Aisha Tyler on Race, Sexism and Video Games (Q&A)

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Aisha Tyler on Race, Sexism and Video Games (Q&A)

Aisha brings up a good point about the mistreated/marginalized (nerds, gamers) often turning around and doing the same to others. She's very optimistic in saying that the industry has improved quite a bit. I don't always see it, but I guess she has more insight and is correct in a way. I don't find her examples of blank slates and "create a character" to be valid examples of diversity in games, especially not in comparison to The Walking Dead adventure game. edit: Just found out via an OT community thread about a big Aisha AMA started a few hours; had the idea to make this thread in the morning, so pure coincidence.

In April, the Entertainment Software Association touted this figure: About 48 percent of all gamers are women.

A heartening figure perhaps, but the mainstream of the gaming industry still has a sexist problem. Not to mention a racist problem. And a homophobic problem. And an anti-transgender problem too.

Still, in a recent interview, actor and longtime gamer Aisha Tyler said the industry is learning — slowly, but surely.
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Re/code: Two years ago, you wrote a widely shared post on Facebook about the backlash you’ve received from people who don’t believe you’re a “real gamer.” In those two years, has anything changed?

Aisha Tyler: Yeah, I think so. I’ve always been playing, but the more time I spend talking about it, I think the reaction is changing. But still now, even, I’ve been tweeting a lot about Watch Dogs and people will go, “Wait a minute. You game?” But the tone and the percentage of negative responses has definitely diminished over time. There’s always going to be haters, but it’s definitely improved.

What is it specifically that those haters are reacting to? Is it the assumption that only guys play games?

Tyler: It’s kind of a very boilerplate, “Oh these girls that show up at these shows are trying to glom on to our culture. They don’t really play.” It may also be a reaction to the videogame equivalent of car girls that show up at conferences and they’re meant to lure guys in. There’s just a general idea that they hired some actress who doesn’t know what she’s talking about. It’s a knee-jerk reaction. The thing I find fascinating about it is, it’s a marginalized culture of gamers, and the associated culture of nerds, a group of people who’ve been ostracized and excluded. And now they’re really busy trying to exclude other people. It’s like, “I was hazed. And now I’m going to haze.”
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One of the big issues people talk about in games is representation, making more main characters who are women or minorities or from other under-represented groups. Do you agree that that’s important, playing as someone you look like in real life?

Tyler: I think that’s happening already, especially in games where you create your own avatar, something like Mass Effect or Fallout. Players are playing themselves, and they’ve been doing that for a long time in MMORPGs [massively multiplayer online role-playing games]. In some of the games that are campaigns, I think some of the most successful games of the past few years — something like Gears of War, where the secondary lead in the co-op mode is latino, and then a game like The Walking Dead, the lead is a black man.
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So to continue that change, is that something where game companies like Ubisoft or Telltale Games need to be taking the first step? Or does the audience need to speak up first?

Tyler: I don’t know. It’s hard because you can’t legislate creative diversity. I think it’s more that the gaming community’s more diverse, and they’re going to ask for more diverse experiences. They’re going to demand them. If you’re a game company, you want to create a singular gaming experience, and part of that is doing stuff that nobody else is doing. If you’re trying to create a game that feels different, you’re going to create a lead that feels different. It’s not going to be just another white guy.

As we go forward, people are going to want to play as those characters because they feel different. They don’t want to play the same kind of character over and over again. Some gamers always pick an avatar that looks just like them, but others want to live a different identity inside of a game.
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The thing I find fascinating about it is, it’s a marginalized culture of gamers, and the associated culture of nerds, a group of people who’ve been ostracized and excluded. And now they’re really busy trying to exclude other people. It’s like, “I was hazed. And now I’m going to haze.”
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This is actually a really interesting response.
 
That was pretty interesting. I particularly liked what she had to say about writing strong female characters. You could apply that to any group of minorities. That's why I always think its a cop out when people claim that a good black (or female, latino, gay,etc) can't be written because the writer isn't black, or gay, or any other kind of minority.
 
The thing I find fascinating about it is, it’s a marginalized culture of gamers, and the associated culture of nerds, a group of people who’ve been ostracized and excluded. And now they’re really busy trying to exclude other people. It’s like, “I was hazed. And now I’m going to haze.”
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Absolutely true.

I would extend this to the portrayal of women in games as well. To me, it really appears that they are operating on a level of, "I've never had a woman of my own, so I'll just hypersexualize and objectify them as much as possible." Every woman does not need to have giant breasts and cleavage hanging out in battle.

For every Samus we have 5-10 Harley Quinn/Felicia/female MGSV assassins.
 
She's got a very distinctive and powerful voice, and she loves games. I wonder if anyone has ever approached her to be the lead in a game.
 
WyndhamPrice said:
It's exactly how I've always felt about the reactionary, hostile nature of many geeky subcultures. They got so wrapped up into the idea of finally having their own "thing" that when some kind of "other" wants them to share they can't handle it.
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It's more about seeing actors and or actresses glom on to the culture because it is all of a sudden a very lucrative one to be involved in. Many may have misjudged Tyler by saying that she is a poser but there are still plenty out there that are and nerd culture or not posers get hated on no regardless of what group they are trying to be a part of it isn't exclusive to nerd culture.
 
oh she actually games and isn't just a pr person who "games". I am very skeptical of anyone on stage that claims they're a "gamer". but she seems really cool. haters gonna hate thou.
 
I'll admit, I was a 'hater' to a lesser degree a couple years ago... she seemed like a shill and a fake, but since then I've come to realize that is more the fault of Ubisoft's writing... I should have known all along since they can't create a cohesive narrative to save their own lives.

Even if she wasn't a gamer, she's awesome in Archer soooo... always had respect for her for that.
 
Great interview and answers. Really liked this bit:

I think it’s more that the gaming community’s more diverse, and they’re going to ask for more diverse experiences. They’re going to demand them. If you’re a game company, you want to create a singular gaming experience, and part of that is doing stuff that nobody else is doing. If you’re trying to create a game that feels different, you’re going to create a lead that feels different. It’s not going to be just another white guy.
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It's a pretty good interview. Aisha Tyler definitely seems like a very smart person. I especially like her statement regarding writing good characters.
 
Nibiru said:
It's more about seeing actors and or actresses glom on to the culture because it is all of a sudden a very lucrative one to be involved in. Many may have misjudged Tyler by saying that she is a poser but there are still plenty out there that are and nerd culture or not posers get hated on no regardless of what group they are trying to be a part of it isn't exclusive to nerd culture.
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There are people who are a mix of both (gamers, trying to make money from it) and get caught in the cross-hairs of the bitter and jaded. I've seen people shitting on Youtube gamer girls because they only play certain games like Call of Duty, Halo or Minecraft... as if it matters that they're not into some obscure jRPG or the latest indie game that's all the rage on video game message boards. That overly-critical shit about who's REALLY a gamer needs to stop.
 
PhantomOfTheKnight said:
This is actually a really interesting response.
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I don't think it's as precise as she says. It's more general: people can be dicks about stuff, and can get defensive when something that isn't normal encroaches on their space.

Most gamer "nerds" I know wouldn't have a single issue with a girl gamer.

Black Republican said:
she has a better mind and temperment than most of the dudes in the industry
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Let's not put her on a pedestal now. She said some cool stuff, I'm petty sure there are plenty of other girls and guys in the industry who have similar views.
 
Zakalwe said:
Let's not put her on a pedestal now. She said some cool stuff, I'm petty sure there are plenty of other girls and guys in the industry who have similar views.
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Considering all the generic FPS/TPS cover games we got last gen... I'd say so lol. in the general sense.

Good opinions overall though. Stuff I think most outside the bubble think and ones inside probably agree with but had not consciously addressed.
 
Complex Shadow said:
oh she actually games and isn't just a pr person who "games". I am very skeptical of anyone on stage that claims they're a "gamer". but she seems really cool. haters gonna hate thou.
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I have to admit, I doubted her too. :'(

But I just want to say it's not because she was female. I view any CEO/keynote speaker who's not affiliated with the gaming industry (i.e. works as dev etc...) with suspicion when they keep mentioning they're a video gamer (sure buddy).
 
Plinko said:
Absolutely true.

I would extend this to the portrayal of women in games as well. To me, it really appears that they are operating on a level of, "I've never had a woman of my own, so I'll just hypersexualize and objectify them as much as possible." Every woman does not need to have giant breasts and cleavage hanging out in battle.

For every Samus we have 5-10 Harley Quinn/Felicia/female MGSV assassins.
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Yea, it's true. All developers are lonely nerdy gamer virgins, so this is their outlet to get back at females.

Actually, most developers aren't the "nerdy gamers" they are more lovers of creation and developing. Most developers I know don't really play games that hardcore... they are generally too busy creating them. But that was an interesting borderline stereotyping thing to say.
 
jhmtehgamr20xx said:
Yeah but some of them will have a bit of an issue with a minority gamer, especially if they're Black or Latino. So her comment is still valid b/c it's not just specifying gender.
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"Some", yes.

Majority? No.

Play something like CoD where social interaction amounts to little more than bragging and trash talk, and it might appear that it's rife. I'd argue that most of that stuff is just thoughtless and not intended, and born of frustration for the moment rather than malice toward a particular minority, the fact it perpetuates is a issue of course (and I'm not condoning it in any way) but we're discussing intent here. Do these people really have an issue with minorities? I know I don't, and I trash talked like a moron at times in my teenage years while playing with friends (all colours and shapes, my world is a beautiful rainbow).

Play an Mmo where social interactions matter more, and the majority of people are incredibly friendly and welcoming. Every single guild I've ever been a part of has been made up of what I'd consider decent people with only a few obvious bad eggs here and there.

I don't know, call me an optimist, nothing she said felt particularly astute to me. I agree with her, I guess I just assumed that most of is felt this way, and that the intelligent people who make up the brunt of the industry have a decent amount of like minded souls amongst them, too.

I think the representation of minorities in games is much more residual and neglect than it is intended, and while that's bad it's getting better. The whole world is playing catch-up here.

Vermillion said:
I feel like the issue moreso lies with conventionally attractive girl gamers.

Like "you can't have that and be this, too."
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Again, a few bad eggs, IMO. Relatively speaking, of course.
 
Perfectly rational and well informed answers.

She's an asset to the industry, in whatever capacity she wishes to be participating in.
 
Dynopia said:
Agree with her entirely, sometimes 'gamers' can be an embarrassing lot.
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Again, it isn't "gamers", it's people.

People like to complain, they like to lash out, they like to get petty and protective and precious. For the most part, the gamers I've got to know might be prone to bouts of being human, but they're generally actually nice and accepting.

The problem is also that online is sometimes not indicative of the consensus, and snapshots can be taken, or small communities can feel like the planet. Anyway. Rambling a bit.

People.

Yeh.
 
A bunch of people asked about this subject in her GAFAMA thread, and to be honest I wasn't really expecting her to engage with the subject in that thread, so I'm glad OP posted this article. Seemed like a pretty astute reading of the problems with gaming culture as well as its improvements.
 
Zakalwe said:
"Some", yes.

Majority? No.

Play something like CoD where social interaction amounts to little more than bragging and trash talk, and it might appear that it's rife. I'd argue that most of that stuff is just thoughtless and not intended, and born of frustration for the moment rather than malice toward a particular minority, the fact it perpetuates is a issue of course (and I'm not condoning it in any way) but we're discussing intent here. Do these people really have an issue with minorities? I know I don't, and I trash talked like a moron at times in my teenage years while playing with friends (all colours and shapes, my world is a beautiful rainbow).

I think the representation of minorities in games is much more residual and neglect than it is intended, and while that's bad it's getting better. The whole world is playing catch-up here.

Again, a few bad eggs, IMO. Relatively speaking, of course.
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Every thread. There's always at least one. This dismissive attitude is really old and tired.

Entirely disagree. If you're using slurs online against another person, you know what you're doing and should take responsibility for it. You don't deserve a free pass because you were losing the game and got frustrated. Those are actually the moments when a person's true colors arise. I remembered getting my ass kicked by Koreans in StarCraft 1 and even in anger, never thought to use racist slurs against them. Thoughtless can still be racist and you give way too much leeway to disgusting behavior among gamers.


Zakalwe said:
I don't think it's as precise as she says. It's more general: people can be dicks about stuff, and can get defensive when something that isn't normal encroaches on their space.

Most gamer "nerds" I know wouldn't have a single issue with a girl gamer.

Let's not put her on a pedestal now. She said some cool stuff, I'm petty sure there are plenty of other girls and guys in the industry who have similar views.
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Zakalwe said:
Again, it isn't "gamers", it's people.
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No one is putting her on a pedestal for simply admiring and complimenting her measured and well-reasoned responses.

And no, it's gamers. If we're gamers discussing the problems with video games on a video game message board, it doesn't help a bit to talk about everything in the broadest, most general terms possible (a tactic meant to distract from issues specific with this hobby). It's OKAY to point a finger and say there are problems here. You and your friends are not personally being condemned, unless you feel guilt for past behavior. And if you feel offended that someone is saying " gamers can sure be racist/sexist/whatever," keep in mind that's trivial and unimportant in the greater scheme of what we're talking about here.
 
She is very knowledgeable and aware of trends in the gaming industry, I'm glad she has come into the videogame sphere :) Her mention of Walking Dead being a black lead with a half Asian girl as the protagonists for a very successful game is a great sign of things to come for diversity. Lots of insight to be gained, even though she doesn't have any influence over Ubisoft.
 
Zakalwe said:
Let's not put her on a pedestal now. She said some cool stuff, I'm petty sure there are plenty of other girls and guys in the industry who have similar views.
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Yeah but none of them have anywhere near the same audience. And while the way she laid it out would probably not be the basis for a tremendously successful Kickstarter campaign, I'd rather have a gamer with rational views like this leading this conversation than our apparent figurehead.
 
If you want to hear a great conversation with her (albeit not a game-related one), go listen to the episode of Jordan Jesse Go that she is on.
 
What about folks who don't want transgender and homosexual characters in there games? Do they have choice to speak and say there peace or they should just accept and go with the flow?
 
Respawn said:
What about folks who don't want transgender and homosexual characters in there games? Do they have choice to speak and say there peace or they should just accept and go with the flow?
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The world shouldn't be built around catering to the prejudices of a shrinking minority. If people have a problem with certain types of characters being in a game, they can just choose not to play it.
 
Simple responses, but all true regarding this topic. I'm actually a bit more hopeful for the future because of the large push against the status quo these days, but structural and behavioral mechanisms will most likely still try to repress and exclude other identities no matter what, as we still see in the reactions by privileged consumers and the industry's capitalistic logic and rationalization.

Kerned said:
If you want to hear a great conversation with her (albeit not a game-related one), go listen to the episode of Jordan Jesse Go that she is on.
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You got a link?
 
Zakalwe said:
Play an Mmo where social interactions matter more, and the majority of people are incredibly friendly and welcoming. Every single guild I've ever been a part of has been made up of what I'd consider decent people with only a few obvious bad eggs here and there.
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Well, if we're taking strictly mathematically, sure. But that doesn't mean there's not a very real and pervasive homophobia in the gaming community. Yes, even in MMOs. I was shocked, after having been away from the genre for years, at just how toxic chat could get. Having to hear your sexuality compared to bestiality, or hearing people laugh at and dismiss gay guilds, or comparing gay marriage to marrying a dog or inanimate object, or just outright dropping things being gay or people being a fag, yeah, that can be pretty fucking brutal to put up with. It grinds down on my soul when it happens day after fucking day in the thing that's supposed to be my escape. Not even my guilds have been safe from bullshit.

You see, while these kind of people might be a few bad eggs, the problem is that the culture permits it through ignoring it. By saying it doesn't matter, that it's just trash talk, who really cares.

This is absolutely an issue.
 
Respawn said:
What about folks who don't want transgender and homosexual characters in there games? Do they have choice to speak and say there peace or they should just accept and go with the flow?
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Said folks who are definitely not you can always just not play the game if they feel that strongly about it.
 
The thing I find fascinating about it is, it’s a marginalized culture of gamers, and the associated culture of nerds, a group of people who’ve been ostracized and excluded. And now they’re really busy trying to exclude other people. It’s like, “I was hazed. And now I’m going to haze.”
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Really accurate observation of gaming subculture.

It's similar to how so many complain about video games not being taken seriously and yet when they finally are they get defensive and lash out.

Respawn said:
What about folks who don't want transgender and homosexual characters in there games? Do they have choice to speak and say there peace or they should just accept and go with the flow?
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Why should those views be tolerated and listened to? Society should never be catering towards bigots and that's exactly why we won't listen to their awful opinions.
 
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