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[MrparisSM]

Guys this is ridiculous. And this is the state that I live in.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20041128/ts_washpost/a16443_2004nov27

Alabama voters made sure of that Nov. 2, refusing to approve a constitutional amendment to erase segregation-era wording requiring separate schools for "white and colored children" and to eliminate references to the poll taxes once imposed to disenfranchise blacks.

The vote was so close -- a margin of 1,850 votes out of 1.38 million -- that an automatic recount will take place Monday. But, with few expecting the results to change, the amendment's saga has dragged Alabama into a confrontation with its segregationist past that illuminates the sometimes uneasy race relations of its present.


The outcome resonates achingly here in this college town, where the silver-haired men and women who close their eyes and lift their arms when the organ wails at Bethel Baptist Church -- a short drive from Wallace's schoolhouse door -- don't have to strain to remember riding buses past the shiny all-white school on their way to the all-black school.

There are competing theories about the defeat of Amendment 2, the measure that would have taken "colored children" and segregated schools out of Alabama's constitution. One says latent, persistent racism was to blame; another says voters are suspicious of all constitutional amendments; and a third says it was not about race but about taxes.

Giles has said he would support taking out the passage about separate schools for "white and colored children" as long as the part about not guaranteeing a right to an education is kept.

The Tax excuse is just a Cop-out. Why wouldn't people want to pay a little extra to ensure better education for our children? Racism is still alive folks wether you want to believe it or not. It's really sad.


Edited the title in hopes of drawing in posters who would have been scared off by the original. Hope you don't mind. - Mandark

 

[Cimarron]

I've heard the old tax thing before. I'd rather pay more taxes to ensure that underpriviledge kid get better schooling so he might get a better job in the future. Better that than he stab me so he can steal my money to feed his nine kids.

 

[MetatronM]

Giles has said he would support taking out the passage about separate schools for "white and colored children" as long as the part about not guaranteeing a right to an education is kept.

WHAT?!

 

[MrparisSM]

WHAT?!

:lol scary isn't it?

 

[cvxfreak]

WHAT.

THE.

FUCK.

 

[etiolate]

The bit about poll taxes, is that to take poll tax laws out of their constitution or to erase it from the history? It's not a good idea to cover up the state's racist past.

 

[Matlock]

 

[MIMIC]

Move over Mississippi.

That's where my mom grew up (Birmingham, Alabama). She went through all the 60s Civil Rights shit (she was friends with one of the girls who died in the church bombing

)

 

[Phoenix]

Alabama and racist go together like IE and browser exploits.....

 

[kumanoki]

I can't talk, what with all the stupidness going on in my homestate of Georgia (right next door--any connections besides the obvious?)

All I can say is, man....Alabama sure has a lot of mobile homes.

 

[Mandark]

Racism doesn't shock me like it used to, but this is insane. There is just no excuse at all for keeping that amendment. Words just aren't enough.

 

[Lonestar]

while I was born in Birmingham, like parts of it, and love the University of Alabama....

There's alot of fucked up shit there.

 

[Dan]

As if I needed another reason to keep Alabama on my 'do not visit' list.

 

[Suranga3]

wow, the american south is one fucked up place.

 

[kumanoki]

As if I needed another reason to keep Alabama on my 'do not visit' list.

Aw, man....Alabama is great! Good food, beautiful countryside, nice people. Really.

It's like Georgia with lower rent.

And lower expectations.

But those Alabamians make due with what they have, for sure.

 

[FightyF]

So...how did Alabama vote during the Presidential Election?

 

[MrparisSM]

So...how did Alabama vote during the Presidential Election?

lol

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So...how did Alabama vote during the Presidential Election?

In separate lines, evidently.

 

[MIMIC]

In separate lines, evidently.

:lol

 

[XS+]

Alabama and racist go together like IE and browser exploits.....

I don't think the south is any more racist than the north.

 

[ChrisReid]

I don't think the south is any more racist than the north.

HAHAHA

This is a thread about Alabama in the year 2004 voting to retain blatant racism in their state constitution. Wake the hell up.

 

[MetatronM]

I don't think the south is any more racist than the north.

:lol

 

[XS+]

HAHAHA

This is a thread about Alabama in the year 2004 voting to retain blatant racism in their state constitution. Wake the hell up.

I suppose it's a matter of how one gauges the various degrees of racism that others perpetrate. Sure, you might not find glaring instances such as the one above, but overt racism is no more insidious and deleterious than more covert, ingrained institutional racism -- actually, the latter is worse. Dick Cheney didn't come from the south, nor did George W. Bush or any number of Republican politicians that push policy that comes at the expense of non-white Americans. Racism, hardly a provincial staple of the south, is a pandemic disease, one that strickens the citizens of New York just as much as those living in Alabama. In Alabama, at least, you know where the rednecks stand. In New York, blue bloods will shake your hand and smile in your face, while, behind closed doors, they deny your application to Columbia University because of your race.

 

[Socreges]

I suppose it's a matter of how one gauges the various degrees of racism that others perpetrate. Sure, you might not find glaring instances such as the one above, but overt racism is no more insidious and deleterious than more covert, ingrained institutional racism -- actually, the latter is worse. Dick Cheney didn't come from the south. Neither did George W. Bush or any number of Republican politicians that push policy that comes at the expense of non-white Americans. Racism, hardly a provincial staple of the south, is a pandemic disease, one that strickens the citizens of New York just as much as those living in Alabama. In Alabama, at least, you know where the rednecks stand. In New York, blue bloods will shake your hand and smile in your face, while, behind closed doors, they deny your application to Columbia University because of your race.

That sounded cute and everything, but it doesn't begin to disprove that the south is more racist than the north.

George Bush was raised in Texas, btw. Dick Cheney is just evil.

 

[XS+]

Nothing posted in this thread proves the converse.

 

[fart]

covert, ingrained institutional racism

first of all, i'd hardly say that most institutional racism is covert. some de facto forms of structural racism (glass ceiling et al - ok i'll give you the poll taxes) are covert, but a constitutional amendment decreeing segregated education is decidedly OVERT. second of all, i think the new intolerance movement (see, same-sex rights) and suppression of constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties (see, patriot act) is in exactly the same spirit as these overt forms of racism. so yes, i agree that civil rights issues are pandemic all over the US, not just the south, but i think the south is particularly egregious for having these archaic (yet oh so modern) and overt signs of it all over. it's ridiculous, and there's really no justification for it.

 

[Socreges]

Nothing posted in this thread proves the converse.

I believe the burden of proof lies with you.

 

[G4life98]

I don't think the south is any more racist than the north.

history says you are wrong.

 

[Fresh Prince]

+1 America is going down the shitter and dragging the world down too

Total: 10,343 points

 

[DarienA]

Dood you know we gotta keep the blacks down... they've been making too much progress in other places!

 

[Kintaro]

WHAT?!

WHAT?

 

[dammitmattt]

The problem with this Amendment that most people are not mentioning is that there were two separate items in this amendment. The first was to remove the segragationist language, and the second was to guarantee the right to a public education. Right or wrong, I think that a lot of people in Alabama misunderstood the second part of this Amendment and voted against it. I don't think that many people would have voted against the Amendment if it had just been about removing the segregationist language. For the record, I voted for the Amendment.

This whole issue highlights the main problem with Alabama: the Constitution is terrible and desperately needs to be replaced.

 

[Nerevar]

I suppose it's a matter of how one gauges the various degrees of racism that others perpetrate. Sure, you might not find glaring instances such as the one above, but overt racism is no more insidious and deleterious than more covert, ingrained institutional racism -- actually, the latter is worse. Dick Cheney didn't come from the south, nor did George W. Bush or any number of Republican politicians that push policy that comes at the expense of non-white Americans. Racism, hardly a provincial staple of the south, is a pandemic disease, one that strickens the citizens of New York just as much as those living in Alabama. In Alabama, at least, you know where the rednecks stand. In New York, blue bloods will shake your hand and smile in your face, while, behind closed doors, they deny your application to Columbia University because of your race.

Wow. How can I compete with a plethora of anecdotal evidence about racism?

By the way, George W. Bush was raised in Texas.





also - you have no clue what you're talking about XS+

 

[maharg]

The bit about poll taxes, is that to take poll tax laws out of their constitution or to erase it from the history? It's not a good idea to cover up the state's racist past.

You know, the federal constitution still has an amendment about the Mason-Dixon Line. And one about alcohol prohibition.

Amending a constitution in the US doesn't mean removing an entry, it means adding a contradiction.

 

[EdLuva]

That's just as bad as Cullman, AL not wanting to get rid of the interracial marriage law in 2000. I hate driving past Cullman.

 

[Azih]

Sure, you might not find glaring instances such as the one above, but overt racism is no more insidious and deleterious than more covert, ingrained institutional racism

The problem here of course is that you're putting up the obvious, glaring, overt racism of the Alabama decision (south) up against 'covert ingrained instituional racism' of the north.

Firstly you have to show how pervasive this northern racism is to show how it's equivalent to southern racism. But.. but it's covert innit? Well tough, you're going to have to come up with some backup to that theory because the amount of covert racism you have to show to make it in any way equivalent to what just happened in Alabama is HUGE. You can't hide behind the word 'covert' here.

Secondly, you are making the implicit hidden assumption that while racism in the north is covert, racism in the south is only overt and this is completely without merit. In fact it's far more reasonable to say that racism in the south is BOTH covert and overt. So not only do you have to show that the level of covert hidden northern racism (and overt northern racism )is equivalent to the obvious public southern racism you have to show it's equivalent to the obvious and the covert hidden southern racism. How you would do this is not my problem.

Thirdly you make a reference to 'blue bloods' when supporting your 'racism is equivalent' allegation. I don't think this is very fair as you're just comparing an image of how elite northern society acts to HOW THE ENTIRE STATE OF ALABAMA VOTED a month ago. You see the problem(s) here.

 

[dammitmattt]

Thirdly you make a reference to 'blue bloods' when supporting your 'racism is equivalent' allegation. I don't think this is very fair as you're just comparing an image of how elite northern society acts to HOW THE ENTIRE STATE OF ALABAMA VOTED a month ago. You see the problem(s) here.

Only half of the people that voted actually voted against it, not the "ENTIRE STATE OF ALABAMA." Keep that in mind...

 

[bishoptl]

I'm absolutely speechless.

 

[FortNinety]

first of all, i'd hardly say that most institutional racism is covert. some de facto forms of structural racism (glass ceiling et al - ok i'll give you the poll taxes) are covert, but a constitutional amendment decreeing segregated education is decidedly OVERT. second of all, i think the new intolerance movement (see, same-sex rights) and suppression of constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties (see, patriot act) is in exactly the same spirit as these overt forms of racism. so yes, i agree that civil rights issues are pandemic all over the US, not just the south, but i think the south is particularly egregious for having these archaic (yet oh so modern) and overt signs of it all over. it's ridiculous, and there's really no justification for it.

Hey you're forgetting that denying rights to a person based on the color or skin and sexual preference is different in many idiots' eyes.

 

[Azih]

Only half of the people that voted actually voted against it, not the "ENTIRE STATE OF ALABAMA." Keep that in mind...

Alright alright, what I meant was more WHAT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ALABAMA PASSED. I can see how what I said was poorly worded.


But even then, 50% is a pretty crap ratio.

 

[Phoenix]

If you are black and you've stayed in Alabama for any significant amount of time, you know how racist many portions of the state are. My wife is from Mobile, Alabama and I've experienced the ignorance and bigotry in Alabama first hand. I currently live in Atlanta, Georgia and its reasonable here. When I lived in the DC metro and when I visit California, the people are night and day different than some of the folks I deal with in Alabama and Georgia.

I'm a native of New Orleans, LA and at one point it used to be somewhat bad there - though still better than some of the stupidity I have to deal with here in Atlanta.

 

[Phoenix]

Nothing posted in this thread proves the converse.

Dude there was huge commotion in the Mobile Register about the school system refusing to allow an interracial high school couple admission to their senior prom! Alabama is one of those states (and Mississippi running close second) where racism is both blatant, obvious, and readily available without even looking much.

 

[oxrock]

Honestly seed of racism can be seen anywhere one so happens to glance. It's everywhere perhaps more potent in certain areas but there none the less. I live in New York and I could walk into just about any bar and tell "nigger" jokes and not get any negative feedback. Racism may be one of the more "hush hush" issues but it's still prevalent everywhere.

 

[Drozmight]

The more I inform myself, the more fearful I become. I need to more to antartica.

 

[UltimateMarioMan]

I say we herd all the bigots into a state no one cares about. Say Georgia. And then nuke it.

 

[KingGondo]

Honestly seed of racism can be seen anywhere one so happens to glance.

We're not talking about seeds of racism--this is an intitutional amendment, out in the open for everyone to see.

 

[Phoenix]

I say we herd all the bigots into a state no one cares about. Say Georgia. And then nuke it.

Therre are enough of them here - please don't send anymore thanks!

 

[Azih]

Hey my cousins live in Georgia. why not nuke Alabama/Mississipi?

Edit: :lol at Phoenix not minding getting nuked as long as he doesn't have to get nuked with a buncha bigots.

 

[StoOgE]

The more I inform myself, the more fearful I become. I need to more to antartica.

you dont think Penguins are racists? You ever seen a purple penguin? Two words: Penguin cleansing.

 

[Azih]

Man Penguins are real inclusive, they don't even mind gay penguins living among them.