive on things that aren't sentient, why wouldn't you?

Because I enjoy meat, and being at the top of the food chain has its advantages

Do you really care so little about the suffering of others?

I'm pretty sure that other animals also know that the prey they kill are sentient and have families etc. it's why you will see wolves or tigers try to separate a baby from the pack and go after it. They know a mother would protect her young.

 

[Wickerbasket]

I don't eat vegan to make a difference, I do it to be true to my personal beliefs.

I don't expect everyone to do the same, but I do expect to not be treated like I'm automatically a hyperaggressive asshole when I'm just quietly sitting here eating a salad.

I get that people don't like to be told they're doing something wrong, but the vilification of people who are by and large going out of their way to be moral and world-conscious seems entirely disproportionate.

Yeah I get that, I'm just saying that we all benefit from immortality, the only difference is where we draw the line. You draw the line at animals suffering, but don't care enough about the human suffering that went into making your electronics, clothes and nearly every modern product you own to stop using them, because it would be inconvenient to you.

You turn a blind eye to the suffering that went into making those products, just like I turn a blind eye to the suffering that went into making my food, because it would be inconvenient to me.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm pretty sure that other animals also know that the prey they kill are sentient and have families etc. it's why you will see wolves or tigers try to separate a baby from the pack and go after it. They know a mother would protect her young.

Ok, this one did it. Wow...

Thanks for the thread everyone, some lovely people in here.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

Can someone else deal with this one, please? I've run out of steam.

You are clearly defining the word hunt as go to whatever biome, kill animal, cook and then eat it. The vast majority of us include the mass breeding and slaughter of animals as the evolution of our hunter backgrounds. It's the most efficient way of hunting we have developed. You're not going to convince anyone to change their minds here.

 

[goldenpp72]

"It's okay to do something as long as the harm that results is beneath a certain threshold."

That's something that most people can agree with. The issue is where to draw the line. If an animal suffers and dies as a result of the action, that should be over the line, right? If the PS4 ran on kitten blood I'd definitely looking people playing video games.



From your point of view, being vegan and not being vegan is ethically agnostic. Neither is any better or worse than the other. But from a vegan point of view, eating meat is morally wrong. It's no different than anything else. Like, take the following:

- You do a bad thing.
- "Man, you're doing a bad thing."
- "You have no right to tell me that the thing I'm doing is bad."

You realize that in most contexts that's not really a valid moral defense, right?

Sure, just like people who believe masturbating leads you to hell, they may think it, it doesn't mean I care to hear it. Becoming a vegan should be a simple personal choice you adopt, not press on others. If you think i'm super evil for eating a fajita, then get out of my life, it's very simple.

The last thing I want to hear during my meal is a bleeding heart lecture on my meal. It doesn't make me feel bad or guilty, it makes me wish you would go away. I don't think piracy of software is moral either, but guess what, I don't go on a soap box for every person I meet who downloads a song illegally. I would rather the person in question define me as evil and go away, if you feel that way you're not desired in my life, so we both win. Super easy for all involved.

 

[Lagamorph]

Meat is too delicious to ever consider going Vegetarian/Vegan.

 

[gondwana]

well,it's the testimonial concept

if someone we consider good/cool/smart does something,we kind of want to do it too

if someone annoying,preachy or in any way kind of unpleasant do,we are less attracted by the option..or worse we don't take it seriously because we don't take seriously the guy that it's proposing it.

it's the difference between being taught religion by a creationist flat.-earther and by a simple guy that knows what is science and what is religion...starting from the same point,the latter will probably be more convincing if the listener was coming by an agnostic perspective...which is the closst thing i can think of to someone that could become a vegan, but it's not THAT interested.

 

[HariKari]

Animals are tasty. They know it too, because they eat each other, often in horrific and painful ways. So why should people have a moral obligation to sit on the sidelines?

Be conscious of where your food comes from and the impact it has on the environment, sure. But to stretch that out to the moral "no meat ever" argument is a pretty big jump for most people.

 

[Mael]

Can someone else deal with this one, please? I've run out of steam.

You think we engineered boars, oxes, goats and other why exactly?
It's much more reliable to farm animals than hunt them.
And we hunt them because they're an easy source of protein.
Not different from ants and aphid.
And we are not forced to choose between multinational corps engineered factory farms and no meat ever too.

 

[Majukun]

"It's okay to do something as long as the harm that results is beneath a certain threshold."

That's something that most people can agree with. The issue is where to draw the line. If an animal suffers and dies as a result of the action, that should be over the line, right? If the PS4 ran on kitten blood I'd definitely looking people playing video games.



From your point of view, being vegan and not being vegan is ethically agnostic. Neither is any better or worse than the other. But from a vegan point of view, eating meat is morally wrong. It's no different than anything else. Like, take the following:

- You do a bad thing.
- "Man, you're doing a bad thing."
- "You have no right to tell me that the thing I'm doing is bad."

You realize that in most contexts that's not really a valid moral defense, right?

and you do realize that unsolicited criticism it's not always welcome right?

the last answer you wrote it's actually true...you have no right to tell me what i'm doing is bad if i didn't ask for your opinion as long as what i'm doing isn't directly hurting you.

from your point of view militant catholics should be screaming from the street about people to convert because for them a sinful life is immoral and bad for humanity.

 

[Majukun]

what has that image to do with what i wrote?

 

[HiredN00bs]

Just because they lack a nervous system like most fauna doesn't mean they don't have similar experiences?

I would imagine that the presence of a nervous system might have some bearing on a living thing's depth of experience. Don't worry, I'm not coming to steal your steaks. You don't have to perform such feats of mental gymnastics for my sake.

But let's say I grant you the ridiculous and unevidenced notion that plants are conscious and experience pain; animals raised for slaughter eat plants, too. Therefore, ending animal slaughter would reduce the amount of plant suffering and animal suffering.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

"Book snobs are the worst! That's why I don't read."

 

[goldenpp72]

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

"Book snobs are the worst! That's why I don't read."

Some of us don't need an excuse, we simply don't care. Give me an identically nutritious and tasting option for a similar price and then we'll talk, until then, I'll keep eating meat unless it's going to kill me. I don't do it to offend or rebel, I do it because it's what I like doing.

 

[Zakalwe]

What's to say plants don't experience the same emotions? Just because they lack a nervous system like most fauna doesn't mean they don't have similar experiences? So what happens if thats proven? Do we stop eating all together?

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01...may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

One last thing:

Veganim is about the /reduction/ of suffering as much as possible, most of us are fully aware we can't stop contributing to suffering entirely.

 

[Mael]

I would imagine that the presence of a nervous system might have some bearing on a living thing's depth of experience. Don't worry, I'm not coming to steal your steaks. You don't have to perform such feats of mental gymnastics for my sake.

But let's say I grant you the ridiculous and unevidenced notion that plants are conscious and experience pain; animals raised for slaughter eat plants, too. Therefore, ending animal slaughter would reduce the amount of plant suffering and animal suffering.

The most ethical way in the end is to eat animals who understand that suffering is just a signal?

Some of us don't need an excuse, we simply don't care. Give me an identically nutritious and tasting option for a similar price and then we'll talk, until then, I'll keep eating meat unless it's going to kill me.

We don't even care about the suffering of other people in a foreign country, why the hell do you expect people to care about animal raised for slaughter anyway?
And when I mean we, I mean we as a species.

 

[gondwana]

what has that image to do with what i wrote?

pointing out the absurdity of this line of thinking

the people that don't go vegan solely and explicitly because of pushy vegans are often just "muh bacon" types that are post hoc rationalizing. nobody that is intellectually honest and open would come to such a conclusion

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Some of us don't need an excuse, we simply don't care. Give me an identically nutritious and tasting option for a similar price and then we'll talk, until then, I'll keep eating meat unless it's going to kill me.

It is slowly killing you. There many documentaries and peer reviewed articles highly suggesting this including WHO classifying the processed meats as carcinogenic

Or just watch What the Health. Pay attention to the doctors and not quite the sensationalism of Kip

 

[sensui-tomo]

I've been lucky never having to deal with a aggressive vegetarian, my sister doesn't eat most meat and generally cheats by only eating fish, hell the worst I was ever inconvenienced was when I found out my cousin was a vegan, so I made pasta with soy crumbles(like ground round) instead of meat... Found out it tasted the same. Only time I don't use it is when I have ground venison, because fuck is that the good stuff.

 

[jph139]

Sure, just like people who believe masturbating leads you to hell, they may think it, it doesn't mean I care to hear it. Becoming a vegan should be a simple personal choice you adopt, not press on others. If you think i'm super evil for eating a fajita, then get out of my life, it's super simple.

The last thing I want to hear during my meal is a bleeding heart lecture on my meal. It doesn't make me feel bad or guilty, it makes me wish you would go away. I don't think piracy of software is moral either, but guess what, I don't go on a soap box for every person I meet who downloads a song illegally.

Would you apply that to every action?

Like, if I know someone is going to pirate a movie, and I get up in their face about it - I'm a dick, the harm done is super minor. If I know someone is going to murder their family, and I don't try to stop them - I'm a bad person. I'm assuming you would agree with that?

Eating meat is somewhere on that spectrum. You're just drawing the line in a different place.

and you do realize that unsolicited criticism it's not always welcome right?

the last answer you wrote it's actually true...you have no right to tell me what i'm doing is bad if i didn't ask for your opinion as long as what i'm doing isn't directly hurting you.

from your point of view militant catholics should be screaming from the street about people to convert because for them a sinful life is immoral and bad for humanity.

But what if it's directly harming a third party? Again, if you know I'm going to going to go do harm to a person, aren't you morally obligated to stop me from doing so? Or at least, try to convince me not to?

 

[GrooveCommand]

Some of us don't need an excuse, we simply don't care. Give me an identically nutritious and tasting option for a similar price and then we'll talk, until then, I'll keep eating meat unless it's going to kill me. I don't do it to offend or rebel, I do it because it's what I like doing.

Ask and ye shall receive: http://www.businessinsider.com/hampton-creek-lab-grown-meat-2017-6

 

[Majukun]

pointing out the absurdity of this line of thinking

the people that don't go vegan solely and explicitly because of pushy vegans are often just "muh bacon" types that are post hoc rationalizing. nobody that is intellectually honest and open would come to such a conclusion

nobody said that they don't go vegan EXCLUSIVELY for that, it's about perception,but good try.

 

[Liljagare]

Depends on what your reason is, but, Soya and most all nuts, and mushrooms, are just as bad for the world to grow, as most meats.

 

[Servbot24]

Yeah I get that, I'm just saying that we all benefit from immortality, the only difference is where we draw the line. You draw the line at animals suffering, but don't care enough about the human suffering that went into making your electronics, clothes and nearly every modern product you own to stop using them, because it would be inconvenient to you.

You turn a blind eye to the suffering that went into making those products, just like I turn a blind eye to the suffering that went into making my food, because it would be inconvenient to me.

You can't condemn someone for not addressing all the world's issues. I don't walk up to you and say "Yeah well you didn't feed starving children in Africa" anytime that you try to do a good deed.

And that's true, I do turn a blind eye to some things. I own an iPhone, and I know someone probably had a miserable time making it. The reality is that bearing all potential inconveniences at once isn't reasonable, and isn't asked of us. There's nothing wrong with choosing the ones that resonate with you. Some people care more about human rights, so they'll find ways to stand up for better working conditions, and I'll give them respect for that instead of trying to invalidate them because they didn't also take measures against climate change. For me climate change happens to resonate, so I eat vegan and ride my bike to work instead of driving.

 

[UserNotFound]

I am not a vegan but I also don't begrudge those who are. The only real interest I had in a vegan diet was the supposed science that sex was better for those with vegan diets. Even then, it will take a lot more than great sex to get me to part with meat eating.

Besides that? This sounds like one of those things people on the Internet exaggerate that isn't necessarily as close to read life as claimed.

Yes, you have to make accommodations for a vegan. Woe is you.
Just ask them to bring a dish then if that's the case...

 

[PdotMichael]

It's remarkable how evolutionary biology often gets brought up in topics about veganism and how often it gets completely misapplied (by both sides of the argument).




This is just comically wrong. What a load of horseshit.

All the facts! Are you maybe a vegan? Humanity pretty much just recently exceeded the life expections of our mainly animal hunting ancestors.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

I would imagine that the presence of a nervous system might have some bearing on a living thing's depth of experience. Don't worry, I'm not coming to steal your steaks. You don't have to perform such feats of mental gymnastics for my sake.

But let's say I grant you the ridiculous and unevidenced notion that plants are conscious and experience pain; animals raised for slaughter eat plants, too. Therefore, ending animal slaughter would reduce the amount of plant suffering and animal suffering.

Doesn't answer the hypothetical, if we all stop eating animals because they are suffering and then it's proven that plants suffer as well what do we do? Did you even read the article I linked? This isn't mental gymnastics at all I'm asking how far you are willing to go to nourish yourself without causing harm to something.

And like you'd be able to take my steaks anyway I have the benefit of protein son! Can't build muscles with rabbit food!

 

[Airola]

My vegan friend is on FB right now saying definitively that Jesus did not fish and probably did not eat meat. He's not a religious scholar and all he really knows about Christianity is based off googling.

BIBLE TIME!

Romans 14:1-9

1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.
2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.
4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

While the beginning of this is a bit condescending towards the vegetarians by claiming people who eat only vegetables are weak in faith, I think this nicely pretty much sums up that "shut up, both of you" what comes to religious people giving others lectures on what they can and can't eat

 

[goldenpp72]

Would you apply that to every action?

Like, if I know someone is going to pirate a movie, and I get up in their face about it - I'm a dick, the harm done is super minor. If I know someone is going to murder their family, and I don't try to stop them - I'm a bad person. I'm assuming you would agree with that?

Eating meat is somewhere on that spectrum. You're just drawing the line in a different place.



But what if it's directly harming a third party? Again, if you know I'm going to going to go do harm to a person, aren't you morally obligated to stop me from doing so? Or at least, try to convince me not to?

If someone is going to murder their family, call the police. We as a society have come to agree that in general, the murder of another person is bad enough to warrant interference, while the majority of us do not see an issue with eating meat, and do not care to hear the opinions of the few who have issues with it. People use devices made under horrible conditions that cause suffering too, yet few would agree that screaming at a person using an iphone is acceptable.

The reality of our world is that if you're not on top, you're below someone, and no one wants to be there on purpose even if we would rather everything be perfect for all. It's a nice sentiment that is not currently possible, so make the best of it and try to enjoy yourself for the little time you get to be alive. I eat meat, own a smartphone and play videogames that often force excessive crunch time for the makers, I'm not going to change how I enjoy my life everytime someone finds out there is something not good about it, otherwise i'll end up having nothing left.

 

[jph139]

Doesn't answer the hypothetical, if we all stop eating animals because they are suffering and then it's proven that plants suffer as well what do we do? Did you even read the article I linked? This isn't mental gymnastics at all I'm asking how far you are willing to go to nourish yourself without causing harm to something.

That argument doesn't make sense, because... animals eat plants, too.

Eating a steak = harm to cow + harm to all the plants that cow ate
Eating a salad = harm to all the plants

That's a whole cow less of suffering! The math doesn't lie.

 

[Dali]

There was some jackhole in a thread about a vegan mayonnaise called just mayo. I went out and bought spme and it was pretty good, but I told whoever that assclown was (I can't remember their username) that their attitude in that thread made me want to stick with egg based mayo.

 

[gondwana]

Doesn't answer the hypothetical, if we all stop eating animals because they are suffering and then it's proven that plants suffer as well what do we do? Did you even read the article I linked? This isn't mental gymnastics at all I'm asking how far you are willing to go to nourish yourself without causing harm to something.

And like you'd be able to take my steaks anyway I have the benefit of protein son! Can't build muscles with rabbit food!

even if plants had the same capacity of suffering as animals, a vegan consumes less of them as well.

you know you have to feed animals plants, right?

 

[RocknRola]

Wait......................................what?

I have questions >.>


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I don't mind vegans to be honest. I'm sure they're some nasty ones out there, just like there are nasty "meat eaters" out there, but my experiences have been pleasant. Don't think I'll turn vegan anytime soon, but I have zero problems with them.

 

[GulAtiCa]

Really just depends on the person. Sure, some Vegans are pricks / assholes, but that's not because they are a vegan, it's cause they are naturally an asshole. Completely unrelated. Just "Veganism" just so happens to be their "me or nothing" topic.

One of my good friends as well as a few others I hanged out were really chill and never cared if I or others ate meat or anything related. As long as they could go out to a restaurant that had some kind of vegan-friendly meals, they be very happy.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Ask and ye shall receive: http://www.businessinsider.com/hampton-creek-lab-grown-meat-2017-6

Okay so as a meat eater, I'd try this. I'd give it a chance.

I wonder how many vegans would try it. Given the many reasons for becoming a vegan, I'm sure a lot of them wouldn't.

But man, this shit will be indistinguishable from real meat one day.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

Two things:

1. No, we won't.

2. I always find it hard to believe when a person claims every vegan they know is this way, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as it's bound to happen to some people.



More harmful than livestock?

I have nothing against people being vegan in and out of itself, I have a problem with the expansionist ideology, supported by pseudoscience. No mainstream environmentalist promotes a full vegan diet for the world's population because it's absurd. There is a component of the trofic chain with a baggage of hundreds of millions of years of evolution devoted to the efficient production of animal protein. The reason we always relied on that component is testament to its efficiency.
So, those are metabolic processes that we need to reduce the environmental impact. We either use livestock or we recreate it in a lab, which I'm all for. But plants won't cut it, not at a large scale.

I'm for a reduction in meat consumption, which has gone beyond what's healthy in all developed countries, and for more fish consumption through sustainable breeding. (There are interesting things going on with fish farming right now) I'm also a proponent of artificially growing animal products. But not veganism as a solution for the world's food problems.