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[JDSN]

I do think blankempathy is getting his point across just right, its a bit weird that he brought up his female friends but I reckon is because while there these issues are real and deserve our discussion some people are just waiting to point finger at someone, and he might have gotten defensive.

Forgive me for not fawning over... What exactly is she again?

I mean, ohhh, stop the presses... Aisha Tyler got something to say. Who gives a rat's ass.

Aisha mother effin' Tyler. Raise your scope people, expand your horizons beyond People magazine. SMH.

I hope you didnt wait too much to get that account approved on Neogaf.

 

[Abounder]

The thing I find fascinating about it is, it’s a marginalized culture of gamers, and the associated culture of nerds, a group of people who’ve been ostracized and excluded. And now they’re really busy trying to exclude other people. It’s like, “I was hazed. And now I’m going to haze.”

This is actually a really interesting response.

I agree. For gamers you can see it with the vocal minority's negative reaction to shooters and "dudebros". Nerd culture in general you can see how bronies are basically bullied online as well. Interesting stuff.

 

[hiex_]

Aisha sounds pretty cool. The whole situation is pretty unfortunate, but at least it's being discussed frequently. Hopefully we're heading towards some sort of turning point.

 

[mechphree]

"Some", yes.

Majority? No.

Play something like CoD where social interaction amounts to little more than bragging and trash talk, and it might appear that it's rife. I'd argue that most of that stuff is just thoughtless and not intended, and born of frustration for the moment rather than malice toward a particular minority, the fact it perpetuates is a issue of course (and I'm not condoning it in any way) but we're discussing intent here. Do these people really have an issue with minorities? I know I don't, and I trash talked like a moron at times in my teenage years while playing with friends (all colours and shapes, my world is a beautiful rainbow).

Play an Mmo where social interactions matter more, and the majority of people are incredibly friendly and welcoming. Every single guild I've ever been a part of has been made up of what I'd consider decent people with only a few obvious bad eggs here and there.

I don't know, call me an optimist, nothing she said felt particularly astute to me. I agree with her, I guess I just assumed that most of is felt this way, and that the intelligent people who make up the brunt of the industry have a decent amount of like minded souls amongst them, too.

I think the representation of minorities in games is much more residual and neglect than it is intended, and while that's bad it's getting better. The whole world is playing catch-up here.



Again, a few bad eggs, IMO. Relatively speaking, of course.

Emm...

We are talking about COD here? The same game (along with gears of war) where I would get random people yelling racist remarks like the N word to me just because I happen to be in the game or on their team. You can't tell me it's just "trash talk" when you scream racial slurs.

Getting back to OP, Aisha is right about the sub culture (nerds, gamers) sometimes not being acceptable of other groups (females yes but minorities more often not so much ). Diversity in terms of gender is getting a tiny bit better and I say that being optimistic but over all it's still really bad for minorities. Yea this woman might be over sexualized in one game but at least she's in it. Other times the minority isn't even included.

 

[arglebargle]

One of the two leads in an Archer game that is as elaborate as Stick of Truth.

Also made by obsidian? That would be the best game.

 

[Replicant]

Personality or not like I said her hosting style isn't for me. I'm nearly 30 I dont find weed references funny sorry. And yea I said she tries too hard. Guess thats my opinion huh? Like I said before if it were a guy on stage making jokes about weed and boners I'd be annoyed too. You know its funny. People want to support minorities and women in gaming and think they should be more represented which I agree with. Then at the same time some of those same people want to make everything about that too including against people who might have a negative opinion against a minority or female. You know I shouldn't have brought up my female friends but im sorry certain types of people I just find annoying including "grrl gamers". Not saying that Aisha is one of those types though. Anyways I'm criticizing Aisha the e3 host. Not Aisha the person. When you do something public expect critisim just like I expect getting critiszed on this forum if I post something I dont like. At the same time im not harassing her on twitter saying she sucks etc. Merely making a comment on a forum board.

Why are you turning it into all about you and how poor you are for being slighted? I'm sorry but I don't buy your claim about how this is about her on-stage performance when you brought up the good old "Why can't women (or minorities) be like my friends who don't make big deal about things?", which is a classic way to deny women and minorities the right to complain and make it all about the person who objected to it instead, which is in this case, you. And for you to be ready to go against women and minorities just because you got slighted makes me wonder if your motive was even genuine in the first place.

 

[daffy]

Absolutely true.

I would extend this to the portrayal of women in games as well. To me, it really appears that they are operating on a level of, "I've never had a woman of my own, so I'll just hypersexualize and objectify them as much as possible." Every woman does not need to have giant breasts and cleavage hanging out in battle.

For every Samus we have 5-10 Harley Quinn/Felicia/female MGSV assassins.

I feel that you have been somewhat misled into thinking that singletaries are the only people that objectify the opposite sex. You are mistaken. On top of that your comparison between "the bully cycle" and some sort of non sex::sexualization cycle is odd and dare I say completely unrelated to each other.

 

[blankempathy]

Why are you turning it into all about you and how poor you are for being slighted? I'm sorry but I don't buy your claim about how this is about her on-stage performance when you brought up the good old "Why can't women (or minorities) be like my friends who don't make big deal about things?", which is a classic way to deny women and minorities the right to complain and make it all about the person who objected to it instead, which is in this case, you. And for you to be ready to go against women and minorities just because you got slighted makes me wonder if your motive was even genuine in the first place.

You can believe what you want I really dont care anymore. I said my piece. Yep im so against minorities. You got me. A self hating minority. I'm done with this conversation.

 

[HolyBaikal]

So it's like revenge. :/

I don't understand how two wrongs make a right and why so many people feel this way.

 

[jonezer4]

Is she really going to bring in Gears of War as a positive example of diversity? The black characters in that franchise are black stereotypes incarnate.

True, but it's not like the white characters are brimming with nuances or originality.

The same argument could be used as a rebuttal for people that feel women are physically exaggerated in games. There are plenty of dudes with 20 inch biceps in those same games. I'm not saying it's right, or that the hyper-sexualization isn't more prevalent in female characters, simply that these issues are not exactly isolated to minorities, females, etc.

 

[ArjanN]

Emm...

We are talking about COD here? The same game (along with gears of war) where I would get random people yelling racist remarks like the N word to me just because I happen to be in the game or on their team. You can't tell me it's just "trash talk" when you scream racial slurs.

Eh, not that I'm excusing it, but everyone gets yelled racial homophobic shit at on COD, it's clearly 99% raging 15-year olds just throwing any offensive word they know out there.

 

[JDSN]

Eh, not that I'm excusing it, but everyone gets yelled racial homophobic shit at on COD, it's clearly 99% raging 15-year olds just throwing any offensive word they know out there.

And they choose the one that insults people based on their color of the skin, that is what in academia people refer to as "racism".

 

[FrIeDGoAt]

I don't think gaming is an exclusive club, but I also don't shove mobile and facebook gaming in with mainstream gaming.

48% of women do not play console games, that statistic is wrong.

If your going to campaign about getting games changed, at least get the statistics right.

This is not mean't to be sexist or anything, It's like telling people you like literature when you read through Garfield.

 

[Trent Strong]

I don't want to be an asshole here, but Aisha was a guest host on the Adam Carrolla podcast a while back and she talked about video games for a few minutes and made some odd comments that someone who was really into games wouldn't make. I can't remember that much of what she said, but she was calling Call of Duty Ghosts "Splinter Cell Ghosts", and stuff like that. It was just weird.

 

[SliceSabre]

Hmm, well now I have a much different opinion of her. I was absolutely sure she was nothing but another shill paid to call themselves a gamer and try to appeal to us.

 

[Vermillion]

I don't want to be an asshole here, but Aisha was a guest host on the Adam Carrolla podcast a while back and she talked about video games for a few minutes and made some odd comments that someone who was really into games wouldn't make. I can't remember that much of what she said, but she was calling Call of Duty Ghosts "Splinter Cell Ghosts", and stuff like that. It was just weird.

She works for Ubi as a host.

They make Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon and everything can mash together at times.

 

[Newline]

I don't want to be an asshole here, but Aisha was a guest host on the Adam Carrolla podcast a while back and she talked about video games for a few minutes and made some odd comments that someone who was really into games wouldn't make. I can't remember that much of what she said, but she was calling Call of Duty Ghosts "Splinter Cell Ghosts", and stuff like that. It was just weird.

Go and read the AMA she did here and you'll soon realise she thoroughly critiques all of her favourite FPS' more than many GAFers can. She ain't faking a thing.

 

[Infinite]

I don't want to be an asshole here, but Aisha was a guest host on the Adam Carrolla podcast a while back and she talked about video games for a few minutes and made some odd comments that someone who was really into games wouldn't make. I can't remember that much of what she said, but she was calling Call of Duty Ghosts "Splinter Cell Ghosts", and stuff like that. It was just weird.

She most certainly was joking.

 

[valeo]

What about folks who don't want transgender and homosexual characters in there games? Do they have choice to speak and say there peace or they should just accept and go with the flow?

Sorry, the world is moving forward without bigots.

 

[Trent Strong]

Go and read the AMA she did here and you'll soon realise she thoroughly critiques all of her favourite FPS' more than many GAFers can. She ain't faking a thing.

I'm not saying she's faking it. Her video game talk was just strange. Maybe she was just wasn't her usual self because she was stressed about having to host a strange podcast with people that she doesn't really know.

She most certainly was joking.

No. She wasn't joking.

 

[Eusis]

You can definitely make dumb mistakes in the heat of the moment, many of us probably screwed game names when replying to posts quickly or whatever.

 

[Ikael]

The thing I find fascinating about it is, it’s a marginalized culture of gamers, and the associated culture of nerds, a group of people who’ve been ostracized and excluded. And now they’re really busy trying to exclude other people. It’s like, “I was hazed. And now I’m going to haze.”

It always happen with marginalized groups in real life too, this is far from being a nerd culture thing only. This is unfortunately a a very extended social attitude.

Whenever a group of people is persecuted for enough time, it tends to have a far more suspicious attitude and negative view of "the external world" because they have been forcefully drawn into a dynamic of "endogroup VS exogroup".

 

[Infinite]

I'm not saying she's faking it. Her video game talk was just strange. Maybe she was just wasn't her usual self because she was stressed about having to host a strange podcast with people that she doesn't really know.




No. She wasn't joking.

I assumed she was joking since she's a comedian and that's what she does. It doesn't matter either way.

 

[SonnyBoy]

Nice article.

I'd like to see the same level off artistic effort put into the physical traits of minorities for player creation systems.

 

[Dictator93]

I think there is a fine line regarding some issues of gender/sexual orientation in games.

Arguments against adding optional/playable characters and art assets are as follows (my summation from my view):

1. Double the work (current ubisoft argument), completely justifiable if your studio is small. For Ubisoft? Meh...

2. Does not fit main character theming. 100% justifiable. I could argue quite well why Hamlet is usually portrayed as a heterosexual male, and if you use this excuse, you better do it for your character.

3. Does not sell as well, due to console AAA gaming be heterosexual male dominated. Not justifiable, but not surprising.

------------------------------------------------------

At the end of all of this, I would just like to say how we are perhaps having to much expectations for what are essentially "mass-entertainment" producing businesses. Businesses work on profit models and are not by law compelled to include socially aware, social justice, etc... messages and images in their creation. Especially not in the U.S., the main market for these things. In fact, those things probably cut into their profit margins due to how conservative and biggoted their main market is.

THat is obviously not justified from any enlightened perspective. But I have no fantasies of thinking that these large game devs and pubs are anything but money grabbing businesses. If you look at their hiring, firing, and advertising models... this is obvious to see.

If you want to change this behavior, you have to simultaneuously change their conceptions of profit making, and their consumer base's cultural understandings.

Either that, or buy indie because the profit/production structure of AAA gaming is unethical in the first place.

 

[Conflict NZ]

The main playable character in Telltale's main series is a bi-racial 12 year old girl who is more competent that most of the adults that show up in the game. I wouldn't say they need to take a step.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

She makes some very good points, but on the other hand she didn't like New Vegas. I'm conflicted.

What about folks who don't want transgender and homosexual characters in there games? Do they have choice to speak and say there peace or they should just accept and go with the flow?

They can say their peace and then be rightly marginalised and mocked for it, everybody wins!

 

[IISANDERII]

I don't want to be an asshole here, but Aisha was a guest host on the Adam Carrolla podcast a while back and she talked about video games for a few minutes and made some odd comments that someone who was really into games wouldn't make. I can't remember that much of what she said, but she was calling Call of Duty Ghosts "Splinter Cell Ghosts", and stuff like that. It was just weird.

So she's not into every genre and isn't frequenting the Neogaf gaming section. Could be many reasons while still being a gamer.

As for me, I don't think she has to be a gamer at all and still has all rights to be on that stage. I was pleasantly surprised to see her back, glad Ubisoft hasn't backed down from the haters.

 

[SonnyBoy]

I consider myself a gamer and would totally screw up specifics certain genres if asked on the spot.

 

[eso76]

She sounds like a very intelligent person, but i disagree with her explanation that emarginated people tend to emarginate. That might be true, but it's not what's happening here.

I was also doubtful she could really be a gamer, that has nothing to do with me wanting to exclude other people, more with the fact that in our experience, very few women are interested in AAA games, and using women to sell products aimed at men is as old as marketing. Ubisoft, of all companies, knows that very well.

And she's a good looking woman, which is even more suspicious.

I don't know if you guys were around a couple decades ago, but back then you would have a hard time believing a cool, good looking GUY could be a gamer.
Games back then required a dedication that 'social people' simply didn't have.
It took years to turn videogames from 'nerdy' to 'cool' and videogames themselves had to change quite a lot

They will grow to appeal to women, but the process needs time.

But the approach people suggest is wrong.
Including a female lead in COD is not going to solve the problem, that's not the point at all.
Killing, shooting stuff, beating, racing. The 'fun engine' in these games is mostly fueled by typically, biologically male instincts.

The problem is not the industry isn't including female leads, the problem is the industry can't (doesnt want to) come up with fun 'mechanisms' that would appeal to women.
Which, however, is understandable from a business perspective. Even in nature, playing games is mostly a thing for young males, it only makes sense that they would aim at the largest group.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

She sounds like a very intelligent person, but i disagree with her explanation that emarginated people tend to emarginate. That might be true, but it's not what's happening here.

I was also doubtful she could really be a gamer, that has nothing to do with me wanting to exclude other people, more with the fact that in our experience, very few women are interested in AAA games, and using women to sell products aimed at men is as old as marketing. Ubisoft, of all companies, knows that very well.

And she's a good looking woman, which is even more suspicious.

I don't know if you guys were around a couple decades ago, but back then you would have a hard time believing a cool, good looking GUY could be a gamer.
Games back then required a dedication that 'social people' simply didn't have.
It took years to turn videogames from 'nerdy' to 'cool' and videogames themselves had to change quite a lot

They will grow to appeal to women, but the process needs time.

But the approach people suggest is wrong.
Including a female lead in COD is not going to solve the problem, that's not the point at all.
Killing, shooting stuff, beating, racing. The 'fun engine' in these games is mostly fueled by typically, biologically male instincts.

The problem is not the industry isn't including female leads, the problem is the industry can't (doesnt want to) come up with fun 'mechanisms' that would appeal to women.
Which, however, is understandable from a business perspective. Even in nature, playing games is mostly a thing for young males, it only makes sense that they would aim at the largest group.

Why can't men and women enjoy the same gameplay? You're basically saying we need to segregate games into mens and women's games, how dumb.

 

[Genio88]

Great interview, i like this woman

 

[jim-jam bongs]

She sounds like a very intelligent person, but i disagree with her explanation that emarginated people tend to emarginate. That might be true, but it's not what's happening here.

I was also doubtful she could really be a gamer, that has nothing to do with me wanting to exclude other people, more with the fact that in our experience, very few women are interested in AAA games, and using women to sell products aimed at men is as old as marketing. Ubisoft, of all companies, knows that very well.

And she's a good looking woman, which is even more suspicious.

I don't know if you guys were around a couple decades ago, but back then you would have a hard time believing a cool, good looking GUY could be a gamer.
Games back then required a dedication that 'social people' simply didn't have.
It took years to turn videogames from 'nerdy' to 'cool' and videogames themselves had to change quite a lot

They will grow to appeal to women, but the process needs time.

But the approach people suggest is wrong.
Including a female lead in COD is not going to solve the problem, that's not the point at all.
Killing, shooting stuff, beating, racing. The 'fun engine' in these games is mostly fueled by typically, biologically male instincts.

The problem is not the industry isn't including female leads, the problem is the industry can't (doesnt want to) come up with fun 'mechanisms' that would appeal to women.
Which, however, is understandable from a business perspective. Even in nature, playing games is mostly a thing for young males, it only makes sense that they would aim at the largest group.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

The thing I find fascinating about it is, it’s a marginalized culture of gamers, and the associated culture of nerds, a group of people who’ve been ostracized and excluded. And now they’re really busy trying to exclude other people. It’s like, “I was hazed. And now I’m going to haze.”


This is absolutely true. It's like certain gamers grow up with people saying the whole "haha look at you, your a basement crawling nerd" and they just take it, and stay in the once small gaming community. But now Gaming is HUGE, they feel like they are being invaded by a new community that was once the same types of people who were mocking them.

That was worded quite badly but I see this a lot. I'm open to more people playing games. I just hope it doesn't affect the quality of the games that are being produced. Which sadly it is with COD and the likes. And to talk about female gamers. I see a lot of them now (I'm 23) and they all seem to start off by playing Call of Duty Online and that's it. And call themselves a gamer to try and get attention from lads. Now that Gaming is so huge they feel like they want to be a part of it to get attention. That's what rubs me the wrong way. But this is just a small percentage. I know plenty of hardcore gamer chicks

 

[chubigans]

She sounds like a very intelligent person, but i disagree with her explanation that emarginated people tend to emarginate. That might be true, but it's not what's happening here.

I was also doubtful she could really be a gamer, that has nothing to do with me wanting to exclude other people, more with the fact that in our experience, very few women are interested in AAA games, and using women to sell products aimed at men is as old as marketing. Ubisoft, of all companies, knows that very well.

And she's a good looking woman, which is even more suspicious.

I don't know if you guys were around a couple decades ago, but back then you would have a hard time believing a cool, good looking GUY could be a gamer.
Games back then required a dedication that 'social people' simply didn't have.
It took years to turn videogames from 'nerdy' to 'cool' and videogames themselves had to change quite a lot

They will grow to appeal to women, but the process needs time.

But the approach people suggest is wrong.
Including a female lead in COD is not going to solve the problem, that's not the point at all.
Killing, shooting stuff, beating, racing. The 'fun engine' in these games is mostly fueled by typically, biologically male instincts.

The problem is not the industry isn't including female leads, the problem is the industry can't (doesnt want to) come up with fun 'mechanisms' that would appeal to women.
Which, however, is understandable from a business perspective. Even in nature, playing games is mostly a thing for young males, it only makes sense that they would aim at the largest group.

I really, really hope this is just a great troll post and we've all been had. Because, yeesh.

 

[eso76]

Why can't men and women enjoy the same gameplay? You're basically saying we need to segregate games into mens and women's games, how dumb.

Typically, men and women don't enjoy the same things. What's dumb is pretending this isn't true.

Females are typically less interested in playing games in general. This is true in nature also. And are typically less interested in killing, shooting, racing etc for biological or anthropological reasons.

Men have different instincts, and the 'fun' to be had in most games appeals to typically male instincts.

Have you guys ever stopped and wondered why the concept of 'fun' in videogames is almost always related to killing, beating, or otherwise proving stronger than the enemy ?
That has a lot to do with human MALE nature.

It's very easy, really



Games should broaden their audience not (just) by including female or selectable gender leads (because yeah, some girl might like playing cod) but also broadening their idea of fun which currently is very narrow. A lot narrower than it used to.

 

[dwells]

They don’t want to play the same kind of character over and over again.

Don't they, though? Sales figures seem to indicate that a lot of people don't mind playing characters similar to what we've already seen. Titles that go out there and try to do something different typically sell less.

 

[Dead Man]

What about folks who don't want transgender and homosexual characters in there games? Do they have choice to speak and say there peace or they should just accept and go with the flow?

Go play games that don't have them? People can be homphobic and transphobic while playing any number of games which won't challenge their ignorance.

 

[ArjanN]

And they choose the one that insults people based on their color of the skin, that is what in academia people refer to as "racism".

Sure, but my point is that's it's nerdraging prepubescants that will just yell whatever gets a rise out of people behind the anonymity/distance of the internet.

 

[Jado]

I don't want to be an asshole here, but Aisha was a guest host on the Adam Carrolla podcast a while back and she talked about video games for a few minutes and made some odd comments that someone who was really into games wouldn't make. I can't remember that much of what she said, but she was calling Call of Duty Ghosts "Splinter Cell Ghosts", and stuff like that. It was just weird.

Who hasn't done something like that? I just figured out how to pronounce "Ys" and I've certainly had game titles mixed up in the past. In this example, it seems like deadpan humor and backhanded remark comparing EA's product (CoD: Ghosts) to Ubi's games.

Sure, but my point is that's it's nerdraging prepubescants that will just yell whatever gets a rise out of people behind the anonymity/distance of the internet.

Not true. You're diminishing the severity of the problem. Every time a minority or woman is even slightly critical, a flood of slurs and death threats come flying in from older teens AND adults. It's sexist, it's racist and it's definitely not harmless "nerd raging." A normal person doesn't start calling a stranger a nigger or faggot because he lost in a game. I suck at online games and never resorted to this. If you resort to attacking someone's gender, sexual orientation or nationality/ethnicity/skin color, then you have serious problems that need addressing beyond getting miffed in a video game.

Don't they, though? Sales figures seem to indicate that a lot of people don't mind playing characters similar to what we've already seen. Titles that go out there and try to do something different typically sell less.

Can you give a comprehensive list of AAA, big budget titles with different-from-the-norm characters that did not perform well?

I don't think gaming is an exclusive club, but I also don't shove mobile and facebook gaming in with mainstream gaming.
48% of women do not play console games, that statistic is wrong.
If your going to campaign about getting games changed, at least get the statistics right.
This is not mean't to be sexist or anything, It's like telling people you like literature when you read through Garfield.

I'm open to more people playing games. I just hope it doesn't affect the quality of the games that are being produced. Which sadly it is with COD and the likes. And to talk about female gamers. I see a lot of them now (I'm 23) and they all seem to start off by playing Call of Duty Online and that's it. And call themselves a gamer to try and get attention from lads. Now that Gaming is so huge they feel like they want to be a part of it to get attention. That's what rubs me the wrong way. But this is just a small percentage. I know plenty of hardcore gamer chicks

By her own admission in today's GAF Q&A she only cares about shooters and occasional action RPGs. I don't think less of her because she's a woman gamer, I think less of her because she has a very narrow field of interest when it comes to gaming

But in all honesty, to each their own. She's quite talented, very intelligent, and I'm all for people putting gaming in a positive light. So kudos to her ^-^

You do know that this article is about people like the three of you with this exclusionary mindset? A lot of people started off gaming with early consoles, handheld puzzle games, casual computer games and arcade titles like Pac-Man and DK that weren't any more complex than today's mobile games -- many women included. It's harmful and unnecessary to walk around with this mentality that artificially states "you're not a real gamer until you play these specific types of games I personally deem acceptable and hardcore enough."

Sodding_Gamer, how do you know they're doing it for attention, or more importantly, why the hell does anyone care? It's enough they're playing any game, having fun and motivated to continue playing games for whatever reason that's enough for them. A lot of guys also play only COD or similar shooters... why do you feel the need to point out when women do it as something inherently wrong or some sort of cry for attention? I think you're projecting your own insecurities about why they got into gaming.

No one suggested that the 48% of gamers who are women are playing on consoles. And frankly it doesn't matter if they're not.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Whelp, Jado basically summed up what I was going to say and who I was going to call out.

 

[djtiesto]

Can you give a comprehensive list of AAA, big budget titles with different-from-the-norm characters that did not perform well?

Mirror's Edge is the first to come to mind. Maybe Starhawk (was that a big budget game)? And also Nintendo mascot franchises... But most AAA big budget games aren't really paragons of diverse lead characters.

 

[HolyBaikal]

eso76, your post really bothers me.

And this is why I really don't like evolutionary psychology and stuff like that.
It upsets me.

 

[akira28]

I'm not saying she's faking it. Her video game talk was just strange. Maybe she was just wasn't her usual self because she was stressed about having to host a strange podcast with people that she doesn't really know.




No. She wasn't joking.

maybe she was mocking them for mimicking Splinter Cell?

 

[Lime]

eso76, your post really bothers me.

And this is why I really don't like evolutionary psychology and stuff like that.
It upsets me.

Needless to say, biological determinism is faulty and fallacious. I have no idea why people still subscribe to such a view on people in 2014.

 

[Jado]

Mirror's Edge is the first to come to mind. Maybe Starhawk (was that a big budget game)? And also Nintendo mascot franchises... But most AAA big budget games aren't really paragons of diverse lead characters.

That was my point. There's no extensive list of evidence that anything he said is true. What we have instead are publishers not wanting to take risks and people erroneously using that as proof that it's tried and tested that a non-white/male/hetero main character can't sell. You take the scant few titles like Mirror's Edge and Beyond Good & Evil and there are other factors at play. It can't be something as simple as race/gender, because then we have to admit "white male" doesn't sell either when we look at all the games starring them that do disappointing/mediocre numbers.

 

[someday]

She sounds like a very intelligent person, but i disagree with her explanation that emarginated people tend to emarginate. That might be true, but it's not what's happening here.

I was also doubtful she could really be a gamer, that has nothing to do with me wanting to exclude other people, more with the fact that in our experience, very few women are interested in AAA games, and using women to sell products aimed at men is as old as marketing. Ubisoft, of all companies, knows that very well.

And she's a good looking woman, which is even more suspicious.

I don't know if you guys were around a couple decades ago, but back then you would have a hard time believing a cool, good looking GUY could be a gamer.
Games back then required a dedication that 'social people' simply didn't have.
It took years to turn videogames from 'nerdy' to 'cool' and videogames themselves had to change quite a lot

They will grow to appeal to women, but the process needs time.

But the approach people suggest is wrong.
Including a female lead in COD is not going to solve the problem, that's not the point at all.
Killing, shooting stuff, beating, racing. The 'fun engine' in these games is mostly fueled by typically, biologically male instincts.

The problem is not the industry isn't including female leads, the problem is the industry can't (doesnt want to) come up with fun 'mechanisms' that would appeal to women.
Which, however, is understandable from a business perspective. Even in nature, playing games is mostly a thing for young males, it only makes sense that they would aim at the largest group.

This is all ridiculous. I'm a 43 year old black woman and I LOVE shooters. These blanket statements about what "women" like are simply ignorant.

 

[Sianos]

Needless to say, biological determinism is faulty and fallacious. I have no idea why people still subscribe to such a view on people in 2014.

Because reductionism is easy to understand and theoretically makes the actions and emotions of people easy to predict.

In reality, people are much more complex than biological determinism suggests and most strongly motivated by social and environmental factors and people are salient and capable of development and change.

As someone who works as a Taekwondo coach I can attest to the fact that there are many women who enjoy fighting and violently striking other people, and more power to them for that! Determinists are confused in that people fall into gender roles not because they are biologically predisposed to but rather because since achild they are taught that is the way they are expected to "be".

 

[FrIeDGoAt]

Who hasn't done something like that? I just figured out how to pronounce "Ys" and I've certainly had game titles mixed up in the past. In this example, it seems like deadpan humor and backhanded remark comparing EA's product (CoD: Ghosts) to Ubi's games.



Not true. You're diminishing the severity of the problem. Every time a minority or woman is even slightly critical, a flood of slurs and death threats come flying in from older teens AND adults. It's sexist, it's racist and it's definitely not harmless "nerd raging." A normal person doesn't start calling a stranger a nigger or faggot because he lost in a game. I suck at online games and never resorted to this. If you resort to attacking someone's gender, sexual orientation or nationality/ethnicity/skin color, then you have serious problems that need addressing beyond getting miffed in a video game.



Can you give a comprehensive list of AAA, big budget titles with different-from-the-norm characters that did not perform well?






You do know that this article is about people like the three of you with this exclusionary mindset? A lot of people started off gaming with early consoles, handheld puzzle games, casual computer games and arcade titles like Pac-Man and DK that weren't any more complex than today's mobile games -- many women included. It's harmful and unnecessary to walk around with this mentality that artificially states "you're not a real gamer until you play these specific types of games I personally deem acceptable and hardcore enough."

Sodding_Gamer, how do you know they're doing it for attention, or more importantly, why the hell does anyone care? It's enough they're playing any game, having fun and motivated to continue playing games for whatever reason that's enough for them. A lot of guys also play only COD or similar shooters... why do you feel the need to point out when women do it as something inherently wrong or some sort of cry for attention? I think you're projecting your own insecurities about why they got into gaming.

No one suggested that the 48% of gamers who are women are playing on consoles. And frankly it doesn't matter if they're not.

I played those old games, I went from Atari to consoles to 386/486 etc. I bought the first 3DFX graphics card. I watched gaming come into what it is today. Don't talk to me about the difference in gaming, why even pretend that mobile gaming is even remotely the same? Those small games on the spectrum etc WERE gaming at the time because they were THE ONLY THING AVAILABLE. Gaming has evolved way beyond what old spectrums and mobile games have to offer and they are two completely separate things.

Farmville is not gaming.

PS, I don't care if your a woman or a man, I have women on PSN and XBlive that actually play games. I was only stating that the statistics are not correct.
I wouldn't call someone a bibliophile because they've looked at the pictures in "101 uses for a dead cat"

 

[Orayn]

Oh look a white knight.
I played those old games, I went from Atari to consoles to 386/486 etc. I bought the first 3DFX graphics card. I watched gaming come into what it is today. Don't talk to me about the difference in gaming, why even pretend that mobile gaming is even remotely the same? Those small games on the spectrum etc WERE gaming at the time because they were THE ONLY THING AVAILABLE. Gaming has evolved way beyond what old spectrums and mobile games have to offer and they are two completely separate things.

Farmville is not gaming.

Actually, the games I don't like aren't gaming. Don't be too hard on yourself, it's an easy enough mistake to make.

Spoiler

You're not entirely wrong that mobile gaming has evolved into a different entity, but your overall assessment is still bullshit. Also, calling someone a white knight probably won't end well for you.