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Alabama keeps racial segregation in its state constitution. "WTF!?" of the year.
- Thread starter MrparisSM
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As another person from Alabama, I find it hard to grasp how this bill failed as well. But really there are two things that exist in it that hit a serious button in this region:
1. Racism. When you're the battle ground for the civil rights movement, everything takes a pretty dark slant when race is brought up. Most people want to totally forget and move on, others want to hold on with every ounce of their being on both sides (no one's getting off easy on this one). Do I think it might have had something to do with it? Sure. Was it enough for me to point an accusing finger at my fellow rednecks and "pooh pooh"? I don't know. I mean it's there, but the issues are entirely too complicated to even get into on a message board. It's definitely an issue that will hang over our heads for a long time and has some seriously deep cuts that may never heal.
2. Taxes. Alabama has a serious distrust of its politicians, period. And they deserve every ounce of malice they get! You can say all the sweet things you want about a document but the second "taxes" are brought up in any way, shape or form in this state, people run for cover. It's just the way things are. Pork is a way of life and lining the pockets of your constituents has been the order of the day for pretty much ever. We're dealing with a system that attacks education first, the poor second, and the industries never. Most of the public is so sick of it they never want to see another tax hike again. A lot of people want to down play it, but it is an issue here. Enough to make 50% of the population vote against it? Not a chance. But add it with latent racism and distrust of the government in general? It just might do it.
Add to that the fact that Alabama's constitution is one of the most broken documents in the known universe (742 Amendments and counting... http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeOfAlabama/Constitution/1901/Constitution1901_toc.htm), and it's a real quagmire where anyone who half pays attention to the system can see where saying "We're removing racism form the constitution..." can quickly be extruded to "And screwing you over while we're at it!" Even the writer of the bill said he should reword it so no question about it's merit would be brought up! That's Alabama politics for ya.
I'm not trying to apologize at all for this mess, just trying to add some context. Alabama politics is something anyone in their right mind should avoid at all costs! On the plus side, it is a nice microcosm for the US in general. I mean really it seems like you guys say "Oh my god! They're stealing our money and subverting our children's future!" Here we go "Eh, what's new?"
I'm not happy about any of it one bit...
Gah! Here's praying for no misspelled words.
1. Racism. When you're the battle ground for the civil rights movement, everything takes a pretty dark slant when race is brought up. Most people want to totally forget and move on, others want to hold on with every ounce of their being on both sides (no one's getting off easy on this one). Do I think it might have had something to do with it? Sure. Was it enough for me to point an accusing finger at my fellow rednecks and "pooh pooh"? I don't know. I mean it's there, but the issues are entirely too complicated to even get into on a message board. It's definitely an issue that will hang over our heads for a long time and has some seriously deep cuts that may never heal.
2. Taxes. Alabama has a serious distrust of its politicians, period. And they deserve every ounce of malice they get! You can say all the sweet things you want about a document but the second "taxes" are brought up in any way, shape or form in this state, people run for cover. It's just the way things are. Pork is a way of life and lining the pockets of your constituents has been the order of the day for pretty much ever. We're dealing with a system that attacks education first, the poor second, and the industries never. Most of the public is so sick of it they never want to see another tax hike again. A lot of people want to down play it, but it is an issue here. Enough to make 50% of the population vote against it? Not a chance. But add it with latent racism and distrust of the government in general? It just might do it.
Add to that the fact that Alabama's constitution is one of the most broken documents in the known universe (742 Amendments and counting... http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeOfAlabama/Constitution/1901/Constitution1901_toc.htm), and it's a real quagmire where anyone who half pays attention to the system can see where saying "We're removing racism form the constitution..." can quickly be extruded to "And screwing you over while we're at it!" Even the writer of the bill said he should reword it so no question about it's merit would be brought up! That's Alabama politics for ya.
I'm not trying to apologize at all for this mess, just trying to add some context. Alabama politics is something anyone in their right mind should avoid at all costs! On the plus side, it is a nice microcosm for the US in general. I mean really it seems like you guys say "Oh my god! They're stealing our money and subverting our children's future!" Here we go "Eh, what's new?"
I'm not happy about any of it one bit...
Gah! Here's praying for no misspelled words.
dammitmattt
Banned
Finally, an informed opinion about this debacle from Lmo911. It is not as cut and dried as the people chanting "Nuke Alabama" would like to believe. Like I said earlier, if the Amendment was purely to remove segragationist language from the Constitution, it would have easily passed, but the morons in charge here decided to throw in another portion to muck things up, in the process providing the worst PR for the state in a long time.
Phoenix said:
While that may be damaging to the sensibilities of a couple that cared to attend a prom hosted by bigots, it still does nothing to shore up the argument that the south is more racist than the north. That an instance is overt does not make it any more crippling than the covert racism that occurs both in the north and south. Redlining, the deliberate refusal to finance the upward mobility of credit-worthy minorities, is prevalent in the north; in the south, home ownership amongst blacks dwarfs that of their northern brethren. Fleet bank, a northern institution, recently settled a class action suit that charged them with discriminating against African-Americans looking to finance automobiles. I am not disputing that racism is of a grade more perceptible in the south. I am, however, arguing that the more insidious brand of racism visited upon minorities in this country -- the covert kind -- predominates in the north.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
While popular opinion would have you believe that the South is more racist, nothing prevents internationally born citizens from giving me the evil eye trying to catch a taxi in New York or a hippie bum from calling my girl a 'nigger lover' in LA. A bum. I couldn't believe it. But, what are ya gonna do?
People are idiots, no matter the location, no matter the color. I think I'll move the the Pacific Northwest, where all the people smile and say hello. Then I remember Idaho is in the Pacific Northwest. So, I'll just stay here in Philly, where for the most part, we just hate Cowboy's fans. But I take that as God's will; they deserve it. ;p
People are idiots, no matter the location, no matter the color. I think I'll move the the Pacific Northwest, where all the people smile and say hello. Then I remember Idaho is in the Pacific Northwest. So, I'll just stay here in Philly, where for the most part, we just hate Cowboy's fans. But I take that as God's will; they deserve it. ;p
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Deg said:
Didn't make me feel better about being in California and having my gf called a nigger lover by some hippie homeless guy. Or less scared to go camping in Idaho. In the south, to me, at least there's a refuge on the 'other side of the tracks'. I can always call up Lil Jon. In Idaho, I'm fucked.
I'm just making my point on perspective. I spent 4 years in Tallahassee, FL, with one or two minor incidents. I've spent 3 weeks tops, in LA with some disturbing incidents. And damn the way most taxi drivers look down on me in any state, but particularly in New York and Philly.
Phoenix
Member
XS+ said:
No, not quite. The 'covert' kinds of racism exist down here as well. Bellsouth, Texaco and CocaCola settled class action lawsuits. I'm not sure what gives you the impression that it predominates in the north.
I'll also point out that here in good old Atlanta, GA - a lawsuit was settled against some builders a coulpe of years ago because the builders were constructing shoddy homes in luxury black neighborhoords. In fact they were transporting materials that they would not use on homes in the "white" areas of the city to those black luxury homes. So its here as well.
mmlemay said:
You must have missed the part in the article where they were handing out mini confederate flags at the voting booths for this amendment! I'm sorry, say what you will. I live here and experience it first hand. Just like republican is ingrained in the culture here, so is the racism. Which is sad to witness this blatently in the year 2004.
How is the media in the States reporting this?
Is there a lot of concern, or perhaps outrage, at this situation?
I totally understand that issue is more complicated than simply racists vs. non-racists...but I'm amazed at how bueraucracy (sp?) can prevent the progress of society in such a manner. We're expecting revolutions overnight, in countries like Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan (and then claiming that democracy will solve thier problems overnight), when it seems like it's not working out here. I'm not making a case against democracy...I just think that it's flaws are starting to show here. Freedom and progress...terms that I consider synonymous with democracy, haven't been strong qualities of the US during the last half decade.
Make that 4/10ths of a decade. *ZING!*
Is there a lot of concern, or perhaps outrage, at this situation?
I totally understand that issue is more complicated than simply racists vs. non-racists...but I'm amazed at how bueraucracy (sp?) can prevent the progress of society in such a manner. We're expecting revolutions overnight, in countries like Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan (and then claiming that democracy will solve thier problems overnight), when it seems like it's not working out here. I'm not making a case against democracy...I just think that it's flaws are starting to show here. Freedom and progress...terms that I consider synonymous with democracy, haven't been strong qualities of the US during the last half decade.
Make that 4/10ths of a decade. *ZING!*
Phoenix
Member
Fight for Freeform said:
There are many many people in the country who don't realize nor do they accept that there is actually a problem in the US. They look at a few public and successful people and assume the best, and that anyone who isn't like that is just sitting on their ass. Don't ask - I've had that debate one time to many at work
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
XS+ said:
The north is incerdibly racist look at how their cities are designed, Detroit and Chicago are shining examples of how the races have totally segregated themselves. The difference it that
there is more upward mobility for blacks in Northern states. And the way I see it I don't care what you say or think about me as long as I can get a steady paycheck and the opportunity to advance like the next guy.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
kumanoki said:
Well in that thread they are funny to me. I find it humorous that often times I am approached by white people and they mention that I look like some black celebrity that I look nothing like. I can bet you dollars to donughts that if you were take that same comment and apply it in the black community you would get laughed out of town. I've never been described by anyone that I've dated as a guy who looks like Denzel or Cuba or any number of black celebrites who are on tv at the moment. Now then I have been told I look like SheaShea's cousin or Uncle Ron's other son or like Gipp down the street but never a celebrity.
I don't see it in a mean light just a humorous light. There is no malice involved.
dammitmattt
Banned
MrparisSM said:
I didn't say that there wasn't racism here. It is here, and it is everywhere. I'm not denying that. I was simply stating that this amendment failed mainly because there was a lot of confusion surrounding the second part of it.
MrparisSM said:
Many would argue -- myself included -- that conservatism (Republican politics) and racism are intertwined. At its core, conservatism is an ideology of social repression -- of the poor, minorities, women, Muslims, and homosexuals. The Republican party will never see support amongst the black community as a plurality. It will never happen. Sadly, thanks to Bush's "victory" last November, the political terrain has shifted, with conservatives now emboldened to operate with impunity. A war on culture has replaced the cold war, a great struggle now brewing between the forces of the right and left, the latter brutally outnumbered by the former. You cannot be a good man AND a Republican.
brooklyngooner
Member
Nerevar said:
Is this facetious?
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